←2017-07-02 2017-07-03 2017-07-04→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:02:59 -!- LKoen has joined.
00:34:29 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
00:54:00 -!- Warrigal_ has joined.
01:12:40 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
01:17:53 -!- oerjan has joined.
01:38:41 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
01:40:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:43:30 -!- boily has joined.
01:47:57 <boily> `w
01:47:59 <HackEgo> monqy//monqy is no longer extant. He lives in concept, hidden, unfindable. You could ask itidus21 for details, if you find him.
01:48:22 -!- erkin has quit (Quit: Ouch! Got SIGABRT, dying...).
01:54:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:05:40 <oerjan> bhellongtimenoseely
02:06:05 -!- augur has joined.
02:08:56 <__kerbal__> So, I've been wondering something. Who hosts the wiki now?
02:10:17 <boily> bonsoύafaitunboutterjan!
02:11:43 <oerjan> __kerbal__: Gregor hosts it and fizzie maintains it
02:12:18 <oerjan> it's on the same server as HackEgo (which is why we get the wiki announcements)
02:12:22 <__kerbal__> ah, ok. I knew who hosted it a few years ago but never found who hosted it now
02:12:29 <__kerbal__> Interesting
02:12:57 <__kerbal__> What became of Graue and ehird?
02:13:44 <oerjan> they stopped coming here.
02:14:33 <__kerbal__> ah
02:15:56 <boily> a dark basement likely ate them.
02:16:02 <fizzie> I guess that "why" is technically true in that being on the same server was the motivation for the announcements, but they would work across hosts with just a configuration change.
02:17:14 <oerjan> i sort of suspected that
02:18:29 <fizzie> (Making them work in a way that wouldn't permit anyone from spamming the channel by spoofing the source address would be slightly more involved.)
02:18:49 * oerjan cannot find out what "boutt*" means
02:20:22 <boily> «ça fait un boutte», with the infamous «-tte» québécois spelling. «ça fait un bout» → ”it's been a while”.
02:20:52 <boily> while fr:bout can mean en:end, en:extremity, it can also mean en:“a length”.
02:21:07 <__kerbal__> I also heard that there was a forum at one point... I guess that, from what I've read of esolang wiki history, that (A) The forum was redundant and (B) it was clunky to use?
02:21:11 <oerjan> boily: there's some evidence they're still alive.
02:21:24 <oerjan> or were recently, anyway.
02:21:37 <fizzie> __kerbal__: It was also spammy.
02:21:43 <__kerbal__> Ok, I see
02:22:06 <boily> oerjan: I don't know who Graue is.
02:22:20 <fizzie> There's still a read-only copy around, isn't there?
02:22:24 <ais523> boily: person who originally founded the wiki
02:22:25 <__kerbal__> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Graue
02:22:34 <ais523> the forum wasn't terrible to use, just nobody did, so nobody had an incentive to
02:23:00 <ais523> IIRC it used the same software 4chan did (or at least, something in the same style), which was an interesting choice
02:23:06 <fizzie> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal has a link to the archive.
02:23:57 <__kerbal__> You got a LOT of DVD spam
02:25:34 <__kerbal__> The history of the esolang community is really neat. I find category:shameful really amusing
02:26:00 <boily> heh :D
02:26:09 <fizzie> The mailing list(s) got real use, and were the direct predecessor of this channel.
02:27:29 -!- Warrigal_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
02:29:09 <__kerbal__> Avast is flagging some kind of threat in one of the mailing list archives
02:29:15 <__kerbal__> (the most recent one)
02:30:26 <fizzie> There may be some spam in there as well, especially for the last years.
02:30:55 <__kerbal__> There's a LOT in the most recent one
02:31:20 <fizzie> 2001/2002 are better.
02:32:03 <fizzie> Maybe we should have a 15-year celebration of some sort for #esoteric this coming December.
02:33:04 <__kerbal__> I've read about various abortive esolang design contests... I would participate in one, personally
02:33:13 <boily> maybe oerjan could meet Taneb?
02:33:16 <__kerbal__> an idea
02:33:57 <oerjan> boily: what
02:35:41 <fizzie> Maybe oerjan could meet Taneb in Greenland.
02:35:45 <fizzie> `quote greenland
02:35:46 <HackEgo> 932) <fizzie> The other day (well, the other week) my wife was annoyed with me because she had a dream where I had gotten us plane tickets into a #esoteric meet somewhere in the middle of Greenland in the winter, without asking her first. Plus she wasn't really interested in a #esoteric meet at all, let alone one in Greenland, let alone one in Gree
02:36:13 <shachaf> `2 quote greenland
02:36:15 <HackEgo> 2/2:Greenland in wintertime. (I think it's kind of cold there?)
