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00:58:05 <oerjan> grmbl windows appears to have managed to reboot without my permission.
00:58:22 <ais523> it does that due to mandated updates
00:58:39 <oerjan> i had applied a hack that was supposed to prevent it.
01:05:45 <oerjan> the most annoying thing is that although it tried to restart the browser, it came up with a halfway wrong set of tabs.
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01:09:17 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAAA!
01:09:41 <boily> fungot: NOSTRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIL!
01:09:41 <fungot> boily: they say that an opulent throne room is rarely a place to go to my lair to die. ( wump ( 6) " fillet of a sort, yet there was no sword in its eyes.
01:09:57 <boily> HELLØØØØØØØØØØØØØØØRJAN!
01:10:45 <ais523> is fungot playing NetHack again?
01:10:45 <fungot> ais523: polymorph into an unknown being. a towel, it is even more muddled and confused. ( fog, by patrick mcgoohan)
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01:21:49 <boily> fungot: you're already an unknown being. stop polymorphing.
01:21:49 <fungot> boily: rogue, and hung upon the stays to dry. our stout boots, leathern breeks and deerskin shirts, with a +5 shovel. able to shapeshift, his unpopularity may have been introduced by the all-restrainer hupnos. his nature by which he holds, consisting of a sort of a pearly whiteness; but these luxuriances only formed a more horrid contrast with his claws and poison their unwary victims as well as grabbing and crushing the life o
01:21:49 <oerjan> hmph the SO thread i found it now has a comment that the hack no longer works. and hasn't for about a year :P
01:21:49 <oerjan> i guess i've just been diligent with rebooting by hand in time.
01:21:49 <oerjan> except now. i don't remember getting a message that it was _about_ to reboot.
01:21:54 <oerjan> of course i cannot find a new, up to date answer.
01:22:16 <fizzie> ais523: Yes, I set the style to that the other week, and it seems to have stuck.
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01:30:40 <fizzie> "The Norway model" is often in the papers here these days, what with people speculating about post-Brexit scenarios.
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01:42:33 * oerjan sets his activity period to 15:00 - 09:00
01:42:49 <oerjan> that should be reasonable _most_ days.
01:43:21 <oerjan> (yep, it's pretty much the inverse of everyone else)
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02:00:40 <Downgoat> for the code-golf site. I was wondering if anyone here has any ideas on who should be allowed to edit posts
02:00:46 <Downgoat> Stack Exchange allows pretty much everyone
02:01:04 <ais523> Downgoat: one big idea I had/rediscovered since our last conversation
02:01:21 <ais523> is to have, instead of two layers (challenge/answer), three layers (challenge/answer/note)
02:01:29 <ais523> anyone can submit a note on anyone else's answer (or their own)
02:01:39 <ais523> containing explanations, questions, further commentary, etc.
02:01:53 <ais523> I'm thinking that an answer would just be the code of an answer, and the explanation would be a note
02:02:00 <ais523> that way you can have competing explanations for the same answer
02:02:26 <ais523> if you do that there wouldn't be much need to be able to edit other peoples' posts; on PPCG editing someone else's post to golf it is discouraged, and editing in an explanation wouldn't be needed as you could just add your own
02:02:31 <Downgoat> So kinda like reddit where you can respond to a post's 'answer' with another 'post'
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02:07:24 <ais523> I think it's beneficial for anyone to be able to edit challenges, at least before they go live
02:07:43 <ais523> (I'm thinking we sandbox challenges "in-place" but without the ability to answer, then vote them open when we think they're ready)
02:10:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Resplicate]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=53366 * Ais523 * (+24) an all-lowercase redirect will allow any capitalisation of the word to be found in search, and this is a hard word to capitalise correctly
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02:46:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53367&oldid=53264 * Ais523 * (+25) +[[Category:Queue-based]]
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03:37:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Avuxo * New user account
03:39:13 <Downgoat> ais523: yeah, there is a special button to submit to a 'review' mode rather than a publish so you can get feedback
03:40:06 <ais523> perhaps that could be automatic for all problems? I proposed that on PPCG and it was rejected because of the way that the new questions list sorted, but that wouldn't be a problem if we could define our own sort orders
03:41:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53368&oldid=53360 * Avuxo * (+285) /* Introductions */
03:41:40 <ais523> oh, this reminds me: another useful feature would be a) hiding answers to a question by default (with an option to permanently unhide them) so that people can work on a problem unspoilt, b) allowing identical or similar answers by different people but merging identical anwers and hiding worse answers by default unless they were voted signfiicantly different
03:41:56 <ais523> this would give us most of the advantages of anagolf in addition to most of the advantages of PPCG
03:42:18 <ais523> the FGITW problem on PPCG is nasty, having it so that if ten people independently come up with the same answer they all get credit seems better
03:42:46 <ais523> (this might lead to people cheating using a second account / logging out / whatever, but as long as there's no real reward the incentive for cheating should be low and it should also be fairly easy to detect)
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04:50:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53369&oldid=53235 * Ais523 * (+17) I forgot to add A Pear Tree
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05:38:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tfbninja * New user account
05:49:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53370&oldid=53368 * Tfbninja * (+306) /* Introductions */
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05:56:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aceto]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53371&oldid=52015 * Tfbninja * (-2) /* Grammar */
05:56:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aceto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53372&oldid=53371 * Tfbninja * (+19) /* Examples */
05:58:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aceto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53373&oldid=53372 * Tfbninja * (+11) /* Examples */
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07:37:15 <sleffy> shachaf, I got Philip Wadler to sign my laptop
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07:38:32 <sleffy> ah, I seem to have skipped the pleasantries. My apologies.
