←2017-04-18 2017-04-19 2017-04-20→ ↑2017 ↑all
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00:04:26 <rdococ> hoily. are you going to mapole me again?
00:04:32 * rdococ blocks the mapole
00:05:37 <boily> rdochelloc!
00:05:48 * boily is not mapoling rdococ
00:05:58 <boily> block that, punk!
00:06:03 <rdococ> I came up with an esolang that is not just a rehashed version of something else.
00:06:07 * rdococ blocks the non-mapole somehow
00:06:20 <rdococ> it's called Rule. I want to see what you think of it. it's on ze website.
00:07:38 <boily> re Rule: do you plan making it TC? should there be IO?
00:10:18 <rdococ> there is IO.
00:10:33 <rdococ> IREAD for input, OWRITE for output.
00:10:40 <ais523> it probably needs more scales
00:10:48 <ais523> apart from that, though, it seems like a fairly unique idea
00:10:49 <rdococ> most likely.
00:10:57 <ais523> if you have enough scales, many of which are slideable
00:11:03 <rdococ> ye
00:11:04 <ais523> then you probably don't actually need registers
00:11:27 <ais523> instead of slide/sread, you'd have "match S's 1 to T's N, where N is the number on U opposite V's 1"
00:11:44 <ais523> add flow control and that can probably be TC, and might be interesting
00:13:28 <rdococ> yay
00:14:01 <rdococ> I'll probably add a linear scale for logarithms and exponentiation
00:17:27 <rdococ> and a slidable one too for addition
00:18:18 <rdococ> I could have multiple slidable sections
00:20:14 <Alfie275> So do slide rules just add/subtract exponents/logs?
00:21:29 <rdococ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slide_rule
00:24:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51787&oldid=51785 * Rdococ * (+196) /* Overview */ Added L and M linear scales for base e logarithms and addition.
00:25:09 <rdococ> Hm...
00:25:23 <rdococ> how could I add flow control while keeping with the concept of a slide rule
00:26:45 <Alfie275> rdococ: Maybe you could have an instruction that defines a new slide rule?
00:26:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51788&oldid=51787 * Rdococ * (+4) Modified SLIDE.
00:27:00 <rdococ> I was thinking that, but how would it work?
00:27:20 <Alfie275> Well each rule is basically a function right, where you have distance being input and value being output
00:27:39 <Alfie275> And you can define the functions via the slide rule operations
00:27:49 <rdococ> It's not that each rule is a function.
00:28:04 <rdococ> Each pair of rules is a function, and it's a function calculated by the scales.
00:28:20 <Alfie275> Well I mean, you can do the scale as a function
00:28:38 <rdococ> Ah.
00:28:44 <rdococ> Possibly.
00:28:48 <Alfie275> So eg, x distance along the rule the value is y
00:29:07 <rdococ> (Interestingly, each pair of rules in which both rules are unslidable is a single-parameter function, and each pair in which one can be slid with SLIDE is a two-parameter function.)
00:29:19 <Alfie275> For linear it's just y = x, for log its y = e**x etc
00:30:02 * rdococ notes that the base of the logarithmic scale doesn't matter as long as they're the same
00:30:30 <Alfie275> Ah yeah, habit :P
00:30:39 <rdococ> heh.
00:30:46 <rdococ> I like the natural logarithm anyway.
00:31:06 <rdococ> (but base e arithmetic is a little bizarre.)
00:31:23 <rdococ> (You could say it's... esoteric :P)
00:31:34 <rdococ> (of course, it probably has practical uses)
00:31:40 <Alfie275> e**soteric
00:31:49 <rdococ> lol
00:31:55 <rdococ> esoteric has 2 e's in it :P
00:32:04 <Alfie275> e**sote**ric
00:32:18 <rdococ> esoteric has i in it :P
00:32:24 <rdococ> e^sote^ri^c
00:32:38 <rdococ> c is the speed of light, so you must square it
00:32:41 <rdococ> e^sote^ri^c^2
00:33:12 <Alfie275> That reminds me of when I was bored in physics class, and came up with a convoluted way to aproximate g (which is as accurate as actual measurements due to variation over earth)
00:33:28 <Alfie275> g = (pi**2) - e**(-e)
00:33:41 <rdococ> lol, seriously? :P
00:33:53 <Alfie275> = 9.80361636524
00:35:34 <Alfie275> How are programs stored in RULE, do you have a program counter slide that slides along a program rule? :P
00:35:38 <rdococ> ais523: maybe multiple slidable sections?