02:39:33 <fizzie> shachaf: I'm in MTV again in August, though just for a week.
02:40:13 <shachaf> tg
02:41:31 <fizzie> @metar BGSF
02:41:32 <lambdabot> BGSF 030050Z AUTO 31014KT 9999NDV SCT060/// 04/M04 Q1010
02:41:37 <fizzie> Sounds cold.
02:41:39 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
02:41:40 <lambdabot> KOAK 030053Z 29012KT 10SM FEW008 FEW012 19/13 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP143 T01940128
02:41:41 <shachaf> @metar KSJC
02:41:42 <lambdabot> KSJC 030053Z 30010KT 10SM FEW024 23/14 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP133 T02330144
02:42:53 <boily> @metar CYUL
02:42:53 <lambdabot> CYUL 030100Z 25003KT 220V290 15SM FEW040TCU FEW080 20/18 A2983 RMK TCU1AC1 SLP104 DENSITY ALT 800FT
02:50:29 <fizzie> What's the "TCU" in "FEW040TCU FEW080”? (Total Cost of... U-something?)
02:51:09 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulus_congestus_cloud apparently?
02:51:47 <fizzie> Oh, it's the kind of cloud.
02:52:31 <boily> Towering Cumulus.
02:52:36 <fizzie> FEW040FLUFFY
02:53:18 <boily> it's a very humid summer so far. my plants are happy.
02:53:53 <fizzie> My plantdroid dried out while I was in Scotland. :/
02:54:05 <fizzie> I keep pens in it now.
02:57:55 <boily> time for me to slumber post-modernly in an hyper-slow-motion interpretative deconstructivist expression of the inanimate self, transcending linen boundaries and reappropriation of unsuspecting pillows.
02:58:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: AIRPORT CHICKEN).
03:02:32 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
03:02:49 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:15:14 -!- sleffy has joined.
03:18:06 <oerjan> . o O ( what's a plantdroid )
03:31:52 -!- Zarutian has joined.
04:00:38 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
04:05:19 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
04:15:05 -!- Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian).
04:41:25 -!- sleffy has joined.
04:47:56 <shachaf> https://www.akalin.com/bfpp
05:01:52 -!- ais523 has quit.
05:08:50 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:10:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
05:30:41 -!- sleffy has joined.
05:58:29 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
06:04:04 <int-e> @metar lowi
06:04:04 <lambdabot> LOWI 030450Z 06004KT 9999 -RA FEW005 SCT015 BKN025 14/13 Q1024 NOSIG
06:29:26 <zzo38> To make up the new kind of forum with Unusenet perhaps. I wrote the document for it, so in order to do so, is only necessary to do what is written on there; it does not require notifying anyone at all about it.
06:30:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:30:41 -!- augur has joined.
06:30:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
06:32:31 <zzo38> Did you read this document? Then you can tell me in case of anything wrong with it please.
06:37:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52390&oldid=52347 * Qwertyu63 * (-34)
06:37:48 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:38:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
06:50:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
06:53:12 -!- sleffy has joined.
06:53:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52391&oldid=52390 * Qwertyu63 * (+72)
06:56:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52392&oldid=52391 * Qwertyu63 * (-4)
06:56:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52393&oldid=52392 * Qwertyu63 * (+0)
07:02:01 -!- augur has joined.
07:05:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:12:16 -!- augur has joined.
07:18:29 <izabera> is there a name for this? a tree where each node can be either white, black or grey
07:18:31 <izabera> and where a white node only has white children, and a black node only has black children
07:18:56 <oerjan> apartheid hth
07:20:03 <zzo38> I don't know?
07:20:16 <oerjan> (wait, y'all are too young for this...)
07:23:08 <myname> i liked it
07:23:37 <myname> the joke, that is
07:23:55 <shachaf> Why is that sort of tree interesting?
07:24:03 <oerjan> yay
07:24:49 <int-e> . o O ( oerjan's feeling his age! )
07:25:37 <shachaf> oerjan: I think apartheid known even to youngsters.
07:25:44 <oerjan> shocking
07:26:00 <izabera> shachaf: i use a bitmap to keep track of allocated areas, and this is faster than a linear scan
07:26:20 <int-e> oh that kind of tree
07:26:21 <izabera> because if free == white, you don't have to descend into black nodes to find a free block
07:26:52 <shachaf> this "free == white" thing is not helping your case hth
07:26:59 <oerjan> word.
