←2017-03-18 2017-03-19 2017-03-20→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:03:32 <alercah> wait I could go say hi to lambdabot in person?
00:06:38 <fizzie> shachaf: No, but I think we had a recent visitor from there.
00:07:20 <fizzie> I think I've heard something about Microsoft and Kirkland as well.
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00:10:45 <int-e> oerjan: no I wasn't keeping it on CaC... but it was pushing the limits of its VPS.
00:10:46 <boily> `relcome IRCFrEAK
00:10:48 <HackEgo> IRCFrEAK: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:11:02 <boily> alercah: hellorcah! can you take pictures?
00:12:51 <int-e> oerjan: and somehow the VPS type I wanted is currently "out of stock" at ramnode's NL location... and it doesn't really matter where lambdabot is running... not even for privacy concerns given the unencrypted state of IRC.
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00:16:04 * oerjan recalls something about irc and tls but cannot remember if freenode was supporting it or not
00:16:30 <int-e> it does
00:16:44 <int-e> but it's still fairly moot
00:17:15 <int-e> if you check /whois lambdabot you'll see it's even using tls
00:17:57 <oerjan> fancy
00:19:40 <int-e> it's the most secure thing ever: socat TCP4-LISTEN:6667,bind=,reuseaddr,fork,forever OPENSSL:chat.freenode.net:6697,verify=0 ... the last option means that MITM attacks are not prevented.
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00:29:46 * oerjan suddenly wonders if anyone's made "man in the middle" lyrics to that michael jackson melody
00:32:12 <oerjan> apparently there are at least two real songs with that title.
00:32:20 <oerjan> (bee gees and abba)
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00:49:52 <boily> `wisdom
00:49:53 <HackEgo> nak//
00:49:59 <boily> `wisdom
00:50:00 <HackEgo> ​#esoteric-blah//#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah!
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01:15:31 <boily> "the +10 mace "Natiheoq" (weapon) {protect, +Inv}".
01:15:34 <boily> mwah ah ah.
01:15:38 <boily> AH AH AH AH AH :D
01:18:37 <rdococ> hi
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01:21:55 <Jafet> natty hack
01:33:06 <boily> rdochelloc, hppavellon[1], Jafellot.
01:34:41 <rdococ> hoily
01:38:41 <boily> `? Jafet
01:38:43 <HackEgo> Jafet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:40:04 <rdococ> Jafetafet
01:54:48 <rdococ> hi
01:56:22 * boily bores rdococ with his choice of surgical tool: https://achatmaterieldentiste.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/forme-fraise-metallique.png?w=600&h=256
01:56:49 <rdococ> I am being bored.
02:01:03 <rdococ> Ow.
02:01:05 <boily> and to make sure that everything is perfectly clean and aseptic, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorhexidine
02:01:08 <boily> ow?
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02:04:15 <oerjan> boily: you may have forgot the anesthetics hth
02:06:11 <boily> oh that.
02:11:47 <rdococ> zz
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02:27:03 <hppavilion[1]> I just typed eval(In[-1]) into ipython
02:27:05 <hppavilion[1]> I have no regrets
02:46:13 <adu> hppavilion[1]!
02:46:27 <hppavilion[1]> adu!
02:46:29 <adu> how goes?
02:47:23 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Not particularly well this week :/
02:47:40 <adu> hppavilion[1]: I'm sorry to hear that...
02:48:34 <adu> hppavilion[1]: anything I can do to help?
02:48:50 <adu> debugging? reverse engineering? refactoring?
02:49:02 <hppavilion[1]> adu: No, it's nothing codey
02:49:14 <hppavilion[1]> adu: One of my cats died. Don't particularly want to talk about it
02:49:33 <adu> hppavilion[1]: take a moment, that's all you can do
02:51:01 <adu> I've never known that, I've had 2 indoor-outdoor cats disappear into the abyss, but I've never known the feeling of seeing such an extended family member pass like that
02:51:30 <adu> but in some sense, it's worse not knowing
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04:53:10 <hppavilion[1]> I should change my lastname to Dotorg...
04:53:20 <hppavilion[1]> "should"
04:54:09 <shachaf> Like Ingy döt Net?
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05:22:57 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Like Kim Dotcom
05:23:29 <shachaf> Oh. Scow.
