00:00:11 <int-e> Hmm, unrelated, the znc folks have a wiki that also ha(s|d) a spam problem... they're using people for account creation: "To create new wiki account, please join us on #znc at freenode and ask admins to create a wiki account for you. You can say thanks to spambots for this inconvenience."
00:02:21 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: see https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50813&oldid=50810 for context.
00:04:49 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, that captcha needs work though because it's just displaying '<code>9482052842>\#+:#*9-#\_$.@</code>'
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00:34:04 <fizzie> I think I'll just remove the tags.
00:34:34 <fizzie> The <a href="...">s in the CAPTCHA questions/answers worked just fine, but maybe it's got a whitelist of tags or something.
00:35:01 <fizzie> There's a related problem in that it seems likely to line-wrap at the '-' as well.
00:36:18 <fizzie> I removed the <code>s.
00:37:59 <int-e> true, but without giving context.
00:46:10 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, i don't know what i expected but i asked in #znc if i could turn off password authentication and they just asked me why i was doing anything so stupid, obviously znc is the perfect client and therefore anything it doesn't do is platonically incorrect
00:48:14 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: they're assuming that you want to use it as a bouncer (to connect from remotely), rather something that only listens on 127.0.0.1 to be used by a local program.
00:48:27 <HackEgo> zerg//We'll try to think of an entry here, but we don't want to rush it.
00:48:30 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: well, I'm assuming, etc.
00:48:48 <Phantom_Hoover> but i said at the start 'i have good reasons for this, i'm not crazy'!
00:51:26 <int-e> now if I actually knew Befunge I could sneak a PASS command in after 'vp11++2*93g11P0g11"USER fungot * * :fungot-0.1"<' in the fungot.b98 file...
00:51:26 <fungot> int-e: or the execution of the gc with the mutator.
00:52:08 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean if you're going to put a PASS command in then you might as well fix the PONG issue instead
00:52:33 <Phantom_Hoover> it's the classic instance of a solution becoming a bigger pain than the original problem
00:52:38 <int-e> well, that's a bit harder because the PONG has to copy a string from the PING, while the PASS can be completely static.
00:56:09 <int-e> so... a broken IRC server, an opinionated IRC bouncer... lots of fun.
01:01:24 <int-e> (I think this idea of expecting the PONG reply first is broken, because TCP is asynchronous. But you can make the excuse that the PING request is included in the initial ACK package and therefore the client should see it the moment the connection is established... sigh. The IRC client protocol RFC says the PONG reply should be sent "as soon as possible", which I would read as allowing for some...
01:01:30 <int-e> ...commands to already be in the pipeline.)
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01:04:03 <fizzie> int-e: You don't have to copy anything from the input to provide a PONG.
01:04:09 <fizzie> The PONG reply parameter is not a copy of the input.
01:04:45 <fizzie> "The <server> parameter is the name of the entity who has responded to PING message and generated this message."
01:05:49 <fizzie> As a matter of fact, fungot has a fixed reply of "PONG :fungot" even if you change the nickname in the load file, and I don't think that has ever caused any problems.
01:05:49 <fungot> fizzie: i've never thing that thingie before it glows! note exclamation point. i'm a bit short on humor but am strong at siring." alan
01:06:01 <int-e> IME the reply to PING :fooo has to be PONG :fooo
01:06:19 <fizzie> If so, then that's just nonsense.
01:07:15 <int-e> (though it will depend on the server side, obviously)
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01:15:23 <Phantom_Hoover> RAW >>> :nova.esper.net 513 fungot :To connect type /QUOTE PONG FFFFFFFF175F71C6 <<<
01:15:24 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: shortest i've ever seen spam ( of the people whose consciousness continued through the path that isn't a list. can you post an example
01:17:00 <fizzie> I guess they think a PING message is an echo request.
01:18:17 <int-e> okay, so they *do* check the PONG response string.
01:19:32 <int-e> received: PING :4C517724; trying to reply PONG :1 results in :nova.esper.net 513 qwerty :To connect type /QUOTE PONG 4C517724, and PONG :4C517724 works.
01:21:05 <fizzie> Looks like everybody just makes it reply with a copy of the PING message parameters.
01:21:12 <fizzie> Even though I think that's unambiguously wrong.
01:21:44 <Phantom_Hoover> so is NOTICE pinging everyone in the channel but that's a thing too
01:24:44 <fizzie> Looks like IRC servers respond to client PINGs that way as well. Sad.
01:25:12 <int-e> I think the single parameter PING/PONG case is fairly clear, if you receive PING foo.bar.baz then you're supposed to reply to foo.bar.baz, which means you need to use PONG foo.bar.baz, as I read it... the abuse is that servers use strings that are not actually server names.
01:25:31 <fizzie> I don't think you're supposed to reply that.
01:26:01 <fizzie> The spec says "the name of the entity who has responded to PING message and generated this message".
01:26:10 <fizzie> That's definitely not the server that sent the *ping*.
01:28:29 <fizzie> (It's a bit of a shame the only example is very server-to-server-oriented.)
01:30:57 <int-e> hmm, okay, so nobody's implementing the specification correctly.
01:31:15 <fizzie> That seems to be the case.
01:31:28 <int-e> (it really does not help though that the specification uses a server-server connection as an example; who cares about that?)
