←2017-05-26 2017-05-27 2017-05-28→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:02:07 <shachaf> `5 w
00:02:12 <HackEgo> 1/2:nitia//nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her. \ absolute value//The absolute value of a number, also known as its cosign, is its distance from zero regardless of direction. It shouldn't be negative, but Sgeo is trying to break maths. \ #programming//No such channel. See `? #esoteric \ potatoes//You are not allowed
00:02:17 <shachaf> `n
00:02:17 <HackEgo> 2/2:to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit. \ grue//grue is the colour of the trees and the ocean
00:02:35 <shachaf> `dowg potatoes
00:02:44 <HackEgo> 10653:2017-04-13 <oerjän> ` cd wisdom; sed -i \'s/ $//\' `grwp -l \' $\' | grep -v rules` \ 8889:2016-08-02 <b_jonäs> slashlearn potatoes/You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
00:03:06 <shachaf> `? rules
00:03:07 <HackEgo> rules? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:03:13 <shachaf> `? rules of wisdom
00:03:13 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry's humor, they should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced with no space at the end, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
00:03:16 <fizzie> I don't know what to think. I like most of it, but it does feel like it'd prefer everything to be in a single repository.
00:03:22 <fizzie> For example, if you do thing A and thing B, and they both would like to use thing C, and then you'd like to share all your things, I'm not sure how that would best work.
00:03:27 <fizzie> You can put things A, B and C each in its own workspace, and use WORKSPACE rules. But if you use local_repository, you can't check that in to version control, because the paths would make no sense. And if you use http_archive, you'd have to publish all changes of C before getting them in A or B.
00:03:34 <fizzie> I guess you could have a checked-in WORKSPACE using http_archive, and a local branch or some-such that uses local_repository instead, but local customizations like that are always so fiddly to use.
00:03:49 <shachaf> fizzie is a fast typist
00:03:56 <fizzie> I pre-typed.
00:04:01 <shachaf> You mean, how that would work in the open-source world?
00:04:08 <fizzie> Right.
00:04:21 <shachaf> I think it wouldn't, as-is.
00:04:52 <shachaf> There are various tricky questions you'd need to answer before you could effectively use a system in a context like that.
00:05:13 <shachaf> (But there are also all sorts of orthogonal ideas you could import that most build systems don't have for some reason.)
00:05:16 <fizzie> Also I guess there's that thing where other people have different kind of systems, and maybe you'd do some sort of autoconfy/cmakey things, and I don't think Bazel really does that sort of stuff.
00:05:43 <zzo38> I have not needed build systems.
00:05:59 <shachaf> classic zzo38
00:06:42 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you like Google Search?
00:07:55 <shachaf> Bazel cares about reproducible builds a lot. Maybe more than is feasible in a non-monorepo world?
00:08:22 <zzo38> I don't really like Google Search so much, with all of its various problems and that stuff
00:09:05 <shachaf> Maybe you would like it more if they presented an interface over Gopher.
00:09:41 <zzo38> That isn't really the problem though. (For gopher search you can as well using Veronica.)
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00:17:12 <shachaf> `5 w
00:17:17 <HackEgo> 1/2:itymology//Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement. \ deniability//Deniability was not invented by Taneb. \ pokemon red//Pokemon Red is a low-level handheld programming language disguised as a game, allowing you to execute arbitrary code from anywhere. \ primative//A primative is a reference to a valu
00:17:23 <shachaf> `n
00:17:24 <HackEgo> 2/2:e that you were robbed of. \ marmite//Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth.
00:18:17 <shachaf> oerjan: imo primative should be either fixed or forgotten
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00:36:46 <oerjan> `dowg primative
00:36:54 <HackEgo> 6027:2015-09-23 <boil̈y> learn A primative is a reference to a value that you were robbed of.
00:42:31 <oerjan> we may have to ask boily what it means.
00:42:43 <oerjan> @ask boily what does `? primative mean?
00:42:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:43:03 <oerjan> `` grwp invent | grep not
00:43:08 <shachaf> is it a pun on "primate" and "primitive"?
00:43:17 <shachaf> that could be good but i can't make head nor tails of it
00:43:20 <HackEgo> a:A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters. \ bdsm:BDSM definitely isn't a kind of LARP and Taneb definitely did not invent it. \ cocoa:A is a village in Norway. The BBC invented it by not understanding things on top of letters. \ deniability:Deniability was not invented by Taneb. \ denial:Sorry, b
00:43:23 <oerjan> neither can i.
