←2017-07-13 2017-07-14 2017-07-15→ ↑2017 ↑all
00:12:40 <oerjan> <fizzie> (I wonder if oerjan's Finnish spam was related to Spotify, [...] <-- sorry, didn't pay that much attention before deleting.
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00:15:56 <\oren\> is there a name for that trick where traverse a linked list and keep track of where you are by each time you move to a child you make it point back to its parent so you can go back
00:16:36 <\oren\> if there is a name for that trick I shoudl use it for this commit messge
00:16:49 <shachaf> Zipper?
00:17:10 <shachaf> Sort of.
00:18:50 <\oren\> "made this not stack over flow by using a zipper technique instead of just recursing"
00:19:04 <\oren\> meh
00:22:18 <oerjan> \oren\: i think the "Sort of" is pretty big there.
00:22:43 <\oren\> bah noone reads my code anyway
00:22:55 <shachaf> \oren\: What does the program do?
00:23:04 <shachaf> You should post the code.
00:23:11 <oerjan> istr this being used for gc way before zippers were invented.
00:23:19 <shachaf> This isn't really zipper anyway.
00:23:22 <shachaf> But it's related?
00:23:41 <shachaf> just use an xor doubly linked list hth
00:23:42 <\oren\> reads some crap in, parses it into a tree but the tree is too big to traverse
00:24:06 <\oren\> so we need to use this stupid zippery technique to avoid stack overflows
00:24:18 <\oren\> and then outputs some other crap
00:24:47 <shachaf> imo post a simplified version twh
00:25:47 <wob_jonas> \oren\: I've heard of that trick, and I don't know how generally it can be done. I wonder if it could be used for a garbage collector following conses with arbitrary cyclical links, possibly combined with an xor trick.
00:25:54 <wob_jonas> I don't know if it had a name.
00:26:47 <oerjan> wob_jonas: that garbage collector use is where i've seen it.
00:27:45 <wob_jonas> you probably have to look in Knuth chapters 2 and 6 to see if it has a name
00:27:58 <shachaf> I went to talk by Knuth once that talked about something similar to a zipper.
00:28:09 <\oren\> ok hold on
00:28:15 <shachaf> I liked the way he had of drawing/thinking about it.
00:28:55 <wob_jonas> I'm a big fan of Knuth's books. They're so awesome.
00:29:23 <shachaf> It was this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW3vgJYYIok
00:29:33 <shachaf> I haven't read his books.
00:30:44 <\oren\> https://pastebin.com/sJEGNtjQ
00:32:33 <\oren\> now imagine that do_leaf is also doing the same thing
00:32:46 <\oren\> ...yeah...
00:35:10 <\oren\> it doesn't eliminate recursions, it just reduces the amount of recursion to manageable level
00:37:01 <\oren\> anyway, I'm certain I've seen this technique before but I don't know what it is called
00:39:49 <quintopia> helloren, helloerjan, wellob_jellonas, sholacholaf
00:43:13 <\oren\> oh now i rmember! this is basically like a tree rotation!
00:43:34 <shachaf> Sort of?
00:44:39 <\oren\> it's like a tree rotation but the tree isn't sorted by anything and we're just doing it as a stupid trick
00:48:18 <\oren\> of course normally you could jsut use tail recursion in this case, but unfortunately we want things outputted in the right order
00:51:54 <\oren\> that is to say, the same order as if it had been a recursive function where do_tree(node) { if(tag is 1) do_leaf(c0); else {do_tree(c0); do_leaf(c1);} }
00:54:32 <\oren\> which is to say, the behaviour caused by the way the original perl code was written is now the spec for the new c++ code
00:55:36 <\oren\> we want exactly the same output but faster and using less memiore
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01:02:59 <oerjan> quhintopia
01:11:45 <quintopia> o/
01:12:05 <quintopia> what have i missed the last two weeks?
01:19:13 <wob_jonas> hi quintopia
01:20:26 <oerjan> quintopia: well the wiki/HackEgo server was gone for a couple days
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01:42:48 <fizzie> It felt like a long time, but actually it was just about 2 days, 4 hours.
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04:03:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Comefrom0x10]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52421 * Julfers * (+6415) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Comefrom0x10 |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[User:Julfers]] |year=[[:Category:2016|2016]] |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |majori..."