01:41:13 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't think anyone anywhere does it right, with the possible exception of this one university homework assignment, which seemed to imply the students were supposed to do it right.
01:41:17 <fizzie> I should probably just make fungot do it wrong the de-facto right way, but that feels demotivating.
01:41:17 <fungot> fizzie: i have a lot of work. however, i can type pretty much anything with it,
01:45:58 <int-e> oh there've been fights over this 18 years ago. http://web.irc.org/mla/ircd-users/1999/msg00098.html
01:47:55 <int-e> (which of course is about the server's behavior)
01:48:53 <int-e> And to make things even more confusing, the "right" reply to PING foo.bar.baz fungot appears to be PONG fungot foo.bar.baz
01:48:53 <fungot> int-e: and very possible. running without a monitor. there's a fine line
02:25:52 <\oren\> argh why can't I get talkd to work
02:26:28 <\oren\> I have to use irc instead even though we're logged into the same server
02:38:18 <boily> Test Driven Deployment: you test after deployment to check that everything works. The most reliable way to find bugs!
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02:40:28 <HackEgo> tetris//Tetris is where Soviet Russia was invented. Taneb was not present although Triangle and Robert were.
02:40:41 <HackEgo> brainf**k//There is no such thing as brainf**k. You may be thinking of brainfuck.
02:40:50 <HackEgo> recursion//You might expect a reference to recursion here, but to make it interesting you'll actuallSTACK OVERFLOW
02:41:03 <HackEgo> phnglui//This wisdom existed only to test a command, but then it was deleted.
02:41:27 <HackEgo> second wisdom//The second wisdom is that wisdom can never be complete or consistent.
02:41:57 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? it started with, like, an ø?
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02:47:35 <boily> Tetris is one hell of a drug. BF is integral to a healthy breakfast. Recursivity is turtlish. I'a i'a Cthulhu Fungot. Wisdom is the road to Enlightenment. Øøøøøøøøø ♪
02:49:59 <HackEgo> octarine//Octarine is a black variety of peach, from which the color is named.
02:50:38 <boily> my family hates peach yoghurt and I don't know why.
02:50:45 <HackEgo> gnimmargorp//"Gnimmargorp" er algeng stafsetningarvilla af "grimmargorp".
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04:24:05 <\oren\> how is your idea going
05:03:27 -!- ais523 has joined.
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05:35:33 <\oren\> apparently fortran 90 is all the rage with physicists
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05:39:25 <pikhq> I don't think I'm quite a furry.
05:40:06 <\oren\> I aint no furry just becasue I have a moustache
05:41:38 <Perenelle> That feel when you have brain cancer stemming from your retinal blastoma in your left eye
05:51:11 <\oren\> yikes, hope you've got free helthcare
05:52:35 <Perenelle> I'm a physician I have to pay up front
05:53:07 <Perenelle> I use Washington state medical but I different sub branch the premiums are good the coverage covers cancer
06:29:57 <zzo38> I don't even know what is the percentage of such thing, such as, what percentage of everyone in here is a furry, what percentage is a programmer, and what percentage is someone with a moustache, and then also the combination the percentage too. Possibly it is not quite known and may not ever be known, but the assumption to be programmer is probably valid; everyone or nearly everyone on here probably can computer programming at least.
06:32:32 <zzo38> Is there a such thing as "name table texture" in OpenGL?
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10:06:27 <HackEgo> A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees.
10:08:13 <oerjan> `slwd cow//s,[.], Celsius.,
10:08:17 <HackEgo> cow//A cow is an animal best served at minus zero degrees Celsius.
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10:23:23 <oerjan> `learn Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
10:23:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'something': Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
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10:26:45 <shachaf> "Lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy Jane, she wants a drink of water so she waits and waits and waits and waits and waits for it to rain."
10:26:54 <shachaf> too lazy to add proper slashes to that one
10:26:55 <oerjan> `learn I SIGNIFICAT NVMERVM VNVM
10:26:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'i': I SIGNIFICAT NVMERVM VNVM
10:32:04 <oerjan> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> but i said at the start 'i have good reasons for this, i'm not crazy'!
10:32:06 <HackEgo> 1307) <Phantom_Hoover> but i said at the start 'i have good reasons for this, i'm not crazy'!
10:44:31 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access -: No such file or directory \ bin/widsom
10:44:36 <HackEgo> lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 6 Oct 28 18:37 bin/widsom -> wisdom
10:44:59 <HackEgo> 8635:2016-06-28 <izaber̈a> ` ln -s wisdom bin/widsom
10:48:10 <int-e> it's a perfectly fine directory.
10:48:38 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
10:49:14 <oerjan> i'm guessing it's /tmp so that programs don't spew configuration file crap into the actual useful directory.
10:49:51 <oerjan> or perhaps .bashrc files and the like
10:50:52 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `poweroff: not found
10:50:54 <fizzie> Every command is executed in a fresh boot anyway, so even if it did work, it'd be a bit pointless.
10:51:21 <lezsakdomi> Then umlbox stands for a VIRTUAL box :)
10:51:58 <int-e> I also suspect the whole setup predates the poweroff command.
