←2017-11-23 2017-11-24 2017-11-25→ ↑2017 ↑all
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00:23:16 <fizzie> Hmm. Wonder if ffmpeg could render two different streams of subtitles on top of a video (say top and bottom). Probably.
00:24:33 <oerjan> spämmi!
00:24:44 <oerjan> i think it's been a while since the last one.
00:24:51 <oerjan> lots of bitcoin spam though.
00:27:27 <fizzie> oerjan: Are they telling you you could make a guaranteed $13000 in just 24 hours, or some such?
00:28:40 <fizzie> Although just now there's Rainer from Vienna, who I've allegedly met 2 months ago in a hotel and asked to tell me how to get "extra money on crypto currencies".
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00:31:59 <oerjan> helloily!
00:32:13 <oerjan> fizzie: i don't remember
00:32:27 <boily> hellørjan!
00:32:33 <boily> fizziello!
00:32:37 <boily> QUINTHELLOPIA!
00:32:41 <oerjan> but obviously with bitcoin raising eightfold in a few months it's the thing to spam.
00:32:57 <oerjan> `? bitcoin
00:32:59 <HackEgo> bitcoins are coins that have been drilled through with a bit, and can be strung together in long chains. This practice dates to ancient China, and the Chinese remain experts in bitcoin manufacturing. A chain can support up to 21 million coins before breaking.
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01:37:42 <oerjan> helloony
01:41:06 <oerjan> <shachaf> Is baking not a type of cooking? <-- possibly, but not for the scandinavian cognates - "koking" means boiling
01:41:25 <oerjan> (which might have confused Vorpal)
01:42:38 * oerjan assumes speaking to americans is fairly useless at the moment
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01:43:52 <ais523> oerjan: quite likely
01:44:02 <ais523> I never really understood Thanksgiving, and notably how it differs from Christmas
01:44:05 <ais523> the two seem very similar
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01:44:34 <\oren\> `? thankgiving
01:44:37 <HackEgo> thankgiving? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:44:39 <shachaf> helloerjan
01:44:41 <\oren\> `? thanksgiving
01:44:42 <HackEgo> thanksgiving? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:44:55 <shachaf> Thanksgiving is not quite my holiday
01:45:40 <ais523> huh, Wikipedia implies that the US Thanksgiving is the equivalent of (genetically related to, as much as holidays have genes) the british Harvest Festival
01:45:47 <ais523> and yet they're really quite different in nature
01:45:49 <oerjan> hm are they even cognates actually
01:46:16 <ais523> in the UK what basically happens is that people donate food to the school (normally tinned food), they make a big display out of it
01:46:19 <ais523> and then give it all to food banks
01:46:49 <ais523> I think its main purpose is to educate children about where food comes from
01:47:01 <ais523> which is not something that you automatically know without being told
01:47:08 <oerjan> shachaf: do american jews celebrate thanksgiving in general?
01:47:52 <oerjan> (it's not strictly a religious holiday, so i wouldn't know)
01:48:51 <pikhq> Seems as though what happened is Britain had a tradition of a large harvest, which was retained more recognizably in the US, and in the UK mutated rather heavily?
01:48:55 <pikhq> *large harvest feast
01:49:38 <ais523> pikhq: right, it was more celebrating the end of the harvest, I think
01:49:45 <ais523> you've done all the work gathering the food you need for the winter
01:49:50 <ais523> may as well celebrate by eating some of it
01:50:23 <pikhq> I think part of it, though, is just the US has a myth that connects it to our national origins.
01:50:40 <pikhq> Which naturally will tend to keep it a bit more recognizable.
01:50:52 <shachaf> I don't know
01:51:16 <shachaf> ais523: I heard that buying tinned food and donating it to food banks is a very inefficient use of money
01:51:23 <shachaf> Better to give the food banks the money directly
01:51:39 <ais523> shachaf: not /very/ inefficient, but it does waste some money because they can purchas in bulk
01:51:53 <ais523> it's a very efficient use if you had the food already and just forgot to eat it, and it's getting close to expired
01:52:22 <shachaf> Well, they might also purchase different things, not just the same things in bulk
01:53:00 <ais523> I wonder if the extra cheerfullness factor from the food having been selected by children trying to be kind has any effect
01:53:32 <oerjan> oh en:cook and no:koke _are_ cognate, but both are latin borrowings.