05:23:54 <hppavilion[1]> New surnames should be invented more often
05:24:13 <hppavilion[1]> "President Dotgov announced today her pick for Secretary of Defense"
05:26:23 <hppavilion[1]> So as not to leave you hanging, it was Nukem Dotmil.
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06:06:46 <Jafet> apparently, in MUMPS you can abbreviate keywords: https://github.com/OSEHRA/VistA-M/blob/master/Packages/Dental/Routines/DENTA1.m
06:09:15 <Jafet> in fact this looks like a great language
06:09:19 <Jafet> RE W ! S DIC("A")="Select "_$P($T(OPT),S,4)_": EXIT// ",DIC="^DOPT("_""""_$P($T(OPT),S,5)_""""_",",DIC(0)="AEQMN" D ^DIC G:X=""!(X=U) EXIT G:Y<0 RE K DIC,J,O D @($P($T(OPT+Y),S,4)) G PR
06:31:18 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently a "new study" found that most people see themselves as nicer than they actually are
06:31:33 <hppavilion[1]> Which raises the questions of "how the hell did you even do that"
06:53:20 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: maybe you could ask other people who know them to rate them on a scale from 1 to 10?
06:53:29 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: sort of like style points
06:53:36 <Vorpal> but for niceness
06:53:38 <hppavilion[1]> Vorpal: Maybe, but you still run into the issue of different scales
06:53:44 <Vorpal> Obviously
06:54:05 <Vorpal> I didn't say the solution was good, but is the only one remotely close to workable I can think of
06:54:45 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: still isn't a scale from 1 = Literally Hitler to 10 = The incarnate of niceness objective?!
06:56:18 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: anyway it wouldn't surprise me if the effect was true for the simple reason that a similar effect seems to exist for other aspects of ourselves. People think they are smarter than they really are and so on.
07:01:06 <hppavilion[1]> Vorpal: No
07:01:25 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, wait, missparse
07:01:40 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, the misparse didn't change that the answer is 'no'
07:02:04 <hppavilion[1]> ^sssssss
07:02:12 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: um? what are you saying "no" to?
07:02:18 <Vorpal> the joke about the scale?
07:02:37 <hppavilion[1]> ...wait
07:02:47 <hppavilion[1]> ^^^s/.*/s,ss,s,/
07:02:58 <Vorpal> what
07:03:07 <hppavilion[1]> Fuck
07:03:18 <hppavilion[1]> ^^s/^/^/
07:03:24 <hppavilion[1]> Vorpal: I'm abusing s///
07:03:27 <Vorpal> too early in the morning for sed fuckery
07:03:39 <hppavilion[1]> FAGH
07:03:45 <hppavilion[1]> Vorpal: Doesn't matter anyway, I can't sed today
07:03:57 <Vorpal> fair enough
07:04:09 <hppavilion[1]> I can, however, r//
07:05:31 <Vorpal> what is r?
07:05:44 <Vorpal> I don't know sed well enough, I basically use the s and d commands in it only
07:21:52 <izabera> r reads a file...
07:21:57 <izabera> and it has no //
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08:36:45 <hppavilion[1]> I was just asked why strippers use a pole
08:36:52 <hppavilion[1]> Why dance on a pole? What is the purpose?
08:38:33 <izabera> some (most?) of the moves you do on a pole, you can do on a person
08:39:24 <izabera> so it's erotic because "look what i can do to you"
08:42:12 <hppavilion[1]> (by a 10 year-old)
08:45:10 <izabera> me.confused
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09:09:10 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: a 10 year old surely shouldn't know that a stripper uses a pole to begin with?
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09:14:41 <hppavilion[1]> Vorpal: ...you don't understand children
09:14:50 <hppavilion[1]> (also, we don't count 2016. 2016 was terrible)
09:22:16 <Jafet> strippers? I've been told that pole dancing is a fitness program
09:26:23 <erkin> I thought strippers do pole vaulting.
09:26:32 <erkin> Or was it pole jousting?
09:26:51 <Jafet> yes, that's what the really tall shoes are for
09:30:29 <erkin> I was told they wear them to be closer to God.
09:44:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Adri * New user account
09:44:43 <rdococ> hi
09:45:36 <Vorpal> @tell fizzie cfunge has been migrated to github: https://github.com/VorpalBlade/cfunge
09:45:36 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
09:46:20 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Pole dancing is also very good exercise. I'd probably do it if it didn't mean I had to turn in my man card
09:47:06 <hppavilion[1]> Jafet: Some parents sign their children up for pole dancing classes...