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08:50:43 <HackEgo> ysaclist 68: boily shachaf
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09:33:00 <\oren\> hmm. I can infer it. 25 people have highscores >1000. global achievment stats say that's 4.7% of players
09:33:32 <\oren\> 25 / 4.7 * 100 = 532 people own this game, and I'mranked number 111
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09:38:58 <\oren\> http://steamcommunity.com/stats/498470/leaderboards/1394823/?sr=106
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12:52:17 <b_jonas> Oh. Apparently http://www.bardsworth.com/ has announced a few months ago that the comic is abandonned. Pity.
12:54:14 <b_jonas> I think this is the first time I've seen a webcomic where the author honestly announced that he's abandonning the comic forever. "We the robots" just said it's on an indefinite hiatus.
12:54:56 <b_jonas> Most of the comics that are stuck in an incomplete state don't have any kind of announcement, they just de facto don't update.
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16:18:04 <ais523> hmm, the recent Firefox upgrade is a really big one; they should have bumped the major version number for it but they ended up devaluing their version number ages ago
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16:18:46 <ais523> that said, it's broken a lot of extensions; NoScript say that they haven't quite got ready in time for the release and are hoping to have a working extension soon
16:18:52 <ais523> so atm I'm browsing with JavaScript turned off entirely
16:19:21 <ais523> most things still work, the things that don't are mostly sending content to websites (as opposed to reading them)
16:20:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aceto]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53374&oldid=53373 * Tfbninja * (+42) /* Examples */
16:20:44 <Roger9> I'm somewhat more lenient on scripts running, but I do have an addon that detects and disables trackers.
16:28:59 <ais523> most scripts actively make the sites they're on worse
16:29:25 <ais523> normally I whitelist exceptions, but there aren't any fine-grained extensions that work yet so I had to go for the simple, overparanoid option
16:29:28 <ais523> it's an interesting experience
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16:37:44 <int-e> ais523: Do you know about Wang tilings? I wonder how big the smallest set is for which tilability of the plane is unknown.
16:40:39 <ais523> int-e: vaguely, I can't remember the details
16:40:52 <ais523> are those just a mathematical formalization of jigsaw puzzles?
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16:43:05 <int-e> ais523: With fixed orientation of pieces, yes.
16:44:27 <int-e> But I'll take it as a no. (basically, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_tile isn't as informative as I'd like, though perhaps I could find the answer by following some of the references.)
16:45:25 <ais523> so Wang tilings are obviously TC as you can implement But Is It Art? with them
16:45:42 <ais523> (that's a weird language to go via for TCness proofs…)
16:46:34 <b_jonas> ais523: which recent firefox update? ah yes, the one that broke all extensions.
16:47:17 <b_jonas> is that even recent? I think it's been out months ago.
16:47:45 <ais523> it got pushed to Ubuntu yesterday
16:48:11 <b_jonas> ais523: what? isn't that backwards? I thought you can implement wang tiles using But Is It Art, because wang tiles are on a square grid, one tile for each square, with just the borders different,
16:48:26 <b_jonas> whereas But Is It Art tiles can be of any contiguous shape
16:48:30 <ais523> b_jonas: you can do it either way
16:48:49 <ais523> to compile BIIA? into Wang Tiles, you create a unique border code for each internal square connection in the BIIA? program
16:48:51 <b_jonas> oh, you use multiple wang tiles to emulate a ButArt tiles?