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01:57:32 <ais523> shachaf: come to think of it, I suspect the food is involved unconditionally because that's what the festival requires
01:57:41 <ais523> and it gets donated to food banks merely to avoid having to throw it away
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02:00:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang talk:Funding]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=53415&oldid=53377 * Fizzie * (+1947) Reply and reorganize a bit.
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02:46:59 <oerjan> fizzie: rainer from vienna finally got around to me, it seems
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03:01:45 <fizzie> oerjan: Rainer sent me a second email just now. They must be getting desperate.
03:02:50 <moonythedwarf> who's rainer
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08:50:26 <zzo38> In addition to official Un-cards of Magic: the Gathering, some people make up unofficial Un-cards. You can have cards that you rip in half as you draft them, tapping/untapping stuff other than permanents, unexplained keyword abilities, adding stuff other than mana into your mana pool, and demons in your nose.
08:52:37 <shachaf> Can you tap/untap a player?
08:52:42 <shachaf> What about the stack?
08:54:06 <zzo38> Of course you can't tap/untap a player or the stack (or any objects in the stack). But, Un-cards can ignore this!
08:58:57 <zzo38> Holy Priests of the Future {WW} Creature - Human Cleric (1/1) ;; Faith-Healing ;; Bands with other creatures having at least as much faith as ~
09:02:09 <shachaf> You don't like mushrooms, right?
09:02:17 <shachaf> How about cashew nuts?
09:12:20 <zzo38> I don't know
09:16:48 <zzo38> This is the one that was suggested by this IRC: Demons In Your Nose {UB} Instant ;; If there are any Demons in your nose, you may cast them. Each of those spells gains flying.
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09:28:03 <Phoeni> boo
09:29:36 <Phoeni> there apparently used to be people who knew things about Conway Game of Life here
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09:37:53 <shachaf> Who?
09:39:37 <zzo38> I know some things about, but, perhaps not much more than what the rules are.
09:40:13 <zzo38> (And I made a program that can execute it, too)
09:48:29 <shachaf> Jafet made a HashLife implementation in Mathematica in here once
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09:49:26 <Phoeni> this channel showed up in a 7 year old board thread
09:49:33 <Phoeni> so I said hey why not
09:49:37 <int-e> . o O ( The do-s and don't-s of M:tG card design: Don't. )
09:49:57 <Phoeni> but if you program zzo you are half (something?) qualified (theoretically) to answer my next question
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09:50:40 <Phoeni> ahh, I have fond memories of Magic
09:50:53 <Phoeni> Magic Was a Way of Life.. or .. uh FOCUS Phoeni : )
09:50:56 <Phoeni> so
09:51:09 <Phoeni> classic 5am question
09:51:22 <Phoeni> what's the smallest initial form that has the biggest explosion in complexity?
09:51:28 <Phoeni> could be a few answers
09:51:37 <Phoeni> the one on the top of my head is R pentamonio
09:51:48 <shachaf> Is there a standard measure for that?