00:35:59 <rdococ> Alfie275: no, punched cards :P
00:36:05 <ais523> rdococ: yes, that's what I wasa suggesting
00:36:10 <rdococ> oh
00:36:11 <rdococ> :p
00:36:20 <rdococ> oh
00:36:21 <rdococ> nvm
00:36:28 <ais523> <Alfie275> rdococ: Maybe you could have an instruction that defines a new slide rule? ← that's not flow control, that's data expansion
00:36:32 <rdococ> ais523: that might work in place of registers
00:36:42 <Alfie275> ais523: Yeah, I was thinking just as an idea
00:36:43 <ais523> rdococ: that's also what I was suggesting
00:36:49 <rdococ> ais523: ik
00:37:05 * rdococ wonders if he needs three registers
00:38:50 <Alfie275> You could just use a JUMP command I guess, where you just jump to that instruction number
00:38:52 <shachaf> Is there an esolang which implements control flow using flow control?
00:40:00 <Alfie275> Though expanding on the program as a rule idea, you could have the program be a rule that contains both instructions and any data, and then use matching against the data to do flow control and read off the instructions
00:40:25 <ais523> shachaf: I don't think so
00:40:37 <ais523> but one of my ideas on the back burner is an esolang that /only/ uses control codes
00:40:50 <ais523> and XON/XOFF for control flow is just the sort of thing that would fit perfectly in that
00:41:41 <Alfie275> Eg a command that matches the chosen rule against nearest data in the program rule, and then reads the command at a certain value (eg 0) and runs from there
00:42:01 <rdococ> hm
00:42:10 <rdococ> how would I perform I/O with registers being replaced
00:42:12 <rdococ> wait
00:42:14 <rdococ> I have an idea
00:45:56 <rdococ> hm
00:46:24 <rdococ> I'll have to keep one register.
00:47:32 <boily> `wisdom
00:47:36 <HackEgo> intercal//INTERCAL has excellent features for modular program for the enterprise market.
00:50:48 <quintopia> helloily
00:51:10 <rdococ> `wisdom
00:51:12 <HackEgo> patch//patch is the precursor to both perl and version control.
00:51:24 <quintopia> `wisdom
00:51:25 <HackEgo> the question//The The Question is the fundamental mystery of #esoteric, and boily is its master.
00:51:55 <quintopia> tell me the secrets boily
00:53:44 <rdococ> My language's examples are getting hard to follow in this upcoming edit
00:53:46 <shachaf> Surely boily has asked you the the question before.
00:54:40 <rdococ> `? question
00:54:41 <HackEgo> question? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:54:56 <rdococ> boily, what is the answer to the The Question?
00:55:02 <rdococ> I'm betting it's 42.
00:57:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51789&oldid=51788 * Rdococ * (+734) Whew.
00:58:12 <rdococ> I guess it's a good thing that my language is getting harder to understand, yet its concept is still simple. Also, now the slide rule can snap and break.
00:58:21 <Jafet> hm, I just exec'd a haskell source file and it didn't fail
00:58:35 <Jafet> oh, “import” is an imagemagick tool
00:59:07 <Jafet> I guess “type” and “where” are also shell builtins
01:00:23 <rdococ> I like my new language. It's cool.
01:00:49 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA!
01:01:13 <boily> helloochaf. quintopia is asked.
01:01:28 <boily> rdococ: it is not 42. there may be a 42, somewhere.
01:01:36 <rdococ> boily, is it the digits of e?
