←2017-07-01 2017-07-02 2017-07-03→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:29:03 <__kerbal__> yeah, I wasn't impressed by hardf***
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00:30:22 <__kerbal__> It's literally just bf with renamed commands, maybe a slightly altered input thing and 2 extra commands
00:31:06 <__kerbal__> I think it may be easier
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00:32:07 <__kerbal__> not harder
00:32:59 <__kerbal__> Has Zayne ever come on #esoteric?
00:35:50 <fizzie> Have to do another scheduled fungot maintenance, sorry.
00:35:50 <fungot> fizzie: i can't really give you the ' declare' stuff in 30 seconds ( this is the
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00:43:14 <fizzie> fungot: All done, I hope.
00:43:15 <fungot> fizzie: ( which is an instruction for being a bad idea anyway :) recursive descent parsing
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01:08:35 <FireFly> ^style
01:08:35 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
01:08:39 <FireFly> figures
01:08:58 <FireFly> ^style europarl
01:08:58 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
01:09:11 <FireFly> Good evening, mr. fungot
01:09:13 <fungot> FireFly: mr president, we want to make it clear that saddam hussein is a bloodthirsty dictator who is weak and will weaken your commission’s power as a deputy within this chamber, that we should wait for the council minutes specify that the commission will inform parliament at the moment, it is better to refrain from using it. the commission will see to it that the framework agreement because it will be difficult or even impo
01:09:41 <FireFly> That looks like a pretty direct quote
01:09:52 <FireFly> to a large part
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01:31:17 <fizzie> fungot: Should the ECJ be responsible for watching over the rights of EU nationals in the UK in the future?
01:31:18 <fungot> fizzie: i welcome the fact that if we allow this committee to adopt? will its meetings be public, as the honourable member now speaking; namely, the new work which we have not asked you not to do this we must have an accurate idea of the extent to which private interests are opposed to this project.
01:33:13 <fizzie> FireFly: I don't really have a tool to decompose these, but it is at least somewhat a composite. For example, the "saddam hussein is a bloodthirsty dictator who is weak" bit is from two different places.
01:33:36 <fizzie> Admittedly both were talking about Saddam Hussein.
01:33:36 <FireFly> ah, nice
01:34:04 <fizzie> "Saddam Hussein is a bloodthirsty dictator, a real threat to peace." & "Saddam Hussein has not been so weak for ten years or so. He is a bloodthirsty dictator who is weak and who is now incapable of attacking other countries."
01:35:23 <fizzie> Followed by a switch to something else altogether: -- your candidate is weak and will weaken your Commission’s power as a whole.
01:35:46 <FireFly> it worked out surprisingly well, heh
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01:40:52 <fizzie> Europarl has a decent hit rate. I don't know if that's some sort of a comment about politics.
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01:41:45 <fizzie> fungot: So what about that generous proposal, huh?
01:41:46 <fungot> fizzie: i am very concerned that pensioners and elderly people lived through the second part, however, is the subject of forests in the mediterranean
01:42:04 <__kerbal__> fungot: How did you feel about Brexit?
01:42:06 <fungot> __kerbal__: mr president, commissioner, do you not think that it is a step towards establishing the future european police college will be taken to put an end to the bloodshed. we believe crime must be done without any complexes of an ideological or any other european institution, should be developed in this country, there are three points but i mainly want to mention that we were deeply disappointed that it did not prove possi
01:42:28 <__kerbal__> so... fungot is pro-Brexit or pro-crime?
01:42:29 <fungot> __kerbal__: i would like to ask whether he perhaps needs an aspirin c. i should like to highlight an incident of a completely uniform system. if, however, unable to allow this, whilst shipowners who can purchase ships at far below their cost price come out on top.
01:43:00 <fizzie> Pro-ships.
01:43:27 <__kerbal__> What other styles does fungot have?
01:43:28 <fungot> __kerbal__: mr president, in the clearest terms from the commission, although any such external affairs commissioner should of course have delayed our rescue operation as we would have promised and agreed things which cannot be achieved already through regional conferences. i referred earlier, during my visit to london, there was not enough to replace those of the european union
01:43:33 <fizzie> ^style
01:43:33 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl* ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
01:43:47 <fizzie> Not all of them work particularly well.
01:43:52 <__kerbal__> Can I try one?
01:44:46 <fizzie> Sure, there's strong precedent in letting that particular bot spam the channel. (You can do it in privmsg, but you'll hit the at-most-four-replies-in-a-row limit pretty fast.)
01:44:58 <__kerbal__> ^style youtube
01:44:58 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
01:45:04 <__kerbal__> How are you, fungot?
01:45:04 <fungot> __kerbal__: meh shes not what you'd expect! turning a game? and how much has happened over the last clips there werent hardly any people...its fake?
01:45:10 <__kerbal__> oh, wow
01:45:21 <__kerbal__> okay...
