←2017-07-12 2017-07-13 2017-07-14→ ↑2017 ↑all
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01:20:29 <wob_jonas> `? zygohistomorphic prepromorphism
01:20:30 <HackEgo> A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor.
01:20:51 <wob_jonas> `dowg zygohistomorphic prepromorphism
01:20:59 <HackEgo> 5308:2015-04-11 <oerjän> ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"}
01:21:01 <wob_jonas> `howg zygohistomorphic prepromorphism
01:21:07 <HackEgo> ​<oerjän> ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"}
01:21:09 <shachaf> who uses howg?
01:21:13 <shachaf> we should scrap it
01:21:33 <wob_jonas> `howg zygohistomorphic
01:21:42 <HackEgo> ​<oerjän> ` mv wisdom/zygohistomorphic{," prepromorphism"} \ <oerjän> learn A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor.
01:21:42 <wob_jonas> it's mine, isn't it?
01:21:48 <wob_jonas> no
01:21:56 <wob_jonas> wow
01:37:12 <shachaf> Why would you howg instead of dowg?
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02:36:34 <doesthiswork> I just learnt there is a irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#proglangdesign  channel
03:11:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Julfers * New user account
03:25:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52416&oldid=52402 * Julfers * (+148)
03:26:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Julfers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=52417 * Julfers * (+31) Created page with "Josiah (Joe) Ulfers, programmer"
04:13:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DatBoi11841 * New user account
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08:53:17 <mroman> does visual basic have context-sensitive grammar?
08:53:31 <mroman> as foo(bar) could either be a function call or an array access depending on what type foo is
08:54:23 <FireFly> Isn't the grammar for those the same though, just different semantics
08:55:15 <FireFly> Like I'd expect in both cases foo and bar are expressions, as is the result foo(bar)
08:55:38 <FireFly> so as far as parsing is concerned, it's one thing
08:57:00 <shachaf> Do you like the Mill?
08:57:39 <mroman> but foo(bar, baz) would be illegal if foo is an array type
08:58:05 <mroman> parsing might be the same though
08:58:14 <mroman> but it's a semantic error
09:03:03 <mroman> hm. yeah.
09:03:09 <mroman> parsing rules are probably the same for both.
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09:25:00 <mroman> fungot you lil raskell
09:25:01 <fungot> mroman: v. capacity calculated according to length :) skull, proportions :), in india, as i learn from admiral sir james sulivan) to be low, and would, i suspect that/ following circumstances. a minute crustaceous animal " cancer salinus) is said to be; and about mimosa sensitiva./ fnord is lost. very soon afterwards it decays. in/ preservation :) profitable modifications, each better and better, for educational purposes, than
09:30:05 <Vorpal> ^style
09:30:05 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin* discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
09:30:14 <Vorpal> ah
09:33:24 <mroman> ^style europarl
09:33:24 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
09:33:36 <mroman> fungot: Any opinions on G20?
09:33:37 <fungot> mroman: mr president, a few days ago. mr davies has already said on a number of positive and negative. negative, firstly, countries should honour their pledges, namely make 0.7% of their gross national income.
09:33:58 <mroman> fungot: And how does this relate to the violence?
09:33:59 <fungot> mroman: mr president, before i give my explanation of vote against related to the system. then there was a great scandal in italy because a leak from the ministry for the fnord. finally, mr president, i received a specific question to the council and the president of finland, and i quote: ' whereby progressively only less favoured regions, one-fourth of community sheep production is undertaken in other areas loses its meaning.
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09:35:49 <mroman> ^style fisher
09:35:50 <fungot> Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations)
09:36:02 <mroman> fungot: Who invented the telephone?
09:36:02 <fungot> mroman: you know what a good network you know
09:36:11 <mroman> fungot: I like good networks.
09:36:32 <mroman> hm.
09:36:37 <mroman> @messages
09:36:38 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
09:39:05 <mroman> fungot: WHY DO YOU NEVER SEND ME ANY TEXTS??
09:39:18 <mroman> I SWIPED RIGHT ON YOU YOU KNOW.
11:20:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52418&oldid=32456 * Zseri * (+12) /* Interpreter */ dead link
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14:50:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trajedy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52419&oldid=51774 * Jafetish * (+280)
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15:26:49 <oerjan> spämmi!
15:26:56 <oerjan> i think it's been a while since the last one.
15:27:12 <oerjan> (in finnish, that is.)
