←2017-06-13 2017-06-14 2017-06-15→ ↑2017 ↑all
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00:34:29 <oerjan> @tell moony obviously you haven't seen the answers for https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/57257/radiation-hardened-quine
00:34:29 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:36:00 <kerbal> lambdabot @tell
00:36:05 <kerbal> @tell
00:36:05 <lambdabot> Who should I tell?
00:36:12 <kerbal> oerjan
00:36:24 <kerbal> @tell oerjan hello
00:36:24 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:36:32 <kerbal> What does that do?
00:36:54 <oerjan> @messages-flood
00:36:54 <lambdabot> kerbal said 29s ago: hello
00:37:09 <oerjan> @tell kerbal hi there!
00:37:09 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:37:21 <kerbal> @messages-flood
00:37:21 <lambdabot> oerjan said 12s ago: hi there!
00:37:25 <kerbal> Cool
00:42:22 <kerbal> @help
00:42:23 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
00:42:27 <kerbal> @list
00:42:27 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
00:42:31 <kerbal> @listmodules
00:42:31 <lambdabot> activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search
00:42:32 <lambdabot> slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
00:42:41 <kerbal> @help hoogle
00:42:41 <lambdabot> hoogle <expr>. Haskell API Search for either names, or types.
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00:47:27 <oerjan> @hoogle a -> b -> a
00:47:27 <lambdabot> Prelude const :: a -> b -> a
00:47:27 <lambdabot> Data.Function const :: a -> b -> a
00:47:27 <lambdabot> CorePrelude const :: a -> b -> a
00:48:20 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
00:48:20 <lambdabot> ENVA 132320Z 28010KT 9999 SCT019 BKN027 12/10 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 29010KT
00:48:25 <oerjan> STILL HUMID
00:48:38 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
00:49:03 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
00:49:03 <lambdabot> CYYZ 132300Z 35008KT 15SM FEW030 SCT075 SCT240 23/16 A2999 RMK CU2AC1CI1 SLP156 DENSITY ALT 1600FT
00:53:12 <kerbal> You people really thought of everything...
00:53:27 <kerbal> I'm working on a bot for #esoteric, if you don't mind
00:53:48 <kerbal> It will be able to interpret Integ, a language I designed
00:54:03 <kerbal> Do I have to get approval first?
00:54:25 <\oren\> we just kick bots if their anoying
00:54:28 <kerbal> Ah
00:54:50 <\oren\> and we feed them @botsnacks if they're good
00:54:54 <\oren\> @botsnack
00:54:55 <lambdabot> :)
00:55:19 <kerbal> !botsnack
00:55:34 <kerbal> That functionality specific to lambdabot? :)
00:55:44 <kerbal> That's so cool
00:55:48 <\oren\> hmm, not sure which bots support it
00:56:00 <\oren\> `botsnack
00:56:01 <HackEgo> ​>:-D
00:56:01 <oerjan> `botsnack
00:56:02 <HackEgo> ​>:-D
00:56:07 <oerjan> ^botsnack
00:56:07 <fungot> Oh nom nom nom!
00:56:33 <kerbal> Are there any other functions that are implemented by most or many bots?
00:57:06 <oerjan> `help
00:57:06 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
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00:57:24 <oerjan> ^echo hi
00:57:24 <fungot> hi hi
00:57:32 <oerjan> @echo hi
00:57:32 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo hi"]}
00:57:32 <lambdabot> target:#esoteric rest:"hi"
00:57:38 <oerjan> `echo hi
00:57:38 <HackEgo> hi
00:57:50 <oerjan> [ echo hi
00:57:51 <j-bot> oerjan: echo hi
00:58:08 <\oren\> most of them have some sort of protection against bot-loops iirc
00:58:14 <oerjan> [ hi
00:58:15 <j-bot> oerjan: |value error: hi
00:58:37 <kerbal> Noted.
00:59:08 <oerjan> ^prefixes
00:59:08 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
00:59:40 <oerjan> `prefixes
00:59:45 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
01:00:02 <kerbal> Doesn't zemhill also use !?
01:00:33 <oerjan> kerbal: yeah but it has only two commands so i never bothered including it.
01:00:41 <oerjan> ok, maybe three.
01:01:06 <oerjan> although since EgoBot is never here any more...
01:01:16 <oerjan> ( echo hi
01:01:16 <idris-bot> No such variable echo
01:01:34 <oerjan> (but that goes for several in the list)
01:02:13 <kerbal> Hmm...
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01:03:10 <FireFly> [ echo 'hi'
01:03:11 <j-bot> FireFly: |security violation: echo
01:03:11 <j-bot> FireFly: | echo'hi'
01:03:13 <FireFly> oh
01:03:17 <FireFly> [ 'hi'
01:03:18 <j-bot> FireFly: hi
01:08:42 <oerjan> [ echo hi
01:08:42 <j-bot> oerjan: echo hi
01:08:49 <oerjan> [ echo 'hi'
01:08:50 <j-bot> oerjan: |security violation: echo
01:08:50 <j-bot> oerjan: | echo'hi'
01:08:54 <oerjan> weird
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01:12:17 <oerjan> bohily
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01:13:32 <oerjan> kerbal: maybe Integbot to prevent boily from accidentally `welcoming it
01:13:57 <kerbal> good idea
01:14:20 <oerjan> the wiki seems downish
01:14:27 <oerjan> `echo hi
01:14:28 <HackEgo> hi
01:14:56 <oerjan> or at least slow and timing out
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01:17:08 <kerbal> :stats
01:17:39 <kerbal> Integbot: stats
01:18:36 <kerbal> That isn't my design... that's just an example code for the IRC python package. I might alter it to suit our purposes
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01:20:55 <boily> hellørjan! kellorbal!
