00:14:58 -!- imode has joined.
00:17:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:57:54 -!- Hoolootwo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
01:02:08 -!- Hoolootwo has joined.
01:41:32 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58601&oldid=58523 * Cortex * (-68)
03:56:25 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
04:15:58 -!- arseniiv has joined.
05:10:00 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
06:21:31 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
07:03:43 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
07:56:37 -!- hexfive has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.2).
08:06:07 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
08:54:10 -!- incomprehensibly has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
08:54:52 -!- incomprehensibly has joined.
09:03:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
09:07:46 -!- oerjan has joined.
09:35:25 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
10:42:23 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58602&oldid=58429 * Gamer * (-8) /* MarioLANG */
10:44:03 <esowiki> [[Math++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58603&oldid=57716 * Gamer * (-1) /* Syntax */
10:45:01 <esowiki> [[Math++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58604&oldid=58603 * Gamer * (+1) /* Binary Operators */
10:47:14 <esowiki> [[Math++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58605&oldid=58604 * Gamer * (+1) /* Cotangent */
10:48:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
10:56:03 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58606&oldid=58602 * Gamer * (-60) /* Alight */
11:55:53 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
11:57:42 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
11:57:42 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
11:57:42 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
12:40:44 <esowiki> [[TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58607&oldid=58203 * Gamer * (+36) /* See also */
12:41:54 <esowiki> [[TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58608&oldid=58607 * Gamer * (-43) /* Truth-machine */
12:42:41 <esowiki> [[TPLHBPTBOTEW]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=58609&oldid=58608 * Gamer * (+38) /* Truth-machine */
12:59:09 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
13:07:13 -!- xkapastel has joined.
13:32:29 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.).
13:33:55 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
13:34:04 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
14:00:24 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
14:29:29 -!- sleepnap has joined.
14:45:50 -!- ais523_ has joined.
14:46:35 <ais523_> Autopsy feels like there should be some way to make it TC with three counters
14:47:02 <ais523_> (you can do it with just two if the distance jumped forwards after each instruction were changed to be much larger, but I suspect that would miss the point of the language)
14:58:04 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: quit).
15:15:45 -!- wob_jonas has joined.
15:16:46 <wob_jonas> some people really don't know how to make informative documentation. they just spew this shit with some automatic doc generation tool. "InStr([start, ]string1, string2[, compare])" bad parameter naming. let's see the description of those parameters:
15:17:09 <wob_jonas> "string1: Required. String expression being searched. / string2: Required. String expression sought."
15:17:37 <wob_jonas> The function "Returns a Variant (Long) specifying the position of the first occurrence of one string within another."
15:19:12 <wob_jonas> It does eventuall leak which argument is which a page later, but at that point it's easier to give up and just take a glance at http://www.antonis.de/qbebooks/gwbasman/ and hope that no BASIC implementation gets the arguments swapped.
15:20:23 <wob_jonas> GWBASIC manual: "To search for the first occurrence of string y$ in x$, and return the position at which the string is found. / INSTR([n,]x$,y$)" see, that's one way to be clear. "INSTR([startpos,]haystack$,needle$)" would be even better, but that may be a later invention.
15:28:34 <fizzie> wob_jonas: https://gamma.zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MGEz
15:29:01 <fizzie> Is how they wrote it for QBasic.
15:29:23 <fizzie> I think that's a disprovement. Or whatever the opposite of improvement was, mind is blank & time for a meeting. ->
16:08:15 -!- hexfive has joined.
16:59:07 -!- ilia has joined.
17:02:06 -!- ilia has left ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 26.1)").
17:29:41 -!- wob_jonas has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
17:44:21 -!- LKoen has joined.
17:57:13 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:57:54 -!- tromp has joined.
18:13:44 -!- imode has joined.
18:16:42 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:16:56 -!- tromp has joined.
18:35:20 -!- oerjan has joined.
18:38:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:39:51 <HackEso> [U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK]
18:52:24 -!- b_jonas has joined.
18:57:54 -!- Essadon has joined.
18:59:04 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:59:37 -!- tromp has joined.