01:02:16 <shachaf> boily: https://www.google.com/maps?q=42.0,+42.0 hth
01:02:23 <shachaf> 42 kgs
01:02:27 <shachaf> s/s//
01:02:38 <shachaf> 42 is a scow number anyway
01:02:46 <rdococ> everyone knows 12 is better
01:03:33 <rdococ> also, a scow number would be M00.00 where M stands for -1 in balanced decimal.
01:03:51 <rdococ> scow
01:05:30 <boily> . o O ( what is a cow's endianness? )
01:06:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51790&oldid=51789 * Rdococ * (+201) /* Examples */ Simpler multiplication program
01:07:21 <rdococ> I took inspiration from the tape stick/cut/rolling idea on the list of ideas.
01:12:03 <rdococ> hm
01:12:05 <rdococ> flow control
01:12:34 <quintopia> boily: what is the current barycenter according to boily?
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01:26:25 <boily> quintopia: I'd say... somewhere in the midwest, probably a few klicks underground.
01:26:41 <boily> depends on lifthrasiir, really. he's the outlierest person.
01:26:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51791&oldid=51790 * Rdococ * (+29) /* Overview */
01:28:24 <lifthrasiir> :-O
01:28:46 <boily> sorry if it didn't come up right >_>'...
01:29:00 <boily> I meant you're far away.
01:29:19 <rdococ> lol.
01:29:41 <rdococ> hm
01:29:56 <rdococ> I'm thinking of how I would implement flow control
01:30:19 <rdococ> I could turn the IP into a section of its own
01:30:27 <rdococ> something you can slide, like ordinary scales
01:30:40 <rdococ> the program code would be attached to it
01:31:12 <rdococ> I also considered creating a graphical representation.
01:31:35 <rdococ> Tonight is a good night, nevertheless.
01:34:22 <boily> this is your night tonight everything's gonna be alright ♪
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01:43:24 <rdococ> hm
01:43:28 <rdococ> time to add more slides
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02:03:42 <lifthrasiir> boily: ah I am fine with that, I'm just wondering if I AM the outliest :?
02:05:46 <lifthrasiir> anyway, right now I'm around 37.48499,127.01621
02:05:56 <lifthrasiir> FYI*
02:06:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51792&oldid=51791 * Rdococ * (+533) /* Overview */ Added G and H.
02:09:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51793&oldid=51792 * Rdococ * (-435) /* Overview */ Removed G and replaced H with S, because you can compare numbers with subtraction & sign.
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02:10:21 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
02:10:23 <hppavilion[1]> 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 215, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315
02:11:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51794&oldid=51793 * Rdococ * (+81) /* Overview */ Readded G as floor. May be required for comparisons. x>y = floor((sgn(x-y)+1)/2), for example.
02:15:00 <boily> lifthrasiir: I confirm the outlyingity, as far as my data is reliable.
02:15:37 <shachaf> lifthrasiir is outlier than anyone else?
02:20:44 <rdococ> are you sure it's not me?
02:21:22 <shachaf> In what ways is lifthrasiir outly?
02:21:47 <boily> rdococ: what are your approximative geographic coördinates?
02:21:48 <shachaf> geographic co'ordinates and body weigh?
02:22:05 <quintopia> boily what were lifthrasiir's coördinates
02:22:08 <boily> only the ö, not the body weigh. we're all about the same.
02:22:23 <boily> quintopia: “37.48499,127.01621”, according to him.
02:22:45 <rdococ> ~53, ~0
02:22:51 <rdococ> that ~ is approx
02:22:52 <rdococ> not negative
02:22:58 <boily> 0? you sure?
02:23:13 <rdococ> 0 is my longitude
02:23:17 <shachaf> boily: you don't know my body weigh hth
02:23:24 <rdococ> so 0, 53 maybe?