00:43:33 <oerjan> `2 grwp invent | grep not
00:43:35 <HackEgo> 2/7:enial:Sorry, but we don't know anything about denial. Taneb most definitely did not invent it. \ fundamental theorem of taneb:The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists
00:44:04 <shachaf> `n
00:44:04 <HackEgo> 3/7:a string T that describes a thing that Taneb did not invent. \ masochism:Masochism (where the <ch> is pronounced as [x]) is when somebody voluntarily does natural language processing for German. Taneb did not invent it, according to clerical records. \ metronome:A metronome is an ancient and highly sophisticated instrument typically u
00:44:32 <shachaf> I don't follow that theorem.
00:44:36 <shachaf> `cwlprits fundamental theorem of taneb
00:44:43 <HackEgo> tsweẗt
00:45:06 <shachaf> tswett: that makes no sense please invent a better fundamental theorem that would help thanks in advance
00:45:46 <oerjan> shachaf: it implies that Tanebventions are omega-inconsistent hth
00:46:41 <oerjan> `slwd fundamental theorem of taneb//s,thing,thing not involving sex,
00:46:43 <HackEgo> fundamental theorem of taneb//The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing not involving sex, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing that Taneb did not invent.
00:47:59 <oerjan> hm now that is missing from T, making the theorem trivial.
00:48:41 <zzo38> Feynman's Trivial Theorem: It's trivial! It's trivial!
00:49:32 <oerjan> `slwd fundamental theorem of taneb//s,thing that,thing not involving sex that,
00:49:34 <HackEgo> fundamental theorem of taneb//The Fundamental Theorem of Taneb states that for all strings S, if S describes a thing not involving sex, then it is provable that Taneb invented the thing described by S; and, furthermore, that it is provable that there exists a string T that describes a thing not involving sex that Taneb did not invent.
00:49:52 <shachaf> I don't understand.
00:50:17 <oerjan> which part hth
00:50:31 <zzo38> I am not sure how such a thing is possible, but I may have missed something
00:50:44 <shachaf> "forall S, thing(S) -> Taneb(S)", and also "exists S, thing(S) and not Taneb(S)"?
00:50:55 <oerjan> the proofs are, of course, non-constructive.
00:50:56 <shachaf> I agree with zzo38 on this matter.
00:51:08 <oerjan> shachaf: the second proof is of a false theorem.
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00:51:38 <int-e> `grwp incon
00:51:38 <zzo38> O, that's how it works. Then it isn't a very good proof, isn't it?
00:51:39 <HackEgo> segmentation fault:The Segmentation Fault is just of the Silicon Valley and is known to produce various hiccups at the most inconvienent times. \ אrjan:אrjan is oerjan's first uncountable twin. He's inconsistent with the ZFC axioms.
00:51:42 <oerjan> you really should look up omega-inconsistency.
00:53:08 <zzo38> I did look up omega-inconsistency in Wikipedia.
00:53:50 <shachaf> Which web browser did you use to do it?
00:53:57 <int-e> oh, non-standard strings... fancy
00:54:17 <zzo38> Firefox (although with many of my own customizations applied, as well as other extensions)
00:55:39 <int-e> oerjan: perhaps the entry is too wise if it has to be explained.
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00:56:56 <oerjan> no such thing hth
00:58:37 <zzo38> However I think that there is problem of all of the web browser program these day anyways, I should think new one will be needed, which can be the "paranoid web browser" (or the "wwwparanoia"). It can to assume the user knows what they are doing (so don't try to overrride them), but that the stuff coming from the server may potentially be malicious and/or incompetent.
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01:00:04 <oerjan> ais523's big polyglot challenge keeps churning
01:00:28 <zzo38> What is ais523's big polyglot challenge?
01:00:59 <oerjan> https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/102370/add-a-language-to-a-polyglot/123028#123028
01:01:17 <oerjan> they just added the 65th language
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01:06:26 <zzo38> I invented a polyglot in SQL and C, but I would not know how to add anything into that program, considering using many kind of programming languages that I do not know how to program.
01:10:09 <oerjan> i think lately it has been mostly the same users who keep adding new ones, except the previous one was by a newcomer to the challenge.
01:10:56 <oerjan> so there may be about four people now, they also have a chat channel to help each others get past sticky points.
01:11:03 <oerjan> *-s
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01:20:30 <zzo38> Why does DEFLATE compression involve some unused codes?