07:27:01 <izabera> lol
07:27:07 <myname> :D
07:27:23 <izabera> let's s/white/blue/g, s/black/yellow/g, s/grey/green/g
07:27:36 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quad_tree_bitmap.svg ... I think they have no particular name and are described by their branching factor instead. (You could to the binary space partitioning as well)
07:28:00 <izabera> yeah that's the same thing but in 1d instead of 2d
07:28:40 <shachaf> 2^k trees are tg
07:28:47 <izabera> tg?
07:28:49 <shachaf> too good
07:29:02 <int-e> also, generically, it's a kind of sparse array
07:29:14 <izabera> i guess
07:29:41 <shachaf> Do you like hashlife?
07:29:59 <shachaf> How would you make these sorts of diagrams? http://slbkbs.org/h/1.svg
07:30:08 <int-e> izabera: anyway if you find an established name please let us know
07:30:17 <izabera> shachaf: yeah hashlife is great, especially its practical applications
07:30:30 <shachaf> What are its practical applications?
07:30:45 <izabera> thatsthejoke.gif
07:31:13 <shachaf> Is the joke that it has no practical applications?
07:31:20 <int-e> what's up with those imaginary gif images
07:32:07 <shachaf> Imaginary gif is better than actual gif
07:32:17 <shachaf> Larger color palette.
07:32:51 <int-e> I mean, what does "thatsthejoke.gif" convey that isn't conveyed by "that's the joke"?
07:33:04 <shachaf> There's a picture from the Simpsons that it's supposed to conjure, I think.
07:33:23 <shachaf> I watched the video that the picture comes from. It uses "that's the joke" in a completely different sense. It's not very funny.
07:33:27 <shachaf> Maybe that's the joke?
07:34:23 <shachaf> Oh, so what you're actually saying about this tree is that you only store the internal node rather than the entire subtree.
07:34:33 <izabera> yep
07:34:54 <shachaf> Why not just call it a tree where the leaves are black or white?
07:35:13 <izabera> ok
07:35:32 <zzo38> You can call them black white tree.
07:35:32 <shachaf> I'm confused.
07:37:20 <izabera> what's confusing?
07:44:58 <shachaf> :t confusiing
07:45:00 <lambdabot> error:
07:45:00 <lambdabot> • Variable not in scope: confusiing
07:45:00 <lambdabot> • Perhaps you meant ‘confusing’ (imported from Control.Lens)
07:45:03 <shachaf> ugh
07:45:04 <shachaf> :t confusing
07:45:06 <lambdabot> Applicative f => LensLike (Data.Functor.Day.Curried.Curried (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f) (Data.Functor.Yoneda.Yoneda f)) s t a b -> LensLike f s t a b
08:04:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:22:36 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
08:25:30 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
08:26:50 <zzo38> I have played GURPS game four times already, and not once has my character ever been damaged. My character's shield got hit a few times but also has never gotten damaged.
08:52:48 <shachaf> What about your character's shield's shield?
08:55:36 -!- augur has joined.
09:10:24 <Taneb> shachaf, zzo38 goes through four of them a minute
09:12:52 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:14:35 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:15:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
09:26:11 -!- erkin has joined.
09:29:32 <int-e> @quote stab
09:29:32 <lambdabot> byorgey says: <edwardk> @type (^.) <lambdabot> s -> Getting a s t a b -> a <byorgey> I would not like to be getting a stab, thank you
09:29:51 <int-e> `wisdom
09:29:55 <HackEgo> emoticon//emoticon: ¯\(°​_o)/¯
09:36:58 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
09:59:40 -!- augur has joined.
10:06:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:07:06 -!- sleffy has joined.
10:16:52 -!- sleffy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
10:28:48 * oerjan realizes he's been backscrolled fo 3 hours without noticing
10:31:50 <oerjan> <shachaf> :t confusing <-- now i'm wondering what the infamous ... i m a s t a b u function was.
10:33:42 <oerjan> @quote i.m.a.s
10:33:42 <lambdabot> ddarius says: Someone made a completely non-idiomatic library/redefinings to make the code look more like ruby because, I'm assuming, they suffer from brain damage.
10:33:50 <oerjan> @quote i.m.a.s.t
10:33:50 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Sorry.
10:33:54 <oerjan> darn
10:34:11 <oerjan> @quote stab
10:34:12 <lambdabot> pjdelport says: [on qwe1234:] It must be a drag, being the sole beacon of sanity in a field where all the established researchers are unanimously insane.