18:59:40 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:59:55 -!- tromp has joined.
19:22:37 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:23:13 -!- tromp has joined.
19:29:14 -!- LKoen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:36:06 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
19:55:18 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
20:40:04 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
20:45:46 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:20:38 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:20:51 -!- tromp has joined.
21:29:55 -!- LKoen has joined.
21:34:37 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:48:19 <oren> WHO PUT NUMBERS IN MY GOEGARPHY DATA!
21:49:10 <oren> oh, nver mind, it was me
21:49:30 <shachaf> did you fix your build system and/or quit your job yet twh
21:50:12 <oren> shachaf: no, I am currently working on replacing some of it though. replacing a bunch of programs in Go, with C++
21:50:50 <oren> Only problem is I am bad at understanding what Go code does
21:51:31 <oren> and I have three other things which are higher priority than fxing the build system, one of which is adding features to the build system
21:51:56 <shachaf> what about quitting your job, though
21:52:22 <oren> shachaf: They keep raising my salary
21:52:32 <oren> shachaf: so, not yet
21:53:33 <shachaf> but if you switched jobs it'd probably go up even more
21:54:25 <HackEso> Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty evil grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
21:55:03 <shachaf> `swrjan s/render/remember/; s/connivance/convenience/
21:55:05 <HackEso> oerjan//Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty evil grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
21:56:26 <oren> shachaf: yeah but then I would have to learn a new build system
21:57:11 <shachaf> oren: just ask for a bunch more money to compensate hth
21:57:51 <b_jonas> oren: do you really have to? doesn't the build system only come with the culture, and you could still just invoke the compiler with any other build system?
22:00:58 <oren> b_jonas: I suppose. I guess my company has alot more trouble because most of what the "build system" does is crunching data and autogenerating code, not actually finding dependencies or running G++
22:01:36 <oren> in fact the part of the build system I'm working on doesn't run any compilers
22:02:05 <oren> it turns CSV source data into CSV result data
22:02:09 <b_jonas> oren: in that case, combine the two build systems. do they hate each others?
22:02:45 <b_jonas> let one call into the other and back
22:03:06 <b_jonas> with some of the steps running on a remote machine too
22:03:29 <oren> b_jonas: that already happens. the current build system does make -> shell script -> make -> perl -> make -> perl
22:04:06 <b_jonas> oren: good. is the tangly part sorely lacking documentation or anyone else other than you who understands it, for job security?
22:04:33 <int-e> oren: needs more python, rust, go, swift, and fortran
22:04:38 <oren> b_jonas: I wrote documentation but afaict noone has read any of it
22:04:47 <b_jonas> documentation doesn't really matter
22:04:59 <b_jonas> it can be a good way to protect your back
22:05:20 <oren> int-e: the shell script uses tools written in C++, Go, Haskell, and Ruby
22:05:41 <int-e> oren: oh I forgot about Ruby.
22:05:56 * int-e is living a cozy life.
22:05:59 <oren> I am working on exorcizing the languages I dont know from the system
22:06:13 <oren> or know but don't like
22:06:28 <b_jonas> make sure the stuff breaks the moment you leave, but the simply solution shall be plainly documented in the documentation, and you shall have several ignored emails you send in which you point to that documentation and explain how important it is that its steps are followed, and you ask your supervisor to forward that information to the next person managing the build system
22:06:41 <b_jonas> and put the documentation right next to the build system too so they can't claim to have lost it
22:06:46 <b_jonas> they still won't be able to find anything
22:07:51 <b_jonas> I'll have to find time to write such documentation too
22:08:10 <b_jonas> I already have a system that nobody else can use
22:08:17 <HackEso> 2018-12-06 22:08:17.098855625+00:00
22:08:39 -!- sleepnap has left.
22:08:50 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
22:09:12 <int-e> . o O ( `learn time//There's never enough time to write a good wisdom entry so this is what you get instead. )
22:10:43 <shachaf> is the part where you learn learn instead of le//rn part of what makes it not a good wisdom
22:11:48 <HackEso> `learn creates a wisdom entry and tries to guess which word is the key. Syntax (case insensitive): `learn [a|an|the] <keyword>[s][punctuation] [...]