01:21:27 <boily> I shall `relcome anybody who has to be `relcomed, be they human, robots, cyborgs or fungot.
01:21:27 <fungot> boily: anyway, the last one, from which you could...' is)
01:22:13 <kerbal> Actually, maybe I can avoid doing that
01:23:32 <kerbal> That is, tweak the code
01:24:09 <boily> kerbal: just for the record, are you human, what are your approximative geographic coördinates and body weigh?
01:26:12 <oerjan> `learn Humans are a species rumored to be a majority in the channel, although evidence seems inconclusive.
01:26:14 <HackEgo> Relearned 'human': Humans are a species rumored to be a majority in the channel, although evidence seems inconclusive.
01:26:17 <oerjan> oops
01:26:20 <oerjan> `before
01:26:27 <HackEgo> wisdom/human//Humans are constantly evolving, although not as fast as pokémons.
01:26:32 <kerbal> I am human. My body weight is between 1 and 1000 lbs. My latitude is between 89 N and 89 S and my longitude is between 180 W and 180 E
01:27:14 <oerjan> `learn_append human They are constantly evolving, although not as fast as pokémons.
01:27:16 <HackEgo> Learned 'human': Humans are a species rumored to be a majority in the channel, although evidence seems inconclusive. They are constantly evolving, although not as fast as pokémons.
01:27:28 <oerjan> `slwd human//s,although,but,
01:27:29 <HackEgo> human//Humans are a species rumored to be a majority in the channel, but evidence seems inconclusive. They are constantly evolving, although not as fast as pokémons.
01:28:30 <oerjan> boily: i sense you may have to treat kerbal as an outlier.
01:28:55 <oerjan> at least e didn't claim to be on mars.
01:29:12 <boily> or to be a celestial object.
01:29:39 <oerjan> has anyone claimed to _be_ mars? could get kinky.
01:30:01 <boily> just to be sure, regolite is only moondust?
01:30:15 <oerjan> *h
01:30:23 <kerbal> Yep, I'm definitely one of you human people. I eat your human food and speak your human words
01:30:25 <boily> hegolite?
01:30:28 <boily> hinky?
01:30:39 <boily> kerbal: DEFINITELY.
01:31:05 <oerjan> apparently not, even earth has some.
01:31:36 <oerjan> "Regolith is a layer of loose, heterogeneous superficial material covering solid rock. It includes dust, soil, broken rock, and other related materials and is present on Earth, the Moon, Mars, some asteroids, and other terrestrial planets and moons."
01:32:05 <boily> such is life.
02:01:36 <kerbal> See if you can figure out which command it runs
02:01:44 <kerbal> Should arrive soon
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02:02:24 <kerbal> Here we go
02:02:41 <kerbal> A hint: commands are of the form ;[command] arguments
02:02:56 <kerbal> and the implemented one already exists in other bots
02:03:15 <oerjan> ;echo hi
02:03:15 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:03:18 <oerjan> ;help
02:03:19 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:03:28 <oerjan> TRICKY
02:03:33 <kerbal> keep trying
02:03:34 <oerjan> ;metar ENVA
02:03:34 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:03:45 <oerjan> ;list
02:03:46 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:03:55 <oerjan> ;tell hello
02:03:55 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:04:09 <oerjan> ;zjoust <
02:04:10 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:04:22 <oerjan> ;prefixes
02:04:22 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:04:32 <oerjan> ;help help
02:04:32 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:04:45 <oerjan> ;quit
02:04:45 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:04:54 <kerbal> Another hint: You're doing good, and the bots are too
02:05:02 <oerjan> ;botsnack
02:05:02 <Integbot> A tasty snack! Thanks!
02:05:15 <kerbal> Try ;botsnack Oreo
02:05:23 <oerjan> ;botsnack mint
02:05:24 <Integbot> You gave me a tasty mint!
02:05:51 <kerbal> From here, adding other commands shouldn't be hard
02:06:02 <oerjan> ;famous last words
02:06:02 <Integbot> Command not recognized
02:06:48 <kerbal> lol
02:09:56 <kerbal> The Integ interpreter should be implemented tomorrow if all goes well
02:10:01 <kerbal> bye
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02:20:05 <boily> hello abyss my old friend ♪
02:20:25 <oerjan> `? abyss
02:20:26 <HackEgo> In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same.
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04:18:36 <shachaf> `5 w
04:18:42 <HackEgo> 1/2:atrocity//Atrocity is the capital of the Atrocious Empire. \ delaware//Delaware is a US state in which everybody speaks German. \ adventure//You're in a 20 foot by 20 foot stone room. A stout oaken door banded with iron affords the only visible egress. As you approach the door, an imp appears. "Hello, INSERT NAME. To pass, you must solve my puz
04:18:44 <shachaf> `n
04:18:45 <HackEgo> 2/2:zle. SEE HANDOUT 1 ON PAGE 17." \ 𝕈//𝕈 would be the set of rational numbers, if the Unicode Consortium weren't idiots who put it as ℚ. \ certainly//We don't know what certainly is for sure, but it certainly isn't a functor.
04:19:35 <shachaf> oerjan: Are you sure certainly isn't a functor?
04:19:46 <oerjan> hm isn't it a monad
04:20:06 <oerjan> or is that possibly
04:20:16 <shachaf> if one of them is a monad the other one is a comonad hth
04:20:23 <shachaf> unless you're some sort of intuitionist wwnh
04:20:26 <oerjan> i think certainly is the comonad
04:20:35 <oerjan> because certainly X -> X
04:20:58 <shachaf> possibly
04:21:14 <oerjan> are comonads functors again
04:21:30 <shachaf> I think it's a functor but not an "internal" functor or something.
04:21:53 <shachaf> So (A -> B) -> (CA -> CB) isn't true, but on some meta level something similar is true.