01:45:46 * __kerbal__ sees the dark side of YouTube embodied
01:46:04 <fizzie> That one is like from a total of 3 videos (the data was collected by someone else, and crawled manually), so it can be a little samey.
01:46:13 <fizzie> At least one of them was a plane crash.
01:46:22 <fizzie> fungot: Those pilots did a great job though, right?
01:46:22 <fungot> fizzie: you asshole i was 19 when this came on!!! lol i dribbled might will be a model. first, i wouldn't even care that you actually spoke when not authorized? stfu yourself slam-mules-ass.
01:46:32 <fizzie> Well, that's very YouTube.
01:46:39 <__kerbal__> it is
01:46:45 <__kerbal__> ^style alice
01:46:45 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
01:46:49 <__kerbal__> oh, no
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01:46:59 <__kerbal__> fungot, what is a jabberwocky?
01:46:59 <fungot> __kerbal__: " but what's the good of having six legs, my dear, i turned cold to the very moment that she picked them? even real scented rushes, you know, they hadn't any feet.
01:47:41 <doesthiswork> source texts does FUNGOT use?
01:48:00 <doesthiswork> s//What
01:48:04 <fizzie> There's no canonical list. A bunch are from Project Gutenberg.
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01:48:58 <fizzie> Europarl, Enron and sms are freely available corpora. 'fisher' I sneaked out of my former university.
01:49:29 <doesthiswork> enron has a corpus?
01:49:42 <fizzie> It's the Enron email leak.
01:49:48 <__kerbal__> ^style enron
01:49:48 <fungot> Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset)
01:50:12 <doesthiswork> excellent choice
01:50:18 <fizzie> Sorry, not really a "leak", it became public as part of that one investigation.
01:50:35 <fizzie> Many of the styles didn't get enough cleaning-up and unformatting done, so they can be pretty messy.
01:50:43 <fizzie> fungot: Are you engaged in any suspicious business practices?
01:50:44 <fungot> fizzie: the value of the free world thank goodness we don?t have. swd joe richards, and above mentioned questions on the espeak site
01:50:54 <doesthiswork> do you think you could add nixen's tapes as well?
01:52:12 <fizzie> 'ct' and 'ff7' are fan-made trascripts of the corresponding games, 'nethack' is from NetHack data files, 'wp' is from the Wikipedia XML dump (1% talk page sample), the webcomics are I think mostly crawled from their wikia wikis.
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01:52:38 <doesthiswork> which webcomics?
01:52:58 <fizzie> homestuck, iwcs, pa, qwantz.
01:53:30 <fizzie> Oh, and oots.
01:55:31 <doesthiswork> google says that this is the only place irregular web comics strips gets abbreviated to iwcs
01:56:36 <fizzie> It's actually IWC-S, to distinguish it from IWC-[something else], but the other one didn't really work at all so I never installed it.
01:56:51 <fizzie> Where 'S' stands from 'script', possibly.
01:56:59 <fizzie> The 'ct' style has generated some memorable quotes, though it lost some of its personality when I fixed a bug that was biasing the probabilities and leading it to get stuck in a loop often.
01:57:11 <fizzie> ^style ct
01:57:11 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
01:57:13 <fizzie> fungot: Can that sword alone stop it?
01:57:13 <fungot> fizzie: to the northwest of this cape. he took back the medal from the frog king. and i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself!
01:57:32 <fizzie> fungot: Yeah, it's quite a sight. But can it stop it?
01:57:32 <fungot> fizzie: is the gate key okay!! get' em! 200g per night. care, and stay...healthy! my husband...he's...he's...gone... but he left me precious gifts! the seeds...and our child, it's ancient history now...!
01:57:47 <doesthiswork> nice
01:57:51 <fizzie> (It's still pretty repetitive, there's not that much content.)
01:58:08 <__kerbal__> ^style sms
01:58:08 <fungot> Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20)
01:58:14 <__kerbal__> fungot, how are you?
01:58:15 <fungot> __kerbal__: da i hav clas), just giveme the total value. create a contact on indyarocks.com
01:58:25 <__kerbal__> oh wow
01:58:29 <fizzie> There's a lot of SMS shorthand in that one.
01:58:34 <fizzie> fungot: how r u?
01:58:34 <fungot> fizzie: if i start sending blackberry... c u at nyt...
01:58:50 <__kerbal__> fungot is stupid
01:58:51 <fungot> __kerbal__: just in time to rehearse for the bestpresentation demo. i only ask abt dat piano class 2rw... bt girisha.)