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01:35:43 <zzo38> The way that LodePNG makes the LZ77 encoding is not like the way I think would seem better to me. The way I would represent it internally is to use a array of 16-bit numbers, where 0 means a literal code, and nonzero indicates that this number is a length and then the next number is the distance; the length number is then the amount to skip from that point in order to read the next code. It seem to me that this would make it easier to do the kinds
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01:37:11 <zzo38> (Because the length has to be at least 3 for DEFLATE, conflicts cannot occur.)
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03:43:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Klein]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52013 * Wheatwizard * (+2951) Created page with "Klein is a 2D esoteric language with flexible topology designed by Stack Exchange user [https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/56656/ Wheat wizard]. == Surfaces == Current..."
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05:36:20 <shachaf> @quote ddarius
05:36:20 <lambdabot> ddarius says: < ddarius> xtalmath: #math or #not-math would probably be a more appropriate place to ask. < shachaf> ddarius: Those two channels pretty much cover it all. < ddarius> shachaf: You're
05:36:20 <lambdabot> clearly not an intuitionist.
05:36:43 <shachaf> @quote ddarius use
05:36:43 <lambdabot> ddarius says: firefly: I am not in the school of making a language cater to beginners at the expense of experienced users.
05:36:51 <shachaf> hmm
05:36:59 <shachaf> @quote ddarius right
05:36:59 <lambdabot> ddarius says: "use the right platitude for the job"
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06:23:28 <shachaf> fizzie: imo you should expose your prometheus endpoint publicly twh
06:24:16 <oerjan> . o O ( that sounds like a bit of a euphemism )
06:31:53 <shachaf> oerjan: please swat yourself twh
06:33:31 * oerjan applies the swatter in a vihta-like manner -----###
06:35:20 <shachaf> `5 w
06:35:25 <HackEgo> 1/2:welcome.is//Halló og verið velkomin á hinn alþjóðlegann miðpunkt fyrir esoteríska forritunarmálshönnun og dreifingu. Meiri upplýsingar er hægt að nálgast á wikinu <http://esolangs.org/>. (Fyrir annarskonar esoterík prufið #esoteric á EFnet eða DALnet.) \ gazspaczo//gazspaczo iz a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerv
06:35:31 <shachaf> `n
06:35:31 <HackEgo> 2/2:ed cold for hot szummer dayz \ extreme irony//Extreme irony is what happens when you get a Darwin award for extreme ironing. \ tab//Tab is both a computer keyboard key and a soda pop brand. \ we//We are the champions.
06:35:55 <pikhq> Hmm. I think we need an Old English welcome.
06:36:02 <shachaf> Good afternikhq
06:36:10 <shachaf> Are you still universitting?
06:36:15 <pikhq> Indeed.
06:36:30 <shachaf> Are you going to move back to silly valley?
06:36:43 <zzo38> Do you know how to write Old English?
06:36:43 <pikhq> That will be a function of its silliness.
06:36:48 <pikhq> zzo38: No.
06:36:54 <shachaf> What about Latin?
06:37:02 <zzo38> Then you must learn. And then you can write the Old English welcome.
06:37:15 <oerjan> `? latin
06:37:16 <pikhq> shachaf: Mi ne skribelas.
06:37:31 <shachaf> zzo38: You could hire someone who knows how to write Old English instead.
06:37:36 <shachaf> `dowg latin
06:37:44 <HackEgo> 10208:2017-02-05 <oerjän> slwd latin//s/U/V/g \ 7344:2016-04-01 <oerjän> ` mv wisdom/latin{a,}
06:38:13 <zzo38> I don't know anyone who does.
06:38:24 <pikhq> Nihongo dake.
06:38:33 <oerjan> just find an old englishman, duh
06:38:46 <zzo38> He is dead.
06:39:20 <oerjan> well if they killed off the old englishmen, then obviously you cannot learn old english.
06:40:02 <shachaf> mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun
06:40:02 <zzo38> No I think they are dead from aging
06:40:04 <pikhq> There are plenty of people with a moderate clue about the language.
06:40:12 <shachaf> mad pooches
06:40:32 <zzo38> Do you know how to write in Latin though?
06:40:49 <pikhq> Granted, one may have an easier time finding fluent Klingon speakers than Old English speakers.
06:41:03 <shachaf> zzo38: I think you just write in all uppercase and replace U with V
06:41:06 <pikhq> zzo38: I do not.
06:41:57 <shachaf> Well, obviously you have to write the right uppercase letters too.
06:42:29 <pikhq> ライク・ズィッス?
06:43:15 <oerjan> *CVM
06:43:33 <oerjan> oh, i forgot the -QVE
06:43:49 <pikhq> REPLACENDQVE?