04:21:57 <oerjan> it sends propositions to propositions, sounds pretty internal
04:22:06 <oerjan> ok
04:22:10 <shachaf> I don't know.
04:22:14 <shachaf> `? possibly
04:22:16 <HackEgo> possibly? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
04:22:54 <oerjan> `learn Eventually we'll have a better wisdom here.
04:22:56 <HackEgo> Learned 'eventually': Eventually we'll have a better wisdom here.
04:24:43 <shachaf> `? always
04:24:44 <HackEgo> always? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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04:27:17 <shachaf> i,i `le/rn always//The wisdom entry "eventually" will always be bad.
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04:54:33 <doesthiswork> wouter's automatic refactoring is pretty interesting http://strlen.com/restructor/
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08:07:33 <izabera> `unidecode ; ;
08:07:33 <HackEgo> ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+003B SEMICOLON] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+003B SEMICOLON]
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08:17:30 <Taneb> Hello!
08:18:16 <Taneb> I was told at a job interview on Thursday that I'd hear back from them Monday or Tuesday, and now it is Wednesday morning and I have not heard back
08:18:25 <Taneb> What's the appropriate thing to do here?
08:19:15 <shachaf> Send them an angry email cursing their ancestors?
08:19:36 <shachaf> I guess it depends on whether you want the job.
08:20:47 <olsner> "monday or tuesday" sounds like it could just as well mean wednesday or thursday
08:20:56 <shachaf> I think emailing them to follow up is reasonable but maybe not right on Wed morning.
08:22:06 <Taneb> OK, I will wait a bit longer
08:22:19 <Taneb> It is a job that I would quite like
08:22:27 <shachaf> What's the job?
08:23:36 <Taneb> A company in Cambridge called Myrtle, they do compilers targeting FPGAs and dedicated circuit type things
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08:24:15 <shachaf> "vacancies"
08:24:18 <shachaf> how british
08:25:16 <shachaf> so much haskell
08:27:40 <Taneb> What would the not-British thing to say be?
08:28:40 <shachaf> To me "vacancies" sounds like a hotel or something. Or otherwise very formal.
08:28:51 <olsner> usually "Careers"
08:28:53 <shachaf> I think most US companies I've seen have a link that says "jobs" or "careers".
08:29:02 <shachaf> Instead of "vacancy" they might say "open position" or something.
08:29:59 <Taneb> Ah, fair enough
08:30:04 <shachaf> I don't know.
08:30:32 <shachaf> Is this true: The bigger the (US) company the more likely they are to say "careers" instead of "jobs".
08:30:55 <shachaf> Small startups usually have a link saying "jobs", maybe because they likely won't exist in a few years.
08:31:17 <Taneb> Maybe if you hire someone to do HR for you they tend to use more formal language
08:31:36 <shachaf> It's possible.
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09:27:46 <fizzie> "Opportunities."
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09:45:26 <shachaf> fizzie: That's in recruiter emails.
09:45:38 <shachaf> Though I do get email from British recruiters so who knows.
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16:27:16 <Cale> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/871405126/turing-tumble-gaming-on-a-mechanical-computer/
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18:22:43 <int-e> . o O ( QC is living up to its name once more )
18:24:22 <shachaf> quantum computing?!
18:24:57 <int-e> questrionable contents
18:25:15 <int-e> minus the r and the last s.
18:25:29 <int-e> It's atrocious typing day for me, apparently.
18:26:40 <shachaf> imo scowmic strip
18:27:57 <\oren\> It's so weird how QC is now some sort of transhumanist fiction...
18:28:28 <\oren\> I remember a friend of mine being into it when it was about indie music
18:31:00 <\oren\> well, transhumanism and dick jokes
18:31:44 <int-e> the robots (except Pintsize) are essentially human anyway, they even blush
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19:48:00 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: I think you can compress neoletters.ttf into WOFF2 with more than 10x reduction
19:48:19 <lifthrasiir> in my experiment, 2103093 to 238283
19:49:10 <lifthrasiir> s/more than/nearly/
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20:03:03 <kerbal> ;botsnack
20:03:03 <Integbot> A tasty snack! Thanks!
20:03:23 <kerbal> Now I've got to actually finish the interpreter capability
20:04:02 <kerbal> ;botsnack hamburger
20:04:02 <Integbot> You gave me a tasty hamburger!
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20:18:02 <kerbal> ;integ
20:18:02 <Integbot> Usage: ;integ program [input]
20:18:02 <Integbot> Unrecognized number of arguments
20:18:30 <kerbal> ;integ ](97)
20:18:30 <Integbot> a
20:18:55 <kerbal> ;integ /(0)(0)
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20:22:20 <kerbal> ;integ ](97)
20:22:20 <Integbot> a
20:22:24 <kerbal> ;integ /(0)(0)
20:22:24 <Integbot> Cannot divide by zero.
20:22:38 <shachaf> Please take it to #esoteric-blah.
20:22:54 <shachaf> HackEgo and fungot bot spam is the only kind allowed in here.
20:22:54 <fungot> shachaf: cool... i just don't understand what you want.
20:23:04 <shachaf> fungot: you can't always get what you want, anyway
20:23:05 <fungot> shachaf: i am afraid i cannot find what i want
20:24:03 <shachaf> fungot: but if you try sometimes, well, you just might find you get what you need hth
20:24:03 <fungot> shachaf: identifier already imported... see fnord/ plt/ trunk/ src/ fnord
20:24:13 <shachaf> hm
20:26:06 -!- Integbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:29:43 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
20:32:39 <kerbal> ;integ }(0)(49)}(1)(56)}(2)(47)}(3)(1)~(0)(}(2)(+({(2))({(3)))]({(2))?(-(-({(0))(1))({(2)))(}(3)(1))()?(-(+({(1))(1))({(2)))(}(3)(-1))())
20:33:16 <kerbal> That's odd... that won't post to #esoteric-blah
20:33:19 <hppavilion[0]> shachaf: Oh my god that was amazing
20:33:26 <hppavilion[0]> kerbal: Are you in #esoteric-blah?