04:05:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Julfers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52422&oldid=52417 * Julfers * (+29)
04:06:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52423&oldid=52408 * Julfers * (+19)
04:10:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Comefrom0x10]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52424&oldid=52421 * Julfers * (+0)
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04:20:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Comefrom0x10]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52425 * Julfers * (+580) Created page with "==Turing completeness== I listed this as Turing complete because it probably is and I wrote a [https://comefrom0x10.readthedocs.io/en/latest/examples.html#brainfuck-interpret..."
04:20:17 <shachaf> `5 w
04:20:22 <HackEgo> 1/2:welcome.fi//Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.) \ manglophobia//Manglophobia is the fear of horribly mangled "Greek" neologisms. \ pluto//Pluto i
04:20:23 <shachaf> `n
04:20:23 <HackEgo> 2/2:s an ex-planet that moonlights as a dog in Disney cartoons. \ jerk//Jerk is the integral of snap. \ amnesium//An amnesium is a school where you forget everything you learned after each test.
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06:06:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hi\n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52426&oldid=50177 * Xavo * (-1563) Blanked the page
06:09:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ChromaticiT * New user account
06:13:56 <shachaf> contrapumpkin: whoa whoa whoa, you're doing Rust?
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11:44:13 <boily> `w
11:44:15 <HackEgo> lion//Lions are the catamorphisms of the animal world. They get eaten by poets in stone dens.
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16:15:16 <Vorpal> Hm Debian stretch was released last month. Time to upgrade maybe. Or should I wait half a year for it to stabilise.
16:20:06 <int-e> is that a joke, hmm.
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16:25:52 <int-e> let's break a few VMs...
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16:32:49 <Vorpal> int-e: not really. I have a server for one. Do not want it to break :P Though it isn't ubuntu. Ubuntu tends to be far buggier on upgrade between LTSes
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16:33:43 <Vorpal> but yes probably going to dump the server VM, do a offline dry run upgrade, make sure it works and then either do the real upgrade or sync it back
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16:43:05 <int-e> well that seems to have worked just fine.
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16:50:02 <int-e> Vorpal: the thing is, Debian is ultra-stable to the point where I'm running the "unstable" distribution on my home computer. (I do keep to the stable release for VMs)
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16:52:03 <int-e> Vorpal: anyway I can now report two successful in situ upgrades to stretch... booted without a hitch and all services that I remember are still running.
16:52:25 <Vorpal> int-e: what about a complicated setup with LVM2 and cryptsetup-luks though ;P
16:52:37 <Vorpal> that is not for my VM, but for my desktop
16:54:28 <int-e> That might be more fun, but if it's luks then I wouldn't expect problems. Might be a good idea to keep something like Knoppix around though (which I expect has enough software on board to allow accessing the data)
16:55:16 <Vorpal> int-e: I use http://www.system-rescue-cd.org/ for that type of purpose
16:55:32 <Vorpal> found it to be really good
16:56:12 <Vorpal> website looks really dated though
16:56:26 <int-e> Knoppix has a browser to pass the time while the tools are working ;)
16:57:06 <Vorpal> int-e: I believe there is a basic browser on that CD too, it has LXDE at least
16:57:11 <Vorpal> maybe dillo or something like that?
16:58:13 <Vorpal> int-e: the question then is, does knoppix have all the specialized tools that system rescue CD does as well?
16:58:42 <Vorpal> actually it appears there is full on firefox on there
17:00:02 <Vorpal> bbl going to make food. Just need to go out and pick some fresh herbs first.
17:01:11 <int-e> well, I have not yet missed anything. http://www.wp-schulz.de/images/download/knoppix_77/kn-vsn.lst
17:01:27 <int-e> (but mostly I just needed gparted and debootstrap)
17:03:36 <int-e> Vorpal: Basically when you make a 7.7GB image you have room for a lot of stuff ;)
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17:28:19 <Vorpal> int-e: does it have the complete TeXLive?
17:28:38 <int-e> good question
17:29:02 <Vorpal> int-e: what about qgis?
17:29:15 <int-e> well, no, not complete... but a good chunk of texlive is in there.
