00:15:53 <oerjan> i don't remember if i've mentioned it before, but solving tatham's Loopy puzzle by only deleting lines (except for the final check) makes it a bit more challenging
00:17:25 <oerjan> some of the geometries make this more or less difficult
00:23:17 <oerjan> although it makes the final check a bit of boring clicking
00:24:15 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55869&oldid=55813 * Asangi a4ac * (+140) /* Introductions */
00:24:27 <esowiki> [[Hexsp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55870 * Asangi a4ac * (+2314) Created page with "'''Hexsp''' is a programming language made by Otakuto. It is basically Lisp written in Hexspeak. Every code is written in hexadecimal numbers and it is supposed to resemble ma..."
01:02:52 <esowiki> [[Hexsp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55871&oldid=55870 * Asangi a4ac * (+111)
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01:04:00 <esowiki> [[Hexsp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55872&oldid=55871 * Asangi a4ac * (+18) /* Sample Code */
01:04:39 <boily> fungot: have you seen quintopia?
01:04:39 <fungot> boily: i an- they were all democrats rely on ignorance of it you just even if you sit in the restaurant we were at the beginning
01:04:54 <boily> fungot: in a restaurant? which one?
01:04:55 <fungot> boily: but i do merchandising and mystery shopping
01:05:06 <boily> fungot: a mysterious shopping restaurant?????
01:05:06 <fungot> boily: um that type of thing that's what i need and i love to
01:05:37 <oerjan> . o O ( the restaurant that wasn't there yesterday )
01:07:16 <esowiki> [[Hexsp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55873&oldid=55872 * Asangi a4ac * (+209)
01:08:56 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55874&oldid=55855 * Asangi a4ac * (+12) /* H */
01:09:58 <boily> . o O ( yesterday, I ate a restaurant that wasn't there. it wasn't there again today... )
01:12:14 <oerjan> so that's what happened to the CIA's restaurant, you fiend!
01:17:38 <oerjan> the one which rhymes with "today" hth
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05:59:43 <zzo38> Do you know what is the computation class of the Free Hero Mesh preprocessor? (ignoring hash table limits and memory limits)
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06:12:01 <esowiki> [[Your Pong May Minsky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55875&oldid=55868 * Zzo38 * (+40) Add category
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10:30:32 <esowiki> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55876 * Iamcalledbob * (+7785) Created page with "'''Chicken''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] by Torbjrn Sderstedt, in which "chicken" is the only valid symbol. ==Language overview== A chicken program consists..."
10:35:02 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55877&oldid=55876 * Iamcalledbob * (-6515)
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12:31:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:Your Pong May Minsky]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55878 * Ais523 * (+1901) /* Continuous waterfalls */ new section
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13:35:09 <ais523> is the integral of an analytic function necessarily analytic? (I love that this is potentially relevant for an esolang I'm making…)
13:35:44 <HackEso> 1280) <oerjan> i don't approve of nuclear-free zones; without nuclei we'd not exist hth
13:35:47 <HackEso> 1196) <fizzie> I am in room number 404. <fizzie> I keep not finding it and walking past the door.
13:35:50 <HackEso> 711) <Edwin Brady> Just seen this comment on reddit: "Parallel programming has been a solved problem for decades." I might have to stop reading the internet.
13:35:53 <HackEso> 866) <GreyKnight> Taneb: The other day on the channel I came up with BRAINLISPCODE, a LOLCODE-style LISP with an embedded bf derivative. I thought you should know. :-I
13:35:57 <HackEso> 745) <pikhq> The world would be a much classier place if the world was full of Gregors. <Phantom_Hoover> True, but how many of them are on fire?
13:37:08 <ais523> err, indefinite integral
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13:53:14 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zackmowrer * New user account
14:09:04 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55879&oldid=55869 * Zackmowrer * (+276) /* Introductions */
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14:38:29 <HackEso> 1/2:1267) <shachaf> pikhq: The Google way isn't exactly NIH. They have their own variant of it. \ 972) <kmc> ok im sober now and DNS makes sense again [...] <kmc> Domain Name System [...] <kmc> ♫ domain name system ♫ \ 151) <fizzie> I don't trust ducks. They always look like they're planning something. I'm not sure it's a good idea to give them language capabilities. \ 192) [CTCP] Received CTCP-ERRMSG reply from clog: unknown CTCP: ERRMSG. \ 97) <fungo
14:38:32 <HackEso> 2/2:t> [...] i'm a law student so i am loving my bread machine
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15:21:30 <esowiki> [[Talk:Your Pong May Minsky]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55880&oldid=55878 * Ais523 * (+220) a correction in the proof
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15:55:45 <oerjan> <ais523> is the integral of an analytic function necessarily analytic? <-- yes
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15:56:17 <ais523> I'm surprised that isn't mentioned anywhere on the relevant Wikipedia page (or at least if it is, I can't find it)
15:56:21 <oerjan> same radius of convergence on the power series iirc
15:56:23 <ais523> but the Taylor series definition made it seem likely
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19:11:10 <esowiki> [[R U DS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=55881 * Zackmowrer * (+1815) Created page with "'''R U DS''' is an simple, [[:Category:Output only|output-only]] [[esoteric programming language]] [[Category:Languages]] created by Zackery Mowrer in [[:Category:2018|2018]]...."
19:22:30 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55882&oldid=55874 * Zackmowrer * (+13) /* R */
19:27:50 <imode-desktop> ais523: for counter machines with a limited number of counters (let's call it 4 or 5), how would you represent sequential strings? godel numbering?