10:34:27 <oerjan> @quote \<stab
10:34:28 <lambdabot> sioraiocht says: if you made a type class the same name as a type, I'd stab you in the face
10:35:05 <oerjan> i think you cannot do that, without different modules.
10:35:22 <oerjan> *+r
10:48:05 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:33:50 -!- boily has joined.
11:56:01 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
12:04:11 -!- trn has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:07:22 -!- augur has joined.
12:11:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:23:45 -!- erkin has joined.
12:24:25 -!- trn has joined.
12:27:28 -!- boily has quit (Quit: WATCH CHICKEN).
12:28:11 -!- Remavas-Hex has joined.
12:28:23 -!- Remavas has quit (Disconnected by services).
12:28:44 -!- Remavas-Hex has changed nick to Remavas.
12:41:34 -!- PinealGlandOptic has quit (Quit: leaving).
12:48:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
12:59:20 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
12:59:46 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: *).
13:08:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
13:12:09 -!- __kerbal__ has joined.
13:18:19 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
13:51:17 -!- sftp has joined.
14:00:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:37:56 -!- Remavas has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:38:34 -!- Remavas has joined.
14:38:40 -!- iovoid has joined.
14:38:40 -!- iovoid has quit (Changing host).
14:38:40 -!- iovoid has joined.
14:43:46 -!- Remavas has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
14:48:49 -!- erkin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
15:07:42 -!- augur has joined.
15:12:06 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
16:41:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Triple Threat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52394 * Kerbal * (+197) Created page with "You say that there are "There are a total of 11 valid commands in TT." Isn't that number actually 12, as 00 is a command? ~~~~"
16:46:06 -!- __kerbal__ has joined.
16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host).
16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has joined.
16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Changing host).
16:46:14 -!- __kerbal__ has joined.
16:47:24 <shachaf> oerjan: There was no such function.
16:47:58 -!- __kerbal__ has quit (Client Quit).
17:16:10 -!- sftp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:20:02 -!- nullcone has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:21:18 -!- sftp has joined.
17:25:17 -!- nullcone has joined.
17:28:46 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
17:40:31 -!- testuser has joined.
17:41:22 <testuser> hello. is someone here ?
17:42:01 -!- testuser has left.
17:43:59 <Hoolootwo> welp
17:49:06 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:57:22 -!- FreeFull has joined.
17:58:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:59:49 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:04:27 -!- lezsakdomi has joined.
18:14:41 -!- lezsakdomi has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:31:42 -!- augur has joined.
18:54:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: restart).
18:55:20 -!- sebbu has joined.
18:58:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:02:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
19:08:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:09:17 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:27:34 <myname> the hell
19:42:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:49:18 -!- johndoe021 has joined.
19:59:33 -!- erkin has joined.
20:06:28 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:16:22 <shachaf> `quote solidity
20:16:23 <HackEgo> 240) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity
20:16:38 <shachaf> http://u.solidity.cc/
20:17:10 <shachaf> Did you know about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidity ?
20:17:22 <zzo38> Please to see it gopher://zzo38computer.org/0textfile/miscellaneous/unusenet tell me any comment you have of it.
20:17:31 <shachaf> treederwright was a true prophet
20:29:55 -!- Mew_ has joined.
20:30:06 <Mew_> Hello.
20:30:24 <shachaf> `welcome Mew_
20:30:25 <HackEgo> Mew_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:38:27 <FireFly> G'evening
20:43:22 <zzo38> Did you read this document?
20:49:12 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
20:50:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:56:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:22:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
21:25:34 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:30:20 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
21:47:36 -!- Warrigal_ has joined.
21:53:08 -!- sebbu has joined.
21:56:28 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:01:47 <Mew_> How long have you guys been programming?
22:02:14 <Mew_> and how did you get into it?
22:02:29 <Taneb> About 7 or 8 years, from David Morgan Mar's esolangs
22:02:34 <Taneb> (especially Piet)
22:03:39 <Mew_> I started to program in dos when I was 9, though didn't learn c++ until just this year. C# has served me well
22:04:47 <Mew_> batch, that is
22:04:49 <Taneb> I learnt Haskell shortly after finding this channel circa 2011 and I've just got a job using it \o/
22:05:17 <Mew_> Hope to be able to find a developer job after I finish UNI
22:05:44 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:05:53 <rdococ> `? rdococ
22:05:54 <Taneb> My advice is have a niche skill and lots of public examples of your programming
22:05:54 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but he is actually on Mars. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words.
22:06:48 <rdococ> `learn rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words.