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15:54:09 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan asks himself the same question every day. <-- . o O ( shachaf knows too much... )
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16:46:40 <int-e> what am I doing here?
16:51:59 <shachaf> oerjan: do you know what action one takes in order to know too much hth
16:54:55 <oerjan> one asks too many questions.
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17:12:15 <shachaf> oerjan: yes, that's what i was getting at
17:12:20 <shachaf> Maybe what you were getting at too.
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18:01:41 <fizzie> @tell oerjan At least it wasn't mämmi.
18:01:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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19:25:39 <fizzie> (I wonder if oerjan's Finnish spam was related to Spotify, because I just got a rare Finnish s[pc]am as well, and it was.)
19:25:55 <\oren\> https://youtu.be/eCiFO7qV54E
20:05:47 <shachaf> `olist 1082
20:05:48 <HackEgo> olist 1082: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:24:41 <Vorpal> fizzie: I only ever get spam about rayban sunglasses for incredibly low prices.
20:25:03 <Vorpal> Or at least that is the only thing getting through to the gmail spam folder even
20:25:21 <shachaf> Are you vorpal@gmail.com?
20:25:59 <Vorpal> nope
20:27:37 <Vorpal> And I have not gotten any spam to my own email server. So I haven't even set up spam filtering there yet. Just some basic SPF verification thing
20:29:11 <Vorpal> fizzie: I believe you run your own mail server, for the future and the inevitable day I get spam, what do you recommend for anti-spam?
20:30:40 <shachaf> I used to be involved in running mail servers.
20:30:52 <shachaf> Sort of.
20:31:07 <Vorpal> shachaf: okay, any suggestions for that future?
20:31:17 <Vorpal> I only know that SpamAssassin is a thing
20:31:36 <shachaf> We were using custom software.
20:31:51 <Vorpal> ouch
20:32:22 <Vorpal> Last SpamAssassin release was over 2 years ago hm
20:50:58 <fizzie> Vorpal: For spam, I use a postfwd configuration that checks two DNS blacklists (zen.spamhaus.org, bl.spamcop.net). It's very rudimentary, but has been enough so far.
20:51:08 <Vorpal> ah
20:51:09 <fizzie> There's a fair number of spam that goes through, but it's not been unmanageable.
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20:52:53 <fizzie> I thought about doing greylisting, for whatever reason I hear that still is pretty effective.
20:54:41 <Vorpal> fizzie: how does that work?
20:55:24 <fizzie> The tl;dr is that for any unknown sending mail server, your mail server returns a "temporarily unavailable, please retry" error code.
20:55:45 <fizzie> Apparently most of the botnets that spew out spam still don't do retries, while almost all real mail servers do.
20:56:20 <fizzie> It does add a little delay (from some minutes to hours, depending on sending mx behavior) to first new email from an unknown system.
20:56:47 <fizzie> Probably makes more sense for a system that receives an appreciable volume of email.
20:57:05 <fizzie> My forwarding service (iki.fi) does that.
20:57:23 <Vorpal> ah
20:58:09 <Vorpal> ah
20:58:12 <Vorpal> oops
20:58:34 <fizzie> And the school where my father teaches does otherwise, because they greylist the periodic newsletters I send to family members.
20:59:43 <fizzie> So it's also kind of inherently biased against anyone using a "non-standard" email solution, since those will likely be classified as unknown. (The greylisting implementations expire the "known" status after some days/weeks.)
21:00:41 <fizzie> Yeah, it's happened to the most recent one I sent again.
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21:01:48 <fizzie> "status=deferred (host [REDACTED] said: 451 4.7.1 <[REDACTED]>: Recipient address rejected: Greylisting in effect, please come back later (in reply to RCPT TO command))"
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21:13:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52420&oldid=52293 * Manushand * (-4) /* Factorial */
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21:27:23 <Vorpal> fizzie: looking at the logs I do get some connects from such hosts, but it seems they just disconnect without doing anything. Manually resolved a couple
21:29:11 <Vorpal> fizzie: might be the SPF checking does it as well
21:29:59 <fizzie> There's a lot more connects in my Postfix logs than actual clients, I've never really bothered to investigate why they disconnect.
21:30:40 <fizzie> Some of them might be bruteforcing passwords, there's one case here with about 2k connect attempts over two hours or so.
21:31:33 <Vorpal> hm maybe set up fail2ban on that?