10:52:12 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ping: not found
10:52:14 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ping: not found
10:52:24 <oerjan> lezsakdomi: wrong syntax
10:52:31 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ls: not found
10:52:34 <int-e> But maybe I just discovered it very late.
10:52:38 <oerjan> you need the space after ``
10:53:13 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: busybox: command not found
10:53:24 <fizzie> oerjan: You looked up `pong.
10:53:56 <HackEgo> ping is /hackenv/bin/ping \ ping is /bin/ping
10:54:09 <lezsakdomi> What is the difference between ` and `` ?
10:54:13 <oerjan> `` /bin/ping google.com -c 10
10:54:14 <HackEgo> ping: unknown host google.com
10:54:22 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
10:54:44 <oerjan> lezsakdomi: `command gives the entire rest of the line to command as a _single_ argument
10:54:44 <int-e> lezsakdomi: ` is built in; `` invokes that script
10:55:15 <HackEgo> cat: ``: No such file or directory
10:55:27 <HackEgo> cat: ?: No such file or directory
10:55:40 <fizzie> You need to be looking in bin/.
10:55:44 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1?
10:55:54 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F
10:56:02 <fizzie> And there is actually a bin/``, but you'd invoke that as ```.
10:56:06 <int-e> hey it does URL encoding :)
10:56:22 <fizzie> I can never remember what ``` does differently, something involving locales.
10:56:36 <HackEgo> cat: bin/bin: No such file or directory
10:56:41 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ export LANG=C; exec bash -O extglob -c "$@" | rnooodl
10:56:45 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
10:57:04 <HackEgo> perl -pe 's/([Nn])ooodl/"$1@{[o x(3+rand 7)]}dl"/ge'
10:57:16 <HackEgo> real: 0m1.083s, user: 0m0.000s, sys: 0m0.000s
10:57:20 <HackEgo> \ real0m1.023s \ user0m0.000s \ sys0m0.000s
10:58:14 <lezsakdomi> Aaand is umlbox easy to use and secure?
10:58:35 <fizzie> "Not really" and "who knows", I suspect.
10:58:41 <int-e> given that docker is impossible to secure?
11:00:53 <oerjan> afaik no one's broken _out_ of HackEgo's sandbox yet, but i'm not sure anyone's been seriously trying.
11:01:00 <int-e> of course nowadays even the-octopus-that-is-replacing-init-also-known-as-systemd is insecure.
11:01:07 <oerjan> although there have been some nasty bugs.
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11:02:21 <int-e> Okay, my prejudice was justified: docker had a severe vulnerability just this month: https://threatpost.com/docker-patches-container-escape-vulnerability/123161/
11:04:18 <oerjan> hm how would you break into HackEgo? i think going through the wiki might be simplest :P
11:04:28 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
11:04:29 <oerjan> (it's on the same server)
11:04:37 <HackEgo> warning: bad ps syntax, perhaps a bogus '-'? \ See http://gitorious.org/procps/procps/blobs/master/Documentation/FAQ \ USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND \ 0 1 0.0 0.1 1012 272 ? S 11:04 0:00 /init \ 0 2 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S 11:04 0:00 [kthreadd] \ 0
11:05:09 <lezsakdomi> Ok, I'm going to check that :) (how to break in)
11:05:40 <oerjan> (that would require actually breaking into mediawiki, but it's so huge it has to be vulnerable)
11:06:26 <lezsakdomi> So they run on the same server. Ooookaaay....
11:07:04 <oerjan> i shouldn't be encouraging this. HackEgo is meant to be played with, the wiki isn't...
11:07:42 <oerjan> although fizzie claims to do backups.
11:07:48 <int-e> and even for HackEgo, keep it playful.
11:08:06 <int-e> I seriously hope *somebody* is keeping backups.
11:08:12 <int-e> given CaC's track record
11:08:29 <int-e> (I've lost two VMs now)
11:08:31 <lezsakdomi> Of course, i wont broke anything, just break in or out :)
11:09:59 <fizzie> oerjan: I do do weekly backups.
11:10:18 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
11:10:19 <fizzie> oerjan: I believe there's a few people periodically downloading the public archive as well, though that only has articles, not accounts.
11:10:27 <int-e> HackEgo is a multibot... :P
11:10:38 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
11:10:48 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: source: not found
11:11:30 <HackEgo> hackego:HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico! \ Binary file reflection matches \ wisdome:The Wisdome is the place where all of HackBot's
11:11:44 <HackEgo> 2/2:l of HackBot's wisdom is stored and forced to fight to the death for the freedom of being printed out when you type `wisdom. Strictly speaking, it should be called the "Wissphere".
11:11:48 <fizzie> https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
11:12:11 <fizzie> Making a home instance for testing was a little bit fiddly, I think.
11:13:20 <HackEgo> Alice doesn't want to go among mad people.
11:13:28 <oerjan> `learn Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
11:13:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'source': Sources for HackEgo can be found at https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/hackbot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/multibot + https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
11:13:56 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
11:14:11 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
11:14:26 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl \ echo hi \ exec \ #!/bin/sh \ CMD=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f1` \ ARG=`echo "$1" | cut -d' ' -f2-` \ exec ibin/$CMD "$ARG"#!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooooooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed
11:15:12 <int-e> that didn't do what you wanted, I think
11:15:19 <int-e> `` echo /hackenv/bin/?