22:06:51 <HackEgo> Relearned 'rdococ': rdococ was thought to be from Budapest, then Mars, but he is actually in Airstrip One. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom & mapoledom. He is a relative of `words.
22:08:17 <shachaf> `cwlprits rdococ
22:08:24 <Taneb> rdococ, anywhere near the bit of airstrip one I've just moved to?
22:08:25 <HackEgo> rdocöc rdocöc rdocöc oerjän oerjän oerjän rdocöc rdocöc rdocöc oerjän rdocöc rdocöc oerjän
22:08:37 <shachaf> what a surprise imo
22:08:48 <rdococ> Taneb, idk for sure.
22:11:00 <rdococ> `? Taneb
22:11:01 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
22:11:17 <rdococ> Taneb, may I ask you why you moved to Airstrip One? you must be nuts.
22:19:40 <Taneb> rdococ, some of us have the ill fortune to be born here
22:21:26 <Taneb> I've just moved to Cambridge, however
22:22:20 <rdococ> Taneb, ah. I misread what you said.
22:22:31 <rdococ> I was born here too. miracle we can still use the internet.
22:23:06 <Taneb> Quite, indeed
22:23:07 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:23:20 <ais523> where is airstrip one?
22:23:24 <Mew_> I live in pirateland #1
22:23:39 <Taneb> Mew_, Penzance??
22:23:48 <rdococ> It's located above the left-most regions of Eurasia.
22:23:53 <Mew_> and by that I mean digital pirateland #1
22:23:54 <Taneb> ais523, Britain a la 1984
22:24:02 <Taneb> Mew_, ...Penzance???
22:24:10 <Mew_> Sweden boi
22:24:19 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:24:35 <Taneb> So, not Penzance
22:24:36 <Mew_> You'll have trouble finding someone here who hasnt pirated a movie or game
22:24:48 <Mew_> no, not Penzance
22:24:52 <Mew_> but that's a nice place
22:24:59 <FireFly> I'm trying not to pirate things :P
22:25:20 <Mew_> Same, I actually only pirate to check if its worth buying xd
22:26:02 -!- FreeFull has joined.
22:29:14 -!- augur has joined.
22:29:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:31:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:33:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain-Flak]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52395&oldid=52100 * Wheatwizard * (-2) Even shorter sum of inputs
22:35:14 <fizzie> I seem to recall talking about Befunge a significant fraction of one interview, and think I got an offer.
22:35:23 <fizzie> Not sure which company this was though.
22:36:04 <rdococ> make sure it isn't in airstrip one
22:37:06 <fizzie> Logs of this channel suggest it was Nokia, where I think I mostly got the (summer) job for knowing Perl.
22:37:32 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPji43Hqyrg
22:37:34 <\oren\> ^ when u aren't allowed to play anymore minecraft today
22:44:41 <fizzie> Here's a fun UK fact: living here for two and a half years isn't long enough to turn a pay-as-you-go SIM into a monthly (£15/mo) plan SIM, at least with Three. They need three years of UK residential addresses before they can even think about considering such a risk.
22:46:28 <FireFly> o.o
22:47:40 <shachaf> No one is answering my question about "Rice's theorem for computable reals": https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/77487/decidable-properties-of-computable-reals
22:47:45 -!- __kerbal__ has joined.
22:48:08 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:49:58 <__kerbal__> zzo38: Is there a web viewer for gopher?
22:50:13 <__kerbal__> Do you have to download something to read pages in that protocol?
22:50:30 <ais523> gopher predates the web and has a similar format
22:50:37 <ais523> *a similar purpose
22:50:52 <ais523> Firefox used to have a gopher viewer as well as an http viewer, I'm not sure if it still does
22:51:21 <zzo38> __kerbal__: Yes, although an alternative, if you do not wish to do that, is to just change "gopher://" to "http://" and remove the 0, and then the same file is accessible over HTTP
22:51:21 <__kerbal__> Is there an online viewer?
22:51:27 <__kerbal__> oh, ok
22:51:36 <__kerbal__> thanks
22:53:18 <Warrigal_> shachaf: ooh, that's a good one.
22:55:21 <__kerbal__> zzo38: why would an airport need newsgroups?
22:55:30 <__kerbal__> Or private telephone numbers?
22:55:39 <fizzie> ais523: I think it was dropped already before they embarked on the big version numbers.
22:55:43 <__kerbal__> (It's a fascinatingly esoteric idea, by the way)
22:56:25 <ais523> I can easily imagine an airport benefitting from private telephone numbers, most big organizations do
22:56:44 <__kerbal__> Well, yes... THAT's true
22:56:57 <__kerbal__> Why would a private telephone number need a newgroup?
