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05:37:04 <oerjan> girl genius is recycling material i've already read! it's an outrage!
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07:09:01 <\oren\> IN EU4 THE EQUATOR DOES NOT PASS THROUGH ECUADOR!
07:09:21 <\oren\> THE MAP IS ALL WRONG WRONG WRONG
07:15:50 <\oren\> http://imgur.com/a/pYQht
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07:26:12 <\oren\> http://imgur.com/kFg6XT3
07:29:24 <oerjan> are you sure it's not the other continents that are too far south hth
07:30:43 <\oren\> oerjan: welll... whatever, relativity and all that
07:30:53 <oerjan> also they've placed italy in the north of africa tdnh
07:32:17 <\oren\> oerjan: no, that was the treaty of lausanne that did that
07:52:02 <Jafet> a bigger problem is its use of a mercator projection
07:53:05 <Taneb> I think it's a we do what we want projection
07:54:02 <shachaf> I'm inclined to agree with the folks in the Hunting of the Snark.
08:16:36 <doesthiswork> Girl Genius is showing reruns. I want my money back!
08:19:27 <shachaf> doesthiswork: your complaint is a rerun of oerjan's hth
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10:07:47 <int-e> \oren\: http://newsthump.com/2017/07/31/scaramucci-fired-after-failing-to-do-the-fandango/ <-- I hope this will be the final Bohemian Rhapsody piece on that guy.
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11:40:45 <HackEgo> spore//spore <n> stores its input in tmp/spout and displays the nth line (default first). For a version considering irc line lengths, see sport. See also `spam.
11:42:42 <shachaf> Taneb invented mushrooms, so I guess he probably invented spores too.
11:48:02 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, special relativity, metar, weetoflakes, mushrooms, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, cognac, progress, sanity, the Oxford comma, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths. He never invents anything involving sex.
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15:50:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SpeedTime * New user account
15:51:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Plantagenet * New user account
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17:15:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cubix]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52635&oldid=49843 * SnoringFrog * (+55) adding D comand
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19:00:41 <int-e> if anyone cares, #esoteric is now channel number 38 out of 84 that lambdabot joins... should get here sooner after restarts. (I reprioritized the non-core-haskell channels based on channel population count, and #esoteric is quite large)
19:09:35 <Cale> int-e: Maybe #reflex-frp would make a good addition as well? :)
19:09:54 <Cale> (I manually joined it there a little while back)
19:12:50 <int-e> looks good, adding it...
19:15:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=52636&oldid=52606 * Btiffin2017 * (+63) /* Befunge-98 and beyond */
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19:56:45 <\oren\> WILLIAM SHATNER IS A BRONY
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20:07:11 <\oren\> imode: look at his twitter
20:08:00 <imode> oh my god he's shitposting.
20:08:19 -!- shikhin has changed nick to shikbie.
20:08:25 <\oren\> yeah... he also in one tweet implied he posts on 4chan
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20:08:46 <imode> I wonder if that's actually him or a PR dude.
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20:54:26 <rdococ> Imagine a language which uses "yes" and "no" for its boolean values, rather than "true" and "false".
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20:59:19 <\oren\> rdococ: kOS uses On and Off
20:59:42 <\oren\> eg. to set the variable X to true, you say:
21:00:13 <rdococ> imagine extending On and Off with something that doesn't translate to the true/false dichotomy, e.g. In
21:00:28 <APic> Hare Krishna. ♥
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21:05:41 <imode> rdococ: there was a codebase I worked on that replaced booleans with bitwise flags, and we had to use <prefix>_valid for true and <prefix>_invalid for false.
21:06:22 <imode> it was convenient because if you wanted to signal multiple conditions you could (because you were returning a uint), but it ended up with us just aliasing things to true and false. :P
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21:12:25 <rdococ> the three bit flags that I turned on happened to be at the least significant end, but their meaning is most significant.
21:13:06 <imode> one on, two off, two on. :P
21:13:36 <rdococ> one on, two on, three off, four on, five on.
21:13:39 <imode> we basically treated uints as bit arrays with macros to access individual bits.
21:13:54 <rdococ> like an array of booleans
21:14:16 <rdococ> Wait. Each bit's index in the bit array is its own bit array.
21:14:39 <imode> it's bit arrays all the way down.
21:16:10 <rdococ> Not only can you store bit arrays, you can store sets of bit arrays.
21:16:18 <rdococ> In fact, not just sets.