01:59:03 <__kerbal__> It didn't react as harshly as I hoped
01:59:13 <__kerbal__> (I was just trying to get a rise out of it)
01:59:27 <__kerbal__> it's actually really cool
01:59:29 <doesthiswork> fungot wtf
01:59:30 <fungot> doesthiswork: hey in arasur:-) 2) 3) pass this to people including me. a blessing. fr. japan is say only
01:59:56 <doesthiswork> fungot pokemon sucks
01:59:56 <fungot> doesthiswork: i want to sent mesages. but u'l talk to ya. mery dant rahi? erik needs it
02:00:26 <__kerbal__> fungot bye
02:00:27 <fungot> __kerbal__: in a party in tarpon springs cuts at chap 2 lor! thank you star i see tonight second show:-)
02:00:37 <__kerbal__> That actually made some sense
02:00:42 <__kerbal__> fungot good morning
02:00:42 <fungot> __kerbal__: sorry i am in practice. be there in a minute. i go toilet first... where u? starting to become an issue... maybe i stay in xinrou house hibernate.outside wet just for me. happy to help anytime :)
02:01:00 <__kerbal__> "i go toilet first"
02:02:03 <fizzie> I don't think the majority of the people who donated to that corpus were native English speakers.
02:02:27 <shachaf> ^style
02:02:28 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms* speeches ss wp youtube
02:02:36 <shachaf> ^style qwantz
02:02:36 <fungot> Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011)
02:02:49 <shachaf> fungot: now that's how you speak english
02:02:49 <fungot> shachaf: at a speed of over eight hundred thousand things to save the city, and the skyline is dominated by billboards, ads like that burn my biscuits, pal, or go to an early gravy! wait, what the heck's going on?
02:03:30 <oerjan> (surely iwc must be crawled from the site itself, it has most meticulous transcripts)
02:03:52 <fizzie> oerjan: Yeah, it probably is.
02:04:04 <fizzie> And I think the same is true for homestuck.
02:04:40 <fizzie> I don't even have the source materials for many of these styles, since I trained a bunch of the models at the university.
02:05:18 <zzo38> I got a segmentation fault when using valgrind. Is it supposed to do that?
02:05:39 <shachaf> A segementation fault can mean a lot of things.
02:05:43 <__kerbal__> ^style iwcs
02:05:43 <fungot> Selected style: iwcs (Irregular Webcomic scripts)
02:05:55 <__kerbal__> fungot: No, I am your mother
02:05:55 <fungot> __kerbal__: how do you keep doing that?! pointing to the skeletal in some depictions, this transition can take place anywhere, and a killer taipan
02:06:05 <__kerbal__> (no D&D)
02:06:10 <__kerbal__> I guess
02:06:37 <fizzie> Probably not.
02:06:53 <__kerbal__> what is nethack?
02:07:23 <shachaf> what is Google™ Search™?
02:07:26 <fizzie> ^style nethack
02:07:26 <fungot> Selected style: nethack (NetHack 3.4.3 data.base, rumors.tru, rumors.fal)
02:07:27 <fizzie> fungot: Are cockatrices good to eat?
02:07:27 <fungot> fizzie: pelias: conan cried out sharply and recoiled, thrusting his companion uneasily. " its outer surface will be very pleased if you thought the wizard will give you a gentleman?
02:07:41 <shachaf> what is a grouch?
02:07:43 <doesthiswork> a game where you play a hacker trying to create a botnet
02:08:05 <fizzie> fungot: Should I zap myself with a random wand?
02:08:05 <fungot> fizzie: they say that some potions contain a ghost inside! i'm being held prisoner in a linear combination has no really scaring effect whatsoever, ( chapter epsilon), and the lord rose and went forth halting; but there were five tall figures: two standing on the peels.
02:08:26 <fizzie> Being held prisoner in a linear combination sounds plenty scary to me.
02:08:40 <fizzie> Probably something to do with the matrix of whateveritwas.
02:10:06 <shachaf> `? matrix of solidity
02:10:07 <HackEgo> matrix of solidity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:10:12 <doesthiswork> where does linear combination appear in the corpus?
02:10:13 <__kerbal__> fizzie: is it in R2 or R3? I think I'd be ok with the latter...
02:11:05 <fizzie> doesthiswork: data.base, "s*d*g*r* cat".
02:11:22 <fizzie> "To the outside observer, the cat is indeed in a linear combination of being alive and dead, --"
02:11:31 <doesthiswork> ah
02:11:34 <shachaf> fizzie: https://cmubash.org/?1491 hth
02:12:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Hardfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52381&oldid=52377 * Zzo38 * (+216)
02:13:41 <fizzie> The "held prisoner" part came from the fortune cookie that says "Help! I'm being held prisoner in a fortune cookie factory!", which incidentally is technically counted as a false rumour.
02:14:25 <doesthiswork> how do we know that it is false
02:15:15 <fizzie> The five tall figures are Nazgûl, though in the original source material two of them weren't, in fact, standing on banana peels.