02:23:27 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
02:23:28 <lambdabot> KOAK 190053Z 28011KT 10SM FEW020 17/12 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP201 T01720122
02:23:28 <rdococ> if longitude goes first
02:23:38 <shachaf> @metar KJFK
02:23:39 <boily> shachaf: yup! you're the rebarbativest of them all :D
02:23:39 <lambdabot> KJFK 190051Z 13009KT 10SM FEW250 09/06 A3049 RMK AO2 SLP324 T00940056
02:23:55 <quintopia> boily those coördinates have got soul
02:24:32 <rdococ> ö
02:24:35 <shachaf> https://www.google.com/maps?q=53%2C+0
02:24:40 <shachaf> cowbridge? more like scowbridge
02:25:07 <rdococ> shachaf: I'm not in cowbridge, I'm in the same country though.
02:25:24 <shachaf> country? more like scowntry
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02:25:34 <rdococ> -_[
02:25:36 <rdococ> -*
02:25:37 <quintopia> shachaf are you bearded?
02:26:00 <shachaf> I don't think so?
02:26:19 <quintopia> boily shachaf cant be rebarbative
02:26:26 <shachaf> @wn rebarbative
02:26:27 <lambdabot> *** "rebarbative" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
02:26:27 <lambdabot> rebarbative
02:26:27 <lambdabot> adj 1: serving or tending to repel; "he became rebarbative and
02:26:27 <lambdabot> prickly and spiteful"; "I find his obsequiousness
02:26:27 <lambdabot> repellent" [syn: {rebarbative}, {repellent}, {repellant}]
02:26:57 <boily> uuuh...
02:27:20 <quintopia> (from Old French re- + barbe (“barb”, “beard”) (from Latin barba (“beard”), literally “to stand beard to beard against”) + -atif (“-ative”).
02:27:20 <boily> not quite that, just uncoöperative. (with good reason, I must say.)
02:27:33 <boily> the word is French, indeed.
02:27:47 <rdococ> ë
02:27:51 <shachaf> i,i equivocative
02:27:54 <shachaf> is that a valid word
02:27:57 <shachaf> @wn equivocative
02:27:58 <lambdabot> No match for "equivocative".
02:27:59 <shachaf> @wn equivocate
02:28:00 <lambdabot> *** "equivocate" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
02:28:00 <lambdabot> equivocate
02:28:00 <lambdabot> v 1: be deliberately ambiguous or unclear in order to mislead or
02:28:00 <lambdabot> withhold information [syn: {beat around the bush},
02:28:00 <lambdabot> {equivocate}, {tergiversate}, {prevaricate}, {palter}]
02:28:00 <quintopia> you cant stand beard to beard with no beard
02:28:38 <boily> rdococ: if you want to use «ë» and «ï», you should learn French! a very good language!
02:28:50 <shachaf> tergiversate?
02:29:10 <boily> tergiverser est un bon mot pour les cabots.
02:29:39 <rdococ> boily: Or I could get into the habit of using it like you do, to distinguish word parts
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02:31:33 <shachaf> boily: vous êtes le cabot
02:32:04 <boily> ça se peut bien! la dernière fois que j'ai checké, j'avais assez de poil pour en être un.
02:32:54 <boily> (holy fungot... google translate got it perfectly right... the End of Times is Nigh.)
02:32:54 <fungot> boily: ( the " well, it's distinctive. i'll have to write two
02:33:19 <boily> it even got «checké».
02:33:20 <boily> I...
02:33:25 <boily> I can't even.
02:33:54 <shachaf> boily: the robots are taking our jobs tdnh
02:35:03 <boily> tdnhaa.
02:35:17 <boily> meanwhile, 'night all!
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02:54:09 <hppavilion[1]> hellø~œrjan
02:54:20 * hppavilion[1] wants a character for the øe ligature
02:54:28 <hppavilion[1]> øerjan
02:55:55 <rdococ> öerjan might fit
02:56:21 <shachaf> Are you sure you don't want the / going through the whole ligature?
02:56:25 <rdococ> s/öerjan/örjan/
02:56:29 <shachaf> There's a combining / that you could put over the oe ligature.
03:04:47 <rdococ> ö is used for both [ø] and [œ] in some languages
03:10:36 <oerjan> hppævellion[1]
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03:49:10 <rdococ> ihyna
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05:39:56 <\oren\> hold on a second wasn't there, at some point, somehting called "Froogle"?