06:43:50 <oerjan> *REPLACENDISQVE
06:43:56 <pikhq> :)
06:44:29 <shachaf> oerjan is the scribest
06:44:38 <shachaf> in fact he needs to be described a little bit
06:45:02 <pikhq> I've come to the conclusion I possess far too few citizenships.
06:45:10 <pikhq> It's a shame they're rather tricky to obtain.
06:45:12 <shachaf> How many?
06:45:15 <oerjan> are you stateless
06:45:29 * oerjan has only one afahk
06:46:00 <pikhq> I'm a citizen of the United States, and of Colorado.
06:46:07 <pikhq> oerjan: You're also a European citizen, I believe.
06:46:08 <shachaf> as far as helsinki knows?
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06:46:22 <shachaf> pikhq: What's a citizen of Colorado?
06:47:04 <shachaf> oh, as far as harald knows
06:47:06 <shachaf> makes sense
06:47:21 <pikhq> In essence, in the states you kinda-sorta have a simultaneous citizenship status with the state you reside in.
06:47:41 <shachaf> Is this distinct from being a resident?
06:47:47 <pikhq> Not meaningfully.
06:48:01 <shachaf> Let's see. I live in California now. What would happen if I moved outside the US?
06:48:12 <pikhq> You would retain your California citizenship.
06:48:21 <oerjan> pikhq: europe counts as a citizenship?
06:48:23 <shachaf> I'd continue filing federal tax returns with the IRS. Would I be required ro do anything involving CA taxes as well?
06:48:40 <pikhq> shachaf: I don't think so.
06:48:53 <pikhq> oerjan: Oh, wait, you're not a European citizen.
06:49:00 <shachaf> What about voting in CA elections?
06:49:02 <oerjan> aww
06:49:06 <pikhq> oerjan: You're in a Schengen country, not an EU country.
06:49:25 <shachaf> According to the pikhq system, you're a Schengen citizen, and also a Trondheim citizen.
06:49:32 <shachaf> And a #esoteric citizen.
06:49:35 <pikhq> shachaf: You'd continue to vote in CA elections as though you lived where you last lived in CA.
06:49:35 <oerjan> i'm a european quasitizen
06:49:46 <pikhq> shachaf: State citizenship is a legally recognized thing in the US.
06:49:48 <shachaf> california taxes are p. high #scow
06:50:53 <pikhq> Mostly as a legacy of the days when it was "the United States are ...", granted.
06:51:25 <shachaf> Why does state income tax vary so much?
06:51:57 <pikhq> Same reason national income taxes vary so much.
06:52:26 <shachaf> What's the reason?
06:52:28 <zzo38> My GURPS character Ziveruskex is know Latin, but only reading/writing Latin and not speeching Latin. But it is fictional character I cannot ask them how to write in Latin. Even in All The Tropes wiki says Smart People Know Latin.
06:52:48 <zzo38> shachaf: Because the government wants to earn a lot of money.
06:53:00 <pikhq> Different budgetary requirements, as well as different choices of ways to meet them.
06:53:25 <shachaf> Does WA have a lower budgetary requirement than CA, or does it meet it in a different way?
06:53:43 <pikhq> Different way.
06:54:09 <pikhq> Washington has a state-wide sales tax, and much higher property taxes.
06:54:51 <shachaf> CA has a state-wide sales tax too.
06:55:00 <shachaf> In fact the rate is higher than WA's?
06:55:11 <pikhq> Huh, so it is.
06:55:36 <pikhq> Though the net effective tax rate is higher, as municipalities in WA are more likely to heap on top of that.
06:56:19 <shachaf> Also I spend way more money on income tax than on sales tax.
06:56:29 <shachaf> I suppose that's related to income tax being progressive.
06:56:30 <pikhq> Yes, sales tax is a regressive tax.
06:57:00 <shachaf> I remember sales tax being similar when I lived in WA and when I lived in CA.
06:57:08 <shachaf> But I never looked carefully.
06:57:09 <zzo38> No, the reason is because the government wants to earn a lot of money.
06:57:24 <pikhq> CA in part has the massive problem that property taxes are *really* low in CA relative to local property values.
06:57:49 <shachaf> would you say prop 13 is the scow of props
06:58:06 <pikhq> California also, admittedly, runs some politically popular but quite pricy programs.
06:58:16 <pikhq> I would say that, yes.
06:58:43 <shachaf> but then what would you say about prop 8 hth
06:58:54 <pikhq> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_and_local_taxes_Per_capita_by_type.png Apparently, the effective tax rate in CA is actually quite low.