09:51:54 <Phoeni> I don't know
09:51:56 <Phoeni> hence why I am here
09:52:24 <Phoeni> one of my awesome 5am scribbles that explodes like R penta .. and then ... oh shit it got Meta
09:52:26 <shachaf> I imagine that most reasonable meanings of complexity grow BB-style in the size of the initial pattern
09:52:29 <Phoeni> Douglas Hofstadter Likes thisd
09:52:35 <Phoeni> I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
09:53:07 <Phoeni> So among the things I don't know is "how to measure" as pointed out
09:53:15 <Phoeni> R Penta goes BALLISTIC
09:53:26 <Phoeni> but say an 8 item pattern could go "more"
09:53:30 <Phoeni> but it "starts bigger" etc
09:53:35 <Phoeni> all this stuff
09:54:08 <int-e> http://www.conwaylife.com/w/index.php?title=Infinite_growth#Small_infinite_growth_patterns
09:54:23 <Phoeni> so zzo38 for example if you are a programmer you could just do an Add-on
09:55:27 <Phoeni> "...giving several 11-cell patterns with infinite growth"
09:55:39 <Phoeni> But just because it adds glider guns or stuff
09:55:45 <Phoeni> somehow that's not "complex"
09:55:51 <Phoeni> more questions : )
09:56:32 <Phoeni> BUT borrowing from that article I'll grab a vocab word
09:57:02 <Phoeni> something like R Penta and then SOMEWHERE in the life cycle add 1 pixel in the most compact way to keep it going
09:57:12 <Phoeni> like "feeding" the life
09:57:35 <Phoeni> so the end result "keeps wandering all over doing stuff"
09:58:05 <Phoeni> So THAT is my second level question
09:58:09 <Phoeni> the first half was warmup
09:58:13 <Phoeni> - ------------------
10:05:31 <Vorpal> <oerjan> <shachaf> Is baking not a type of cooking? <-- possibly, but not for the scandinavian cognates - "koking" means boiling
10:05:31 <Vorpal> <oerjan> (which might have confused Vorpal)
10:05:34 <Vorpal> ah yes
10:06:02 <shachaf> Is Vorpal Scandinavian?
10:06:10 <Vorpal> shachaf: I'm from Sweden yes
10:06:36 <shachaf> But you live in -- the UK?
10:06:39 <Vorpal> nope
10:06:41 <Vorpal> I live in Sweden
10:07:07 <shachaf> I thought maybe you were in the US.
10:07:27 <shachaf> My memory is no good.
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10:46:28 <fizzie> Vorpal: By the way, since we've tended to share these -- it's not exactly a panorama, but I was out taking pictures of a Light Thing the other night: https://zem.fi/tmp/beamrules.jpg
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12:32:54 <Vorpal> fizzie: A "light thing"?
12:33:01 <Vorpal> it is quite pretty yes
12:33:11 <Vorpal> fizzie: lasers into fog?
12:33:56 <Vorpal> fizzie: by the way, the only reason I have been on at all this week is that I have been home with a severe cold, so I had nothing better to do
12:34:51 <Vorpal> with regards to "not paying attention to internet stuff" I mentioned yesterday
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13:03:16 <fizzie> Vorpal: I think those were just regular lights into fog. But there were some lasers as well: https://zem.fi/tmp/lasers.jpg
13:03:31 <fizzie> Vorpal: And just lights in general: https://zem.fi/tmp/gates.jpg
13:03:48 <Vorpal> fizzie: you live in a cool place!
13:05:04 <fizzie> Vorpal: My wife says it makes no sense London has all these things and Finland/Helsinki has none, even though the latter would have ample supplies of darkness and woodland.
13:08:17 <Vorpal> I agree
13:08:27 <fizzie> There's at least three recurring yearly light shows somewhat like this (the photos are from Syon Park's Enchanted Woodland, but there's also the Magical Lantern Festival at Chiswick House and Christmas at Kew in Kew Gardens) plus some more conventional "light art" thingies (Winter Lights Festival at Canary Wharf, the Lumiere festival just generally around London).
13:11:53 <fizzie> I flickr'd some photos of the Canary Wharf one last year, https://www.flickr.com/photos/fizzief/albums/72157676045132054
13:12:53 <fizzie> (Oh, and apparently the Magic Lantern Festival as well.)
13:15:02 <Vorpal> fizzie: looks cool, especially the ones with horizontal ribbons between the trees
13:15:10 <Vorpal> how was that made?
13:15:51 <fizzie> I think that was just physical ribbons coated with something that glows under UV light, and then some UV lamps pointed at them on the ground.
13:15:57 <Vorpal> aah
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13:25:38 <zseri> I think I should try to execute some parts of the XTW interpreter parallel.
13:37:48 <zseri> especially in the VM
13:39:04 <b_jonas> `ping the VM didn't magically come into life, right?
13:39:08 <HackEgo> pong
13:39:12 <b_jonas> whoa!
13:39:13 <b_jonas> it did?
13:39:17 <b_jonas> what happened?
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13:41:02 <fizzie> b_jonas: Was it not-alive then?
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13:43:15 <b_jonas> fizzie: non-alive when?