09:47:18 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, I get that it's great exercise, and that there shouldn't be a stigma attached
09:47:22 <hppavilion[1]> But... yeah, no. Don't.
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09:58:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Adesanjo * New user account
09:58:29 <rdococ> yhi
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10:19:01 <\oren\> It is a lot easier to invade england when all the british soldiers are dicking around wiht the italians in Africa
10:33:55 <\oren\> I'm attempting the "Vive la france" achievement. I've gotten to 1942, I need to get to 1948 without surrendering to anyone
10:34:27 <\oren\> I started by invading belgium and netherlands, and then england.
11:12:46 * hppavilion[1] is the mu and the nu
11:14:21 <hppavilion[1]> TIL modern Greeks call Δ [ˈðelta]
11:15:03 <hppavilion[1]> (rather than [ˈdelta] like you'd expect; Δ makes the /ð/ sound, like the 'th' in "this")
11:18:14 <hppavilion[1]> They call β [viːtə] or something similar
11:19:58 <erkin> Modern Greek has diverged significantly from Ancient Greek.
11:20:23 <erkin> e.g hydros would be pronounced "idhros" (although they no longer call water that - now it's "nera")
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11:42:10 <rdococ> Δis all sounds interesting
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13:05:12 <boily> `wisdom
13:05:14 <HackEgo> mothology//Mothology is the study of moths, myths and mirths.
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14:36:37 <erkin> hellørjan
14:37:51 <oerjan> afterkinoon
14:38:21 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> "President Dotgov announced today her pick for Secretary of Defense" <-- . o O ( i should rule the world from my evil lair Punktumno... )
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14:58:37 <Vorpal> Deewiant: I set up continuous integration for cfunge whereby it automatically runs mycology as one of the tests. Annoying to filter the output to get rid of randomness and date/time though.
15:01:07 <boily> testing is fun!
15:01:19 <oerjan> `? testing
15:01:20 <HackEgo> testing? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:01:31 <oerjan> afternoily
15:01:37 <Deewiant> Vorpal: Run with a fixed seed and libfaketime?
15:02:23 <Vorpal> Deewiant: hm that would be another option. I filter the output. cfunge moved to github today btw
15:02:40 <Vorpal> I plan to finally make a 1.0 release soon, either today or next weekend
15:02:45 <Vorpal> https://github.com/VorpalBlade/cfunge
15:03:17 <Vorpal> Or if that doesn't happen, sometime next year ;P
15:03:38 <Deewiant> Yeah that's the typical way it goes :-)
15:04:31 <oerjan> fizzie: we seem to have a user who cannot get past the introduction - from the esolang e was trying to create, i suspect e's really bad at english
15:04:33 <Vorpal> Deewiant: still, no longer on bzr :)
15:04:54 <oerjan> (as in, everything but the language name was in russian)
15:05:00 <Vorpal> Deewiant: efunge and such might migrate in the not to distant future
15:05:12 <Deewiant> Or next year ;-)
15:05:38 <Vorpal> Need to figure out how to map branches from bzr to git though first. cfunge only had a single branch
15:05:40 <Vorpal> so that was easier
15:06:10 <Deewiant> Are there no ready-made tools for bzr->git that would handle branches?
15:06:20 <Deewiant> Or is it that there are too many alternatives
15:08:31 <Vorpal> Deewiant: there is a bzr fast-export | git fast-import thing (the bzr thing being a plugin) that I used, and that seems to be the only alternative. Unless you go through for example hg in the middle
15:08:56 <Vorpal> hg convert (bundled extension) can import from bzr (among other things)
15:09:03 <Deewiant> Does that mangle the branches then or something?
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15:09:20 <Vorpal> Deewiant: I don't know. The concept of branches doesn't map 1:1 between the two systems
15:09:44 <Vorpal> In bzr a branch is basically just another tree. There is nothing magical like a tag.
15:09:56 <Vorpal> While in git there are several branches in the same tree.
15:10:42 <Vorpal> And hg has yet another concept for branches, whereby it is an attribute of each commit and inherited by default (unless you create a new branch) by child commits.
15:10:59 <Vorpal> going through hg will probably NOT help thus
15:11:51 <Vorpal> So I suspect there will be some finagling involved with branches
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15:13:59 <boily> hellørjan.