22:57:12 <__kerbal__> newsgroup
22:58:43 -!- boily has joined.
22:58:45 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
22:58:52 <zzo38> The telephone numbers are not necessarily going to be private; they could have public access, and that is the point of the un0.tel.* hierarchy, in case it is necessary that that newsgroup has a central server which is accessible by telephone instead of internet. Note that Unusenet does not actually require internet, although internet will probably be the most common case anyways.
22:58:56 <ais523> OK, clearly I took the less insane reading of the ambiguous sentence by default, and given that this is #esoteric I shouldn't have done
22:59:18 <zzo38> If there is anything unclear, notify me so that I may correct it.
22:59:58 <__kerbal__> oh, so the clients would connect by telephone?
23:00:06 <__kerbal__> that's a neat idea
23:01:24 <zzo38> __kerbal__: Potentially, although they do not have to. There could be an echo on a server accessible over the internet too, although such a name is specifying that that newsgroup has a central server and that the specified way of accessing it is by telephone.
23:02:06 <__kerbal__> So, would un0.icao.* connect by airplane mail, and un0.icbm.* connect by intercontinental ballistic missile?
23:02:24 <__kerbal__> I wouldn't want to host a server using the latter protocol if so
23:02:25 <zzo38> No. In those cases, no central server is specified.
23:02:29 <__kerbal__> ok
23:03:00 <__kerbal__> Seriously, though, is icbm intended to be the location of the server?
23:03:08 <__kerbal__> physically?
23:04:35 <__kerbal__> is it just a location for the point of it?
23:04:46 <ais523> __kerbal__: the missiles wouldn't need a warhead
23:04:51 <ais523> you could just put USB sticks on them or something
23:04:59 <boily> hezzo38, his523, __kerbello__.
23:05:10 <__kerbal__> helloily
23:05:38 <Mew_> https://gyazo.com/4433433d420bd66d5014589959bf81f9
23:05:40 <zzo38> It is just a location for the point of it when it is defined, although the server may be physically located there, and you may use disks to transfer messages to/from that server if necessary, although none of these things are required; the location when defined is mainly for uniqueness.
23:05:44 <__kerbal__> ais523: Still, you're LAUNCHING ICBM'S AT SOMEONE!
23:06:04 <__kerbal__> I hope there are parachutes involved
23:06:06 <ais523> it actually strikes me as a fairly secure method of communication
23:06:18 <ais523> nobody's going to try to recover those things intact if they don't already know they're for sending data
23:06:24 <ais523> and an interception of the message is pretty obvious
23:06:27 <__kerbal__> I think they actually tried something similar
23:06:42 <__kerbal__> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_mail
23:06:58 <Mew_> damn, need to figure out how to loop through a, well loop and get the value at the end of the loop and stick it into a variable
23:07:27 <__kerbal__> Would be really cool, just slightly dangerous
23:07:37 <zzo38> ais523: Well, yes you can do that; it is not prohibited by the specification of Unusenet (even though that isn't the intention of the un0.icbm.* hierarchy, the protocol won't stop you from doing this anyways).
23:07:39 <__kerbal__> if the parachute failed
23:08:12 <ais523> I'm actually imagining aiming at a lake or the like
23:08:19 <ais523> then you just scoop the missile out of the lake after it lands
23:08:23 <zzo38> Practicalities, dangerous like that, cost, etc, may stop you, but the protocol of Unusenet does not stop you.
23:08:38 <__kerbal__> ais523: That might be safer
23:08:42 <Mew_> or send it under the radar, and noone will know
23:08:47 <Mew_> you need no security then
23:08:51 <__kerbal__> Mew_: That works
23:09:35 <zzo38> But you cannot send a missile to that address anyways, because the address points to the past, not the future.
23:11:04 <__kerbal__> zzo38: Can't you just omit the time part in programming your missile?
23:11:23 <Mew_> just change it relative to earth rotation and shit
23:12:12 <zzo38> __kerbal__: I suppose so.
23:12:37 <__kerbal__> (I really like this idea. I'm heading to NORAD and seeing if they can loan me a test ICBM)
23:12:58 <Mew_> can I come with you? but you have to ring the doorbell.
23:13:03 <Mew_> I am to scared
23:14:16 <__kerbal__> Maybe we can organize a delegation to head over to NORAD and ask for missiles in the name of the esolang community
23:14:29 <__kerbal__> for the good of all of us except the ones who are dead
23:15:02 <zzo38> The name "un0.icbm.*" only indicates that it is the "missile address" hierarchy though, not necessarily that you are using actual missiles.