20:33:29 <kerbal> yep
20:33:49 <hppavilion[0]> kerbal: Is it too long?
20:33:52 <kerbal> I moved my bot testing there at shachaf's request
20:34:04 <kerbal> but tried to see if I could put it here
20:34:11 <kerbal> (the bot's not here now)
20:35:05 <kerbal> Ok... it must work for you, then... I need to see if I can prevent the bot from flooding the chat, or at least prevent it from crashing
20:35:15 <kerbal> The API below my code must do that
20:35:46 <shachaf> fungot has rare moments of lucidity.
20:35:46 <fungot> shachaf: i reject the argument that i call with the defaults for all missing arguments.
20:36:08 <shachaf> fungot: i reject the premise
20:36:39 <kerbal> wait... is fungot a bot?
20:36:39 <fungot> kerbal: linux is ( fnord. fnord chi non ama il suo fratello, che ha visto, non fnord fnord dio, che non ha visto. fnord fnord
20:36:52 <kerbal> no way
20:36:58 <kerbal> that's amazing
20:37:12 <kerbal> fungot
20:37:12 <fungot> kerbal: http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/ classes/ fall-2004/ csci1901/ pracmidterm2.htm, or name, and another metaxis that allows you to convey the information that then displays come from?
20:37:25 <kerbal> Who built fungot?
20:37:25 <fungot> kerbal: what is the advantage of writing the repository app with an fnord
20:37:39 <kerbal> what?
20:37:46 <kerbal> fungot: what?
20:37:46 <fungot> kerbal: it might be there. you could read the libpcre source, but you still have plans to add some gui to t?
20:44:32 <fizzie> ^source
20:44:32 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
20:47:02 <fizzie> fungot: I'm still pretty proud of you.
20:47:02 <fungot> fizzie: how did you get all possible advantages of java
20:47:08 <kerbal> You wrote an IRC bot THIS GOOD in befunge? I can hardly believe it
20:47:25 <kerbal> Did I read that correctly?
20:47:32 <fizzie> It's easier to write than read, to be fair.
20:48:03 <kerbal> That's amazing
20:48:11 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:48:47 <fizzie> For the babbling there are other programming languages involved in building the language model the Befunge code reads.
20:49:07 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
20:49:34 <kerbal> ah
20:50:21 <fizzie> In fact the more recent styles use a piece of software from my former university, https://github.com/vsiivola/variKN
20:53:30 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Client Quit).
20:56:24 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
20:57:01 <wob_jonas> Re https://www.xkcd.com/1850/ , I've been to the air force museum "F15 flygmuseum" in Söderhamn, Sweden, and it is indeed really cool.
21:01:14 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:12:45 <kerbal> Can I bring my bot on real quick? It interprets Integ, an esolang I created. I'll only have it on here for a couple of minutes
21:13:26 <kerbal> Shachaf, would that be ok?
21:13:35 <shachaf> Why?
21:13:52 <shachaf> I mean, this channel isn't opposed to bots, but the other channel is intended for bot testing.
21:14:21 <kerbal> Well, it might be able to be shown off, and for whatever reason it isn't connecting to esoteric-blah now
21:14:37 <kerbal> It's in a partially usable state... might be interesting
21:15:00 <kerbal> got it working better
21:19:39 <wob_jonas> kerbal: if it's not too noisy, you can. I don't see why it wouldn't connect to esoteric-blah but can connect here though
21:20:07 <kerbal> Wait... it connected
21:20:17 <wob_jonas> and if it's too noisy, we'll ask you to take it away, or get a channel op to quiet it
21:20:34 <kerbal> ok
21:20:40 -!- Integbot has joined.
21:20:50 <kerbal> ;integ }(0)(49)}(1)(56)}(2)(47)}(3)(1)~(0)(}(2)(+({(2))({(3)))]({(2))?(-(-({(0))(1))({(2)))(}(3)(1))()?(-(+({(1))(1))({(2)))(}(3)(-1))())
21:21:31 <kerbal> wait... now I know of a setting I need to tweak
21:21:34 <kerbal> this should work
21:21:41 <kerbal> ;integ ](104)](101)](108)](108)](111)](44)](32)](119)](111)](114)](108)](100)
21:21:41 <Integbot> hello, world
21:21:48 <wob_jonas> kerbal: oh, this is that language you were talking about earlier
21:21:52 <kerbal> Yep
21:21:58 <wob_jonas> does it have some form of looping now?
21:22:07 <kerbal> I think it is Turing-complete now
21:22:27 <kerbal> It's even got time, random, and de-allocation operators as of the most recent update
21:22:29 <wob_jonas> let me see what you added to it
21:22:43 <kerbal> It's at github.com/kerbin111/Integ
21:22:49 <kerbal> But I can show you here
21:23:02 <wob_jonas> um... shouldn't there be at least a pointer from esolangs.org ?