17:30:13 <int-e> I bet it also doesn't include the whole small groups database of gap
17:31:24 <int-e> texlive-fonts-extra isn't in there, so it won't be enough to build the wisdom.pdf
17:31:42 <fizzie> I've upgraded three systems from jessie to stretch now without issues.
17:32:46 <fizzie> I think the only change that was sort of relevant from an administrationary point of view is the new network interface naming they've switched to.
17:33:38 <fizzie> (It's sort of opt-in if you're upgrading, but on by default on new installs.)
17:34:01 <fizzie> (Oh, and the possibility to maybe switch from iptables to nftables if you want.)
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17:53:23 <int-e> . o O ( so how do I get the apt-listchanges output again... )
18:04:24 <fizzie> I don't know, I'm just happy I always get those emailed.
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18:18:05 <int-e> yeah apparently I never made that part work
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18:25:18 <Vorpal> <fizzie> (Oh, and the possibility to maybe switch from iptables to nftables if you want.) <-- huh?
18:25:23 <Vorpal> what do I stand to gain from that
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18:25:30 <Vorpal> it is the same backend isn't it?
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18:26:27 <Vorpal> Anyway both debian boxes uses ufw. Though the server has some custom rules on top (for a HTTPS/SSH multiplexer, since port 443 may be accessible through some proxies where you can't reach port 22)
18:27:07 <Vorpal> my Raspbian (where stretch has not yet been released anyway) has completely custom iptables rules because of various VPN and IPv6 tunnel routing mess
18:28:28 <ais523> I use ufw as my iptables frontend :-P
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18:31:58 <Vorpal> ais523: I do that for most systems. Just in two cases I do way more complicated stuff than it can handle
18:32:23 <ais523> now I'm interested in why you'd need a firewall that complex
18:32:34 <Vorpal> in one case I managed to deal with that in the /etc/ufw custom rules files. In the other it was too messy
18:32:49 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if fail2ban can be set up to block spam email
18:33:26 <Vorpal> ais523: I set it up to block on failed logins for dovecot at least
18:33:34 <ais523> so did I
18:33:43 <ais523> that's a bit of a different scenario though
18:34:02 <ais523> because there are plenty of legitimate reasons for people other than me to send me email
18:34:08 <ais523> but no real legitimate reasons for people other than me to download my email
18:34:14 <Vorpal> ais523: ufw doesn't allow you to set up prerouting entries for one
18:34:50 <Vorpal> ais523: well postfix submission port can be blocked based on failed dovecot SASL logins too
18:35:03 <Vorpal> I believe I set that up, don't quite remember
18:35:24 <ais523> how often does someone try to hack into your email, and when it can't, try to send email pretending to be from you?
18:35:50 <ais523> I mean, I can't see any reason not to block that
18:35:55 <Vorpal> ais523: I get quite a few connect try AUTH disconnect password guessing bots in the logs at least
18:35:58 <ais523> but I also wouldn't expect it to haev a lot of effect
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18:36:08 <ais523> I get AUTH guessing bots a lot too
18:36:21 <Vorpal> usually low rate though
18:36:44 <ais523> but I don't expect them to move onto the submission port when they fail
18:36:51 <Vorpal> brb, think the stuff in the oven is ready maybe
18:36:53 <ais523> err, backwards
18:37:04 <ais523> I don't expect them to have guessed the dovecot password first
18:37:43 <Vorpal> nope meringue was still not crisp
18:38:38 <Vorpal> ais523: as for why I don't use ufw on my pi, I set it up so I route all traffic for a specific UID through a VPN, but route other traffic normally. That was invasive enough to make me ditch ufw
18:38:42 <ais523> huh, someone's trying to bruteforce username/password pairs on NH4's play-a-game login interface
18:38:49 <ais523> presumably thinking it's a regular telnet interface
18:39:04 <ais523> they'll be pretty disappointed if they do manage to get into the account of the player called "root" :-P
18:39:19 <fizzie> Vorpal: Re nftables, possibly not much, especially for simple scenarios. nftables has better support for (static or dynamic) sets/maps, which can give you less-than-O(n) lookups for many things where the iptables approach would be "list of rules". And the syntax is more concise.
18:39:20 <Vorpal> also setting up connection tracking helpers need some entries in the raw output table
18:39:30 <Vorpal> fizzie: oh, ipset?