23:15:13 <__kerbal__> zzo38: killjoy
23:15:42 <zzo38> But like I said, the Unusenet protocol does not prohibit you from using actual missiles, either.
23:15:50 <__kerbal__> hooray!
23:16:34 <__kerbal__> Mew_: So what's your esolang?
23:17:52 <Mew_> Its brainfuck, but instead of the pointer position being saved between writes, it resets. and then you move pointer through a 80 character alphabet with + and -, it also includes a kind of ACC function that exists in asm
23:17:59 <Mew_> but its not really working properly
23:18:06 <Mew_> only the basic stuff
23:18:12 <Mew_> need to figure the looping out
23:18:35 <__kerbal__> What are the pointer commands?
23:18:51 <Mew_> +, - and .
23:19:19 <Mew_> + adds to the position of the pointer and - subtracts, then . writes the current character to a stream
23:19:26 <Mew_> and ; creates a new line
23:19:30 <__kerbal__> How do you move the data pointer if it resets itself?
23:20:05 <Mew_> well, lets say you want to write "ABC" then you would have this "+.++.+++."
23:20:27 <__kerbal__> ah
23:20:43 <Mew_> instead of what brainfuck would have
23:20:46 <__kerbal__> so + and - are increment and decrement commands
23:20:50 <Mew_> yep
23:20:56 <ais523> does this actually have a tape? or are you just incrementing a single value?
23:21:06 <__kerbal__> ais523: That's exactly what I'm wondering
23:21:17 <Mew_> yes, it does
23:21:25 <Mew_> and adding or subtracting scrolls the tape
23:21:45 <__kerbal__> so, what would the tape look like after the ABC code?
23:22:12 -!- sebbu has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:22:42 -!- sebbu has joined.
23:23:37 <Mew_> Well, ok so it doesnt really have a tape, but for that specific character it does. so after you have written (lets say e) which is "+++++." then it would reset, so if you want an F now you would have to do "++++++."
23:24:08 <Mew_> I am not really sure what you mean by tape, new here. But I read the esolang article
23:24:20 <__kerbal__> Are you familiar with the C array?
23:24:39 <Mew_> I'm very new to C/C++
23:24:45 <Mew_> so, vaguele
23:24:48 <Mew_> so, vaguely*
23:25:02 <__kerbal__> The C# array is very similar
23:25:09 <__kerbal__> I see you use C#?
23:25:11 <Mew_> Ye
23:25:13 <Mew_> yep
23:25:31 <__kerbal__> Ok, so basically a tape is like an array that stores integers.
23:25:59 <__kerbal__> Tapes can be arbitrary length in some langs, though\
23:26:02 <__kerbal__> though
23:26:58 <Mew_> It doesn't store the last character that you wrote if that is what you mean. I want to implement that by the loop, so if you want something that you previously wrote, you need to access the saved variable in acc.
23:27:34 <Mew_> and to add store a value in acc I want to add the loop [ code ] so that the value at ] would be stored
23:27:40 <__kerbal__> I believe the acc you are talking about may be a stack or a queue (maybe even a deque)
23:27:52 <Mew_> yeah
23:28:52 <__kerbal__> stacks and queues are like tapes, but you access them from the ends instead of from within
23:29:52 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:30:02 <Mew_> ah, I see
23:31:35 <__kerbal__> You might be able to use c# arrays to simulate a tape
23:31:51 <__kerbal__> or stack
23:31:59 <__kerbal__> for a stack, a list would be better
23:31:59 <Mew_> That is interesting, because I didnt think of that when I started this evening
23:32:12 <Mew_> but now I think that is the way I should take
23:33:45 <__kerbal__> By the way, if you are having trouble with the C# implementation, Python might be easier
23:34:03 <Mew_> ACC is a registry that stores a value in op codes, and so when you call SUB or ADD it will subtract or add to the ACC registry, that was the way I was planning to go
23:34:40 <Mew_> Ah, see now. I learned Python after I had just learned batch as a kid, but C# kind of took over and suppressed it
23:34:57 <Mew_> but I remember batch clear as day
23:36:25 <__kerbal__> So, without a tape, would your language have an ACC and another accumulator that you have been using already?