21:18:33 <rdococ> A bit array is an associative array that maps bit arrays to bits. Which means that it is an associative array that maps associative arrays that map bit arrays to bits, to bits.
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21:20:27 <rdococ> A class of associative arrays that map themselves to bits.
21:21:43 <rdococ> Imagine an entire self-referential language in which every class is defined this way.
21:22:25 <rdococ> So you have class number = {number -> bit}. Now you can have class array = {number -> number}, which is also {{number -> bit} -> {number -> bit}}.
21:23:55 <rdococ> A set maps objects (including numbers and arrays) to bits. So here's the twist: a set of numbers is a number.
21:24:41 <imode> huh. you're doing something that's close to what I'm doing.
21:24:47 <imode> storing paths in a binary tree as unsigned integers.
21:25:10 <rdococ> At least a finite set containing finite numbers, anyway.
21:25:34 <rdococ> Transfinite ordinals might work the same way, but I'm not sure.
21:25:44 <rdococ> We are, after all, dealing with powers of two.
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21:27:17 <imode> https://ptpb.pw/2bPr/python check this out
21:28:37 <imode> storing/encoding binary trees.
21:29:09 <imode> the way it works is you provide a path to a node (in the form of left/right instructions)
21:29:44 <imode> and on every query for a node (meaning, you go left, right, then left, then ask if a node is there), we simply trace all the way back to the root of the tree from that node.
21:29:57 <imode> if your node happens to fall upon that path, we output a '1'. if not, we output a '0'.
21:30:48 <rdococ> !Warning! Mind has reached critical meta and explosion is imminent. Evacuate immediately. !Warning!
21:31:04 <imode> if you run the python script, it actually prints out the resulting tree.
21:31:28 <rdococ> is it python 2.x or 3.x?
21:31:37 <imode> 3. but it should just work.
21:31:52 <imode> yeah it works with 2.
21:32:40 <rdococ> I'm not acquainted with python, so idk.
21:33:13 <imode> that's just some code to run the file if you call, rather than importing it.
21:33:18 <imode> err, run the main function.
21:33:35 <imode> otherwise main() would run on every import.
21:34:18 <imode> what I wanted was something additive. meaning, to construct a binary tree in memory, updates don't have to come in order.
21:35:01 <imode> '0000' is 'fork left four times'. '10000' is 'fork right once, then left four times.'
21:35:12 <imode> regardless of when these arrive, the structure is the same. you can even re-order them.
21:36:12 <rdococ> 10110 is "fork right once, then left once, then right twice, then left once", right?
21:36:27 <imode> any node on that path is now valid.
21:36:32 <rdococ> what content does each node have?
21:36:46 <imode> none. but it's trivial to ship your data after the fact.
21:37:02 <imode> or build it in like an associative array.
21:37:06 <rdococ> is each tree defined as an array of these numbers, then?
21:37:07 <imode> "this path maps to this binary blob."
21:37:36 <imode> this tree, for example, contains 26 unique nodes across all the paths.
21:38:04 <imode> the resulting list, [15, 47, 271, 2191, 111, 4385], can all be stored as two-byte numbers if you're really hamfisted about it.
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21:38:18 <imode> so your 26-node tree is encoded in 12 bytes.
21:38:57 <imode> the cool part is that it's also a sort of database. you can query for a partial path, delete a node along that path, and then the rest of the paths become invalid because they matched.
21:39:00 <wob_jonas> "<\oren\> WILLIAM SHATNER IS A BRONY <imode> source or die." => imode: he's voiced a character in S7 E13
21:39:11 <imode> wob_jonas: hahaha oh god.
21:40:07 <rdococ> imode: So say you took the tree from the demo, and removed "0001". Would that make 00010000, 00010010000 and 000100100010 invalid too?
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21:40:34 <imode> correct. you say "remove all paths corresponding to this prefix 0001."
21:40:45 <imode> meaning "delete the node at left,left,left,right.
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21:40:57 <imode> which means its children are orphans.
21:41:17 <imode> now, you can -not- do that. another path may pick up the slack later.
21:41:27 <imode> meaning, say, if you wanted to do an arbitrary insertion.
21:41:43 <imode> or a replacement. it's a lot easier than messing with pointers.
21:41:56 <imode> and at that level, your paths take up less than a machine word's worth of space.
21:43:12 <imode> I mean, that demo decodes to... {{*,*,*,*},*,*,*},*,*,{*,*,{*,*,{*},*},*}}
21:43:43 <rdococ> Hm. If a path, e.g. "001100", has leading 0s, simply converting it into an integer would remove the information and make it indistinguishable from "1100" or "00001100". How do you convert it?
