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03:48:15 <esowiki> [[Thue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55414&oldid=55391 * Oerjan * (+103) Change back to the more descriptive original, except keeping the link and changing restricted -> generalized
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05:55:16 <oerjan> . o O ( is lady Ariadne in any relation to Boris? )
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08:04:57 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CharCoding * New user account
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08:12:16 <CharCoding> I registered an account on the wiki but I don't understand the introduction page. How do I sign my username?
08:13:58 <CharCoding> 0_o nevermind, figured it out using preview
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08:14:31 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55415&oldid=55404 * CharCoding * (+173)
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08:46:33 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55416&oldid=55415 * Fizzie * (+133) Clarify instructions
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10:49:02 <HackEso> The password of the month is <redacted>.
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17:11:14 <Vorpal> arseniiv: ping I have a new esolang idea (not a full language yet)
17:11:35 <Vorpal> bit pattern overlapped automatons
17:13:33 <Vorpal> every cell is an n-bit integer (32 maybe?) and then every bit (or group of bits) runs separately on it's own rule set. For example, bit 0 could be Game of Life, bit 1-2 some 4-state automaton and so on (note, not going to actually use GoL, since it is TC). The rulesets runs mostly separately, but will under certain circumstances interact with each other
17:14:02 <Vorpal> the goal is for you to have to use these overlap mechanics as well as doing computation locally in each "layer" for the end result to be TC
17:14:44 <Vorpal> I haven't really done much with cell automatons, so I don't think I could actually pull this off though
17:15:21 <arseniiv> hm I haven’t too, but maybe I’ll at least have some ideas
17:15:22 <Vorpal> but at least now the idea is out there, for anyone to grab and run with
17:17:53 <Vorpal> arseniiv: another language idea is a nethack or Dwarf Fortress like "game world" where you make a map and place actors (which distinct but simple and deterministic AI). This is used for computation.
17:19:10 <Vorpal> maybe they elephant could always charge in a straight line until it hits a wall or gate (and will continue running again if the gate is opened). While the treasure hunter will always seek out the nearest gold and run from any boulder traps
17:19:32 <Vorpal> there should be leavers for actors to pull and ways to link those to gates
17:20:03 <Vorpal> again, not yet a fully formed language, but this one I'm more optimistic about
17:20:19 <arseniiv> also about ideas: I have imagined if it could be possible in a cell automaton to modify the underlying graph (locally) — e. g. add or remove vertices (and corresponding edges)
17:20:36 <arseniiv> no concrete ideas here, though
17:20:51 <Vorpal> arseniiv: just non-flatness or stuff like wormholes?
17:21:14 <Vorpal> hm, cell automaton on a hyperbolic geometry?
17:22:39 <Slereah> Non-flatness doesn't change the edges of a lattice
17:22:42 <arseniiv> where you make a map and place actors (which distinct but simple and deterministic AI) => oh yes, I have thought about that after seeing Perpetuum Mobile. I even have a friend who played nethack many times, I’m going to suggest this to him
17:22:51 <Slereah> or distances, equivalently
17:23:04 <Slereah> the edges are the simplicial topology
17:23:28 <Vorpal> arseniiv: hey don't steal it ;P (I'm probably going to make my own even if you make one)
17:24:15 <arseniiv> just non-flatness or stuff like wormholes? => wormholes would be super neat, but again no idea how to pull that off without sacrificing locality
17:24:18 <Vorpal> Slereah: you could imagine cutting and gluing a cell automaton to create wormholes though
17:24:43 <Vorpal> arseniiv: it has locality, but the definition of "local" is complicated
17:24:58 <Vorpal> the locality must travel through the wormhole
17:25:05 <arseniiv> hm, cell automaton on a hyperbolic geometry? => if this wasn’t suggested by anyone yet, yeah, this is yet another deserving idea
17:25:27 <Vorpal> arseniiv: as Slereah pointed out, not that interesting with a lattice
17:25:43 <arseniiv> Vorpal: I mean, we should be able to create a wormhole locally
17:25:47 <Slereah> Well I mean, it depends how your automaton works
17:25:57 <Slereah> If the distance between vertices is important to the rules
17:26:09 <Slereah> otherwise, it's the same as a normal grid
17:26:43 <Vorpal> I haven't seen an automaton which use distance (as opposed to "neighbor"), but maybe you can make it work
17:27:59 <Vorpal> many years ago I implemented GoL in the scripting language of a module-based RPG called "Blades of Avernum". Don't think I have the files around any more. It basically changed the floor tiles to the next generation each time you pulled a lever
17:28:18 <arseniiv> hey don't steal it ;P (I'm probably going to make my own even if you make one) => I was actually about “redirect-stealing” it, but that person isn’t much into esolangs. I have a frend into them too, but he does’t play nethack (nor do I), so probably no luck with stealing here :D
17:28:42 <Vorpal> it has been years since I played nethack
17:28:54 <Vorpal> DF I played more recently
17:29:13 <Vorpal> oh yeah! the output of the program should be DF style combat logs
17:29:58 <Vorpal> arseniiv: ever played or seen DF?