21:23:12 <wob_jonas> you should create an article there
21:23:14 <kerbal> I haven't written an article yet
21:23:24 <kerbal> The random operator:
21:23:29 <kerbal> _xy
21:23:32 <kerbal> In action:
21:23:41 <wob_jonas> I don't care about random, I want to know about looping
21:23:44 <wob_jonas> it didn't have loops last time
21:23:47 <kerbal> ah
21:23:53 <kerbal> The loop operator
21:24:08 <wob_jonas> (looping and conditionals, but there are tons of ways around conditionals)
21:24:12 <kerbal> hold on, let me get a program together
21:24:19 <kerbal> conditional programs are easier
21:24:21 <kerbal> here's one
21:24:25 <wob_jonas> (you need some form of looping, or else everything terminates)
21:25:10 <kerbal> ;integ ]( ? (- ([()) (97)) (97) (98) ) a
21:25:11 <Integbot> Unrecognized number of arguments
21:25:23 <kerbal> ;integ ](?(-([())(97))(97)(98)) a
21:25:23 <Integbot> a
21:25:26 <kerbal> ;integ ](?(-([())(97))(97)(98)) b
21:25:27 <Integbot> b
21:25:30 <kerbal> ;integ ](?(-([())(97))(97)(98)) c
21:25:30 <Integbot> b
21:25:43 <kerbal> The ternary conditional operator is ?
21:26:07 <kerbal> Or ?xyz where x is the condition. y is evaluated if x is 0, else z
21:26:26 <kerbal> Basically, this program detects whether or not you inputted a
21:26:37 <wob_jonas> is that short-circuiting?
21:26:42 <kerbal> what do you mean?
21:27:04 <wob_jonas> short-circuiting means that only one of the expressions y and z will be evaluated when you evaluate ?xyz
21:27:14 <kerbal> Exactly
21:27:17 <wob_jonas> it matters because expressions can have side effects
21:27:32 <kerbal> Only one is evaluated
21:28:09 <kerbal> The loop operator is ~xy where y is evaluated every time x is 0
21:28:24 <kerbal> so y gets evaluated multiple times
21:29:17 <wob_jonas> So you have a while loop, with the condition negated. Good.
21:29:48 <kerbal> yep.
21:30:13 <kerbal> Give me a second and I will demonstrate a program that uses the while loop
21:30:19 <wob_jonas> is there a less-than compare operator, or do you have to get by without one?
21:32:04 <kerbal> You have to get by without one by looping. I've decided that I probably won't implement one
21:32:47 <wob_jonas> it would be nice to have one
21:32:55 <wob_jonas> and perhaps functions too
21:33:01 <kerbal> ;integ ~(-(97)([()))(](89)](111)](117)](32)](115)](97)](105)](100)](32)](39)](97)](39))](89)](111)](117)](32)](100)](105)](100)](110)](39)](116)](32)](115)](97)](121)](32)](39)](97)](39) aab
21:33:02 <Integbot> You said 'a'You said 'a'You didn't say 'a'
21:33:09 <kerbal> That's a looping program
21:33:19 <kerbal> I've thought extensively about putting functions in
21:33:23 <kerbal> or macros
21:34:31 <kerbal> I'll keep you all posted... may implement some someday
21:34:38 <wob_jonas> kerbal: you can get by without a less-than operator, but it's not easy. it would be really better to have that, or some other feature that lets it emulate easily
21:34:48 <wob_jonas> and I don't think it's hard to implement in the interpreter
21:35:03 <kerbal> wob_jonas: It's not... it's more of a language philosophy thing
21:35:21 -!- nullcone has quit.
21:35:30 <kerbal> I want to be a bit minimalistic while still having more features than, say, BF
21:35:42 -!- nullcone has joined.
21:35:58 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:35:58 <kerbal> but not having a > operator while having a % operator may be TOO minimalistic
21:36:07 -!- `^_^v has joined.
21:36:12 <kerbal> (The % operator does modulus)
21:36:24 <wob_jonas> kerbal: do the memory cells store arbitrary size bigints?
21:36:30 <kerbal> yep...
21:36:33 <wob_jonas> you should mention that in the docs I think
21:36:58 <kerbal> Surprised that I don't
21:37:34 <kerbal> About the > operator. If I've got %, my language is not minimalistic but rather inconvenient
21:37:41 <kerbal> which is probably not a great philosophy
21:38:29 <kerbal> I guess it would return 1 or 0 like C
21:39:02 <wob_jonas> Ok, so what rounding does the / operator use? Is it truncating division?
21:39:17 <kerbal> discards remainder, so probably so
21:40:09 <wob_jonas> Then I guess you can use something like /(+1*2x)(*2x) to check for the sign
21:41:23 <wob_jonas> nah, not quite that, but something like that
21:42:09 <kerbal> maybe a construct involving a conditional... not sure
21:42:11 <wob_jonas> make that /(*3x)(+1*3x)
21:42:18 <wob_jonas> checks if x is negative
21:42:42 <wob_jonas> and since this is bigints, /(*3-xy)(+1*3-xy) checks if x is less than y
21:43:02 <wob_jonas> but this only works if it's really truncating divison; if it's floor division, you need a different construction
21:43:06 <kerbal> wait... just to be certain... is bigints arbitrary precision?
21:43:21 <wob_jonas> there are like six different rounding modes for integer division
21:43:25 <wob_jonas> (some of them are stupid, but they exist)
21:43:32 <wob_jonas> kerbal: yes, arbitrary precision integers
21:43:39 <kerbal> ok, just making sur
21:43:41 <kerbal> sure
21:43:52 <wob_jonas> (unless you run out of memory, in which case you get an error)
21:44:07 <kerbal> yeah, division just discards the fractional part
21:44:16 <kerbal> i.e.:
21:44:32 <wob_jonas> so will you add user-definable and callable functions of some sort?
21:44:41 <kerbal> ;integ ](/(201)(2))
21:44:42 <Integbot> d
21:45:20 <wob_jonas> (functions, subroutines, subprograms, procedures, macros, whatever, choose your own name)
21:45:37 <kerbal> wob_jonas: maybe
21:45:46 <kerbal> (I'd probably call them user-defined operators)
21:46:06 <kerbal> Still trying to figure out how they'd work within the syntax of the language
21:46:44 <kerbal> Just to make my explanation clearer:
21:47:08 <kerbal> ;integ ](/(300)(3))](/(301)(3))](/(302)(3))
21:47:08 <Integbot> ddd
21:49:17 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:49:25 -!- `^_^v has joined.