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02:20:58 <oerjan> . o O ( what about the other 3 )
02:21:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Hardfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52382&oldid=52381 * Kerbal * (+444)
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03:17:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kerbal * uploaded "[[File:Integ-Logo.JPEG]]"
03:18:02 <shachaf> `5 w
03:18:08 <HackEgo> 1/2:hppavilion_m//hppavilion_m is the hppavilions modulo m \ compiler//A compiler (lit. “with-piler”) is one who builds piles together with someone else. \ schaf//"Schaf" is german for "sheep". There is absolutely no relation to shachaf. \ phantom_hoover//Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop. \ Я/
03:18:26 <shachaf> `n
03:18:27 <HackEgo> 2/2:/Я is the 9th letter of the hsilgnE alphabet
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03:34:00 <\oren\> in japan cats say "nyan" and meow means you look good
03:34:38 <shachaf> `? cats
03:34:39 <HackEgo> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
03:34:41 <shachaf> true
03:49:30 <shachaf> `5 w
03:49:36 <HackEgo> 1/3:heffalump//A heffalump is similar to a lump of sugar, but with honey instead. \ qdb//qdb is used like: `quote; `quote regexp; `quote id; `addquote ...; `delquote id; `pastequotes regexp; `pastenquotes [n]; see also quoteformat \ colour//Colour is a phenomenoun froum outeur spacue designeu
03:49:40 <shachaf> `n
03:49:41 <HackEgo> 2/3:d to drivue humanituy insanue and brinug fortuh the new age of Cthulhu. \ wumpus//Wumpus the Hunted is an early 70s action game in which the Wumpus is trapped in a dodecahedral labyrinth where it's chased by bats. It has to avoid traps and evade magical arrows that
03:49:42 <shachaf> `n
03:49:43 <HackEgo> 3/3: are guided by a nefarious AI. \ protocoal//Protocoal is a bit of a wooden pun.
03:50:05 <shachaf> `? rules of wisdom
03:50:06 <HackEgo> unless essential for the entry‘s humor, should: be understandable without the lookup key, be single spaced and end in a newline with no space before that, and use proper capitalization and punctuation
03:50:24 <shachaf> oerjan: I guess colour doesn't break the rules!
03:50:38 <shachaf> `` \? color; echo a
03:50:39 <HackEgo> Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. \ a
03:57:11 <oerjan> `slwd color//s,$,,
03:57:13 <HackEgo> color//Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu.
03:57:17 <oerjan> `slwd colour//s,$,,
03:57:19 <HackEgo> colour//Colour is a phenomenoun froum outeur spacue designeud to drivue humanituy insanue and brinug fortuh the new age of Cthulhu.
03:58:18 <oerjan> `` \? color; echo a
03:58:20 <HackEgo> Color is a phenomenon from outer space designed to drive humanity insane and bring forth the new age of Cthulhu. \ a
03:58:50 <oerjan> `` grwp -l '.*[^]$'
03:59:00 <HackEgo> brilliant \ logs \ piet \ tip \ tmp
03:59:23 <oerjan> `` \? brilliant; echo a
03:59:24 <HackEgo> B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ ̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ ̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ ͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ ͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ ̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ ͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ ̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ ̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ ͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ ̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ ̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ ̺͌c̑͡h
03:59:33 <oerjan> :D
04:00:04 <oerjan> `` \? logs; echo a
04:00:06 <HackEgo> I think you might mean !logs \ a
04:00:19 <shachaf> `1 \? logs; echo a
04:00:21 <HackEgo> 1/1:I think you might mean !logs \ a
04:00:26 <oerjan> `slwd logs//s,$,,
04:00:29 <HackEgo> logs//I think you might mean !logs
04:00:49 <oerjan> `` \? piet; echo a
04:00:50 <HackEgo> Piet is a really colourful programming language. \ a
04:00:54 <\oren\> why is hackego suddenly all colorful
04:01:14 <oerjan> \oren\: because we're checking for wisdoms that start color without ending it
04:01:24 <oerjan> which messes up listing several in a row
04:01:38 <\oren\> ic
04:01:55 <oerjan> `` \? tip; echo a
04:01:57 <HackEgo> A tip is [ $ ] if you're American, [ £ ] if you're British, and if you're Japanese. \ a
04:02:06 <zzo38> I think you should please get rid of the colours, with the possible exception of the entry for "color" and "colour"
04:02:10 <oerjan> `` \? tmp; echo a
04:02:11 <HackEgo> tmp/ is a directory for files that are not worth saving in HackEgo history, but which should still outlive a single command. NOTE: It interacts funnily with HackEgo's lock and re-run commit check; files can DISAPPEAR if you don't know what you're doing. Basically, don't modify files inside and outside tmp/ in the same HackEgo command. \ a
04:02:33 <shachaf> not enough <blink>
04:02:33 <oerjan> zzo38: they're essential for tip and tmp
04:02:50 <oerjan> and piet, i think.
04:03:17 <oerjan> brilliant is _supposed_ to look annoying.
04:03:25 <oerjan> but i guess logs could drop them.