05:43:25 <shachaf> Yes.
06:08:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Jot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51795&oldid=51779 * Oerjan * (-13) There's no way it's not pronounced like the synonym of "iota".
06:09:02 * oerjan barely resisted adding the quip, "happy s... oh, whoops"
06:09:27 <oerjan> but not mentioning it.
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06:11:58 <shachaf> s is never happy hth
06:12:19 <oerjan> shocking
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08:08:55 <int-e> @botsnack
08:08:55 <lambdabot> :)
08:10:45 <oerjan> `? equivocative
08:10:46 <HackEgo> equivocative? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
08:11:43 <int-e> today's xkcd is really big
08:12:13 <oerjan> and the other day so was dmm's dinosaur whiteboard. must be something infectious.
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08:13:06 <int-e> anyway, glad lambdabot came back on its own :)
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08:22:59 <Nistur> mornin' all
08:26:15 <shachaf> int-e: So in Monkey Island you need to carry some corrosive grog in pewter mugs.
08:41:08 <diginet> anyone here?
08:41:10 <diginet> I need to rant
08:42:54 <Nistur> a good rant is always helpful
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08:57:21 <int-e> shachaf: Right... they melt... but I never realized that they were supposed to be made of pewter? And you get many of those mugs anyway... oh well, whatever. This (getting stuck on a puzzle or two) tends to happen in all interesting adventure games.
08:59:17 <Nistur> I need to actually complete a Monkey Island game... I've played a lot of point and click adventures, but never played more than an hour or so of a Monkey Island
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09:46:32 <diginet> Express-orientation is a really stupid idea IMO, at least for non-functional languages
09:46:45 <diginet> it's almost certainly never what you want, and its popularity baffles me
09:53:53 <rdococ> depends what it is :P
09:54:08 <int-e> wtf is express-orientation
09:54:56 <rdococ> express-oriented programming?
09:55:03 <int-e> or rather, what does it have to do with programming.
09:57:28 <rdococ> it sounds express
09:57:44 <rdococ> . o O ( espresso orientation )
09:58:49 <rdococ> odd.
09:59:11 <rdococ> Wikipedia -> "declarative which does not state the order in which operations execute," <- in that definition, a language which executes its operations at random, but is otherwise imperative, would be declarative
10:11:46 <diginet> it's an anti-feature IMO
10:12:35 <diginet> it's why "if (x = 5) { [...]" works in C
10:13:04 <rdococ> it does?
10:13:08 <rdococ> oh
10:13:14 <rdococ> it doesn't do what you expect, I guess
10:13:35 <rdococ> I've read that assignment actually returns a value (and that value is even different from C to C++
10:14:06 <diginet> yes, in C every "statement" is really an expression
10:14:10 <diginet> associated with a value
10:14:18 <diginet> as opposed to Pascal-likes
10:14:22 <rdococ> honestly, for an imperative language, that is pretty cool
10:15:50 <diginet> it's dangerous
10:16:08 <diginet> the legitimate usages of this "feature" are minute compared to the possibilities for accidents or abuse
10:16:16 <rdococ> the irony of this
10:16:30 <rdococ> is that you're talking about a dangerous feature in #esoteric
10:17:06 <rdococ> but if the expression (x = 5) returns 5, I don't see the issue
10:17:16 <rdococ> ah
10:17:17 <rdococ> wait
10:19:09 <rdococ> . o O ( you have softlocks, what about hardlocks? )
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11:42:17 <boily> `wisdom
11:42:18 <HackEgo> sparkle//Sparkles are annoying visual artifacts that people try to use deliberately for decoration and artistic photographs and drawings.
11:45:22 <diginet> `wisdom
11:45:30 <diginet> I agree with this!
11:46:24 <boily> diginellot!
11:46:39 <boily> were you `relcomed?
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12:05:25 <diginet> I was not!
12:06:08 <boily> `relcome diginet
12:06:09 <HackEgo> diginet: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
12:09:47 <diginet> thanks!
12:09:52 <diginet> why is it "relcome" ?