13:43:23 <b_jonas> it was non-alive a few days ago
13:44:23 <b_jonas> fizzie: I wonder, instead of random people sending money to you, does any of the virtual machine providers support the option where random people can pay money directly to the hosting provider over the internet and that money appears on that virtual machine's account if they add the rihgt incantation?
13:44:53 <fizzie> Oh, that. Yeah, it's been back for quite a while now. I don't think it was down for more than four days or so.
13:45:47 <b_jonas> um... I was busy then, or something
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13:46:36 <fizzie> I don't know if "non-owner payments" are a thing with any provider. Could be.
13:46:47 <fizzie> The one I've been looking for accepts bitcoins, FWIW.
13:47:08 <fizzie> s/for/at/
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15:16:49 <Gregor> Oh boy, Cloud at Cost is having a Black Friday sale ;)
15:20:21 <fizzie> Quick, let's buy more of them.
15:30:00 <fizzie> Here's a rather random question, but I'm having some trouble Googli.. I mean, searching Google for it. Does anyone happen to know if there exists a cheap device for plugging a POTS landline handset to a computer in a full-duplex way?
15:30:04 <fizzie> All I can find are (a) record-only boxes that slot between the phone base and the mic/speaker handset, (b) FXO devices that make a computer be able to interact with a POTS system, and (c) a few very Skype-specific USB devices intended for doing Skype calls from an old landline phone.
15:30:12 <fizzie> I just basically want to make an old phone an audio I/O device. (Or possibly just the handset part, but it'd be more elegant to use the entire phone.)
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15:36:40 <zzo38> Do you know how to make such a device?
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15:54:23 <fizzie> Not really. I used to have a voice-capable ISA modem card that might've been able to do it, but that's back in Finland anyway.
15:54:26 <fizzie> I've found a few instructions about the handset part (though mostly just about recording), and that might be easier, since AIUI it's really just a specific kind of microphone and speaker. The phone system itself is probably a little more involved.
15:54:31 <fizzie> I'm not particularly good at electronics.
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17:02:42 <int-e> Heh, CaC is spamming me.
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17:38:44 <izabera> haha discounted crap
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18:40:50 <fizzie> Some closure: looks like the thing I was talking about is called a "FXS adapter" in telephony land, and there are no cheap ones, except for build-your-own projects. The cheapest alternative seems to be some sort of standalone VOIP box, which can be had in the £15-20 price range used.
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19:51:32 <Phoeni> hallo gang
19:51:46 <Phoeni> I'll repeat since I posted my question when no one was up
19:51:52 <Phoeni> any experts on Conway's Game of Life here?
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21:17:11 <garit> Phoeni: i watched two and half YouTube videos about it, so im an expert. Feel free to ask your question =)
21:18:03 <Phoeni> Hooray!
21:18:18 <Phoeni> How far did your videos take you?
21:18:33 <Phoeni> "and a HAALF!" (Eddie Murphy) : )
21:18:42 <Phoeni> (HAAAAYYAAALF!!) )
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21:18:43 <Phoeni> Sorry
21:18:56 <Phoeni> Let's start easy
21:19:21 <Phoeni> So you make dots, and they either are lonely and die off, or crowded, and the middle one die of
21:19:35 <Phoeni> and most really early positions in the "crowded" stage die off in stages
21:19:42 <Phoeni> so far so good?
21:22:25 <zzo38> The cells are formed into patterns.
21:24:37 <Phoeni> but patterns from a set of rules that you re calculate turn after turn
21:25:12 <Phoeni> zzo38 you were here earlier
21:25:19 <Phoeni> do you still have your program?
21:26:33 <Phoeni> I just checked, and the 5 dot config called R pentamonio dies off in about 1100 turns
21:26:40 <Phoeni> and it has a boundary
21:27:09 <Phoeni> so it can't be that hard to run it 3200 times adding one pixel at a time a bunch of choices
21:27:28 <b_jonas> Phoeni: it doesn't die off. it emits multiple gliders.
21:27:39 <b_jonas> or was that another pattern?