19:28:21 <ais523> imode-desktop: most likely as digits of a number
19:28:31 <ais523> e.g. you interpret the string in base 256
19:28:35 <ais523> if it's a string of octets
19:28:40 <ais523> or base 10 if it's a string of digits, etc.
19:28:47 <ais523> that's an easy form to work with in counter machines because divmod tends to be easy
19:29:43 <imode-desktop> alright. how about instructions? do counter machines always have atomic instructions or are equivalent transition tables available for counter machines?
19:31:45 <imode-desktop> i.e for every transition in a TM, I'm doing multiple operations in a single step, whereas for something like register machines I do larger operations incrementally by combining several atomic instructions.
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19:33:18 <imode-desktop> I guess you could have a kind of state transition table and simply list out whether each counter is incremented or decremented, and build things like multi-register NOPs off of that.
19:34:28 <imode-desktop> it could be as simple as a boolean flag. 1 if you're incrementing, 0 if you're decrementing.
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19:36:27 <int-e> imode-desktop: I think it's natural to build a test for zero into the decrement operation, in which case it's not perfectly symmetric with the increment.
19:51:31 <imode-desktop> int-e: good point. it'd still work though. if you wanted to increment _just one register_ (let's say you had 3), you could specify a state where you increment all of them, then decrement all but the one you want preserved.
19:52:29 <imode-desktop> control flow could be specified by a bitmask of the registers you wanted to check.
19:53:13 <int-e> that's so ... unmathematical
19:53:13 <imode-desktop> so the notation for 3 registers would be `State:Reg1Zero,Reg2Zero,Reg3Zero:Reg1,Reg2,Reg3`
19:56:27 <ais523> counter machines tend to vary a lot on how control flow works
19:56:58 <ais523> having it as a side effect of decrement is common, though, as that's the only time you have useful information to check
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20:03:05 <imode-desktop> int-e: I'm actually genuinely curious, what part of that is unmathematical? vs. practically any other abstract machine formulation that's been presented since turing's paper.
20:03:36 <int-e> imode-desktop: "bitmask" :P
20:04:18 <int-e> (these binary operations are not very natural, if you can forgive the pun)
20:05:04 <imode-desktop> it's not really a bitmask, you use 0 to determine if you're decrementing and 1 to determine if you're incrementing, so "Increment register 1 and decrement registers 2 and 3" looks like 100. :P
20:05:55 <imode-desktop> "If you're in state 2, and registers 2 and 3 are zero, increment register 1, decrement registers 2 and 3, and go to state 3."
20:06:32 <int-e> There's no accounting for taste. :P
20:18:11 <HackEso> This is something people on the channel like to talk about. We're often unsure what this is, though.
20:18:35 <HackEso> This page intonationally left blank.
20:19:00 <shachaf> `learn This page is under construction.
20:19:02 <HackEso> Learned 'thi': This page is under construction.
20:19:12 <shachaf> `le//rn this page//This page is under construction.
20:19:14 <HackEso> Relearned 'this page': This page is under construction.
20:25:38 <imode-desktop> int-e: re-reading what you said keeps piquing my interest: what defines a natural operation? sans the pun.
20:28:25 <int-e> imode-desktop: Hmm, without the pun, it's really a matter of conventions (what does everybody else do?), elegance (is this needlessly complicated), and taste (uh the bit that cannot be defined but that one still forms strong opinions about).
20:29:14 <imode-desktop> the second is something that I'm concerned about, first maybe, third not so much. :P
20:29:44 <int-e> So, there's no hard definition. (Note that there are interdependencies... elegance implicitly refers to conventions.
20:30:55 <imode-desktop> I'd be hard-pressed to prove that implicit dependance. conventions are useful as a starting point imho but treating them as an upper limit gives you a sense of tunnel vision.
20:31:47 <imode-desktop> if we define "elegance" as the negation of needless complication, then there's a lot of old models that follow needless complication.
20:32:30 <int-e> What I mean is that expressing things in terms of established notions, even somewhat clumsily, is usually preferred to developing a new language just to make a single definition elegant. Of course if that language extends to other definitions... well then you may be on the way to a new mathematical theory.
20:33:55 <imode-desktop> with a funny mention, term rewriting. not only do you have to maintain a list of bound variables + storage for all of the bound term trees for those variables, you have to go through the process of pattern matching on terms, which isn't that hard, but something I'd hardly call natural from my perspective.
20:35:11 <imode-desktop> that imho is needlessly complicated. deceptively simple because it relies on the ability to keep state in your head relatively easily and relies on yor pattern matching ability, but deviates from what can be done strictly mechanically.
20:38:04 <imode-desktop> then again, that's just my perspective. I don't like anything that can't be done strictly mechanically in a trivial way unless it can be _reduced_. mainly because the more allowances you give, the more we're just talking in some abstract notation for algorithms, and my train of thought falls apart.
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20:48:40 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=55883&oldid=55576 * BoutonIA * (+22) Add Category:Languages
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23:54:12 * oerjan is using webchat, nvg seems to be having network problems
23:55:00 <shachaf> I keep thinking that means Taneb.
23:55:41 <HackEso> nvd is what Taneb calls himself when he wants to feel professional.
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23:58:32 <oerjan> `learn NVG is a student computer club in Trondheim, whose servers are frequently infiltrated by oerjan. Not to be confused with nvd.
23:58:34 <HackEso> Learned 'nvg': NVG is a student computer club in Trondheim, whose servers are frequently infiltrated by oerjan. Not to be confused with nvd.