11:15:20 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/` /hackenv/bin/̊ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/! /hackenv/bin/? /hackenv/bin/¿ /hackenv/bin/' /hackenv/bin/" /hackenv/bin/( /hackenv/bin/@ /hackenv/bin/* /hackenv/bin/؟ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/1 /hackenv/bin/2 /hackenv/bin/5 /hackenv/bin/f /hackenv/bin/h /hackenv/bin/n /hackenv/bin/w
11:15:37 <fizzie> Yeah, it's all one-character commands.
11:15:40 <int-e> `` echo $(which ?)
11:15:41 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/` /hackenv/bin/̊ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/! /hackenv/bin/? /hackenv/bin/¿ /hackenv/bin/' /hackenv/bin/" /hackenv/bin/( /hackenv/bin/@ /hackenv/bin/* /hackenv/bin/؟ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/ /hackenv/bin/1 /hackenv/bin/2 /hackenv/bin/5 /hackenv/bin/f /hackenv/bin/h /hackenv/bin/n /hackenv/bin/w
11:15:42 <lezsakdomi> `` cat $(which ?) | nc termbin.com 9999
11:15:43 <HackEgo> termbin.com: forward host lookup failed: Host name lookup failure : No such file or directory
11:16:13 <oerjan> the ? doesn't expanded in bin/
11:16:45 <oerjan> although it's accidental that there's no single-char files in the top directory
11:16:46 <int-e> `` cat "$(which ?)"
11:16:46 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed "s/noo\+dl/nooodl/;s/ *$//") \ topic1=$(echo "$topic" | sed "s/s$//") \ cd wisdom \ if [ \( "_$topic1"_ = "_ngevd"_ \) -a \( -e ngevd \) ]; \ then cat /dev/urandom; \ elif [ -e "$topic" ]; \ then cat "$topic"; \ elif [ -e "$topic1" ]; \ then cat "$topic1"; \ else echo "$1?
11:17:03 <lezsakdomi> `` cat $(which ?) | nc 5.39.93.71 9999
11:17:04 <HackEgo> (UNKNOWN) [5.39.93.71] 9999 (?) : Network is unreachable
11:17:05 <int-e> oerjan: I think *that*'s the intended command.
11:17:14 <int-e> `` echo Hi | paste
11:17:17 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.14368
11:17:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.21704
11:17:40 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: HI: not found
11:17:43 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: Hi: not found
11:17:57 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/%3F
11:18:06 <int-e> but you could just browse http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/
11:18:08 <oerjan> ^ more efficient, points to the actual file
11:18:15 <int-e> oerjan: I already did that, it was lost.
11:18:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.24778
11:18:56 <oerjan> int-e: no, you used | paste, which doesn't do that
11:19:05 <int-e> oerjan: much earlier
11:19:28 <int-e> oerjan: 24 minutes ago
11:19:32 <HackEgo> âELF............>.....|$@.....@.......¨..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À............................@......@............................................@.......@.....Ä......Ä........ ............È......Èa.....Èa.....ø.......3........ ...........ð......ða.....ða..... ....... ................
11:19:34 <oerjan> lezsakdomi: it's the part you can change
11:20:00 <sdhand> `` cat /dev/urandom | paste
11:20:06 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/paste: line 12: 300 File size limit exceededcat -- "${1--}" > $HACKENV/paste/paste."$PASTENUM" \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.311
11:20:26 <oerjan> lezsakdomi: the directory /hackenv and most of its subdirectories is kept in a Mercury repository
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12:38:53 <Taneb> Is there any esolang whose name is the empty string?
12:41:04 <Taneb> And how much would the wiki admins be annoyed if I try to make one
12:44:41 <shachaf> What about an esolang where properly saying its name involves deleting your entire line of IRC?
12:56:42 <int-e> Taneb: http://esolangs.org/wiki//// comes close in spirit, I think
12:59:01 <fizzie> We had to set a nginx configuration flag to make /// work.
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13:27:14 <HackEgo> wlcom//Hi! This is a chat about unusual programming tools. For additional info, visit our wiki: <http://bit.ly/C4TUY>. (For unusual things of a contrasting sort, try http://bit.ly/19k9nf8.)
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14:28:25 <HackEgo> kiices genont cenchos rédenti kudent réguli edige artaux oooccissoife pigon paux jana precípulemenl fungen fovit saising peignare cles reprîme erungenoy delli escer gst passervencé appéens
14:28:50 <wob_jonas> whoa... most of those don't even look plausible
14:29:06 <wob_jonas> why does it even try to put a í into a french word?
14:29:12 <boily> unless I'm deeply mistaken, none of them are real French words.