18:39:36 <Vorpal> thought that existed already
18:39:41 <ais523> this has been going for ages, too
18:39:52 <Vorpal> ais523: fail2ban on it then
18:40:05 <ais523> I can't easily, nothing seems to be recording the IP
18:40:13 <Vorpal> that seems weird
18:40:21 <ais523> this is rare enough (because it wouldn't actually work if it succeeded…) that I'd just ban the IP manually if I knew what it was
18:41:09 <Vorpal> fizzie: I guess that would be nice for the Pi. I have a long list of ports to accept on for it
18:41:24 <Vorpal> ais523: how do you even know it is happening then?
18:41:29 <fizzie> Vorpal: There's some support for sets on the iptables side, nft's just a lot more extensive. You can use them in a lot of contexts, and also do key-value maps, including for things like mapping to an action.
18:41:31 <Vorpal> also I get quite regular scans on port 23
18:41:37 <ais523> Vorpal: nethack4 server is logging the attempts
18:41:52 <Vorpal> ais523: but not the ip?
18:41:53 <Vorpal> weird
18:41:54 <ais523> but it sees the connections as coming from localhost, because people telnet in and it creates a client for them
18:42:00 <Vorpal> ah
18:42:05 <fizzie> Vorpal: Oh, and nft lets you do a single ruleset for IPv4/IPv6 jointly, which is an improvement in convenience over plain iptables. Probably again not relevant if you're already using a frontend like ufw.
18:42:11 <ais523> like, if you connect to NH4 by telnet, you get a client process with which to do your server interaction
18:42:25 <Vorpal> fizzie: well, I have different rules for ipv4 and ipv6 on the pi
18:43:08 <fizzie> So do I, but they're *mostly* similar.
18:43:16 <Vorpal> fizzie: is the feature set a full on super-set of iptables? Last I looked (a year ago maybe) it wasn't yet
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18:43:32 <fizzie> There's a few missing pieces, but it's not far.
18:43:41 <int-e> wow, disabling sha1 based DH key exchanges in sshd actually cuts down on the authentication attempts... funny
18:43:44 <Vorpal> fizzie: very different for me, since the pi act as a SixXS tunnel endpoint and share it to the network
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18:43:56 <imode> the answer to this question is probably yes, but have there been any esolangs that don't have numbers of any kind built in?
18:43:59 <fizzie> You don't *have* to do a joint table.
18:44:31 <fizzie> There's also some more theoretical benefits, like you might be able to get new features just by updating the userland tooling without needing a kernel extension, since the whole infrastructure is more BPF-style virtual machiney thing.
18:44:38 <ais523> imode: tons
18:44:59 <Vorpal> % ip6tables-translate -A FORWARD -i eth0 -o eth3 -p udp -m multiport --dports 111,222 -j ACCEPT
18:44:59 <Vorpal> nft add rule ip6 filter FORWARD iifname eth0 oifname eth3 meta l4proto udp udp dport { 111,222} counter accept
18:45:00 <imode> ais523: any "famous few"?
18:45:01 <ais523> Underload is my favourite example; there's a conventional number representation but it's based on functions with specific behaviour
18:45:12 <Vorpal> that new commands seems rather more confusing than iptables to me
18:45:21 <Vorpal> that was just an example I found googling
18:45:23 <ais523> But Is It Art? is my new favourite example for an esolang that doesn't have /any/ sort of conventional data structure
18:45:43 <shachaf> Is the Mill an esoarchitecture?
18:45:45 <imode> "constraint-solving tarpit" now that's interesting.
18:45:53 <fizzie> Vorpal: I'm guessing "meta l4proto udp" is just a translator artefact, it's not needed at all.
18:45:55 <Vorpal> ais523: will have to look at that
18:46:10 <shachaf> I suppose not.
18:46:34 <imode> I was thinking of something in the style of the untyped lambda calculus.
18:46:45 <imode> iota and jot came to mind but I was wondering if there were others.
18:46:48 <Vorpal> well if there are functioning translation tools, it shouldn't be too bad to convert it
18:47:14 <fizzie> Vorpal: Another semi-nice thing for complicated rulesets might be that you're not limited to a single action, which might cut down on the need for "utility chains".