21:27:43 <Phoeni> well I am skipping the gliders
21:27:57 <Phoeni> I saw those, but one sec lemme look at something again
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21:29:28 <Phoeni> ot taking the time to count exactly, it produces 4-5 gliders so they "end off into space" but in the main colony it stabilizes
21:29:39 <Phoeni> that's what I am referrring to
21:30:08 <Phoeni> but before that it gets into all these fantastic patterns
21:30:41 <Phoeni> so I am curious if you add 1 pixel somewhere in the run if you can keep it going wild without locking down
21:31:09 <Phoeni> probably not just 1, so there is some sets of minimum numbers of pixels per overall complexity growth
21:31:29 <Phoeni> but since the original is FIVE and it explodes into 1100 cycles
21:31:36 <Phoeni> it can't be that many new pixels
21:31:45 <garit> So whats your question
21:32:01 <Phoeni> I just typed it
21:32:07 <garit> Strange stuff is happening and there is no way to quickly predict it (usually)
21:32:14 <Phoeni> so I am curious if you add 1 pixel somewhere in the run if you can keep it going wild without locking down
21:32:31 <Phoeni> right, so just a brute force
21:32:39 <garit> Yes
21:32:45 <Phoeni> that's my question
21:33:01 <Phoeni> because a computer can do it in an organized fashion
21:33:13 <garit> you can greatly optimize the execution though
21:33:21 <Phoeni> and 1100 steps is small, this slow web version was done in ten seconds
21:33:29 <garit> by press calculating whole patterns, excluding empty areas, etc
21:33:45 <Phoeni> sure
21:33:54 <garit> computer can calculate something like 1 billion cell-steps per second
21:33:56 <Phoeni> so I am just curious how to find out
21:34:22 <garit> brute force
21:34:37 <Phoeni> in this case "a billion cell steps' but with the "wonders of multi plex sims" it's 110 steps times (guess) 2000 locations for the pixel
21:34:39 <garit> there are no way to solve it algorithmically
21:35:05 <garit> game of life is Turing complete, you can encode any program in it
21:35:22 <garit> so ny making quick prediction about it, you could solve any possible problem faster
21:35:24 <garit> by*
21:35:27 <Phoeni> I'd just like to see it programmed out
21:36:13 <Phoeni> I came here because the room title was obscure programming stuff and specifically a board post said a few people knew some stuff about it and zzo38 earlier said he'd already made one
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21:38:19 <Phoeni> it sounded like an easy test case for a programmer to crank out
21:38:31 <Phoeni> if anyone cared
21:39:06 <garit2> Solving quick game of life simulation = solving all possible programs
21:39:38 <garit2> its literally the same, as asking to solve how to simulate any given program faster than it takes usually
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21:41:00 <Phoeni> you're right but answering a diff question than I had
21:41:03 <zzo38> I do still have the program of course
21:41:09 <Phoeni> I was looking for one quick piece of data
21:41:22 <Phoeni> heh "of course" - heh things happen
21:41:28 <Phoeni> programs get lost to dead hard drives : )
21:42:13 <Phoeni> but so zzo38 in concept *I think* all you'd have to do is put a loop and add 1 pixel to the run of the center population ignoring the gliders once they're out of range
21:42:26 <Phoeni> and see which one pixel adds the most to the whole colony
21:42:45 <Phoeni> possibly two
21:43:03 <Phoeni> or because of the crowding rule deleting one pizel
21:43:06 <Phoeni> same idea
21:43:53 <Phoeni> I just had the idea to add some food : )
21:44:44 <Phoeni> I have Wolfram's New Kind of Science but last I looked it over I didn't see the Food idea
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22:13:14 <quintopia> like the legend of the phoeni...
22:16:05 <shachaf> Wasn't that a book by Nesbit?
22:16:13 <shachaf> Oh, no, I'm mixing up two books by Nesbit.
22:17:55 <quintopia> if you add an "x", it's the opening line of daft punk's "get lucky" and the name of an upcoming anthology from gilded dragonfly books
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22:25:44 <Phoeni> y'all are partly right
22:25:53 <Phoeni> this is a new channel for me to ne in
22:26:12 <Phoeni> Phoenix is right, just like you think, and more accurately, the male one from the Egyptian lineage
22:26:32 <Phoeni> the missing X is some mostly forgotten wordplay little thing I was pondering one year
22:26:46 <Phoeni> and IRC only lets you sorta have 1 name per network
22:28:50 <zzo38> You can use NS GROUP to add multiple names to your account if you want to do, although only one name is in use at once.