21:43:58 <imode> that's in the path function.
21:44:18 <imode> I take the traditional approach of only dealing with nodes in a complete binary tree.
21:44:38 <imode> which means that for a given node N, children are located at 2n+1 and 2n+2.
21:44:49 <imode> and parent is located at n-1/2
21:44:52 <rdococ> Makes sense, I suppose.
21:45:21 <imode> this way given a bit's index (a number), I can trace all the way back towards the root of the tree just by calling parent until I hit it.
21:46:10 <rdococ> I assume there's some rounding there (especially since the code uses bit shifting).
21:46:18 <rdococ> That's... actually really clever.
21:46:18 <imode> correct, integer arithmetic.
21:46:24 <imode> pretty standard for heaps.
21:47:15 <imode> here's something that'll twist your mind. because we can map integers onto unique paths for a binary tree, we can create functions that generate infinite or bounded trees with a certain pattern, compose them, and traverse the results.
21:48:00 <imode> for example, checking if the number is even yields only right branches from a given node.
21:48:18 <rdococ> Hold on, let me reread that.
21:48:38 <imode> short version: I can write functions to generate infinite trees and compose them together.
21:48:55 <imode> in fact, let's do an experiment.
21:49:09 <rdococ> Wait - are these infinite trees finite in their format as an array of integer paths?
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21:51:33 <imode> https://ptpb.pw/UnFc/python run this.
21:51:43 <imode> look at the second tree() function.
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21:52:48 <imode> notice how I'm not running through a list of paths or anything. the code is doing the work.
21:54:27 <imode> in traverse(), yeah.
21:54:34 <imode> just a standard left/right traversal.
21:55:28 <rdococ> brb, piecing my brain back together
21:55:52 <imode> the way I envision it is taking the infinite full binary tree and carving paths out of it. it's somewhat similar to raymarching, where you can compose transforms on distance functions to yield a scene.
21:56:05 <imode> sort of playing with 1D space.
21:56:28 <rdococ> wait, so an infinite tree which is stored as its complement?
21:56:40 <imode> there's nothing stored here.
21:56:50 <imode> you could remove the list in main() and it'd still work.
21:57:04 <imode> the second tree() function is generating the tree based on which node gets queried.
21:57:32 <imode> if the node you're on's index is divisible by 4, you'll see that it doesn't exist in the tree.
21:57:41 <imode> if it isn't, then the node exists in the tree.
21:58:14 <imode> (the first if statement is just to limit it to a few levels.
21:58:42 <rdococ> This is similar to infinite lazy lists.
21:58:46 <imode> so imagine this. you have a set of primitive functions that you can compose together to make any tree you'd like without having to store anything.
21:58:55 <rdococ> In fact, it IS infinite lazy lists.
21:59:11 <imode> essentially, yeah. :P
21:59:56 <imode> I was working on encoding nested lists of atoms (just unlabeled trees) in as small a format as possible, and I just ended up here.
22:00:54 <wob_jonas> I still hate how font creators for latin script always put a fucking fi ligature in their font that is very distinctive from just a plain fi with possibly slight kerning, even if such a ligature looks bad in that font, just to try to signal that their font is well-made and high-classed.
22:00:54 <imode> go change the modulo parameter to see how it adds and eliminates paths.
22:01:12 <rdococ> The way I understand it, ["0001", "000100", "00011"] is the same list as ["000100", "00011"], yes?
22:01:14 <wob_jonas> Sure, and fi ligature may look nice in a Times-like font, but in most fonts it's just freaking ugly.
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22:01:54 <imode> rdococ: in the original script, yes.
22:02:06 <rdococ> Not in the second script, though?
22:02:18 <wob_jonas> And yes, I know I keep complaining about this.
22:02:19 <imode> well, the second script doesn't use lists of paths to traverse a tree. :P
22:02:59 <imode> but yeah, that's the idea. paths are additive. meaning if two paths share the same prefix, you can always select the longer one and the shorter one will remain valid.
22:03:55 <imode> this is useful because if you say "oh I want to insert at this point in the tree", you don't have to do anything. you just have to say "oh this path is now valid." and optimize later.
22:04:26 <imode> like, if you had a series of right branches, 0000, and you wanted to branch -one more time- after that, you could either edit the path to 00000, or just add 00000 to the list of paths.