04:03:34 <oerjan> !logs
04:03:43 <oerjan> it's an obsolete wisdom anyhow
04:04:24 <zzo38> Yes, keep it for piet and if brilliant is supposed to look annoying that too. Remove for the others, including tip and tmp
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04:05:08 <oerjan> it's in tmp to mark a warning. tip would be entirely meaningless without the colors.
04:05:49 <oerjan> ok maybe not _entirely_, but much less visual.
04:06:15 <shachaf> Are tips a common thing in the UK?
04:06:23 <shachaf> I was under the impression that they're much less expected.
04:06:31 <oerjan> `learn Logs: see channel topic.
04:06:34 <HackEgo> Relearned 'log': Logs: see channel topic.
04:06:36 <oerjan> oops
04:06:43 <oerjan> `before
04:06:52 <HackEgo> wisdom/log//I think you might mean !logs
04:07:01 <oerjan> oh it was right
04:07:23 <shachaf> `? logs
04:07:24 <HackEgo> I think you might mean !logs
04:07:31 <shachaf> `? log
04:07:33 <HackEgo> Logs: see channel topic.
04:07:36 <oerjan> `forget logs
04:07:38 <HackEgo> Forget what?
04:09:48 <oerjan> `` grwp -l '[^]*$'
04:09:50 <HackEgo> brilliant \ tip
04:09:58 <oerjan> hm
04:10:10 <oerjan> `` cat -v wisdom/tip
04:10:11 <HackEgo> A tip is ^C0,3[ $ ]^C if you're American, ^C12[ M-BM-# ]^C if you're British, and if you're Japanese.
04:11:06 <oerjan> `slwd tip//s, if, if,
04:11:07 <HackEgo> tip//A tip is [ $ ] if you're American, [ £ ] if you're British, and if you're Japanese.
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04:11:47 <oerjan> `slwd brilliant//s,$,,
04:11:49 <HackEgo> brilliant//B҉ͭR̲̞Iͪ͞L̡͠L̝̊I̤ͣA̍҉N̏́T̈͡ ̐̇ȉ̲s̉̐ ̸̉ḷ̂i̪̱k͉ͬḛ็ ͓̪t็ͬh̺̊e͜͢ ͏͛B̈ͅE̳̘S̰ͤTͬͧ ̰̕w̺̼o̷̓ŕ͂d̹̠ ͍͑i͚̾n̺̮ ̇͑t͗̍hͧ͌ḙ͕ ̻͜ű̖ňͤi̴͠v̸̧ḛ͔ř̭s͍͠ẻ̗ ͏̲a̮̺nͣ͟d̝ͨ ̳͗i̟͘ẗ͎ ̼̲ẘ̦i̭ͮl̢̋l̨̉ ͌
04:12:10 <oerjan> it doesn't matter because it's obviously too long, but that makes the grwp clean.
04:12:16 <oerjan> `` grwp -l '[^]*$'
04:12:17 <HackEgo> tip
04:12:37 <oerjan> oh
04:12:41 <oerjan> missed /g
04:12:52 <oerjan> `slwd tip//s, if, if,g
04:12:54 <HackEgo> tip//A tip is [ $ ] if you're American, [ £ ] if you're British, and if you're Japanese.
04:12:59 <oerjan> `` grwp -l '[^]*$'
04:13:00 <HackEgo> No output.
04:13:03 <oerjan> THAR
04:13:32 <oerjan> shachaf: now all wisdoms are `5 compliant hth
04:14:13 <oerjan> `wisdom ngevd
04:14:14 <HackEgo> ngevd//ngevd is a fake wisdom entry because having an actual infinite file in wisdom/ makes all manner of stuff bloody awkward. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ also t​swett‼
04:15:23 <oerjan> that seems tricky to "fix"
04:15:56 <oerjan> (as in, can't spout an infinite file either)
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05:14:57 <shachaf> `5 w
05:15:03 <HackEgo> 1/2:marmite//Marmite is a hive mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth. \ erlang//Erlang has tricked people into loving global mutable variables while pretending to embrace immutability. \ mips//MIPS Is Popular in Schools. \ links//links is one of the very few HTML renderers that doesn't try to store
05:15:15 <shachaf> `n
05:15:16 <HackEgo> 2/2:a full document tree with heavyweight objects for each node just in case javascript wants to modify it later, so it's the only engine that can render those HTMLs that are automatically converted from a PDF and put each letter in a separate element. \ log//Logs: see channel topic.
05:16:11 <shachaf> `cwlprits erlang
05:16:19 <HackEgo> oerjän Sgëo
05:16:44 <shachaf> `dowg mips
05:16:51 <HackEgo> 4034:2013-11-20 <oerjän> learn MIPS Is Popular in Schools. \ 4033:2013-11-20 <boil̈y> learn MIPS Is Popular In Schools.
05:17:26 <shachaf> `slwd mips//sSchoolsSingaporeS
05:17:28 <HackEgo> mips//MIPS Is Popular in Singapore.