06:58:55 <shachaf> imo there are all sorts of scow props
06:59:19 <pikhq> I wonder how the fuck they're getting those figures, actually.
06:59:30 <pikhq> Is CA income tax *super* progressive or something?
06:59:43 <pikhq> I know its top marginal rate is highest in the country...
07:00:25 <shachaf> It seems relatively high even at lower brackets, https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator#income-tax
07:01:13 <shachaf> whoa, CA is way down there in your graph
07:01:31 <pikhq> Oh, that graph is using the interesting assumption that it's trying to measure effective income tax rate for a person with $54,286 annual income.
07:02:40 <pikhq> For a married couple filing jointly that would give a marginal rate of 4%.
07:03:00 <pikhq> (and 9.3% for a single filer)
07:04:01 <shachaf> But only a few thousand dollars would be at that rate.
07:04:11 <pikhq> Yes.
07:04:15 <pikhq> Marginal taxing.
07:04:37 <shachaf> filing jointly has been permitted since prop 64 was passed
07:04:49 <pikhq> :P
07:05:13 <pikhq> Seems like as though other states have remarkably less progressive marginal tax schemes, where they have income taxation.
07:06:07 <shachaf> I should do my taxes.
07:06:34 <pikhq> I find it rather ridiculous the US charges income taxes on world-wide income...
07:08:43 <shachaf> Ugh, figuring out my taxes is scow.
07:09:40 <shachaf> Maybe I'll wait until Oct 14
07:11:53 <shachaf> pikhq: Why is WA sales tax so much higher in that graph than CA sales tax?
07:13:28 <shachaf> Why does CA tax dividends and capital gains at the same rate as regular income?
07:14:39 <pikhq> I have no idea.
07:17:41 <pikhq> CA does not tax automobile sales at the full sales tax rate, WA does.
07:17:51 <pikhq> I suspect that does it.
07:18:13 <shachaf> I would be surprised.
07:18:46 <pikhq> Oh. *Oh*.
07:19:20 <pikhq> There's another big one. The *effective* sales tax rate in WA is higher on average because every county and municipality in WA adds a sales tax.
07:19:25 <pikhq> While in CA only some do.
07:19:31 <pikhq> Such as... the entire Bay Area.
07:21:49 <shachaf> The orange bar in WA is just so much bigger.
07:22:09 <pikhq> I have a suspicion some of the source data is suspect.
07:22:22 <pikhq> Because something's not quite adding up.
07:22:27 <shachaf> it's automatically suspect by the fact that you have a suspicion hth
07:22:32 <pikhq> :)
07:23:22 <pikhq> But, yeah. I can believe effective sales tax rate is generally larger in WA, but I'm not sure where it's getting that effective sales + income tax is larger in WA than CA.
07:23:54 <pikhq> Unless there's, like, substantially more exemptions to sales taxes on generally-needed goods in CA than in WA?
07:24:27 <pikhq> But WA isn't one of the states that taxes groceries, so...
07:26:20 * pikhq scratches head
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12:58:37 <fizzie> Finally made that wiki-2-irc gateway autostart with a systemd thing: http://sprunge.us/IfbX
12:58:43 <fizzie> Let me know if it no longer works.
12:58:45 <fizzie> Which is quite possible.
13:20:03 <int-e> that setup looks a bit more fun than the lambdabot one (which is just socat + lambdabot, inside a screen)
13:20:49 <int-e> and one line (su - lambda run/setup-screen-session) in rc.local to get it off ground on reboots
13:23:14 <fizzie> int-e: The setup was: http://sprunge.us/UdVK
13:23:24 <fizzie> Should probably be an "exec" in front of the chroot.
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16:00:13 <zzo38> The book I have it describe "dynamic dictionary" compression schemes, which is a kind of generalization of LZW it look like. The normal LZW algorithm will be FC-FREEZE, although there are other possibilities. Wikipedia describes variants such as LZMW (ID-FREEZE), and "Miller and Wegman also suggest deleting low frequency entries from the dictionary when the dictionary fills up" (this is ID-LFU).
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18:59:44 <fizzie> Seen from the bus window: a shop selling "fast internet cartridges" -- https://zem.fi/tmp/internet_cartridge.jpg
18:59:53 <fizzie> You can also get an access refill.
19:10:53 <Taneb> Sounds like just what I need
19:14:36 <zzo38> Now my PNG encoder program has possibility to copy safe chunks from another PNG file, and also has possibility to specify gamma setting (which adds a "gAMA" chunk, and does not alter the contents of the picture).
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23:46:18 <zzo38> What functions do you think I should add into my collection of programs to deal with pictures?
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