12:10:15 <ais523> it's just `welcome normally
12:10:19 <ais523> but people made a bunch of silly variants
12:10:25 <ais523> the rainbow-coloured one is fairly popular
12:11:17 <Taneb> `wElcOme
12:11:17 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wElcOme: not found
12:11:22 <boily> it's a rainbowelcome.
12:11:26 <Taneb> Ah, that one doesn't exist any more
12:11:31 <boily> his523, Tanelle.
12:12:05 <boily> `` find bin/ -iname '*elcome*'
12:12:05 <HackEgo> bin/Welcome \ bin/wElCoMe \ bin/velcome \ bin/autowelcome \ bin/WELCOME \ bin/welcome \ bin/relcome \ bin/WeLcOmE \ bin/welcome \ bin/ReLcOmE \ bin/rwelcome \ bin/elcome
12:12:41 <Taneb> Oh, I must have typed it wrong
12:12:44 <Taneb> Probably a good thing
12:14:00 <diginet> ahhh
12:14:01 <diginet> I see
12:14:05 <diginet> well thanks
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13:21:19 <b_jonas> I have two dummy entries in the phonebook in my mobile phone whose names start with "A " so they're the first in the phonebook as it's listed, to avoid the problem when I accidentally dial someone with two keypresses just because he's name starts with an A. Am I the only one who does this?
14:06:09 <Taneb> Has anyone ever written a sed self-interpreter?
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14:06:43 <b_jonas> Taneb: probably no. at least not a non-cheating one (one that doesn't just invoke sed or perl or something as an external command)
14:06:50 <b_jonas> it would be very difficult to write one.
14:07:08 <sdhand> The question is if it's actually impossible
14:07:29 <b_jonas> sdhand: that's a question of how you define sed and self-interpreter. I think it's possible if you define them properly.
14:08:23 <sdhand> Hmm
14:08:31 <b_jonas> but it would be horribly complicated, because sed is both a difficult language to implement (you'd need at least some of a regex engine, enough to run itself) and awkward to program in
14:08:55 <sdhand> That's sorta the point
14:09:47 <b_jonas> the point of obfu/eso-programming is to have fun. this wouldn't be fun, I think
14:10:16 <Taneb> b_jonas, fun may vary to taste
14:10:23 <Taneb> It's certainly a challenge
14:10:44 <b_jonas> have you even ever written a regex engine (not even one with alternatives or posix-correct first longest capture match choice rule, just a simple one with captures and star and bracket-charsets) in any language?
14:11:21 <Taneb> You have a point
14:12:24 <b_jonas> I mean, maybe you could write this one even simpler than that, like one that doesn't backtrack between bracket-charset-stars, but still, it's ugly.
14:13:14 <b_jonas> it's especially ugly if you have to make it so that the interpreter can handle all bytes in the text and regexen except newline, or at least all the bytes that it itself needs for correct interpreting
14:14:05 <b_jonas> though I guess you could cheat by reserving like eight or sixteen bytes and transliterating the characters up by that much in the text, because given how slow this would be, nobody would notice that it breaks after ten nesting levels
14:14:44 <b_jonas> anyway, you're welcome to try if you want
14:21:34 <sdhand> I certainly shall (and likely give up very quickly)
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15:02:09 <fizzie> Hmm. There's a unicorn in the lobby.
15:02:42 <Nistur> is it one of the ones which invaded Dundee?
15:04:10 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/unicorn.jpg (from four floors up)
15:05:03 <Nistur> I don't want to make assumptions... but what are the chances that has... um... 'access' under the tail?
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17:42:14 <hppavilion[1]> Well
17:42:32 <\oren\> it's fucking "a historic victory" pronounce your H's properly you uncouth swine
17:42:43 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: ...
17:42:44 <\oren\> it's not "an historic victory"
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17:42:48 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: HALLELLUJAH!
17:42:55 <hppavilion[1]> (...no pun intended)
17:43:52 <hppavilion[1]> I just wrote myself a snazzy new command line tool called "weigh" that gives me the size of a file or directory (because ls didn't seem to work properly), and one folder on my desktop is supposedly 224.51 GiB
17:45:06 <Nistur> hppavilion[1]: on linux?