14:30:39 <wob_jonas> cles looks like it tries to be clés without the accent, and I Admit some of them look plausible: paux pigon reprîme
14:31:56 <HackEgo> trygges cividin läppe odlinkom kalen bel kapegordbehov sven öppning tuvandet rängare kavesseringar hävda lopporn ampuler hakan vans släcklades likatterusta psykompe flarnastling viskrus blottning karna häck
14:32:00 <HackEgo> sprach wächeiterzuserlan itcriphen maryngigenburt feileolon fach nideal capcs blöckelmitt einprob sprodustand cichtigt hemaschingenerfreuzbehalti ergester rillinsthandwighre quellen glau gementingungskom sutop moldfragebes ploteilbabytes schäftessneul allokalkbreichtve eberung dorgungs
14:32:21 <HackEgo> littigm ree malaster minte incorn lephalt prem aranu prov bilia hed bonio qing swansvillo invel fittlif ccmr opulcalateriani kale baren ret giln hypoli nomogl bicle
14:32:51 <wob_jonas> of the swedish, "sven" sounds good enough
14:33:54 <wob_jonas> ah look, frmo the French ones, "paux" turns out to be a real word, though rare
14:35:21 <wob_jonas> of the german, "sprach" is a real word
14:36:31 <wob_jonas> "Fach' is real too, apparently, but words didn't capitalize it
14:37:29 <myname> there is some bullshit in, though
14:37:41 <myname> cichtigt does not make any sense at all
14:37:47 <wob_jonas> the English one is strange. "kale" is a rela word, and "incorn" and "malaster" look plausible
14:37:55 <wob_jonas> but the rest doesn't look like english
14:38:02 <myname> or rillinstahandwidhre
14:38:12 <HackEgo> cerper macroopborne ekommediandossecer smensch prim howsky ganumediaslive subslate nilita travilh gareen home exid strasht had cetone bivilliny aneoa sulate zavar writate acyclou yand petpge tchnic
14:38:35 <wob_jonas> does it even care about what language we ask for?
14:39:07 <wob_jonas> "home" and "had" are real, "howsky" and "subslate" look reasonable
14:39:53 <wob_jonas> "subslate, sulate, cetone" sounds like he's trying to invent chemistry stuff
14:40:22 <myname> it reminds me of the noteslate
14:41:24 <wob_jonas> Guiston Degraîme is nice by the way
14:42:01 <HackEgo> Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.
14:42:08 <HackEgo> Word (Microsoft Word) was a text-editor for animated texts but not anymore.
14:42:20 <HackEgo> The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
14:43:02 <fizzie> Some of the Swedish was right. At least öppning, hakan.
14:43:06 <HackEgo> paintauti hyötäkäisi lujaansakunnisevista bortomammille kiinsä valaajentasi remukavalla tuoluvillänsä tunnisimpinaampaasta syvenyvisimaan
14:43:27 <fizzie> Well, that wasn't a super-successful run.
14:43:31 <wob_jonas> "<oerjan> [...] i am starting to think the problem is that american naming is so crazy you cannot make a fake british-looking name that isn't a real american one hth" hehe
14:43:33 <fizzie> `` words --finnish 10 # one more time
14:43:34 <HackEgo> palvamme kuluiminen komaltanissäättämäksee yhdyttämmiksi läheillanistä keroukkaisi varsaan sellensä haisin tyrmäämäkseen
14:44:10 <wob_jonas> oerjan: just prefix it with "Sir ", then it won't look American
14:44:11 <fizzie> I guess varsaan, tyrmäämäkseen are okay.
14:45:19 <boily> `learn Chicken have capital words. boily leaves them.
14:45:22 <HackEgo> Relearned 'chicken': Chicken have capital words. boily leaves them.
14:45:22 <fizzie> Oh, most of them look plausibly Finnish, style-wise, except those that fail the vowel harmony rules.
14:45:47 <wob_jonas> dunno, "yhd" at the start of the word pushes it for me
14:46:01 <fizzie> yhdessä = together, yhdistää = connect, and so on.
14:46:15 <wob_jonas> how do you pronounce the "hd" in that?
14:47:20 <fizzie> It's also an example of consonant gradation, I guess. yhteen -> yhdessä.
14:49:06 <HackEgo> proli pique ritautar gamenti gaufi ave fonnéen franparto attuaratenda deture manulle cesselbst condaulzen tolo babild fréde livant dylacérul adjibolit semento périete ïaphral compes fondo spari
14:49:11 <HackEgo> Unknown option: portugeese
14:50:33 <boily> compes isn't real, or is some random village name maybe.
14:50:42 <boily> "déture" would sound realer.
14:50:50 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän oerjän
14:50:50 <wob_jonas> "manulle" looks like a typo for a real word
14:51:29 <HackEgo> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset
14:51:29 <boily> "manuelle" is real.
14:51:40 <fizzie> wob_jonas: "Manu" is a Finnish given name, so "Manulle" would be "to Manu".
14:52:20 <fizzie> (It's either from Immanuel or Magnus.)
14:53:43 <wob_jonas> you should add a dataset that tries to make up town names in a country
14:54:02 <wob_jonas> I've had some moderate success with that, using the 2000 town names of Hungary
14:54:11 <wob_jonas> generated lots of obvious nonsense, but also some believable ones,
14:54:23 <wob_jonas> and at least one town name that is real but is outside Hungary so wasn't in the input dataset
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15:04:18 <lynn> oops I forgot my wiki password v_v;
15:05:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lily * New user account
15:07:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50824&oldid=50818 * Lily * (+158) Introduction
15:07:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cardinal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50825&oldid=46110 * Lily * (+166) Add Python interpreter.