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05:50:37 <oerjan> `slwd mips//sPopularProhibitedP
05:50:39 <HackEgo> mips//MIPS Is Prohibited in Singapore.
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06:16:38 <shachaf> Cale: Did you invent your fancy better-than-SQL query language yet?
06:16:56 <Cale> shachaf: not yet, no
06:17:10 <shachaf> What do you think it would be like?
06:17:15 <Cale> shachaf: Though Ryan's been working on some cool stuff, and I'm excited to see how that turns out
06:17:30 <shachaf> Based on relations or something else?
06:17:46 <Cale> He's using Conal's constrained categories stuff to translate nearly arbitrary Haskell code into SQL queries
06:18:27 <shachaf> SQL is simultaneously remarkably expressive and frustratingly unexpressive.
06:18:59 <Cale> With the hope being that we can avoid our current issue of needing to write everything twice: once in Haskell to filter a bunch of Maps and once in SQL to pull stuff out of the DB
06:19:24 <shachaf> That's good, but I care about query languages in a cross-language way.
06:19:40 <shachaf> I don't think all code should be in Haskell.
06:19:59 <Cale> I only think almost all code should be in Haskell
06:20:44 <shachaf> Cale: Maybe you should go work for Target with conal and all the Haskell people there.
06:21:01 <Cale> Maybe, but Obsidian is pretty nice too
06:50:52 <Taneb> Cale, what do Obsidian do? Unless you're, like, working in an Elder Scrolls game, which is cool too I guess
06:54:36 <Cale> Taneb: Obsidian Systems -- we build web and mobile applications for various clients, entirely in Haskell, and using Reflex and Reflex-DOM.
06:57:44 <shachaf> Taneb: maybe you should work at target hth
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07:03:06 <Taneb> shachaf, does Target write any Haskell in Europe
07:03:25 <Taneb> Cale, that sounds pretty cool!
07:03:31 <shachaf> I think they have various remote employees using Haskell, including one in India?
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07:12:29 <oerjan> . o O ( is shikhin that employee )
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12:43:38 <__kerbal__> hi
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12:49:59 <boily> `w
12:50:00 <HackEgo> potatoes//You are not allowed to take potatoes to Norway without a special permit.
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13:07:21 <quintopia> helloily
13:07:46 <quintopia> did you have a good canadia day
13:07:57 <boily> quinthellopia!
13:09:08 <boily> long live the Queen, our PM (Photogenic Minister), mapoles, and plein d'affaires de même!
13:10:51 <quintopia> that idiom seems hard to translate
13:11:29 <boily> “and lots of things like that”.
13:12:14 <quintopia> oh. Canada!
13:12:21 <__kerbal__> it sounds like "lots of the affairs of memes." I didn't know that memes had things to do
13:13:04 <quintopia> google translated it as "same business"
13:13:23 <boily> __kerbello__.
13:13:41 <__kerbal__> bo-hi-ly
13:14:12 <quintopia> did u have fireworks?
13:14:33 <boily> it was quite rainy. there may have been fireworks somewhere?
13:14:40 <__kerbal__> In the US, actually
13:14:41 <quintopia> sesquicentennially?
13:14:50 <__kerbal__> We had fireworks yesterday
13:15:00 <__kerbal__> for our independence day
13:15:12 <quintopia> well good for you
13:15:21 <__kerbal__> but also apparently for canada day
13:16:09 <__kerbal__> Maybe the fireworks planners were evil Canadians trying to take over the municipal government
13:16:20 <boily> we ain't evil, eh.
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13:16:51 <__kerbal__> poutine seems like a diabolical attempt to make people obese, from what I hear
13:17:21 <shachaf> I am the very model of a photogenic minister, / I've information ominous, mysterious, and sinister,
13:18:14 <boily> __kerbal__: it's tasty, makes you happy, and best enjoyed at 3am!
13:18:17 <boily> helloochaf ♪
13:18:50 <__kerbal__> I've actually never tried it.
13:19:26 <shachaf> I don't know enough about Canadian politics to make a good Trudeau song.
13:19:59 <int-e> `? limerick
13:20:00 <HackEgo> limerick? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:20:32 <shachaf> But you can make a rhyme with "administer", and maybe also use "sinister" to refer to his political leanings.
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13:27:04 <quintopia> and fenester to describe one possible method of assassination
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13:38:43 <__kerbal__> As part of the upcoming Integ 1.3 release, Integ now features a standard library!
13:40:44 <shachaf> As a poetry form, you must know it; / You're nearly a limerick poet. / But if you are a cheater, / and don't fit the meter, / You're gonna blow it.
13:44:09 <shachaf> I guess s/you are/you're/
13:44:22 <shachaf> int-e: y/n
13:58:35 <shachaf> Could use some touch ups.
13:58:39 <shachaf> But I'm going to sleep.