17:32:07 <Vorpal> hm, I want to be able to put multiple things on the same square, so the language definition might be a bit annoying without a specialized editor.
17:32:20 <Vorpal> oh I know, why not use an image file, pixels
17:32:41 <Vorpal> I seen people use that for storing the levels in some games
17:33:15 <Vorpal> Then you have one colour for walls, and the other two colours for defining metadata
17:33:28 <arseniiv> If the distance between vertices is important to the rules then it will be different => hm I think despite distances aren’t mentioned in common automatons’ rules, they are in some sense present. Any (undirected; weighted or non-weighted—in the latter cases, it is weighted const 1) graph has a natural metric. It will be different for different regular grids
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17:34:06 <arseniiv> arseniiv: ever played or seen DF? => heard about a bit, only
17:34:14 <Vorpal> that or using ASCII for the level (program) layout + a separate listing (perhaps in yaml or json) below to place actors, connect levers and so on
17:34:36 <Vorpal> arseniiv: amazing game with a utterly steep learning curve
17:36:20 <Vorpal> arseniiv: here is an example of a combat log I found: https://i.imgur.com/DdJBN.jpg by googling. As usual very detailed and probably more gruesome than actually showing the combat would have been
17:38:53 <arseniiv> oh I know, why not use an image file, pixels => or a specialized IDE level editor :D a program could consist of several levels
17:39:17 <Vorpal> yes, it could, but I don't want to develop that
17:39:26 <arseniiv> instead of calling procedures, one could enter and exit levels
17:39:39 <Vorpal> though I seem to remember an off-the-shelf open source level editor thing for 2D games
17:40:24 <arseniiv> amazing game with a utterly steep learning curve => steeper than nethack? because I played the latter two times (and almost instantly died) and wasn’t satisfied
17:40:34 <Vorpal> hah, https://www.mapeditor.org/
17:40:38 <Vorpal> is what I was thinking of
17:40:51 <Vorpal> arseniiv: probably on par
17:40:51 <arseniiv> though I seem to remember an off-the-shelf open source level editor thing for 2D games => indeed
17:41:23 <Vorpal> I think it is that one at least
17:41:25 <arseniiv> probably on par => oh then thank you I’ll abstain :D
17:41:50 <Phantom_Hoover> DF has a much steeper learning curve than nethack in the sense that you have to learn most of the game's mechanics and strategies for dealing with them right at the start to make any serious headway
17:42:07 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover: but loosing is fun
17:42:30 <Vorpal> arseniiv: the thing about DF though is when things go sour, they usually do so in a pretty funny way
17:43:03 <Vorpal> arseniiv: a DF like game that is more approachable is Rimworld (costs money on steam)
17:43:27 <Vorpal> haven't played it, but watched a few streams on twitch and it looks good
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17:45:50 <arseniiv> Vorpal: I don’t think I’m going to play roguelikes in near future, but nonetheless thanks :)
17:47:49 <Vorpal> arseniiv: DF is not a rouge lite
17:48:51 <Vorpal> I guess you could say they are fortress/colony builders/sims
17:57:28 <Slereah> you could probably make a simple enough particle automaton in curved spacetime
17:59:32 <Vorpal> not even a clue what that is
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18:30:29 <plokmijnuhby> if your tetrahedra meet at weird angles, you've got some gravity going on
18:35:24 <Vorpal> plokmijnuhby: wait a minute, I'm confused about the causality, are you the alias of someone else in here? Or did you read the logs?
18:36:57 <Vorpal> plokmijnuhby: also, how do you pronounce that name?
18:39:32 <plokmijnuhby> I read the logs and thought I'd add my two cents
18:40:51 <Vorpal> okay, I don't quite get the d in midge from that spelling, but the rest seems sensible enough
18:41:21 <arseniiv> the problem (not a real one, but considering this context) of General Relativity is that it’s in general hard/impossible to calculate spatial section by spatial section. You can test if the complete space-time solution is correct or not, but as to construct it slice by slice…
18:42:19 <HackEso> plokmijnuhby: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
18:43:01 <arseniiv> this isn’t relevant if the region in question is “sufficiently newtonian”, as if taking a star system or a galaxy, but if one wants to consider wormholes, it suddenly is much more complicated
18:43:07 <Vorpal> okay I am inventing some new mechanics for the RPG language finally
18:43:39 <Vorpal> also I invented a separate esolang based solely on water flow I think, could almost be fleshed out into a separate language
18:43:56 <arseniiv> plokmijnuhby: please forgive me but what language it is?
18:44:22 <Vorpal> plokmijnuhby: I'm not 100% convinced by your brainfuck in Perpetuum Mobile by the way, I understand you are talking about compiling BF to PM rather than interpreting BF in PM, right?