21:51:20 -!- Integbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:51:29 <kerbal> shachaf: I killed Integbot
21:51:51 <kerbal> (well, disconnected is a less violent way of putting it)
21:52:16 <wob_jonas> you took it down temporarily for maintenance
21:52:34 <kerbal> I can put it back up if you want
21:52:42 <wob_jonas> I would like it, yes
21:52:46 <wob_jonas> but it's not urgent
21:52:48 <kerbal> ok, hold on
21:52:49 <wob_jonas> feel free to fix it
21:53:31 <kerbal> (it should be trying to connect)
21:54:01 <kerbal> wait, connected it to the wrong channel somehow
21:54:13 <kerbal> (or maybe I typed in the wrong command)
21:54:16 <kerbal> hold on
21:57:25 -!- Integbot has joined.
21:57:29 <kerbal> ok. A bit of confusion involving Python distro folders
21:57:44 <kerbal> and identically named files
21:57:51 <wob_jonas> ;integ [70
21:57:51 <Integbot> More operands expected.
21:57:54 <kerbal> (it's a long story)
21:58:14 <kerbal> You need to put parentheses around operands
21:58:14 -!- quintopia has set topic: Registered HyperCamel 2 | vampiric marbles | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://www.dropbox.com/s/fyhqyvy3i8oh25m/wisdom.pdf | For bot testing, use #esoteric-blah.
21:58:31 <kerbal> like
21:58:31 <wob_jonas> ;integ [(70)
21:58:49 <kerbal> Wait... you're going for
21:58:53 <kerbal> ;integ ](70)
21:58:53 <Integbot> F
21:59:03 <wob_jonas> ;integ ]70
21:59:04 <Integbot> More operands expected.
21:59:07 <wob_jonas> ;integ ](70)
21:59:07 <Integbot> F
21:59:12 <kerbal> yp
21:59:13 <wob_jonas> ;integ ](70)](72)
21:59:13 <Integbot> FH
21:59:14 <kerbal> yep
21:59:23 <wob_jonas> ;integ +(](70))(](72))
21:59:23 <Integbot> FH
21:59:27 <wob_jonas> ;integ +(](70))](72)
21:59:27 <Integbot> More operands expected.
21:59:32 <wob_jonas> ;integ +(](70))(](72))
21:59:32 <Integbot> FH
21:59:51 <wob_jonas> ;integ +(3)(4)
22:00:02 <wob_jonas> ;integ +(3)(4)](72)
22:00:02 <Integbot> H
22:00:13 <wob_jonas> ;integ ](+2(70))
22:00:13 <Integbot> More operands expected.
22:00:16 <wob_jonas> ;integ ](+(2)(70))
22:00:17 <Integbot> H
22:00:31 <kerbal> Yep, that's how you test arithmetic
22:00:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Santiago Benoit * New user account
22:00:47 <kerbal> Since you can't directly put integers to the console
22:01:06 <wob_jonas> ;integ ~(0)(]73)
22:01:07 <Integbot> More operands expected.
22:01:10 <wob_jonas> ;integ ~(0)(](73))
22:01:14 <kerbal> (Well, you can put the corresponding character, but that won't be the right value)
22:01:19 <wob_jonas> ;integ ](74)
22:01:19 <Integbot> J
22:02:00 <kerbal> wob_jonas: still working on the way in which the bot works with loops
22:02:11 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(8)~(}(0)(-({0)(1){(0))(](73))](65)
22:02:12 <Integbot> More operands expected.
22:02:18 <kerbal> because ;integ ~(0)(](73)) should put an infinite loop
22:02:45 <kerbal> I bet that Integbot is not allowed to send that many characters
22:02:54 <kerbal> and so the buffer sends nothing
22:03:09 <kerbal> what is the max character limit in messages here?
22:03:14 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(8)~({(0))(}(0)(-({(0))(1)(](73))](65)
22:03:15 <Integbot> Parentheses not balanced.
22:03:35 <int-e> `grwp character
22:03:47 <HackEgo> ​ꙮ:ꙮ is the official Unicode character of #esoteric. \  :  is a space, unless you're hackego and don't understand wide characters. \ ☾_:☾_ is moon_'s lawful twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. He sometimes eats papers. \ character:A character is just a homomorphism to the group of complex numbers of modulu
22:04:38 <kerbal> just googled it... 256 characters
22:04:52 <kerbal> will implement changes respecting that
22:05:33 <wob_jonas> kerbal: it's complicated, the max length is between 356 and 490
22:06:08 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:06:14 <kerbal> What about 300 then, just to be safe?
22:06:17 <wob_jonas> kerbal: the server sends commands at most 512 long to the clients, including the terminating crlf, but the header is variable length because it includes the sender's nick!user@hostname and the channel name
22:06:40 <kerbal> Interesting
22:06:41 <wob_jonas> kerbal: 356 is definitely always safe on freenode
22:06:51 <kerbal> 356 it is, then
22:07:20 <kerbal> hold on, let me restart the bot
22:07:31 <wob_jonas> it depends on the network because the max nickname length and channel name length differ (I don't know if the username and hostname max lengths differ or not), some networks allow ridiculously long nicks or ridiculously long channel names (probably not both together)
22:07:39 <wob_jonas> ask if you need the details
22:07:40 <kerbal> ah
22:08:05 -!- Integbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:08:14 <wob_jonas> and that's bytes, not characters in any other encoding
22:08:19 <wob_jonas> 356 bytes
22:08:24 -!- Integbot has joined.