15:08:33 <wob_jonas> "<zzo38> I don't even know what is the percentage of such thing, such as, what percentage of everyone in here is a furry, what percentage is a programmer, and what percentage is someone with a moustache, and then also the combination the percentage too. Possibly it is not quite known and may not ever be known, but the assumption to be programmer is
15:08:33 <wob_jonas> probably valid; everyone or nearly everyone on here probably can computer programming at least."
15:08:34 <fizzie> That reminds me, I should really try to get that email stuff working properly.
15:08:51 <fizzie> Every now and then someone requests a password reset, and the email bounces and comes to me.
15:09:05 <fizzie> But possibly some of them fail silently.
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15:10:55 <fizzie> (Currently the wiki is using the platform sendmail, but there's no valid reverse DNS entry for the system, and some mail servers really don't like that. I tried to do $wgSMTP via the other system that handles incoming @esolangs.org email, but for whatever reason it didn't work, and I didn't have time to debug why.)
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15:11:27 <boily> I'm unfurry, I proprogrammer, I also beard and mustache.
15:15:11 <boily> last week I tried to describe an applicative functor in java. didn't work :(
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15:21:27 <wob_jonas> boily: how hard did you try? did you write a whole interpreter for a virtual machine in java and compiled your applicative functor to it?
15:22:32 <boily> I managed to get sensible functor and monad interfaces, but couldn't make applicative compile.
15:22:53 <boily> that wouldn't be hard, just insane.
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15:29:29 <lynn> Without higher kinded types? :o
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16:30:18 <HackEgo> Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset
16:30:26 <HackEgo> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M
16:31:19 <HackEgo> gusta pecce nosum agment can weet scensorrhr mulu ibmb fortic peli hagbanabou cond kamanizatio fyd conocarbazukuk anifan broch amborgle edmir refetione musten sen 6pagamy wal
16:31:38 <HackEgo> demo icfholle zha ate insuartr shar pvbaral weiser beati aochaf pude her aam rat severt gely utionapa incement myoful call muleav variou varth alr bayt
16:31:41 <HackEgo> thaw god honi nnde unaroma fundi mon pener wushme coppreed mismilk wheefelf isport tof gar igno you blain shing conc eque prolo meft widd aidnamilny
16:31:44 <HackEgo> dresenterebible roylchanituarensen genetranceledeckesau almiggsvillloc pareakood musichlactionaldown juveentabhagomaya aschenylamareke enicketcarun chrifferrarentroph senaengraverck caudingllni nauiachreemgaa diokedoglow saloxingman bercedenttingh onevotiuat emfcydiah raihartholmemher guarehannelhon cedelegan chialisbialian persaurobiicroby outpute
16:32:22 <wob_jonas> "can " is real. "cond" is a programmer's word so I guess it's fine. "broch" is misspelled I think. "6pagamy" has a number in it, strange
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16:33:48 <wob_jonas> "demo, ate, her, rat, call" are real words
16:34:17 <wob_jonas> "incement" sounds like an English word
16:35:48 <wob_jonas> "thaw, god, you" are real, "coppreed, mismilk" are funny ones that look close to English, "blain, meft" are reasonably good ones
16:36:47 <wob_jonas> "igno, conc, prolo" look like the kind of informal abbreviated words that you can find in a chat
16:37:54 <wob_jonas> ``` words --french -o 5 20; words --french -o -4 20
16:37:56 <HackEgo> adhsslavoraterssation hanissentre tentsimumquesentas mullmala inverentransforman sumppelintraft vidofuminisquesina orcédâtrescrie chantseau lilletterateur joinianmoirolly intesonnelles croiagantuée solettwallaningarauton abricessssoldata gretteremioleuipoglque raphonomagnati golgoritivilas aboreauxjeux hagiconcembatalio \ resons péquis dimenl
16:38:52 <HackEgo> publissant hetta aufilla œsara pre appant mogabris dornândre defflue épic marro prol oupéribéro sitaviè créter siléon antérien devre exuées elphurs
16:42:25 <wob_jonas> créter is almost right ("crêter" turns out to be an obscure real word)
16:42:59 <HackEgo> truciogran désisse mations vœux ilgiamussive auginietnoul àinsiste fraiens conce's spiry exclapol ficent medactifients belle graphina sacque vogerkl yaillée llairesidenpour dagesiroscollanda
16:45:28 <wob_jonas> vœux is a real word meaning wows, mations is a real word, belle is a real word, and apparently sacquer is a real word too. not bad
16:48:59 <wob_jonas> ``` words --eng-us -o -2 30 | sed 's/\>/coin/g'
16:49:00 <HackEgo> prochercoin inlyftedcoin maidentoneyearmecoin applecoin inlcoin megraphicoin loemirocoin sevechcoin tfromumcoin craclobcoin niptieldofcoin nundiffussingcoin mussneycoin pructiocoin chlystoncoin landalpoldicoin dopycnidiomeccoin migraftcoin cuitcoin anistriacoin diagainticcoin dealbersusperitcoin conalyevcoin traineicoin cernanthcoin
16:51:22 <wob_jonas> maidentoneyearmecoin -- maiden tone year me coin. like when a dragon forces a village to tribute a young maiden to her every year, singing her to sleep.
