←2018-10-07 2018-10-08 2018-10-09→ ↑2018 ↑all
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01:08:37 <zzo38> I read now Microsoft open-sourced MS-DOS version 1 and 2. What I would like to see is open-sourced ROM BASIC and PC BIOS code. (While PC BIOS code is available, I have not seen an official open-source licensing of it.)
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04:52:44 <zzo38> A variant of the "Immobilizer" piece from Ultima is the "Vestal Virgin" from Emperor Wars. The movement is the same, but it only prevents capturing moves, and does not prevent non-capturing moves.
04:59:47 <zzo38> Is there implementation of Haskell in JavaScript that does not have its own I/O and can combine with your own JavaScript codes for I/O and other functions?
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06:05:45 <oerjan> doesthiswork: sounds like you'll soon have a fly army then.
06:08:04 <oerjan> "Black soldier fly larvae (BSFL) are an excellent source of sustainable protein for aquaculture, animal feed, and pet and human nutrition.[citation needed]"
06:09:14 <oerjan> . o O ( wait is he raising them _as_ pets or _for_ his pets? )
06:09:22 <zzo38> Or both?
06:09:50 <oerjan> i don't think it's usually considered good to feed your pets to each other
06:10:46 <oerjan> i'm going to go out on a limb and assume he's not eating them himself.
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06:18:48 <zzo38> Yes, I suppose it would be unusual to do both
06:33:01 <doesthiswork> I'm raising them to eat food waste, which they do a wonderful job of
06:36:11 <zzo38> OK
06:36:25 <zzo38> I suppose that is better than wasting it.
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06:47:23 <esowiki> [[User:Salpynx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57987&oldid=57959 * Salpynx * (+95) /* Working on */
06:56:06 <esowiki> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57988&oldid=46778 * Salpynx * (+140) add link to my wip compiler that compiles hello-world example
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09:47:55 <wob_jonas> zzo38: it's not open source, but I have ROM BIOS listing for IBM PC XT or something similar, and I think it's on the internet too
09:49:15 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I think it's actually the original PC before the XT. the manual contained assembly listings for the ROM BIOS and (hard disk ROM BIOS extension), including the keyboard handling code, plus lots of other useful docs like schematics and BIOS API docs
09:49:44 <wob_jonas> zzo38: but not any BASIC. if you can't find it on the internet, ping me and I'll try to look it up, or, failing that, get my printed book and scan the parts you're interested in
09:50:34 <wob_jonas> doesthiswork: but don't flies leave a lot of mess after themselves, including human disease sources?
09:51:04 <wob_jonas> unlike ants, which are clean, but can be a bad idea to raise in the house because they can make holes in the plastering of walls or worse
10:02:45 <esowiki> [[User:Salpynx]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57989&oldid=57987 * Salpynx * (+107) /* Interested in */
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14:44:53 <wob_jonas> @tell doesthiswork but don't flies leave a lot of mess after themselves, including human disease sources? unlike ants, which are clean, but can be a bad idea to raise in the house because they can make holes in the plastering of walls or worse.
14:44:53 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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16:29:35 <wob_jonas> When the 7-zip UI is testing an archive, the dialog has a "Cancel" button to cancel the test, since it can take a long time for a large archive. When I click on that button, I get a dialog asking "Are you sure you want to cancel?" and three buttons: Yes, No, Cancel.
16:29:41 <wob_jonas> Why are there three buttons?
16:47:42 <esowiki> [[ESOPUNK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57990&oldid=57622 * Blacksilver * (+216) Examples
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17:33:21 <esowiki> [[ESOPUNK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=57991&oldid=57990 * Blacksilver * (+321) /* Computational Class */
17:35:51 <zzo38> I don't know; I don't use the 7-Zip GUI
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18:34:17 <wob_jonas> Yes, finally! Laundry buffer underflow! As in, I could wash laundry now because the washing machine and the clothes rack is free and I have the time to start one, but there's not enough dirty clothes to be worth.
18:35:02 <wob_jonas> Unless I replace the bed linen or wash the curtains, but I'm too lazy to do either. (Washing the curtains is easy, it's putting them up again that's the hard part, and you have to do that immediately after the washing machine is done.
18:35:04 <wob_jonas> )
18:39:48 <wob_jonas> `olist 1143
18:39:49 <HackEso> olist 1143: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
18:58:34 <zzo38> I have a book with the PC BIOS code in it (for the original IBM PC, I think).
19:00:57 <wob_jonas> zzo38: so you're only missing the casette BASIC BIOS?
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19:01:19 <wob_jonas> I know it's obvious, but have you searched the internet for it?
19:01:51 <wob_jonas> The casette BASIC faded into obscurity because of MS-DOS and MS's BASIC implementation GW-BASIC.
19:02:01 <wob_jonas> (Which runs on DOS and is really small.)
19:02:10 <wob_jonas> I guess you know that.
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19:05:05 <zzo38> Yes, I know that.
19:06:34 <wob_jonas> Also every PC came with an 1.2" floppy drive for a long time AFAIK, and casettes are just really unreliable compared to cheap floppies, so the whole idea of a BASIC that stores its data on a casette instead of a floppy on a PC seems absurd to me, while it made sense back in the older personal computers like the C-64.
19:07:12 <wob_jonas> I don't understand why the PC BASIC worked with a casette in first place rather than a floppy, whether it's over PC-DOS or separate and with a possibly different floppy format.