16:48:59 <ais523> while using a single continuous border code for the outside of the BIIA? tiles
16:49:30 <ais523> anyway, this comes down to "what's the shortest program for which we're not sure whether or not it halts?"
16:49:38 <ais523> if PPCG doesn't have a question for that already, it ought to
16:50:00 <b_jonas> Ok, but this is still a bit backwards, because I thought we knew that wang tiles are TC because the TAOCP claims that or something very close, and we prove that But Art is turing complete using that.
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16:51:16 <ais523> I can't find it but it's a hard thing to search for
16:51:33 <ais523> b_jonas: infinite BIIA (and infinite Wang tiles, for that matter) can simulate arbitrary cellular automato
16:51:34 <b_jonas> hmm... let me look it up. I think it might not have been called Wang tiles
16:52:48 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, infinite 1d CA or something like that would be the reasonable proof, but I've read TAOCP first three volumes Hungarian translation (based on old editions) early when I was young so it sort of skewed my knowledge, many things it stated I still consider more basic than really more basic things
16:53:32 <b_jonas> ais523: oh come on, it *is* called Wang. just look up Wang in the index of TAOCP vol 1.
16:53:47 <b_jonas> let me see what exactly it claims about it
16:56:09 <b_jonas> although it is in a starred section
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16:58:45 <b_jonas> hmm, I think you might be right, this doesn't claim anywhere that this is turing-complete
17:14:51 <int-e> ais523: well, it's easy to find the answer for Turing Machines because of the busy beaver function.
17:15:47 <int-e> cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busy_beaver#Exact_values_and_lower_bounds
17:17:56 <b_jonas> .oO(I think ais knows that)
17:18:20 <b_jonas> int-e: it's not necessarily *easier* to find the answer, it's just more researched already
17:18:49 <int-e> b_jonas: the answer *was* about the state of the art
17:19:22 <int-e> b_jonas: I was using "finding" in the sense of locating the information.
17:22:10 <ais523> int-e: I assume that if the value of the busy beaver function is not listed as an exact number, it means that there's at least one program of that size for which we don't know whether it halts?
17:22:25 <ais523> (I can conceiveably imagine that there's a program for which we do know that it halts, but don't know how long it takes)
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17:25:37 <int-e> https://www.f6s.com/sergiodemianlerner <-- meh, an unpublished proof?!
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17:32:37 <int-e> ais523: http://www.logique.jussieu.fr/~michel/ha.html says that "The study of Turing machines with 5 states and 2 symbols is still going on." and I have no reason to believe that it was resolved in the meantime.
17:41:05 <quintopia> what's lambdabot's callsign again?
17:41:47 <ais523> hmm, fungot isn't here
17:41:54 <ais523> it's @ anyway, I think
17:41:58 <ais523> although it responds to ? sometimes too
17:42:01 <ais523> and has a special case for >
17:42:17 <quintopia> @tell boily I probably can't 22, but I may be able to 26
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17:43:24 <b_jonas> whta's the question mark thing?
17:43:41 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
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18:04:48 <b_jonas> so apparently M:tG Unstable is going to have some sort of combo creatures made from two cards, with some cards dedicated as front halves and some dedicated as back halves.
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18:05:59 <b_jonas> maybe it just has place splicing of two arbitrary creatures.
18:07:52 <b_jonas> hmm, and I think the back halves will work as standalone creatures too.
18:09:21 <b_jonas> I wonder how this will work
18:10:12 <b_jonas> wait, the back halves have supertype Host?
18:10:37 <b_jonas> is that what MaRo meant by a mythic vanilla creature, because the supertype doesn't count?
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18:29:59 <b_jonas> And apparently the front half has a trigger condition and the back half an action, and together they form a triggered ability.
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19:38:45 <int-e> . o O ( "pure speculation" would be a fine name for a Haskell fintech company :P )
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23:23:40 <wob_jonas> zzo38: you'll have to update your M:tG variant rules about card names for the Unstable augment mechanic.
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23:24:48 <quintopia> has anyone ever written a boolfuck program that computes the factorial of arbitrarily large numbers ?
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