15:14:49 <Vorpal> Deewiant: you haven't touched mycology in a long time according to github
15:14:49 <Deewiant> Hm, ok. Never really looked at bzr. I guess that as long as there's some kind of ancestry information it can map things more or less correctly but you may want to do some post-processing to get it to look nice or something
15:14:59 <Deewiant> Yep, that's correct
15:15:11 <Deewiant> Or *funge things in general
15:15:40 <Deewiant> Too little time these days, alas.
15:15:48 <Vorpal> Deewiant: mostly same for me
15:16:09 <Vorpal> Hm.. need do do a couple of things. No release today of cfunge I expect
15:19:31 <oerjan> <erkin> e.g hydros would be pronounced "idhros" (although they no longer call water that - now it's "nera") <-- "nero" * oerjan has been learning greek songs
15:19:42 <erkin> oops
15:19:55 <erkin> Greece is a pretty nice place.
15:20:03 <oerjan> never been there though
15:21:32 <oerjan> given that the basics of the spelling system are ~ 2500 years old, modern greek is actually surprisingly easy to pronounce.
15:21:57 <oerjan> they just use different sounds, but still logically inferrable ones.
15:22:13 <erkin> Being in the same place for millennia helps :P
15:22:43 <oerjan> not really. english also did that, but see how it messed up in < 500 years
15:23:01 <erkin> But English migrated a lot!
15:23:08 <erkin> Well, only from Denmark to England but still
15:23:26 <oerjan> it didn't really get its spelling system until it settled down.
15:23:36 <erkin> Okay okay, Norman invasion and all, I withdraw my argument.
15:24:07 <oerjan> also, i read that not very long ago, most people in the athens area spoke albanian - there has been revival.
15:24:07 <erkin> Hvaðan ertu, örjan?
15:24:31 <erkin> Arnavites?
15:24:33 <oerjan> yeah
15:24:42 <erkin> Arvanites*
15:24:48 <oerjan> *yeah
15:25:33 <erkin> I wonder what happened to Aromanian in Greece these days.
15:27:49 <boily> itym ø̈rjan hth
15:29:11 <oerjan> "In Greece, Aromanians are not recognised as an ethnic but as a linguistic minority and, like the Arvanites, have been indistinguishable in many respects from other Greeks since the 19th century."
15:36:59 <erkin> rip
15:37:17 <erkin> Cultural disappearance makes me sad.
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18:01:18 <Vorpal> Deewiant: branches are causing major issues indeed
18:03:23 <Vorpal> Not sure how to properly handle that at all
18:03:43 <Vorpal> Unless I go via hg actually
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18:05:06 <Vorpal> Because the conversion to hg seems relatively sane, though not completely
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18:13:59 <rdococ> Very unlike me, then. I'm absolutely insane.
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19:55:00 <hppavilion[1]> `? zorn's lemma
19:55:02 <HackEgo> zorn's lemma? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:55:04 <hppavilion[1]> `? zorn's llama
19:55:05 <HackEgo> zorn's llama? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:56:13 <hppavilion[1]> `lowercase2 ÞÐØÆŒ
19:56:44 <HackEgo> No output.
19:56:48 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/lowercase2
19:56:48 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 sed 'y/ØÅÆŒÞÐÄÖÜÁÉÍÓÚÝ/øåæœþðäöüáéíóúý/'
19:57:01 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, that's going slower than you'd expect
20:01:12 <hppavilion[1]> `mkx bin/lowercase2b//#!/bin/bash\ntr A-ZØ a-zø
20:01:15 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2b
20:01:37 <hppavilion[1]> `lowercase2b BRØ
20:01:38 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: /hackenv/bin/lowercase2b: /bin/bash\ntr: bad interpreter: No such file or directory \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/lowercase2b: Success
20:01:46 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/lowercase2b
20:01:46 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash\ntr A-ZØ a-zø
20:02:05 <hppavilion[1]> `sled bin/lowercase2b//s/\\n/\n/
20:02:07 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2b//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-ZØ a-zø
20:02:16 <hppavilion[1]> `lowercase2b BRØ
20:02:46 <HackEgo> No output.
20:02:53 <hppavilion[1]> It seems multi-byte unicode characters cause immense lag.
20:03:02 <hppavilion[1]> Also, I don't understand `tr` apparently.