17:45:24 <hppavilion[1]> Nistur: Windows; ls is in Cygwin
17:45:47 <Nistur> does `du` not work?
17:45:58 <Nistur> du -s someDirectory
17:46:02 <Nistur> or
17:46:08 <Nistur> du -sh someDirectory
17:46:09 <hppavilion[1]> Nistur: Though, the program I wrote should work on any OS where os.path.*, os.listdir, and os.getcwd are properly implemented
17:46:16 <hppavilion[1]> Nistur: ...I didn't try that
17:46:17 <sdhand> in what way was ls not working?
17:47:09 <hppavilion[1]> sdhand: It seems like it might just not detect Windows directories properly except in normal listing (it doesn't list details). But I'm not asking for help, I have a program to do it now :P
17:47:17 <hppavilion[1]> Nistur: (Oh, it's in Python if I didn't mention it)
17:47:26 <Nistur> I assumed it would be :P
17:47:37 <Nistur> and you don't even need -s
17:47:42 <Nistur> du someDirectory
17:47:46 <Nistur> or for human readable
17:47:49 <Nistur> du -h someDirectory
17:47:57 <sdhand> hppavilion[1]: oh weird
17:48:05 <sdhand> I'm not really out to help, just curios
17:48:12 <sdhand> wow that's not how that word is spelt
17:48:20 <Nistur> sdhand: close enough :P
17:48:29 <hppavilion[1]> Nistur: Good to know
17:49:27 <Nistur> hppavilion[1]: I went through a phase of writing little tools... but then realising that 99.99% of the little tools I was writing already existed :P
17:49:47 <Nistur> I didn't use python though because I have this itchy feeling whenever I have to write it
17:50:00 <hppavilion[1]> Nistur: Yeah :P
17:50:27 <sdhand> I don't really enjoy python
17:50:37 <sdhand> it makes small things like that easy to do tho, which I guess is the point
17:50:46 <Nistur> yeah
17:51:09 <Nistur> the main thing which it has going for it... um... it reminds me of that java (I think it was java) quote
17:51:31 <Nistur> https://i.imgur.com/t6qAhNc.jpg
17:52:07 <Nistur> no comment about the validity of the second part of the quote, but it always comes to mind :P
17:52:50 <Nistur> (original quote was probably from bash.org: http://bash.org/?338364 but I found the image first)
17:53:27 <Nistur> anyway, I'm done banging my head against these problems. Home time methinks
17:53:28 <sdhand> I mean
17:53:33 <sdhand> they've got a point
17:53:34 <sdhand> :^)
17:58:44 <\oren\> I prefer perl to python
17:58:59 <\oren\> I don't like significant indentation
17:59:01 <Nistur> yay perl, for when you need a write only language :D
17:59:11 <Nistur> \oren\: that's pretty much the main reason why I dislike python :P
17:59:22 <\oren\> python would be fine if they would get with the program and use {}
18:00:16 <Nistur> or use sexpressions. That'd be acceptable too
18:00:20 <sdhand> write a pre-processor for it ;p
18:00:30 <sdhand> I don't care too much about syntax
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19:03:21 <hppavilion[1]> ...
19:03:21 <hppavilion[1]> I JUST got the pun built into "corn maze" after being outright told. I'm an idiot.
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20:01:23 <Taneb> I... I have a Haskell exam tomorrow morning
20:01:46 <shachaf> What is it about?
20:02:03 <Taneb> Haskell
20:02:14 <shachaf> Are you examining or being examined?
20:02:34 <Taneb> The latter
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20:09:18 <Taneb> It's something that doesn't feel real
20:09:32 <Taneb> I guess I'd like to thank this channel for getting me into Haskell like seven years ago
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20:58:24 <\oren\> hmm, looks like rust integers are fundamentally broken in the same way as c integers
20:59:23 <sdhand> \oren\: how are C intergers broken?