22:29:57 <Phoeni> ooh that's new to me, what's that?
22:30:20 <Phoeni> Fortunately I don't have all that many, but userenames are how the net runs and it's irritating
22:30:28 <zzo38> An account is not required, but it is possible to do. Issue the command "NS HELP" to the IRC server for a description.
22:30:51 <Phoeni> is that freenode only or across most of the big networks?
22:31:14 <Phoeni> NS HELP
22:31:33 <zzo38> Not all IRC networks implement it, but some do. (Which subcommands are implemented under NS also can differ by network)
22:32:17 <Phoeni> so then do I Identify back and forth?
22:32:51 <Phoeni> so yes I came across Nickserv isn't on all the networks, but I'll deal with that later
22:33:00 <Phoeni> just doing basics today : )
22:34:01 <zzo38> If you are registered, then you can use the PASS or NS IDENTIFY command to authenticate so that you can be logged in.
22:34:15 <Phoeni> I am registered for Phoeni
22:34:18 <Phoeni> I did some time back
22:34:25 <Phoeni> but how do you switch names?
22:34:35 <zzo38> Issue the NICK command to switch names.
22:34:44 <Phoeni> right that part I got
22:34:52 <Phoeni> oh wait
22:34:57 <Phoeni> I might be confusing myself
22:35:10 <Phoeni> lemme think
22:35:38 <Phoeni> A. So if I am in teo IRC channels at the same time, I can't have two nicks going at once, unless that's what Group does
22:35:57 <zzo38> You can have only one name per connection.
22:35:59 <Phoeni> two
22:36:03 <Phoeni> right
22:36:21 <zzo38> You need two connections if you want to use two names at once.
22:36:29 <Phoeni> B, THEN, I think Twitch gets grouchy and only wants one twitch name per (something)
22:36:53 <Phoeni> so my gaming twitch gets smashed into my chess twitch name
22:37:20 <Phoeni> sure I've done landline and mobile before
22:37:22 <Phoeni> two connectionds
22:37:37 <Phoeni> Does that work for Twitch too
22:37:50 <Phoeni> So at home I might have to do AdiIRC and Kiwi or something
22:38:27 <zzo38> I don't mean landline and mobile; I mean just connecting twice to the IRC server, with the same IRC client for both connections if it supports multiple connections to the same server.
22:39:26 <zzo38> (Different IRC clients work differently, and you may need to look at the documentation for the IRC client you are using.)
22:41:22 <Phoeni> hm that's new to me too, also something to think about
22:41:32 <Phoeni> things to do when not studying
22:53:02 <zseri> I use hexchat here, and I think it supports two connections to the same server but I'm not sure.
22:53:45 <Phoeni> I did a survey of clients about 3 years ago and AdiIRc becae my "winner"
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22:54:18 <Phoeni> and I think I glanced at hexchat but it just didn't make my list for now lost reasons to do with intuition
22:57:35 -!- zseri_ has joined.
22:57:46 <zseri> ok, works
22:57:54 -!- zseri_ has left.
23:03:14 -!- boily has joined.
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23:05:54 <boily> @massages-loud
23:05:54 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
23:12:25 <doesthiswork> @massages-loud
23:12:25 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
23:19:19 <Roger9> <lambdabot> You don't have any massages
23:20:24 <zseri> @massages-loud
23:20:24 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
23:21:24 <boily> dosthelloswork, Relloger9, zsellori. lambdabot doesn't massage hth
23:23:26 <zseri> I parallelized some namespace copy work in the XTW interpreter.
23:49:08 <zzo38> Have you looked at my new esolang yet?
23:53:57 <zseri> which one?
23:54:23 <zzo38> It is titled "Crement" (ais523 gave it this name, because I didn't have a name for it at first)
23:55:44 <zseri> yes
23:59:21 <zseri> It would be interesting to have a instruction which allows to copy a previous instruction (given by address field) after the last command
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