18:47:51 <Vorpal> okay yes that might be useful
18:47:56 <fizzie> There's still a bunch of more or less niche match types that don't have a nftables equivalent, and anyway there's probably no hurry to migrate.
18:48:29 <Vorpal> fizzie: I set up network printing and scanning the other day. Turns out sane is one of those nasty protocols that need a connection tracking helper, it is doing separate control and data channels
18:48:43 <Vorpal> Ended up doing a utility chain for it
18:48:47 <fizzie> I've seen the SANE conntrack helper around, yes.
18:49:24 <fizzie> Personally I'm blocked by the fact that the "tcpmss" match type is not in any release yet, though it (actually a generic "TCP options" thing) is implemented in the git, so presumably it will be coming.
18:50:02 <Vorpal> fizzie: a little more than a year out of date, but: https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Supported_features_compared_to_xtables
18:50:19 <Vorpal> fizzie: what do you need that for
18:50:30 <Vorpal> tcpmss consider native interface <--?
18:50:45 <fizzie> Yeah, I never found out what that means.
18:50:54 <fizzie> Even after a lot of searching.
18:51:31 <Vorpal> fizzie: hm I think the ufw firewall for ipv6 use the HL (hoplimit?) thing, maybe
18:51:49 <fizzie> Anyway, I need it for my current port knock thing, which is based on setting a specific MSS value to act as a key.
18:52:15 <ais523> OK, I found the IPs using lsof
18:52:18 <ais523> there were actually three of them
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18:59:46 <ais523> ugh, I hate that Pulseaudio bug
18:59:51 * ais523 turns off audible bell in the terminal
18:59:58 <ais523> it crashes if you end it beeps too quickly
19:00:15 <ais523> and although you can restart it, it then isn't integrated with the OS, meaning that things like the volume control shortcut keys no longer work
19:00:23 <ais523> so I normally just reboot unless I'm in the middle of something important
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19:12:58 <\oren\> ais523: >using pulseaudio
19:13:33 <\oren\> sudo pkill -9 pulseaudio
19:15:11 <\oren\> rm -rf ~/.pulse*
19:15:19 <ais523> ooh, I found the logs, apparently systemd is keeping them
19:15:22 <\oren\> rm -rf ~/.config/pulse
19:15:23 <ais523> \oren\: then I wouldn't have sound
19:15:34 <\oren\> sudo apt-get remove pulseaudio
19:15:39 <\oren\> use also
19:15:40 <\oren\> use alsa
19:15:47 <\oren\> alsa works fine
19:15:54 <ais523> I actually find some of pulseaudio's features useful
19:16:00 <ais523> like independent volume controls per-program
19:16:15 <ais523> OK, now I'm more confident that these bans are justified
19:20:57 <\oren\> jack is a better audio thing
19:21:14 <\oren\> but really alsa works fine anyway
19:21:32 <ais523> huh, how bizarre
19:21:44 <ais523> when I telnet to nethack4.org the connection is logged as being over IPv6
19:21:52 <ais523> and yet IPv6 testers say I don't have an IPv6 connection
19:22:07 <Vorpal> <ais523> it crashes if you end it beeps too quickly <-- this sentence grammar?
19:22:14 <Vorpal> I fail to parse it
19:22:22 <Hoolootwo> I don't think that sentence grammar
19:22:28 <ais523> Vorpal: "end" is a typo for "send"
19:22:33 <Vorpal> aah
19:22:41 <ais523> it makes more sense if you put a transitive verb there :-)
19:23:18 <Vorpal> ais523: I tried "it's" but that failed too
19:23:26 <ais523> huh, why do I have IPv6 telnet if I don't have IPv6 http
19:24:18 <Vorpal> ais523: maybe it is just bound to * and thus report clients as ipv6 mapped ipv4?
19:25:09 <ais523> nah, I can telnet to the IPv6 address directly
19:25:16 <ais523> then I tried sshing to it, and got a password prompt
19:25:26 <ais523> then I tried sshing to my server over IPv4, and got a complaint from ssh
19:25:28 <ais523> so now I'm really confused
19:27:15 <Vorpal> ais523: check ifconfig to see if you have ipv6?