22:05:29 <imode> if you're playing the home game you'll notice that you can encode arbitrary lists like this. :P
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22:09:33 <imode> rdococ: for example, 00010010000 and 000100100010.. you can always choose the latter, because it still yields a valid path for the former. the same goes with 00010000 and 0000.
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22:11:16 <imode> though actually, now that I'm looking at it, unless you choose it very carefully, some of those forks are invalid.
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22:14:44 <rdococ> you mean 0001001000 and 000100100010, right?
22:15:32 <rdococ> I already gathered that :P
22:15:49 <imode> do it. it's pretty trippy.
22:16:08 <imode> if you do mod 2, and then mod 3, you can see how it adds an entire left traversal.
22:16:11 <rdococ> woah, it made the tree even larger
22:16:34 * imode wonders if he could form a bitwise trie...
22:16:56 <imode> mainly to do prefix sharing.
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22:22:11 <imode> nah. that'd be more trouble than it's worth. what I could do is just do it on the db side and say "well okay, I'm going to be using this path entry as my prefix now."
22:22:14 <imode> and do parent prefixes.
22:23:14 <APic> PARENTAL ADVISORY
22:23:24 <APic> Explicit Content
22:23:41 <imode> so one path could look like (Null, 00010000), and another could look like (1, 000), and another could look like (1, 0010).
22:24:23 <imode> so the paths generated would be 00010000, 00010000000, and 000100000010.
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22:24:43 <imode> but with the overhead being smaller because you wouldn't have to repeat the prefix each time.
22:27:44 <imode> a 26-node tree in 6 bytes isn't that bad though.
22:28:48 <rdococ> nice, mod 2 creates a left-only tree
22:29:36 <rdococ> and %2==1 is a right-only tree - makes sense
22:29:36 <imode> mhm. if you invert the conditions (so that it outputs a '1' instead of a '0' and vice versa), you'll create a right-only tree.
22:31:25 <rdococ> for some reason, I'm beginning to understand the structure of the tree system by only looking at the output rather than the code
22:31:44 <imode> that's the benefit of a quickly added depth variable. :P
22:32:38 <imode> id == index in this case.
22:32:58 <imode> it's cryptic because it's a scratch file.
22:34:26 <rdococ> I assume the bottom line of output is the tree converted into one integer
22:37:35 <imode> so that's actually just a depth-order traversal in binary.
22:37:47 <imode> 0's are lefts, 1's are rights.
22:38:09 <rdococ> oh, I see the correlation now.
22:38:56 <imode> I'd like to encode text and such via this.
22:40:10 <imode> i.e get the ordinal for a given character, split it up via its decimal digits, encode said digits as a tree traversal.
22:48:47 <\oren\> Un problema en Las Toninas hace que Internet funcione mal en todo el país
22:48:53 <\oren\> En el balneario hay un cable que es la principal fuente de fibra óptica de todo el país. En una de ellas hay inconvenientes y, por eso, hay dificultades de conexión en todo el territorio argentino.
22:49:00 <\oren\> Este cable tiene una extensión total de unos 20 mil kilómetros y forma parte del SAC (siglas de South American Crossing), un anillo interoceánico que bordea América del Sur y provee conectividad a diversos países de la región.
22:49:29 <\oren\> The entire country of Argentina is having internet problems
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23:33:07 <lambdabot> CYUL 022200Z 22006KT 15SM FEW040TCU BKN240 29/17 A2993 RMK TCU2CI4 SLP138 DENSITY ALT 1800FT
23:40:12 <rdococ> hm. Some (human) languages utilize echo answers instead of yes/no ("Did you fart?" "I did fart.")
23:40:32 <rdococ> what happens if we translate that to the realm of programming? "2 == 3" returns "2 ~= 3"
23:42:58 <HackEgo> if [[ "$1" == *" "* ]]; then exec makelist $@; fi; name="$1"; file="bin/$name"; makelistlist "$name"; shift; cp bin/emptylist "$file"; for n in "$@"; do echo "$n" >> "$file"; done
23:43:46 <shachaf> `makelist ysaclist boily shachaf
23:43:49 <HackEgo> makelistlist ysaclist: shachaf
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23:46:44 <\oren\> I thought suv was a regular word, prnounced like "sub" but with a v
23:46:46 <HackEgo> ysaclist (63): boily shachaf
23:47:10 <boily> he\\oren\! long time no see.
23:50:07 <\oren\> `learn A suv /sʌv/ is used to transport toddlers of various sizes.
23:50:09 <HackEgo> Learned 'suv': A suv /sʌv/ is used to transport toddlers of various sizes.