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20:04:24 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/mkx
20:04:24 <HackEgo> key=$(mk "$@") && echo "$key" && chmod +x "$key"
20:04:26 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/mk
20:04:27 <HackEgo> ​[[ "$1" == ?*//* ]] || { echo usage: "mk[x]" file//contents >&2; exit 1; }; key="${1%%//*}"; value="${1#*//}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "$key")" && echo "$key"
20:06:13 <hppavilion[1]> `mkx bin/lowercase2c
20:06:14 <HackEgo> usage: mk[x] file//contents
20:06:25 <hppavilion[1]> `mkx bin/lowercase2c//
20:06:27 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2c
20:06:59 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo "#/bin/bash\ntr A-Z a-z\ntr Ø ø" > bin/lowercase2c
20:07:01 <HackEgo> No output.
20:07:08 <hppavilion[1]> `cat bin/lowercase2c
20:07:08 <HackEgo> ​#/bin/bash\ntr A-Z a-z\ntr Ø ø
20:07:12 <hppavilion[1]> Hm.
20:07:20 <hppavilion[1]> `sled bin/lowercase2b//s/\\n/\n/g
20:07:21 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2b//#!/bin/bash \ tr A-ZØ a-zø
20:07:31 <hppavilion[1]> `sled bin/lowercase2c//s/\\n/\n/g
20:07:33 <HackEgo> bin/lowercase2c//#/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z \ tr Ø ø
20:07:41 <hppavilion[1]> `lowercase2c BRØ
20:08:12 <HackEgo> No output.
20:08:18 * hppavilion[1] gives up
20:08:24 <hppavilion[1]> `rm bin/lowercase2b
20:08:26 <HackEgo> No output.
20:08:30 <hppavilion[1]> `rm bin/lowercase2c
20:08:32 <HackEgo> No output.
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20:55:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Kvikkalkul]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51382&oldid=34661 * EzoLang * (+25) Use Wayback Machine for the homepage link, as original is 403 now
20:59:55 <Zarutian> one question I have and I do not know where else to ask it (at least on irc): Do programs today need anything more, generally, than the level of primitive recursive functions? Say that I have the usual event loop structured program. I expect all the event handling code not needing Turing completeness in expressiveness.
21:00:43 * Zarutian mainly asks because of the esotaric language LOOP is an example of language that isnt Turing complete but is on the level of primitive recursive functions.
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21:09:36 <int-e> Zarutian: Well, the difference between primitive recursion and turing complete languages is actually quite small, since for any primitive recursive time bound f(x) you can simulate a Turing machine for f(x) steps in a primitive recursive function (this is related to the "one while is enough" idea for while programs)
21:10:42 <int-e> Zarutian: In practice I think people want a) data structures, likely with sharing, which is mathematically unpleasant b) an expressive language c) not bother with termination proofs (and that's where restricting to primitive recursion may hurt you a lot)
21:11:33 <Zarutian> oh, yeah, object|structs heap is a given for what I am thinking about
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21:11:56 <int-e> so what if there is a cycle in there... what does "primitive recursion" mean then?
21:12:10 <int-e> (that's about the point where I want to stop thinking about this)
21:13:31 <Zarutian> pointer|reference following is an activity that sometimes results in endless loops that make single threaded programs seem frozen.
21:14:40 <Zarutian> That there is a limit on how deep or long such pointer chasing can go on is a desireable attribute
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21:17:48 <Zarutian> however most of the datastructures I see today, that could have cycles in them are graphs describing relations between objects. Most other things fall into trees, finate arrays or maps (finate at one instant of time between execution of instructions)
21:18:04 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
21:18:14 <int-e> finite?
21:18:30 <Zarutian> finite
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21:43:57 <hppavilion[1]> ) test
21:43:58 <hppavilion[1]> ( test
21:44:00 <hppavilion[1]> ] test
21:44:01 <hppavilion[1]> [ test
21:44:01 <ffj-bot> hppavilion[1]: |value error: test
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23:38:20 <zzo38> In GURPS game I may soon play, my character's friend is fight with whip (5 yards long) and crossbow. A whip in GURPS is not very good at penetrating armour (it has Armor Divisor (0.5), meaning the target's armour is divided by 0.5 (or multiplied by 2)), and takes two seconds to ready after use, and has -2 to defense, but is more effective at disarming, can entangle opponents, and can "crack" to improve damage.
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23:42:44 <zzo38> by 2
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