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17:24:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funge-98]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53358&oldid=53317 * Finianb1 * (+0) /* Instructions */
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18:56:37 <HackEgo> con//Cons are small mammals which, shortly after birth, eat two other mammals. They then live on sunlight and grass, until they are finally removed from existence.
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19:47:12 <rdococ> Can a con eat other cons, int-e?
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20:21:05 <wob_jonas> I have to be careful with the vicious clothing cycle. Basically, some clothes get more comfortable the more I wear them, because washing with a rinse agent makes the cotton softer. But when I choose what clothes to wear, I often choose the more comfortable ones. So there's a positive feedback loop for wearing older clothes, which eventually get rui
20:21:05 <wob_jonas> ned, without breaking in the newer clothes.
20:26:12 <doesthiswork> do what hermit crabs do. Steal broken in clothes from someone slightly weaker than you
20:28:57 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: stealing clothes is not socially acceptible. the usual method is to buy clothes from people slightly *richer* from you, usually people notionally in the UK who just sell their warm winter clothes in the spring and sell their summer clothes in the autumn.
20:30:26 <wob_jonas> "Notially in the UK" means that every used clothes store that isn't selling clothes collected as charity is labeling them as "British used clothes" for the quality associated with that, just like how chocolate is labeled as "Belgian" or "Swiss" regardless of where it's made.
20:37:14 <doesthiswork> The british are known for the quality of their used clothes?
20:38:22 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: they do know, since all non-charity-based used clothes stores started to label their clothes as UK
20:38:48 <wob_jonas> nobody knows where the used clothes really come from, or where Belgian and Swiss chocolate really comes from, but now they're stuck with that label
20:40:58 <wob_jonas> The charity shops have it easier, because all the big charities already use the names of big reputable organizations, and are now reputable as charities themselves too, namely the Red Cross charity, the Baptist charity org, the Maltese (as in Holy Order of Malta) charity org, and the Ecumenical charity org.
20:42:51 <doesthiswork> I don't see why reputation plays a large part in the used clothes market, because unlike chocolate you get to try it before you buy it.
20:44:38 <int-e> let's combine the two ideas and open a used chocolate market
20:45:24 <doesthiswork> sounds great. Here in america we have rainbow foods which is a used food store
20:45:30 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: well sure, but there's so many shops you're unlikely to go in every one and try each garment sold in them
20:46:24 <doesthiswork> perhaps I'm underestimating the density of used clothing shops in Britain
20:46:37 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: um, these stores aren't in Britain
20:47:23 <wob_jonas> of course if the clothes really were British, that would imply that Britain doesn't have many used clothes stores, it just exports all those used clothes to here
20:47:48 <wob_jonas> just like how western europe exports used cars to Hungary, then Hungary exports them to southern europe, then southern europe exports them to africa
20:48:10 <doesthiswork> I thought maybe the british had the attitude that every month deserves a fresh set of clothes
20:48:36 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: well that's what these used clothes stores imply
20:49:02 <wob_jonas> they buy fresh clothes every season, and give away the old ones to be sold in Hungary
20:49:43 <wob_jonas> and the Swedish buy a new car every seven years, give away the seven year old cars to Hungary, who use them for seven more years, then give them away to Bulgaria, who then use them for seven more years, then give them away to central africa
20:50:21 <wob_jonas> (The British cars aren't exported to Hungary obviously, because they drive on the wrong side of the road.)
20:53:10 <doesthiswork> Hungarian drivers no longer use both sides of the road?
20:54:29 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: no longer. they switched to using only one side some time in the first world war or something
20:57:32 <wob_jonas> that's one of the very few side effects of big wars: since almost all the existing infrastructure is exploded by nazi soldiers as they leave the country, you might as well retire old standards as you rebuild things. otherwise it's so hard to switch to a different standard in some things.
21:01:00 <rdococ> s/wrong side/left side/
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22:28:19 <rdococ> I'm working on a concept for a language in which strings are composed of words, rather than characters. Should punctuation be considered part of the word, or part of the whitespace?
22:30:34 <garit2> rdococ: i would suggest not to do that. But if you really want, then you could select just 1 separation symbol. But even then you might find bad cases like 'apple tree "red fish" hammer', where people try to make a single word with quotes or other way to try to find escape characters..
22:32:06 <rdococ> garit2: Do you mean that "I would suggest not to do that, even in an esoteric language", or "I would suggest not to do that in a non-esoteric language"?
22:32:51 <garit2> Definitely second, and even in first case - may be. I dont see any case where it might be good and many cases where it will cause troubles
22:35:14 <garit2> Unless you make something like a new brainfuck, hehe =) im not sure if you actually plan to use it anywnere
22:36:23 <rdococ> garit2: Okay. Well, I was considering different methods to pass function (well, continuation) arguments.
22:37:19 <rdococ> Uh... what do you think I should go for? I was thinking "by reference" so that functions could modify variables passed to them, but then what about arguments which aren't valid R-values (e.g. "3", or "a + 1")?
22:39:45 <rdococ> Is that in the "break mathematics and logic" kind of way?
22:40:08 <rdococ> Because that just sounds kind of odd to me.
22:43:12 <doesthiswork> haskel allows you to let expressions be whatever you like such as "let 1+1 = 5 in 1+1"
22:43:37 <rdococ> That's pretty odd, then.
22:44:07 <doesthiswork> so you can uniformly pass expressions by reference
22:45:34 <rdococ> doesthiswork: I had the idea that variables would basically be pointers, and you would have to dereference them to access their values.
22:46:51 <rdococ> E.G. "a = 3" assigns 3 to the variable 'a', but "a" isn't 3; "a" is just a reference/pointer to 3. So, to get the value of "a" (3 in this case), you would have to dereference it e.g. "@a" (meaning '[value] at a').
22:46:54 <doesthiswork> wouldn't you then just be passing everything by value?
22:47:55 <rdococ> Well, passing "a" to a function would mean that the function parameter - let's say it was named "x", now holds "a". Meaning that "@x" is "a", and "@@x" is 3.
22:48:09 <rdococ> @3 would be the third object in memory, I would suppose.
22:50:35 <rdococ> The idea is that "a = 3" is writing the value of 3 to a, while "@a" is getting the value at a. I might be completely wrong here, but I think it's basically an abstracted form of a memory address.
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22:51:15 <rdococ> If I wasn't completely wrong, "a" could function as a memory address. "a = 3" would write 3 to that memory address, while "@a" would get the value stored there.
22:52:23 <doesthiswork> do you have an anti @ to get the address of a value?
22:52:26 <rdococ> It's basically dynamic allocation. I think.
22:54:19 <rdococ> "a = 3; @a = 4" would set the value of the third variable (since they're not *exactly* memory addresses, rather weird... references with pointer-like arithmetic) to 4.
22:54:37 <rdococ> "a + 1" would evaluate to the variable after "a".
22:54:54 <rdococ> (Not its value, of course. That'd be @(a + 1).)
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23:12:29 <\oren\> hmm, suppose all function arguments are mutable
23:15:32 <\oren\> would result in the source file reading
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23:33:15 <\oren\> holy shit I might get to go to singapore!
23:34:33 <boily> Singapore is nice!
23:34:36 <boily> the food is amazing!
23:34:51 <boily> the weather is horribly warm and hot and humid and sweaty, though...
23:35:29 <boily> but the botanical gardens are beautiful!
23:35:36 <boily> and the zoo is fun!
23:35:45 <boily> and the bird park is stupefying!
23:35:58 <boily> and the food is really good!