21:00:01 <\oren\> that 0x7FFFFFFF + 1 is undefined
21:00:40 <shachaf> Is that true?
21:00:45 <shachaf> http://huonw.github.io/blog/2016/04/myths-and-legends-about-integer-overflow-in-rust/ says it's a myth.
21:00:53 <shachaf> "in release mode, overflow is not checked and is specified to wrap as two’s complement."
21:01:33 <\oren\> hold on what
21:01:58 <\oren\> the language specification differs when -O is passed?
21:02:16 <\oren\> jesus
21:02:20 <shachaf> This sounds more like -DNDEBUG
21:02:23 <int-e> Well that's still far better than C's undefined behavior.
21:02:41 <shachaf> "in debug mode, arithmetic (+, -, etc.) on signed and unsigned primitive integers is checked for overflow, panicking if it occurs, and,"
21:03:13 <int-e> (which has led to really dangerous optimizations by gcc at least)
21:04:01 <\oren\> -O changes the actual behaviour of a program, that is so wrong
21:04:31 <shachaf> Debug/release is not -O
21:04:47 <\oren\> shachaf: are you sure
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21:04:57 <shachaf> Pretty sure?
21:04:58 <Taneb> \oren\, it's checked on debug mode, wrapping on release
21:05:05 <shachaf> Maybe I'm not sure.
21:05:11 <shachaf> OK, I'm not sure, I know nothing about Rust.
21:06:08 <\oren\> shachaf: well, from tests, it appears that -O makes it do wrapping
21:06:26 <int-e> (the C standard allows a compiler to optimize x+y < x to y < 0 if x and y are of type int; it sounds like Rust doesn't do that.)
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21:06:33 <Taneb> \oren\, the idea being, when you're debugging you want to find integer overflows
21:06:34 <shachaf> OK.
21:06:52 <Taneb> But when it's released you want it as fast as possible, and wrapping is what makes that happen on Rust's target architectures
21:07:23 <\oren\> Taneb: is there a "compile fast but have conistent semantics" mode?
21:09:02 <\oren\> or perhaps a "i8withwrap" type?
21:10:15 <Taneb> There is a one of those
21:10:21 <Taneb> Give me a sec
21:10:52 <Taneb> \oren\, https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/num/struct.Wrapping.html
21:11:22 <\oren\> Cool
21:12:23 <\oren\> I still don't think -O should disable the warning for "127i8+1"
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21:24:25 <\oren\> println!("{}",Wrapping(127i8)+1); still fails miserably
21:26:25 <\oren\> it claims that noone bothered to implement the + operator in this case
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21:34:17 <\oren\> geez, this Wrapping<> thing is really incomplete
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21:46:01 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh
21:46:08 <hppavilion[1]> I'm writing Python and I just created a singleton class
21:46:22 <hppavilion[1]> Forgive me \oren\ for I have sinned
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23:22:01 <rdococ> /\
23:22:04 <rdococ> er
23:22:22 <rdococ> /\
23:22:22 <rdococ> /\/\ activating the binary-treeforce :P
23:22:30 <rdococ> (if you use a monospaced font)
23:23:18 <rdococ> /\
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23:26:35 <ais523> it actually works in my proportional font too
23:26:41 <ais523> looks like / and space happen to be the same width
23:27:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rule]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51796&oldid=51794 * Rdococ * (+137) /* Squaration */ ''simpler''
23:28:20 <rdococ> (or ais523's font)
23:33:36 <rdococ> ais523: how do you think flow control should be implemented in a language that operates on a slide rule?
23:34:08 <ais523> probably as simply as possible, there's no obvious way to tie it into the storage
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23:34:13 <ais523> unless, I guess, the program's written on one of the rules?
23:34:17 <ais523> and you can slide it to move the IP aroudn
23:34:20 <ais523> *around
23:34:29 <rdococ> I actually did have that idea, funnily enough.
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23:57:44 <\oren\> /\
23:57:49 <\oren\> /\/\
23:59:38 <rdococ> /\
23:59:38 <rdococ> /\/\ TRIFORCE!
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