16:51:51 <wob_jonas> megraphicoin and applecoin are nice
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16:53:08 <wob_jonas> though applecoin is unlikely, it would probably be called iCoin instead
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17:22:37 <HackEgo> The `words dictionary framework was designed by Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
17:23:20 <oerjan> wob_jonas: while that is true, i don't feel like Sirs design dictionary frameworks.
17:24:46 <wob_jonas> Guiston Degraîme is still my favorite. Zwübert von Pfölliger is a bit too over the top
17:26:27 <oerjan> maybe we should ask Christian Höner zu Siederdissen for advice
17:27:34 <oerjan> i mean, that's a _genuine_ programmer.
17:27:55 <ais523> where the other names generated by a markov chain, by any chance?
17:29:01 <oerjan> no, i made them by hand, except for Stronderowich which i adapted from genuine `words output
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17:29:36 <oerjan> (my attempts at inventing a fake polish name failed, i had a stray v and when i corrected it to w the name turned out real)
17:31:53 <wob_jonas> For a fake Hungarian name, I'd suggest suffixing "ia" to just about anything to get a fake female given name. Though as `words doesn't have a Hungarian database, I'm not sure why the wisdom needs a Hungarian sounding name.
17:32:39 <oerjan> i was mostly going by nationalities present in the channel
17:33:35 <wob_jonas> (Hungarian family names are easier, because almost anything is realistic as a family name.)
17:34:26 <oerjan> it's hard to find a plausible english first name that isn't a real last name, i find
17:34:50 <oerjan> which is why i haven't got something better than Bick. although that's probably real too
17:34:52 <wob_jonas> oerjan: there too, try to go for an obviously female one
17:38:24 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,Hå,Klens Hå,
17:38:26 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Bick Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
17:38:42 <oerjan> norwegians very commonly have two first names (i'm an exception)
17:39:09 <wob_jonas> oerjan: Americans usually have two first names too, but they often don't use the second, or only use an initial
17:39:49 <wob_jonas> whereas only a minority of people with Hungarian names have two given names
17:40:23 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,ck,ck T.,
17:40:26 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Bick T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
17:44:55 <oerjan> at least with norwegian names i can easily make one i'm sure is fake
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17:51:19 <ais523> the question is, can you make American and British names which clearly belong to their respective nationalities, but are fake?
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17:53:46 <oerjan> <-- i think several of them are real, or at least plausible. hävda, hakan, läppe, tuvandet, blottning, häck
17:53:56 <oerjan> *<wob_jonas> of the swedish, "sven" sounds good enough
17:54:31 <wob_jonas> Do you know real names that clearly seem to be British or American, and start with a consonant? Removing the initial consonant is an easy way to get fake names.
17:54:47 <oerjan> ais523: well i failed at that, because i thought i was going for british and someone said it was american.
17:55:47 <wob_jonas> let me think if it's possible to get good Hungarian fake names like that
17:55:49 <oerjan> i'm making it too hard for myself by trying to avoid them being last names too
17:56:23 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s,Bick,Upert,
17:56:31 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
17:57:02 <oerjan> if that's not british i don't know how to make it british
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17:58:21 <oerjan> now what was the other i thought of
17:59:09 <wob_jonas> I can't really. Ariann, Arianna, and Illa sound plausible, but I'm not sure they're fake. I'll have to check the List.
17:59:23 <ais523> Arianna is definitely a real name
18:01:48 <wob_jonas> and so is Ariana and Arián, but Ariann is genuine fake
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18:02:08 <ais523> "Zella" is really realistic, but I can believe it's fake
18:02:49 <wob_jonas> So people sometimes give rare names to their children even when that rare name isn't a horribly stupid their child will hate
18:03:34 <ais523> there are all sorts of rules for constructing non-ridiculous-sounding names, rare or otherwise
18:03:43 <ais523> there are people who chart the popularity of names and try to work out what's special about them
18:04:06 <wob_jonas> We could borrow from the ton of names that Asimov have invented for his robots-Foundation universe, or names invented for Star Wars (but not the most popular ones like Rey because those very quickly become real), or names from the ASOIAF universe.
18:05:12 <ais523> one thing I learned playing RPGs is that almost arbitrarily silly names seem reasonable in fiction after you've heard them a few times
18:05:18 <ais523> I'm not sure this works in real life though
18:05:31 <wob_jonas> "chart the popularity of names and try to work out what's special about them" => usually they're popular because a lot of people you know have already got that name, but very hated figures like Hitler didn't. typically these are biblical names or close varieties, but there are exceptions.
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18:09:18 <wob_jonas> I quite like "Lodovik", because it's used for two characters in Asimov's universe, Lodovik Antyook and Lodovik Trema
18:10:20 <LKoen> ais523: the problem with real life is that people keep hearing about you for the first time
18:10:38 <oerjan> lodovik has to be real.
18:11:27 <LKoen> ludovic is a common french name
18:11:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ↄ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=50826&oldid=47150 * Rottytooth * (+213) updated description
18:11:43 <oerjan> and it sounds like what it'd become in some slavic language
18:14:29 <wob_jonas> Asimov figured out a lot of strange spellings of names. The most well known is Hari Seldon of course. Then there's Wendell Urth, Giskard Reventlov, Kelden Amadiro, and the emperor Cleon I. Though I hear "Cleon" is a real name, and I'm unsure if "Wendell" is a real spelling.