18:44:25 <arseniiv> Vorpal: wow you are productive :D
18:44:57 <Vorpal> arseniiv: well, I needed water for the elephants to walk to and drink from, and then I started adding sluice gates and riverbeds
18:45:09 <arseniiv> do you have a qwerty keyboard?> got it
18:45:19 <shachaf> I have a programming language idea which might be eso or might not, I'm not sure yet.
18:45:49 <shachaf> It's something between C++ and a macro assembler and a lisp dialect. Or something.
18:45:54 <shachaf> I need to figure out the details still.
18:47:12 <Vorpal> arseniiv: you could make a simplified wormhole thingy, like if too many cells of a certain colour accumulates in a compact enough area, you create a square wormhole connected to some other part of the world with some other colour white hole
18:47:15 <Vorpal> or something like that
18:47:37 <Vorpal> doesn't have to behave like real general relativity to make an interesting language concept
18:47:49 <Vorpal> shachaf: sounds interesting
18:48:07 <Vorpal> olsner: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Perpetuum_Mobile made this esolang
18:49:52 <arseniiv> oh also is there an eso solely about sets? Some time ago I had one more or less completely described, it operated on hereditary finite sets and had a C-like syntax; its main feature, I think, was `select` statement; `select x in s` took an element of s and assigned it to x, then x was removed from s; it was an error if s = ∅ before all that. Now I see this construct should have been a form of pattern matching: `switch s case 0 blah blah case {x} ∪ s
18:50:22 <arseniiv> well, I needed water for the elephants to walk to and drink from, and then I started adding sluice gates and riverbeds => (rofl) :D
18:55:12 <Vorpal> arseniiv: sneak preview: https://gist.github.com/VorpalBlade/131d4062c60952eecfb5368b10a4169a
18:55:20 <Vorpal> that is the sort of thing I'm going for
18:55:26 <Vorpal> not sure what else to put in it yet
18:55:32 <Vorpal> some things I know though
18:57:37 <Vorpal> plokmijnuhby: yes, good idea, and there should be treasure hunters as well as rolling boulder traps
18:57:46 <Vorpal> will probably have goblins and such too
18:59:47 <Vorpal> ah, lepruchan with leaking gold bag
19:00:05 <Vorpal> leprechaun is apparently how that is spelled
19:00:26 <Vorpal> could also have static gold, which should actually be what ¤ is used for (since that is the generic currency symbol)
19:00:35 <Vorpal> sluice gate will have to be something else
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19:11:20 <arseniiv> Vorpal: thank you! Will look in detail tomorrow, now I’m off to sleep
19:12:23 <Vorpal> arseniiv: obviously a reference
19:12:30 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
19:12:38 <zemhill__> Vorpal: I do !zjoust; see http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for more information.
19:12:44 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
19:12:54 <Vorpal> plokmijnuhby: pick your poison
19:12:59 <Vorpal> fungot: which one do you prefer?
19:12:59 <fungot> Vorpal: uh sometimes they can be the more convenient because my kids like i said i
19:13:02 <arseniiv> what reference? Is it more specific than boulder traps in games?
19:13:10 <Vorpal> arseniiv: Indiana Jones duh
19:15:39 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
19:15:51 <lambdabot> activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search
19:15:51 <lambdabot> slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
19:16:10 <int-e> plokmijnuhby: before you continue... lambdabot reacts to private messages.
19:16:12 <arseniiv> also it have occurred to me just now I have played Wanderer on android (so that port of it was named Wandroid); I was able to finish level 1 but it was tricky, partly because of controls (sweeping was somewhat faulty, the character ofter walked in the wrong direction)
19:17:15 <Vorpal> not familiar with that game
19:19:06 <arseniiv> there, you’re walking in 2D and there are various things moving deterministically, but you can move out of sync with them (it seems). I didn’t seen the original
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19:19:28 <Vorpal> so I added some more ideas
19:19:30 <arseniiv> there was boulders, specifically
19:20:48 <arseniiv> and also there wasn’t save for that second level I opened, so I deleted the app in a virtual rage
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19:55:23 <Vorpal> I'm also going to sleep
20:05:05 <Vorpal> but yeah I need to sleep now
20:10:40 <int-e> chat.freenode.net rotation, I'd guess
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20:27:27 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55417&oldid=55384 * Digital Hunter * (+13)
20:29:38 <esowiki> [[User talk:DatCodingGuy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55418&oldid=49174 * Digital Hunter * (+170) /* Your Github page says you're 19 */ new section
20:37:31 <int-e> ... why does that edit annoy me.
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21:23:04 <wob_jonas> fizzie: thank you for pointing me at scribus (software). it does seem like it will probably be able to do what I need.
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22:40:33 <fungot> alexandre: ( ( laughter uh-huh)) amazing you know it's just it's it's hard because i mean
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22:40:57 <boily> fungot: renostril.
22:40:57 <fungot> boily: while they're playing games but i'm sure with these things it's a great feeling to feel like i'm the only nut in the family i don't want
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