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00:25:46 <oerjan> my touchpad driver has an annoying feature where sometimes if i scroll down a bit (with two fingers) and release, it immediately starts scrolling fast in the opposite direction... is this common?
00:28:00 <oerjan> hm i cannot seem to reproduce it on purpose
00:28:04 <shachaf> Are you maybe accidentally touching it in another place at the same time?
00:28:16 <shachaf> It sounds familiar but I don't think I've had that exact issue.
00:28:56 <oerjan> could be? i've tried to disable all manner of extra gestures (although the driver keeps removing options, now it no longer allows me to do nothing for 3 fingers)
00:29:30 <shachaf> have you tried installing a different operating system hth
00:30:23 <oerjan> also this is in IE, so technically that could have the blame too...
00:30:50 <shachaf> Is the channel topic supposed to be quoting that Adams thing?
00:31:00 <shachaf> If so, it's doing it very badly.
00:31:23 * oerjan doesn't use any other programs with scrolling, so wouldn't know
00:31:55 <oerjan> it is. what would be better?
00:32:45 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel almost, but not quite, entirely without esolang discussions | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
00:32:55 <oerjan> i guess i should have actually looked it up
00:35:45 <ais523> incidentally, there's a PPCG question that's a miniature esolang design contest
00:35:53 <ais523> I've designed an esolang for it but am having problems proving it TC
00:36:06 <ais523> which is not surprising, as the language is something of a cross between Incident and Malbolge
00:37:08 <oerjan> . o O ( just use Malbolge Unshackled hth)
00:38:00 <oerjan> did y'all prove that other thing I/O-complete yet?
00:38:24 <oerjan> someone said it had spread to a discord chat
00:40:44 <oerjan> ais523: if it combines incident's ability to use whichever tokens with malbolge's insistence of having specific character subsets in specific spots, it could get awkward
00:40:56 <ais523> what other thing? +=`?
00:41:22 <ais523> well, the language is much more elegant than Incident /or/ Malbolge
00:42:02 <ais523> also less syntactically complex than either, which is probably good for my sanity
00:46:24 <oerjan> `` rhino -e print "Hi"
00:46:26 <HackEgo> js: Couldn't read source file "Hi: Hi (No such file or directory)".
00:46:37 <oerjan> `` rhino -e 'print "Hi"'
00:46:39 <HackEgo> js: "<command>", line 1: missing ; before statement \ js: print "Hi" \ js: .........^
00:46:55 <oerjan> `` rhino -e 'print "Hi";'
00:46:56 <HackEgo> js: "<command>", line 1: missing ; before statement \ js: print "Hi"; \ js: .........^
00:47:24 <fizzie> `` rhino -e 'print("Hi");' # it's just a function call
00:48:08 <oerjan> `mkx rhino-e//rhino -e "$1"
00:48:38 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rhino-e: not found
00:51:28 <oerjan> `rhino-e print(+==+);
00:51:44 <oerjan> `rhino-e print(+==);
00:52:21 <oerjan> `rhino-e print(+==+);
00:52:35 * oerjan isn't doing this very well
00:52:43 <ais523> `rhino-e print(==_
00:52:44 <ais523> `rhino-e print(==)
00:52:45 <HackEgo> js: "<command>", line 1: missing ) after argument list \ js: print(==_ \ js: ............^
00:53:48 <oerjan> `rhino-e print([+]);
00:54:53 <oerjan> `rhino-e print([+][+]);
00:55:17 <fizzie> `js print("we had this");
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00:55:27 <HackEgo> http://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/js
00:55:52 <fizzie> I was going to move your rhino-e into bin/js for simplicity, but there was one already.
00:56:01 <fizzie> It's a lot more elaborate.
00:56:25 <fizzie> Can't get an URL to that. :/
00:56:54 <fizzie> I'm guessing it might look quite similar except without the "-e".
00:57:24 <HackEgo> /usr/bin/rhino: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
00:57:55 <oerjan> `` diff /usr/bin/rhino bin/js
00:57:56 <HackEgo> 8,11c8,10 \ < ## \ < ## Remove bootclasspath overriding for OpenJDK since \ < ## it now use a mangled version of Rhino (in sun.org.mozilla.rhino package) \ < ## \ --- \ > ## Fix for #512498 \ > ## Change Bootclasspath when using OpenJDK because OpenJDK6 \ > ## bundle his own release of Rhino. \ 16c15,19 \ < ## \ --- \ > isOpenJDK=`$JAVA_CMD -versi
00:58:25 <fizzie> Probably a different version.
00:58:50 <fizzie> sled bin/js//s,\$@,$*,
00:58:56 <fizzie> `sled bin/js//s,\$@,$*,
00:59:39 <fizzie> I don't think the "$@" was really a good idea there, because there was already that implicit -e. True, you could provide extra arguments, but they would have had to go *after* the source.
01:02:33 <oerjan> `js print([[+]+][+][+]);
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01:05:37 <shachaf> fizzie: No one's using `edit #scow
01:07:54 <fizzie> I don't think people have been editing much in general.