22:08:37 <kerbal> ;integ ~(0)(](73))
22:08:40 <wob_jonas> and messages must not contain cr, lf, or nul characters
22:09:07 <kerbal> Integbot already prohibits those, but not well:
22:09:14 <kerbal> ;integ ](10)
22:09:14 <Integbot> Some output characters cannot be displayed.
22:09:22 <kerbal> ;integ ](97)](10)
22:09:22 <Integbot> Some output characters cannot be displayed.
22:09:51 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(72)}(0)(-({(0))(1))]({(0))
22:09:51 <Integbot> G
22:10:10 <kerbal> I bet I can make a special exception for cr, lf, and nul, though... those are 13, 10, and 0, right?
22:10:13 <wob_jonas> kerbal: it would be nicer if the bot just replaced those bytes with a space instead of dying
22:10:20 <kerbal> I agree
22:10:23 <wob_jonas> yes, 13, 10 and 0 in decimal
22:11:07 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(72)~(-(64)({(0)))(}(0)(-({(0))(1))]({(0)))
22:11:20 <wob_jonas> no wait, the loop is backwards
22:12:10 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(72)~(/(64)(-(64)({(0))))(}(0)(-({(0))(1))]({(0)))
22:12:43 <kerbal> You may need a ]
22:13:02 <wob_jonas> no, I am probably messing up the condition
22:13:13 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(72)~(/(64)(-(128)({(0))))(}(0)(-({(0))(1))]({(0)))
22:13:34 <kerbal> oh yeah, you've got one
22:13:38 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(72)~(1)(}(0)(-({(0))(1))]({(0)))
22:13:51 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(126)~(0)(}(0)(-({(0))(1))]({(0)))
22:13:52 <Integbot> Some output characters cannot be displayed.
22:14:08 <kerbal> Note that in ?xyz, x must be 0 for y
22:14:34 -!- Integbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:14:49 -!- Integbot has joined.
22:14:54 <kerbal> Sorry, just implementing some improvements
22:15:01 <kerbal> try your last command again
22:15:03 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(126)~(0)(}(0)(-({(0))(?(-({(0))(64))(0)(1)))]({(0)))
22:15:03 <Integbot> }|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
22:16:02 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(126)~(?(-({(0))(64))(1)(0))(}(0)(-({(0))(1)))]({(0)))
22:16:03 <Integbot> Error: Illegal use of ().
22:16:03 <Integbot> @
22:16:10 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(126)~(?(-({(0))(64))(1)(0))(}(0)(-({(0))(1))]({(0)))
22:16:10 <Integbot> }|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@
22:16:15 <wob_jonas> ah, better
22:16:20 <kerbal> For recognized invalid character codes, namely negative ones, 0, 10, and 13, it prints nothing like the offline Integ interpreter. For other invalid character codes,
22:16:26 <wob_jonas> (though some comparison operators would be easier to wrap around my head)
22:16:30 <kerbal> it keeps the behavior it had before
22:16:39 <kerbal> I might add <
22:17:27 <fizzie> Why is it that whenever a company posts you a "we're updating our terms of service" email, they never include a diff.
22:17:37 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(32)~(-(/({(0))(127))(1))(}(0)(+({(0))(1))]({(0)))
22:17:51 <fizzie> It's always just "here's 20 pages of legalese, we changed some of it".
22:17:54 <wob_jonas> kerbal: why do you insist on parenthesis around every operand? or is that not what the syntax does?
22:18:15 <kerbal> You know, I wonder if the time operator will have any weird behavior here... I copied and pasted most of this code from the offline version and then edited it
22:18:24 <kerbal> (probably NOT good programming practice)
22:18:25 <wob_jonas> ;integ }(0)(32)~(/({(0))(127))(}(0)(+({(0))(1))]({(0)))
22:18:25 <Integbot> !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~
22:18:54 <kerbal> wob_jonas: the parentheses ensure that whitespace can be completely ignored
22:19:11 <kerbal> which means you can shape your code any way you want
22:19:16 <shachaf> fizzie: Because they don't want you to read it?
22:19:17 <kerbal> plus, it's easier to parse
22:19:23 <wob_jonas> even if whitespace is ignored, you could require less parenthesis
22:19:24 <shachaf> kerbal: I think you should take your bot back to #esoteric-blah
22:19:40 <kerbal> shachaf: Sorry
22:19:43 <kerbal> ok
22:19:47 -!- Integbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:19:58 <wob_jonas> you only really need it in two cases: between numbers to disambiguate a multi-digit integer literal from multiple shorter ones, and for the implicit sequencing (comma) operator
22:20:29 <kerbal> wob_jonas: true... I kind of like the obsfucation, though
22:20:46 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure if this counts as obfuscation, but ok
22:20:54 <kerbal> good point
22:21:03 <kerbal> it may not be
22:21:23 <kerbal> it's easy to parse
22:21:27 <kerbal> i guess
22:21:58 <wob_jonas> if you want easy to parse, just remove the implicit sequencing operator to make it a true prefix operator language
22:22:16 <wob_jonas> you don't even need any new construct in its place as long as operators like + eval their arguments from left to right
22:23:02 <kerbal> I would have to do something about integer constants, though
22:23:06 <kerbal> I thing
22:23:11 <kerbal> think
22:23:12 <wob_jonas> spaces between them?
22:23:26 <kerbal> I want Integ to completely ignore whitespace
22:23:43 <wob_jonas> um... commas or some other symbol between them?
22:25:20 <kerbal> possibly...
22:25:46 <kerbal> I don't know, I kind of like the ridiculous overuse of ()
22:26:11 <wob_jonas> um... parenthesis around every multi-digit number?