21:31:48 <Vorpal> Kind of tricky to find the right criteria for that I guess
21:32:07 <Vorpal> I don't see anything about failed passwords in the postfix log at least
21:32:51 <fizzie> Guess they might be doing something else too. Like trying to spam without any "stop if failing" thing.
21:33:03 <Vorpal> I use SASL, how does that work exactly?
21:33:13 <Vorpal> smtpd_sasl_type = dovecot
21:33:13 <Vorpal> smtpd_sasl_path = private/auth
21:33:32 <Vorpal> Do postfix forward to it? Or do you login to dovecot first and that makes it work?
21:34:10 <fizzie> Postfix connects to that Dovecot socket to authenticate based on what comes in the SMTP connection, I believe.
21:34:14 <fizzie> (I have the same setup.)
21:34:19 <Vorpal> Ah
21:35:44 <Vorpal> was a while since I set it up, kind of confused now. What is an LMTP service and why do I use it?
21:36:26 <fizzie> LMTP is like SMTP except for local delivery, I think it's the recommended way to setup mail delivery into Dovecot.
21:36:59 <Vorpal> Probably why I use it then
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21:37:10 <fizzie> IIRC, the protocol's pretty much identical to SMTP, except maybe some minor variations and the fact that it normally runs over a Unix domain socket.
21:37:54 <Vorpal> fizzie: hm that forwarding service you use, how does that work when forwarding mails from servers with SPF set up to a server that checks SPF?
21:38:06 <Vorpal> s/use/run/
21:42:10 <fizzie> They're opposed to SPF on ideological and practical grounds. And of course you can self decide where you forward to, and pick a friendly enough destination. I don't remember if they did anything else specifically.
21:42:51 <Vorpal> fizzie: they? I got the impression you ran it.
21:43:07 <fizzie> No no, it's an organization.
21:43:20 <fizzie> "The Internet Users Forever IKI is a non-profit society which provides its members, private individuals in Finland, permanent iki.fi-addresses with e-mail and WWW forwarding."
21:43:51 <Vorpal> okay, but you are involved in running it somehow or not?
21:44:19 <fizzie> I've been to their meetings back when I still lived in Finland (free cake), so I guess in a super-technical sense yes. But not in any practical way.
21:44:37 <Vorpal> ah okay
21:45:01 <Vorpal> <fizzie> My forwarding service (iki.fi) does that. <-- I misinterpreted the "my" there
21:45:16 <fizzie> Yeah, it was a little ambiguous. "My" as in "the one I use".
21:46:12 <fizzie> I don't think that many places are yet using SPF as a hard blocklist even with a -all policy on the source, it's just an extra signal to their filtering systems. I remember the IKI people's discussion places having some chatter about that and Gmail, but there's definitely people forwarding their iki.fi addresses to Gmail with success.
21:46:55 <shachaf> `? fizzie
21:46:56 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the sneaky canary prime minister of #esoteric, see https://zem.fi/static/img/square_fizzie_320px_white.jpg
21:47:20 <shachaf> i'm voting fizzie for king in the next election
21:47:50 <fizzie> I guess unnamed former Gmail SREs might have better ideas about how it relates to SPF, but that's SO CONFIDENTIAL.
21:48:54 <fizzie> I did set up DKIM on my private mail server, in the hopes of it maybe giving a tiny positive nudge in spam scores of outgoing emails.
21:48:56 <shachaf> For what it's worth Delivery is a somewhat separate group from the rest of Gmail.
21:50:17 <fizzie> (One of my wife's relatives uses Hotmail/Outlook, and some of our messages went to their spam folder.)
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22:55:12 <wob_jonas> another olist?
22:58:21 <shachaf> Yes, but this olist was already announced.
22:58:25 <shachaf> We need an olistlist.
22:58:52 <wob_jonas> I know, I noticed it in the logs
22:58:57 <wob_jonas> that's why I didn't `olist it again
22:59:06 <wob_jonas> I'm just surprised because it's fast now
23:01:58 <shachaf> Well, he published his PDF thing.
23:02:03 <shachaf> So it's back to full-time olisting.
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23:37:38 <oerjan> <shachaf> Maybe what you were getting at too. <-- THAUSIBLE
23:37:57 <oerjan> @messages-flood
23:37:57 <lambdabot> fizzie said 5h 36m 15s ago: At least it wasn't mämmi.
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←2017-07-12 2017-07-13 2017-07-14→ ↑2017 ↑all