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15:30:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Kerbal * uploaded "[[File:Integ-Logo1.jpeg]]"
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15:46:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52385&oldid=52380 * Kerbal * (+27)
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18:26:24 <shikhin> < oerjan> [02:12:29] . o O ( is shikhin that employee ) <- /me blinks.
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18:41:00 <* Taneb> is in Cambridge
18:41:56 * alercah is in London
18:43:07 <Taneb> That's closer to me than has previously been the case!
18:43:49 <alercah> yes!
18:44:23 <alercah> only briefly though
19:02:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[FFM/FFB]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52386&oldid=52215 * Enoua5 * (+2285) Added FFB examples
19:08:30 <zzo38> Do you like my design of Unusenet?
19:11:11 <zzo38> What kind of NNTP server softwares can you suggest using?
19:12:15 <zzo38> (It is possible for a NNTP server to implement both Usenet and Unusenet, because there are no namespace collisions.)
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19:27:49 <__kerbal__> wob_jonas: Integbot is on. If you want, I can should you op definitions and the new package system
19:27:55 <__kerbal__> show
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19:44:46 <wob_jonas> ) -
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20:23:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * Kerbal * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Integ-Logo1.jpeg]]": Smaller
20:25:04 <Warrigal_> Cale: hey, I thought I was the one creating the fancy better-than-SQL query language. :D
20:25:13 <Warrigal_> I don't care who creates it; I just care that it be created.
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20:25:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52388&oldid=52385 * Kerbal * (+11)
20:26:45 <__kerbal__> What do you think about the logo?
20:27:30 <Warrigal_> Btw, the week of July 3 is an odd week.
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20:41:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Integ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52389&oldid=52388 * Kerbal * (+1869) Added info for 1.3
20:52:37 <\oren\> Germany scorexd
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21:43:45 <Cale> Warrigal: I'm not actually working on it actively, but it is something on my mind
21:45:40 <Cale> Warrigal: One of the main things I want is that it should be able to handle sum types nicely (especially sums of other tables in the DB).
21:46:34 <Cale> Warrigal: i.e. I want to be able to have a column which refers to a record of table A, B, or C, and we know which, and the query language should let me pattern match / case on that.
21:47:12 <shachaf> Cale: Or do you want arbitrary ADTs in your database?
21:47:58 <Cale> Arbitrary algebraic data types would be nice, but I can live without recursion if it's too hard to do efficiently.
21:48:54 <Cale> and if you can do sum types like that, then doing the non-recursive part of ADTs is doable
21:49:39 <shachaf> Do you just want least fixed points or also greatest fixed points?
21:49:57 <Cale> least
21:50:37 <Cale> Actually, if you want to go crazy, a really nice idea I had was a database whose rows were dependent telescopes
21:50:55 <Cale> So the type of each subsequent column can depend on the values of the preceding columns
21:51:03 <Cale> But that's probably not easy
21:51:16 <shachaf> As an arbitrary function of the preceding columns?
21:51:35 <Cale> Well, that's to be determined
21:55:28 <Cale> Warrigal: The other thing I really want is for applications to register a collection of queries with the DB, and whenever a transaction commits which would affect the result of a registered query, the application will receive an update with the changes.
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21:56:22 <Cale> Ideally, the DB would do a bunch of stuff as the queries were registered to optimise the task of figuring out which registered queries are affected by a given commit.
21:58:13 <Cale> But the reason I want that is that then we could use an FRP system to deal with querying the database and propagating the changes that come back to everything they influence. It would clean up our application backends a lot.
21:58:46 <shachaf> What is your application again?
21:58:57 <Cale> Several different web and mobile applications
21:58:59 <shachaf> "Software solutions custom-built to suit your needs."
21:59:23 <Cale> One is a sort of competitor to slack with a bunch of additional features
21:59:24 <shachaf> Cale: You should tell whoever is in charge of https://obsidian.systems/ that autoplaying a sound when I go on your web page is really annoying.
22:01:41 <shachaf> Well, I'll tell them myself.
22:02:18 <shachaf> Cale: I want to make a web application.
22:02:22 <shachaf> Should I do it in Haskell?
22:03:50 <zzo38> I thought a web application should be done in HTML?
22:04:42 <shachaf> I mean the server side of it.
22:04:54 <shachaf> But it might also involve JavaScript, or a language that compiles to JavaScript.
22:06:07 <Cale> shachaf: Sure.
22:06:21 <Cale> I also highly recommend checking out reflex-dom :)
22:07:46 <zzo38> O, well, there is many possibilities, including C, PHP, JavaScript, SQL, Perl, Haskell, etc. For client-side should need HTML, possibly with CSS and/or JavaScript also used if needed for this application. However, I think many thing should not need web application at all, in my opinion
22:07:56 <Cale> With reflex-dom, you don't actually need HTML :)
22:08:32 <Cale> Well, at least, not more than a stub which loads the JS code
22:08:48 <Cale> Your application (which is written in Haskell and compiled to Javascript) controls the contents of the DOM
22:09:28 <Cale> You still use HTML tags and such, but you don't necessarily render any HTML to be parsed by the browser.