19:27:22 <Vorpal> apart from link local I mean
19:30:58 <ais523> I have IPv6 to the router but that's not surprising
19:32:05 <ais523> oh, I know what happened, and why I was so confused
19:32:10 <ais523> I ssh'ed from my computer to the server
19:32:13 <ais523> then from the server to itself
19:32:16 <Vorpal> ah
19:32:28 <ais523> so I was connecting /from/ the wrong computer
19:32:33 <ais523> that's why nothing seemed to match up
19:32:47 <ais523> I need differently coloured prompts or something
19:32:55 <Vorpal> ais523: so the server had ipv6 the whole time?
19:33:53 <ais523> Vorpal: yes
19:33:57 <ais523> I know my server has IPv6
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19:41:51 <Vorpal> ais523: as for the pulse audio thing, never seen that bug
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19:42:29 <Vorpal> ais523: as for the pulse audio thing, never seen that bug
19:42:47 <Vorpal> hm right, I always turn off the bell in inputrc, so that removes the major source of it
19:42:58 <Vorpal> might depend on the terminal emulator you use I guess
19:43:03 <Vorpal> I use mate-terminal
19:43:33 <ais523> it normally happens when scrolling in less
19:43:40 <ais523> less beeps if you try to scroll past the end of the file
19:43:49 <ais523> and I normally use the mouse wheel with less, so that can give a lot of inputs very quickly
19:44:23 <Vorpal> does it? doesn't beep for me
19:44:57 <Vorpal> I guess it reads inputrc too and disables the bell based on that?
19:45:34 <Vorpal> I find the bell during tab completion so terrible I immediately disables it completely
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20:30:54 <copumpkin> shachaf: only informally :)
20:31:13 <shachaf> `relcome copumpkin
20:31:14 <HackEgo> copumpkin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
20:43:25 <fizzie> Pressing backspace when there's no input to erase in xscreensaver's password input dialog is pretty much the only thing that produces a beep here. I don't know what exactly it's doing.
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20:44:18 <fizzie> (URxvt.visualBell: True in .Xresources, 'xset b off' in .xsession.)
20:47:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MIX (Knuth)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52427&oldid=52410 * Zzo38 * (+504) Character codes
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21:50:53 <wob_jonas> "<Vorpal> Hm Debian stretch was released last month. Time to upgrade maybe. Or should I wait half a year for it to stabilise." => oh great!
21:51:05 <wob_jonas> thanks for mentioning, I didn't notice it's come out yet
21:51:17 <wob_jonas> I'll definitely have to upgrade
21:51:25 <wob_jonas> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/
21:57:14 <zzo38> How might we calculate which constellation a set of coordinates is in? One consideration will be that there are some polar constellations, Octans and Ursa Minor. The boundaries seem to be almost straight along the axis of right ascension or declination, but not quite; they are a bit off.
21:58:15 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I thought the boundaries are always polygons with latitude and longitude line boundaries
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22:00:01 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes they are always polygons, although the lines are not always aligned like that, it is slightly off, it seems from the data
22:00:22 <wob_jonas> zzo38: really?
22:00:36 <wob_jonas> are all of them slightly off, or just some?
22:02:05 <zzo38> I think all, but I have not checked all of them. Here is one: https://www.iau.org/static/public/constellations/txt/and.txt The first number is right ascension and the next number is declination, you can see they are nearly aligned but not quite
22:02:37 <wob_jonas> zzo38: is it possible that they're all aligned but in a different coordinate system that is rotated compared to the one this is described in?
22:03:18 <zzo38> I don't know; I haven't checked.
22:03:31 <wob_jonas> um, what do those numbers mean in the text file you linked?
22:04:40 <zzo38> I mentioned: the first column (before the first |) is the right ascension (in hours), and the second is the declination (in degrees), and the last part is the abbreviation for the constellation name.
22:05:10 <zzo38> The numbers are J2000 equatorial coordinates.
22:06:05 <wob_jonas> hmm
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23:23:19 <boily> `5 w
23:23:23 <HackEgo> 1/2:complete heyting algebra//A complete Heyting algebra is just a cartesian closed complete lattice. \ pipe//This is not a pipe. \ maths//Maths stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin. \ manager//Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html \ portmanteau//«Portmanteau» is the French spelling of “port man to
23:23:31 <boily> `n
23:23:31 <HackEgo> 2/2:e”.
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