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02:40:23 <esowiki> [[TPPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55581&oldid=55562 * Saka * (+140) /* Instructions */SPIN
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04:16:13 <imode> I'm having a crisis.
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04:51:35 <imode> so I've been going through some automata theory recently, trying to soak up all I can from a bunch of resources, and looking into odd automata.
04:51:51 <imode> 2-stack PDAs, queue automata, storage modification machines, the works.
04:52:36 <imode> something I've been frustrated at is that nobody seems to be doing anything "practical" with these machines outside of simulating a TM tape.
04:53:20 <imode> so for something like a queue automata, I don't know what an addition algorithm for two binary numbers looks like using purely the queue, but I know what the translated-from-a-TM version looks like with a marker to mark the end of the tape.
04:54:45 <imode> why in the world did you bother then? sure, you showed that these models are TC, but is the end goal of using these models to just simulate a TM tape, plop down the equivalent transitions and call it a day?
04:55:50 <imode> are turing machines really the simplest universal automata that can be devised? every other model just seems to target them!
04:56:01 <imode> apart from register machines and counter machines and such.
04:56:23 <imode> just seems like if you go any lower you hit a point where you have to abstract upwards to a TM and its tape.
04:57:51 <imode> I guess you could argue there are varying forms of complexity (in terms of step counts and such for simple operations) but if you're abstracting upwards you're always going to be slower than a TM!
05:05:29 <esowiki> [[TPPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55582&oldid=55581 * Saka * (+12) bold
05:05:40 <imode> I just really wonder if there's a point of finding smaller and smaller models of computation if we're just going to do all of our work by simulating a TM.
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05:33:26 <esowiki> [[Between]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55583 * Saka * (+2430) New
05:33:53 <esowiki> [[User:Saka]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55584&oldid=55568 * Saka * (+14)
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09:25:11 <esowiki> [[Talk:Between]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55585 * Plokmijnuhby * (+246) Created page with "Your truth machine suggests i inputs an integer. Is this correct, and if so is there any way to change it to string? Also is there any way to take the nth character of a strin..."
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09:27:12 <esowiki> [[Talk:Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55586&oldid=55585 * Plokmijnuhby * (+91)
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11:39:46 <esowiki> [[Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55587&oldid=55583 * Saka * (+4) /* Truth Machine */ fix
11:40:35 <esowiki> [[Talk:Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55588&oldid=55586 * Saka * (+235)
11:44:35 <esowiki> [[Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55589&oldid=55587 * Saka * (+120) /* Operations */ C
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11:49:42 <esowiki> [[Talk:TPPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55590&oldid=55521 * Saka * (+141)
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13:09:52 <esowiki> [[Talk:Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55591&oldid=55588 * Plokmijnuhby * (+448)
13:22:44 <esowiki> [[Talk:Between]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55592&oldid=55591 * Saka * (+170)
13:51:04 <esowiki> [[Talk:Between]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55593&oldid=55592 * Saka * (+69) forgot sig
13:52:24 <esowiki> [[TPPL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55594&oldid=55582 * Saka * (+127) /* Instructions */ COPY
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15:07:21 <Vorpal> <arseniiv> Vorpal: hm I even boldly suggest CADD have 5 arguments, #−1, #0, #1, #2, #3, all #−1..#1 should be nonzero to make addition <-- huh?
15:08:35 <Vorpal> <arseniiv> oh, we couldn’t switch on/off _any_ code, could you add another argument to CADD, so that it will be <-- hm, can't you switch off a variable currently? Setting it to zero?
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15:10:41 <Vorpal> @tell arseniiv okay will look at that tomorrow, busy this evening. But CHLT shouldn't be needed, You could define halting as when no instruction was executed during the last iteration. At that point it is obvious nothing more can happen
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15:49:29 <arseniiv> hm, can't you switch off a variable currently? Setting it to zero?> can and do in gist linked, but it’s not enough (I suppose)
15:53:10 <arseniiv> t could be it’s just my faulty implementation idea, but I couldn’t think of something else
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17:49:44 <int-e> . o O ( The next 500 markup languages. )
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19:00:32 <Vorpal> arseniiv: fair enough, okay
19:00:40 <Vorpal> will have to look in it further tomorrow
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