01:16:01 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie, how does x86 protected mode segmentation work again
01:16:29 <Phantom__Hoover> like does it actually involve segment registers or is it a page table type thing
01:17:16 <fizzie> It does sort of involve segment registers, in that you put "descriptors" in them, and the descriptors are basically some flag bits + an index into one of the descriptor tables.
01:17:43 <fizzie> And the descriptor table entry then contains the segment base address, limit (size) and more boring bits.
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01:19:24 <fizzie> Well, I mean, everyone pretty much just configures it to be as close to a flat memory model as possible, and just does "architectural" things with segments.
01:19:46 <fizzie> So C pointers are just the offset part, and the segments are implied from context.
01:22:36 <fizzie> Sorry, terminology fail on my behalf.
01:22:43 <fizzie> What you load in the segment register is a "selector".
01:23:01 <fizzie> A "descriptor" is the descriptor table entry, which is what the selector is referring to.
01:23:19 <int-e> in 64 bit mode, the segment registers are actually forced to cover the whole 64 bit address space, with the exception of gs, which has a base stored in an MSR.
01:24:25 <fizzie> And there was something a little complicated with the vestigial segmentation in 64-bit mode.
01:24:46 <int-e> (hmm, I wonder what the intended use for the second one is... thread local storage, and user accessible part of some kernel level thread info?
01:25:22 <fizzie> Something like while the fs/gs base was in an MSR so that you could load a full 64-bit address there, you could also load them via descriptors, or some-such.
01:25:48 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie, well right, i'm aware that in practice it was just flat
01:26:06 <int-e> (and I have no real need to find out either)
01:26:15 <Phantom__Hoover> but i'm curious how, conceptually, you're meant to represent non-flat pointers in the c memory model
01:27:05 <fizzie> Phantom__Hoover: Well, I mean, you could implement it so that pointers (segment selector, offset) pairs, and every memory allocation adds a new segment descriptor in the table.
01:27:24 <pikhq> If you intend to have *standard* C semantics, you'd have to have pointers be (segment selector, offset) pairs.
01:27:27 <fizzie> (You'd run out of descriptors pretty fast.)
01:27:48 <pikhq> And if you wish to have objects span segments (e.g. real mode segments) you need to have complicated pointer arithmetic.
01:28:22 <fizzie> Phantom__Hoover: Well, because then deallocation would be just removing the descriptor.
01:28:36 <fizzie> So okay, you wouldn't exactly "need" that.
01:28:51 <fizzie> But it's the obvious kind of mapping for leveraging all the segmentation synergies.
01:31:11 <fizzie> Also the one where you could conceivably get into trouble with invalid pointers before actually dereferencing them, since loading an invalid selector to a segment register would cause a #GP.
01:31:40 <fizzie> Though I can't think of a concrete example where you'd be doing that without intending to access some memory there.
01:32:15 <pikhq> The somewhat more likely use case would be using it a bit like (crap) pages.
01:32:42 <pikhq> Particularly for the 286's 16-bit protected mode.
01:34:17 <fizzie> pikhq: For context, this was re the C rationale's explanation for why any use of an invalid pointer is undefined, not only dereferencing: http://sprunge.us/SfKi
01:35:20 <pikhq> I suspect such an implementation would be *most* likely on a VM architecture.
01:35:34 <shachaf> There was some non-segmented architecture that that was problematic for, wasn't there?
01:35:50 <pikhq> ... Say, one crafted to make C memory fuckups hard to do anything with other than crash.
01:35:59 <shachaf> when are we all switching to the mill twh
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01:38:29 <shachaf> pikhq: you should invest your spare CHF in mill computing inc. hth
01:39:18 * pikhq screws up, invests it in a computerized flour mill
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01:43:05 <oerjan> darn, there computing progress ground to a halt
01:44:33 <shachaf> computing progress goes boinc
01:49:38 <fizzie> shachaf: People always mention that "some computers" [weasel words] will cause a fault of some sort if you load an invalid pointer to an "address register", but they never seem to actually cite sources.
01:49:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51097&oldid=45032 * Challenger5 * (+437)
01:55:02 <fizzie> "I remember this coming up when we were considering porting Multics to a (then) new Honeywell process (I think it was the DPS/88). -- The new hardware trapped when loading addresses into pointer registers, --" (random forum posting)
01:56:07 <fizzie> Ah, here's a little better quote, with an example as well: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.std.c/VoPl6SiejEk
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01:56:15 <fizzie> (Maybe should've gone to comp.std.c in the first place.)
02:10:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:///]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51098&oldid=51097 * Oerjan * (+117) /* Even Faster Counter */ *BONK*
02:13:34 <zzo38> I thought the "Future Systems" computer would be error if you load an invalid address?