22:10:15 <Cale> There is a mode of operation for that though -- so that you can render static stuff on the backend (in native code) and deliver it to the frontend to be used before the JS gets loaded.
22:10:34 <zzo38> You shouldn't do that; the server should generate all of the HTML content and sent directly to the client. This is only for content that is static to the client though; for some cases you will need dynamic content, in which case you should use a script to generate it instead. For most things though you should provide static content if possible (for some applications this won't work though).
22:10:38 <Cale> Still, you don't actually have to write HTML yourself then :)
22:10:55 <shachaf> Cale: Well, I want the content to be indexed by search engines, of course.
22:10:57 <zzo38> However, you may wish to provide not only HTML interface but also perhaps JSON interface, in order if you want to write your own front-end.
22:11:08 <Cale> Well, most of our applications are single page applications which mostly communicate with a backend via websockets.
22:11:10 <shachaf> It's not quite that much of an application that it doesn't have text to be searched.
22:11:22 <Cale> Yeah
22:12:02 <shachaf> So reflex-dom uses ghcjs?
22:12:05 <Cale> yeah
22:12:15 <shachaf> I suspect the current state of ghcjs introduces unacceptable overhead.
22:12:27 <Cale> https://github.com/reflex-frp/reflex-platform is a good way to try it
22:12:28 <shachaf> Though maybe it's gotten better since I last used it.
22:12:44 <Cale> Well, depends on what you consider to be unacceptable of course
22:13:04 <zzo38> Defining a protocol with JSON or whatever (even raw TCP connections if applicable) can be better that you can also to use other custom front end programs, even if there is also a HTML-based front-end built-in too.
22:13:37 <zzo38> (Or just use the URL for that purpose, so that you can easily access with curl)
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22:14:03 <Cale> zzo38: We mostly let template Haskell generate the JSON protocol to be used from our types -- we haven't yet really had to deal with the problem of versioning our protocols though.
22:14:49 <Cale> It *is* really nice to not have to worry about the JSON encoding and decoding being correct though.
22:15:24 <Cale> For the most part, as far as I have to care about, there are just Haskell datastructures on either side of the wire.
22:16:30 <Cale> We could just as well be using a binary format for communication, but sometimes it's nice to be able to see what was sent in Chrome's inspector -- and it hides binary websocket frames from you.
22:17:37 <zzo38> But then it makes it difficult to document the JSON being used
22:19:36 <Cale> I suppose we could write another tool which took the types in question and generated documentation for the JSON rather than an encoder and decoder.
22:20:25 <Cale> But mostly this communication is internal, and while we assume people could interfere with it, we don't really care about making that easy for stuff that's not using the generated JSON encoder.
22:30:50 <Cale> shachaf: btw, I... don't hear anything when I go to obsidian.systems.
22:31:13 <shachaf> Try it in an incognito window?
22:31:17 <Cale> shachaf: Oh, maybe it's when intercom sends that initial message
22:31:17 <shachaf> I think it's only the first time.
22:31:20 <Cale> yeah
22:31:21 <shachaf> Yes.
22:32:27 <Cale> I think there's a plan to replace this site soon enough anyway, but -- that'll probably involve some intercom integration too, so I'll be sure to mention your concern :)
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23:05:38 <Warrigal_> Aw man. I just thought of a sweet mathematical property that isn't actually true.
23:07:00 <Warrigal_> For each positive integer n, the sets A = {1..n} and B = {n+1..2n} can be put in a one-to-one correspondence such that each element of B is divisible by its corresponding element of A.
23:08:33 <Warrigal_> Seems like it might be true. After all, the product of B is always divisible by the product of A.
23:08:43 <Warrigal_> But in any case, the smallest counterexample is n = 4.
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23:09:31 <Warrigal_> Come to think of it, maybe there are only finitely many n for which it *is* true.
23:10:19 <Warrigal_> n = 1: (1,2). n = 2: (1,3), (2,4). n = 3: (1,5), (2,4), (3,6). n = 5: (1,7), (2,6), (3,9), (4,8), (5,10).
23:10:44 <Warrigal_> I think from n = 6 on, B always contains more than one prime number.
23:14:52 <myname> i doubt it is correct for anything big
23:15:02 <myname> between n and 2n, there is always a prime number
23:15:12 <myname> for which you HAVE to pick 1
23:15:23 <myname> the moment you get a second prime, you are screwed
23:15:42 <myname> oh, you went there, too
23:15:48 <myname> should've read first
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23:31:06 <fizzie> Oh, something that was a little funny -- in Edinburgh there was a man camped in front of a fancy Apple store, on a folding chair, with a sign advertising "Cheaper Apple Repairs".
23:31:14 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/apple-repairs.jpg
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23:40:27 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, yeah that's a great move
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