19:07:48 <wob_jonas> I can understand that they made a casette controller for the PC, so people can potentially read and write casettes and communicate with other machines that way.
19:08:02 <wob_jonas> But the PC also had a floppy drive.
19:09:49 <zzo38> I think the book I have says it supports four floppy drives, although only two can physically fit inside the computer.
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19:11:55 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, the BIOS routines support four floppy drives, even on later PCs, but since DOS only supports two floppy drives without extra software, and people generally got hard disks by the time 1.4" floppy drives appeared, I'd guess very few people had a PC with more than two floppies.
19:12:49 <int-e> wob_jonas: 1.2"?!
19:13:31 <wob_jonas> int-e: no, um... what are the floppy sizes again?
19:13:42 <int-e> 5 1/4", 1.2MB
19:14:00 <int-e> well, 180k, 360k, 720k, 1.2MB
19:14:06 <wob_jonas> 5+1/4 inch with formatted capacity 1.2MB, and 3+1/2 inch with DOS formatted capacity 1.44 MB but total capacity 2MB
19:14:32 <int-e> and 3 1/2", 1.44MB, not sure about smaller sizes.
19:15:57 <wob_jonas> int-e: yeah, that's why the one that's half the size of the 1.44 MB floppy is called "double-sided-double density" or something like that, but I've only seen the floppy formats other than the two largest for the 3+1/2" drive and the biggest double-sided and single-sided for the 5+1/4" drive only in theory, never a real floppy.
19:16:18 <int-e> IIRC 5 1/4" came in single density (40 tracks), double density (80 tracks), high density (15 sectors instead of 9 per track), and one- and two-sided.
19:17:02 <wob_jonas> every software has options to support them, since they're kind of trivial once you support the biggest floppy format, Linux even has specific devices with major and minor ID numbers and names in /dev that force the format in case the auto-detection fails, not that it ever fails
19:17:45 <wob_jonas> int-e: I don't want to look the details up now. I know I've seen at least one real 3+1/2" floppy with half the normal capacity
19:18:22 <wob_jonas> and I've also seen like two software for formatting ordinary 3+1/2" floppies in ways different from DOS to get a higher formatted capacity
19:18:41 <wob_jonas> but still make them accessible by DOS software that is
19:18:50 <int-e> anyway, the thing with cassettes is that it's very cheap to support in hardware... you hardly even need an A/D converter; some automatic level adjustment should suffice, followed by an operational amplifier. Almost everybody had a cassette recorder at the time.
19:18:58 <zzo38> I have had the auto-detection of floppy disks fail. The same disk works on an actual DOS computer though. (I am using an external device to use the floppy disk, since the computer doesn't have one built-in)
19:19:01 <wob_jonas> it's easy without that part, replacing all the DOS routines is the hard part
19:19:27 <wob_jonas> zzo38: the auto-detection failed but you could read the floppy if you specified the format? what format of floppy was it?
19:19:41 <wob_jonas> and that's on modern hardware? wow
19:20:01 <wob_jonas> I've seen floppies fail, but not in that way
19:21:48 <wob_jonas> And I have used floppies with Linux, but not much.
19:21:57 <zzo38> An ordinary 3.5" HD floppy disk in DOS format.
19:22:14 <wob_jonas> ok
19:24:09 <zzo38> Also once I used a floppy disk with a ZIP archive, that neither 7-Zip nor Info-Zip could read, although someone suggested I try bsdtar, and it was able to read it. (Only part of the file was readable, and there was a disk error after that. I later reformatted the disk and copied the file again and this time it did work with 7-Zip.)
19:25:33 <wob_jonas> wait, if there was a disk error, then why did you reformat the disk? don't those usually come from permanent physical errors so you should generally throw away such a floppy and use a new one, after reading the data, since they're so cheap?
19:26:08 <zzo38> I don't know, but reformatting the disk and rewriting the file fixed it. (I think DOS marks which sectors are bad so that it doesn't use those ones)
19:27:07 <wob_jonas> yes, DOS marks those in the FAT, in fact I think not only DOS but also that Linux tool for physical scanning of DOS floppies can do that
19:27:55 <wob_jonas> the bad sectors are marked in the FAT table itself, and FORMAT normally searches for them at format time unless you give the /Q option for quick format, plus DOS SCANDISK can search for such
19:28:06 <wob_jonas> and the same mechanism was used on old hard disks too
19:28:09 <zzo38> (I also tried copying the same file onto two disks in case one didn't work. Also, auto-detection didn't fail for the second disk, although once I specified the format both disks were readable in Linux.)
19:28:32 <wob_jonas> but after a while hard disks started to have ten layers of abstraction and handled physical errors on their on-board controller
19:28:38 <wob_jonas> so eventually that part got useless
19:29:02 <wob_jonas> I've even scanned DOS RAM disks, which emulate a hard disk, for bad sectors, which is obviously ridiculous
19:29:09 <wob_jonas> but the abstraction doesn't know that
19:31:12 <wob_jonas> bad sector marks of FAT could be useful for putting something on a FAT disk that nothing else reading the FS will touch, although there are lots of other ways to do that
19:33:05 <wob_jonas> such as putting unusual but mostly supported file system parameters to sector 1 of the fs, or just putting it in a file marked with the S attribute so that defrag software doesn't move it
19:33:45 <wob_jonas> but usually on a hard disk you just use a partition table, so you need that only on floppies
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←2018-10-07 2018-10-08 2018-10-09→ ↑2018 ↑all