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02:50:41 <HackEgo> [U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006E LATIN SMALL LETTER N] [U+0064 LATIN SMALL LETTER D] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0078 LATIN SMALL LETTER X]
03:23:00 <HackEgo> [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L]
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16:44:59 <oerjan> well that was a fast log to read
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16:47:15 <wob_jonas> wow, you're so fast today, HackEgo
16:47:53 <oerjan> wtf do you have that temperature at this season
16:52:51 <int-e> the quick-footed shadowboxing oerjan jumps over the lazy log
16:54:07 <oerjan> > nub $ sort "the quick-footed shadowboxing oerjan jumps over the lazy log"
16:54:08 <int-e> . o O ( almost surfing at the speed of light! )
16:54:54 <oerjan> hm thought you'd missed the r but there's another one.
16:55:51 <int-e> okay, another one, if you look at what's left of the original
16:56:47 <oerjan> yeah, right, that's TOTALLY what i did, um.
16:58:52 <int-e> shachaf: have you looked at "girls love robots"?
17:00:27 <oerjan> . o O ( "my boyfriend is so metal" )
17:01:27 <int-e> girls love robots and pizza and hate nerds; however they don't mind being near nerds if they have pizza.
17:01:47 <int-e> I'm not sure what kind of message this game is supposed to convey, but the puzzles are kind of fun.
17:02:16 <int-e> (though very repetetive, but there are a few cute twists)
17:04:01 <HackEgo> repetive:A repetive action is one that tries to repeat something, but fails miserably.
17:06:31 <shachaf> int-e: when you said you did some nonobvious puzzles, did you mean that the solutions were nonobvious or that the puzzles themselves were nonobvious twh
17:12:54 <int-e> shachaf: the former. one case where I had trouble finding the right rule because the training example I encountered at first were too simple.
17:13:21 <int-e> and maybe two cases where the environment played into the puzzle in a surprising way
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17:36:27 <DHeadshot> The spec of the language I'm writing contains the following text: 'Please note that if `A` is a Character variable containing `"7"` and `B` is a Character variable containing `"0"` and `C` is a String variable containing `"0"`, that `A - B` yields a Character containing BEL (the Bell Character), but that `A - C` yields a String `"55"` (55 being the ASCII value of 7).'
17:38:26 <DHeadshot> It makes sense when you think really hard about it, but not much to the average user...
17:39:00 <DHeadshot> Note that if both "7" and "0" are strings, the result is "7" (a string).
17:41:44 <DHeadshot> At least it's not a BrainFuck clone...
17:44:14 <oerjan> "At least it's not a BrainFuck clone" may be a little weird, but at At least it's not a BrainFuck clone.
17:52:35 <DHeadshot> Incidentally, this function I've been working on for about a week is now 4000 lines long and counting... I probably should have broken it up more.
17:54:53 <DHeadshot> And it's not even finished, though I may be half-way through now...
18:08:46 <zzo38> You mention "The Witness" game but do you know "The Wit.nes" game?
18:22:30 <HackEgo> 614) * oerjan concludes that unsafeCoerce has no effect on strictness
18:23:16 <int-e> why would it, beyond possibly confusing the strictness analysis...
18:24:19 <oerjan> if you converted a lazy field to a strict one, perhaps. i don't remember what i was testing.
18:24:59 <oerjan> hm how does unsafeCoerce work with the new levity stuff...
18:25:55 <int-e> @quote kind-preserving
18:25:56 <lambdabot> int-e says: What, unsafeCoerce# is kind-preserving? how boring :/
18:26:07 <int-e> . o O ( is that still true? )
18:34:01 <HackEgo> Which of You Burns Brightest?
18:34:58 <oerjan> :t GHC.Prim.unsafeCoerce#
18:35:11 <oerjan> i got something else in ghci
18:35:23 <oerjan> forall (q :: GHC.Types.RuntimeRep) (r :: GHC.Types.RuntimeRep) (a :: TYPE
18:35:45 <oerjan> which looks like it _doesn't_ require the same kind
18:37:25 <oerjan> int-e: so, apparently no.
18:39:33 <oerjan> Prelude GHC.Prim> unsafeCoerce# (1# :: Int#) :: Int
18:39:33 <oerjan> Segmentation fault/access violation in generated code
18:40:36 <lambdabot> ghc says: Dangerous-looking argument. Probable cause: bad unsafeCoerce#
18:40:44 <shachaf> Oh, I meant the one above.
19:04:31 <zzo38> GHC has a -XUnicodeSyntax extension, but I think should also have -XAntiUnicodeSyntax extension which allow you to import modules that have names containing non-ASCII characters without needing any non-ASCII characters in your own file.
19:05:02 <zzo38> (You can combine these extensions, although there wouldn't be much point in doing so.)
19:05:31 <oerjan> the Haskell standard is Unicode-based, deal with it.
19:10:06 <oerjan> you can probably do it with template haskell
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19:15:33 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose so. That would be a way to do it without a new extension
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22:49:34 <Jafet> five, according to ais523 http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/111002
22:50:56 <Jafet> it's a TC subset though
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23:00:57 <wob_jonas> Jafet: probably six for what zzo38 wants, but that's very interesting, I haven't seen it yet
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