22:26:15 <kerbal> it's worse than LISP (ironically, I didn't even know about LISP syntax until AFTER I wrote the language)
22:27:24 <kerbal> that actually might be harder to parse
22:27:51 <wob_jonas> kerbal: not if you remove the implicit sequencing
22:27:58 <wob_jonas> it will become much easier to parse then
22:28:45 <kerbal> Well, I might play around with that idea... would be a neat change.
22:28:56 <kerbal> The parentheses can be really hard to keep track of
22:29:37 <kerbal> besides the () overuse, what are your thoughts?
22:30:05 <wob_jonas> well, I already said a less-than operator would be convenient, and some sort of user-defined user-called functions would be nice too
22:30:15 <wob_jonas> those would make this a usable small language
22:30:17 <wob_jonas> "small"
22:30:35 <wob_jonas> it still needs a full bignum engine, so it's not quite "small", but not big either
22:30:43 <wob_jonas> well, bigint engine
22:30:54 <wob_jonas> like dc
22:31:01 <kerbal> What do you mean by full bigint engine? It can handle large numbers
22:31:55 <wob_jonas> sure, your implementation already uses the bigint calculations built into python 3 if I understand correctly
22:32:02 <kerbal> Yep
22:32:22 <kerbal> do you mean like a native arithmetic handler?
22:34:25 <wob_jonas> I mean some code that handles the allocation and the arithmetic operations on the bigintegers
22:35:35 <kerbal> Could you give me an example of what that would be used for? I don't quite understand what you mean
22:35:46 <kerbal> My apologies
22:36:34 <wob_jonas> um, your language has these + - * / operators that operate on big integers. to implement this language, the interpreter needs to contain code to do those computations on arbitrary bigings
22:36:35 <wob_jonas> bigints
22:36:53 <wob_jonas> your implementation calls the ones built into the python 3 interpreter
22:37:05 <kerbal> Why is that problematic?
22:37:32 <wob_jonas> it isn't, I'm just saying it's not really a minimalistic language in the sense some esolangs are, though it still is not too big
22:37:44 <kerbal> ah, ok.
22:38:00 <kerbal> What is it, then? A medium sized language?
22:38:44 <wob_jonas> no, still a small language. a full implementation would be a few kilobytes at least (if optimized)
22:38:54 <wob_jonas> or a tiny language, but not a minimalistic one
22:39:03 <wob_jonas> at least not if you count the computer implementation
22:39:23 <wob_jonas> it might be a minimalistic language mathematically like two-counter counter machines are
22:40:13 <kerbal> I see.
22:40:22 <kerbal> (Sorry, I'm new to this)
22:47:23 <kerbal> I guess that this engine would handle +,-,*,/ through bit operations?
22:47:30 <kerbal> and such?
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23:09:44 <kerbal> wob_jonas: I'm working on providing documentation for the operators through a ;help command, if you find that relevant
23:11:34 -!- LKoen has joined.
23:28:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Footsteps]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52160&oldid=52153 * Ais523 * (+433) r to Keymaker
23:29:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Footsteps]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52161&oldid=52160 * Ais523 * (+56) also explain what happens when running out of lines
23:33:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Kangaroo]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52162&oldid=52152 * Ais523 * (+692) /* Matrix Kangaroo */ I've actually used this; looks like we invented the language independently
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23:41:09 <kerbal> `prefixes
23:41:10 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
23:41:17 <kerbal> [ help
23:41:18 <j-bot> kerbal: |value error: help
23:41:22 <kerbal> [help
23:41:27 <kerbal> [ ?
23:41:28 <j-bot> kerbal: ?
23:42:08 <wob_jonas> kerbal: http://code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Community/IRC has some very old description of jevalbot. I'm not really maintaining it these days (though I can answer questions) so there's no better docs
23:42:21 <wob_jonas> [ 9+4
23:42:21 <j-bot> wob_jonas: 13
23:42:34 <kerbal> Thanks. I wanted to try something in #esoteric-blah
23:46:40 -!- erkin has joined.
23:52:52 <wob_jonas> > var "hello"
23:52:53 <lambdabot> hello
23:53:04 <wob_jonas> > "hello"
23:53:06 <lambdabot> "hello"
23:53:31 <shachaf> hellob_jonas
23:53:32 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:53:52 <shachaf> oerjan: Are you allergic to cats or something?
23:54:53 <wob_jonas> hi shachaf
23:55:50 <oerjan> not very, although i have suspected they make me itch. it's not like i'm into contact with many.
23:56:22 <shachaf> Hmm, why don't you get a kitten?
23:56:30 <shachaf> `? oerjan
23:56:31 <HackEgo> Your omnipheasant back principal witty arrant darth oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arc-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
23:56:59 <shachaf> `swrjan s/Be/Ki/
23:57:00 <oerjan> i could tell you but then i would have to kill you.
23:57:01 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipheasant back principal witty arrant darth oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in minor compaction. Also a Glaneep who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arc-nemesis is Kitty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
23:58:00 <oerjan> (aka i'm not anywhere near organized enough to care for an animal)
23:58:09 <shachaf> oerjan: What if you fostered a kitten for two weeks?
23:58:14 <shachaf> Do you think you can do two weeks?
23:58:18 <oerjan> no.
23:58:30 <wob_jonas> oerjan: you could just say that you live in an apartment where you can't keep pets. that's a pretty socially acceptable excuse.
23:58:48 <oerjan> well i could but it would be a lie.
23:58:49 <shachaf> Why would you give excuses to things?
23:58:51 <wob_jonas> shachaf: you want to find a temporary caretaker for your cat during a vacation?
23:58:55 <shachaf> I live in an apartment that doesn't allow pets. :-(
23:59:35 <oerjan> wob_jonas: given how much i complained about the neighbors' pet after i moved here, i think that lie would be very implausible hth
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