18:18:29 <wob_jonas> Oh! Can I propose "Zália"? That's a suffix of a real Hungarian given name, is fake, and sounds plausible.
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18:21:52 <oerjan> `slwd `words//s;ik,;& Gareen Shergyle,;
18:21:54 <HackEgo> `words//The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Gareen Shergyle, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
18:23:51 <oerjan> i think Gareen may technically be real somewhere. i took it from the logs.
18:24:57 <oerjan> i figured we needed some name that was plausibly american too
18:25:19 <wob_jonas> Or I could try to replace the initial consonant with another consonant
18:27:10 <oerjan> are you saying there's something wrong with Győrvan? it was sort of a portmanteau, although i guess György only has short dots but what kind of fake hungarians doesn't have long ones
18:28:20 <oerjan> hm but the a should be long
18:28:37 <wob_jonas> oerjan: Győrvan is fine as a family name. Sárbik is fine as a family name too. Family names are easy, there are so strange ones I'm prepared to believe a lot. It's finding a good given names that's hard.
18:29:34 <wob_jonas> which one was supposed to have been the given name?
18:30:04 <wob_jonas> Ok. I assumed Sárvik would be the given name.
18:30:30 <oerjan> that would be weird in a list of international names
18:31:15 <oerjan> although i guess i would think differently if there were a chinese one...
18:31:38 <wob_jonas> it's just that Győrvan sounded like a more reasonable family name
18:32:09 <wob_jonas> and neither sounded like a reasonable given name
18:33:28 <oerjan> i guess i don't have any intuition what makes a hungarian word sound like a given name
18:34:22 <wob_jonas> the problem with given names is that there are few of them. most people have common ones.
18:34:23 <wob_jonas> for family names, only like half or two thirds of people have common ones
18:35:34 <oerjan> i'd give you free hands, except that i'm worrying that another female name would be implausibly many in a list of programmers.
18:36:34 <oerjan> hmph if i change Gareen -> Garin then suddenly it becomes one of those ASOIAF ones
18:37:21 <wob_jonas> I think the easiest way to get a plausible but fake given name for a Hungarian is to make a name where both the family name and the given name are obviously foreign. Make them both slavic, or both german, or both vietnamese.
18:38:35 <oerjan> but would it then look hungarian to any non-hungarian?
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18:42:37 <wob_jonas> Would it be too real if you used "Ince", which is a real historical name that popes had, but I think nobody gets it anymore.
18:44:59 <oerjan> . o O ( horrible puns solve everything )
18:45:30 <wob_jonas> nah, using a real name nobody has just sounds fake
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19:05:00 <zzo38> Trying to debug SDLTERM and SDLTERM-MCK I found that executing the testing program for sdlterm-mck when sdlterm is compiled with optimization and executed through valgrind results in a complain of "SDL_SetAlpha" even though it shouldn't be calling that function. It only does so in that case though; if a different JavaScript program is used, it won't cause that problem. The problem is caused even if audio is disabled.
19:05:47 <oerjan> `coins --eng-us -o -2 30
19:05:50 <HackEgo> oklycoin renyorinandcoin rethoumfcoin jeolargycoin diffedaiastuvcoin jmndcoin mejoiccoin guttactucoin viryercoin casseroycoin clecromentocoin koontiamcoin nreikecoin cimatachtshirmlycoin corschecoin khalftcoin aretankhcoin libransfercoin sstufcoin tarmonocoin epillcoin weflowgover
19:06:14 <HackEgo> words ${1---eng-1M --esolangs 20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g' | rainwords
19:06:38 <HackEgo> #!/usr/bin/perl \ use strict; use warnings; \ use v5.10; \ use open qw( :encoding(UTF-8) :std); \ use File::Basename 'dirname'; \ use Storable 'retrieve'; \ use List::Util qw(sum min); \ use Getopt::Long qw(:config gnu_getopt); \ BEGIN { \ eval { \ require Math::Random::MT::Perl; Math::Random::MT::Perl->import('rand'); \ }; \ #wa
19:15:21 <zzo38> It does not cause that problem if valgrind isn't used.
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22:22:10 <zzo38> This is the fragment program I wrote for use with OpenGL for making white pixels to be transparent: TEMP R0; TEMP R1; TEX R0,fragment.position,texture[1],RECT; DP3 R1,R0,{1}.x; SLT R1,R1,{4,4,4,3}; MUL result.color,R1,R0; Do you know if there is better way?
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22:42:35 <FireFly> That doesn't look like GLSL
22:43:13 <FireFly> What do the TEX, DP3 and SLT operations do?
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22:54:49 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/zb1GwR.jpg
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22:57:51 <zzo38> TEX allow to read from a texture, DP3 is three-components dot-product, and SLT means the result is 1 if the first input is less or is 0 otherwise
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23:02:46 <zzo38> FireFly: Do you know OpenGL so well? I don't know OpenGL so well.
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23:08:20 <zzo38> To make it work with any transparency colour keys, will be a bit more difficult, but I think, can be done, by subtracting the colour key value and then dot product that result with itself, and then can do with SLT or SGE, followed by MUL, similar to what I have above. (I have not tested this.)
23:09:42 <zzo38> Do you expect to work? Or maybe it won't be enough precision? What is the precision of the calculation anyways?
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