23:39:01 <__kerbal__> (The one that +, -, and . have been operating on)
23:39:03 <Mew_> Yep, so it could do subtraction, addition, multiplication and division
23:39:49 <__kerbal__> Interesting; see the bottom of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Stack
23:40:03 <__kerbal__> wait, never mind
23:40:06 <__kerbal__> That's about stacks
23:40:12 <__kerbal__> You need accumulators
23:40:39 <__kerbal__> I think you need a tape or a stack or something like that for a TC language
23:40:43 <__kerbal__> unbounded memory
23:40:59 <__kerbal__> with only 2 accumulators, you'd only have two variables
23:41:07 <__kerbal__> crudely speaking
23:41:07 <Mew_> yep, thats the plan
23:41:15 <Mew_> extremely hard to write code for
23:41:20 <Mew_> like brainfuck
23:41:24 <Mew_> but more brainfucky
23:42:35 <__kerbal__> BF has unbounded memory, and is TC. That means that it can execute almost any algorithm you throw at it, even if it is hard
23:42:57 <__kerbal__> I highly recommend that you implement a tape to take advantage of Turing-Completeness
23:43:11 <Mew_> I like how BF is turing complete but C isnt
23:43:50 <Mew_> Ill see what I can do. It'd be pretty cool to be able to say that I have made a turing complete language
23:44:35 <__kerbal__> About C: Some people say that it isn't TC, but in practice it is basically as TC as any other language
23:44:45 <__kerbal__> in a real-world sense
23:44:49 <alercah> not quite
23:45:15 <__kerbal__> man, my explanation was nearly flawless. What'd I get wrong?
23:45:21 <alercah> there's a critical distinction, in that a standards-compliant C implementation must have finite memory
23:45:27 <alercah> even if you have infinite physical memory available
23:45:40 <alercah> whereas BF has a theoretically infinite tape
23:46:28 <Mew_> "A programming language that is Turing complete is theoretically capable of expressing all tasks accomplishable by computers; nearly all programming languages are Turing complete if the limitations of finite memory are ignored." According to wikipedia
23:46:32 <__kerbal__> is it because of the size_t thing?
23:46:53 <__kerbal__> Mew_: No, what he's saying is that the language itself puts a limit on memory
23:46:57 <alercah> __kerbal__: and finite pointer size
23:47:00 <alercah> *she
23:47:19 <__kerbal__> No, I'm a he
23:47:27 <alercah> but I'm not and you were talking about me
23:47:34 <__kerbal__> oh, very sorry
23:47:46 <alercah> np
23:48:04 <alercah> the standard requires there to be finitely many pointer values, and every object needs a distinct address
23:48:53 <fizzie> Insert the standard #esoteric discussion about how an implementation may allow infinite files to get around that problem.
23:49:20 <__kerbal__> fizzie: Can you do that?
23:49:43 <__kerbal__> or will we be inserting the discussion by asking that question?
23:49:43 <alercah> it's a hotly contested subject
23:49:47 <alercah> yes
23:49:50 <__kerbal__> ah
23:51:01 <fizzie> It does require files where you can seek around with a relative offset, but not (necessarily) get/set an absolute one.
23:51:21 <alercah> but fseek() has to return the current offset
23:52:04 <alercah> err, ftell()
23:52:51 <fizzie> Arguably it doesn't need to work for all files.
23:53:04 <Mew_> Well, good night. I have to magically fall asleep and wake up in the next 5 hours. Work
23:53:06 <Mew_> Ctya
23:53:09 <Mew_> Cya
23:53:21 <__kerbal__> bye
23:53:40 <Mew_> Also thanks __kerbal__ :)
23:53:50 <__kerbal__> de nada
23:53:56 -!- Mew_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:54:16 <__kerbal__> hope he finishes his language.
23:54:20 <__kerbal__> Or she
23:54:37 <__kerbal__> I keep doing that :(
23:55:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:55:21 <FireFly> that's what singular they is for
23:55:30 <__kerbal__> I hate singular they, personally
23:55:33 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:55:44 <__kerbal__> from now on, I should just use the nicks, I guess
23:55:44 <FireFly> fair, to each their own
23:55:47 <FireFly> (well err)
23:55:55 <FireFly> (I just realised the irony of using singular they in that line)
23:56:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:56:30 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
23:56:43 <boily> it's safe to assume people are themselves, up to isomorphism.
23:56:54 <__kerbal__> It looked like Mew_ created a new character set
23:57:11 <__kerbal__> for whatever that language was named
23:57:22 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TREFOIL CHICKEN).
23:57:34 <__kerbal__> Rerail, it was called
23:58:16 <__kerbal__> space was right before A
←2017-07-02 2017-07-03 2017-07-04→ ↑2017 ↑all