22:11:57 <HackEso> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past. Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>
22:12:09 <shachaf> That joke is no longer applicable. :-(
22:12:48 -!- xkapastel has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity).
22:12:53 -!- LKoen has joined.
22:13:45 <shachaf> oren: so if the salary raises are what's keeping you there, is there an amount of money that would convince you to switch jobs + build systems
22:13:59 <shachaf> i bet you could get it if you were motivated hth
22:14:19 <b_jonas> ``` date -u "+%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S %z %Z %B %-e %A %G-W%V-%u"
22:14:20 <HackEso> 2018-12-06 22:14:19 +0000 UTC December 6 Thursday 2018-W49-4
22:14:32 <HackEso> #!/bin/sh \ exec date --rfc-3=n -u "$@"
22:14:50 <HackEso> 2018-12-06 22:14:50.194302513+00:00
22:15:02 <b_jonas> how do I get GNU date to print fractions of seconds with an explicit format?
22:15:29 <b_jonas> ``` date -u "+%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S.%N %z %Z %B %-e %A %G-W%V-%u"
22:15:29 <HackEso> 2018-12-06 22:15:29.719776794 +0000 UTC December 6 Thursday 2018-W49-4
22:16:13 <b_jonas> ``` f=bin/dateu; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\n''exec date -u "+%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S.%N %z %Z %B %-e %A %G-W%V-%u"'; chmod -c a+x "$f"
22:16:17 <HackEso> 2018-12-06 22:16:17.262646602 +0000 UTC December 6 Thursday 2018-W49-4
22:16:27 <b_jonas> ``` f=bin/datei; >$f echo $'#!/bin/sh\n''exec date "+%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S.%N %z %Z %B %-e %A %G-W%V-%u"'; chmod -c a+x "$f"
22:16:30 <HackEso> 2018-12-06 22:16:30.538588903 +0000 UTC December 6 Thursday 2018-W49-4
22:16:38 <oren> that reminds me, a few weeks ago I was thingking what if you had a CPU that only used floats
22:16:52 <oren> how would one use foating point numbers as adressles
22:16:54 <b_jonas> oren: yeah, those things used to exist back when integrated circuits were cheap
22:16:57 <HackEso> usage: mk[x] file//contents
22:17:15 <shachaf> oren: You could address bits! It'd be great.
22:17:26 <b_jonas> oren: also, there are high level languages with only floats (well, sort of), such as on my SHARP EL-5120 programmable calculator
22:17:34 <b_jonas> the floating point arithmetic is a bit strange too
22:17:59 <b_jonas> there is a sign are twelve decimal digits of mantissa, and two digits with sign of exponent of 10,
22:18:13 <b_jonas> only 10 digits are displayed
22:18:31 <b_jonas> so you'd think it's easy to store 12 decimal digits in a number, but it's not,
22:18:40 <b_jonas> because there's a strange quirk in the arithmetic operations:
22:19:10 <b_jonas> if you subtract two numbers and their exponent differs by 10 or 11, then the small number is treated as zero
22:19:18 <b_jonas> it won't subtract it from the last two digits
22:19:35 <b_jonas> so you don't have reliable 12 decimal digit integer arithmetic
22:19:45 <b_jonas> you could work this around, but it's not easy with such limited programming
22:19:55 <int-e> shachaf: did you know that https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/BT.html actually allows you to address bits in memory (i.e., it'?
22:19:58 <b_jonas> so I mostly just stored 8 or 10 decimal digits in a variable
22:20:08 <b_jonas> when I didn't use it as a float that is
22:20:17 <int-e> (i.e. it's meaningful to use offsets < 0 or > 64 with a 64 bit memory operand)
22:20:39 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
22:20:47 <b_jonas> it also has what appears to be an 8-bit processor, so arithmetic is slow, and transcendental operations are very slow, but ordinary control flow and copying around values is fast,
22:21:17 <b_jonas> which is what makes the substitute for the missing arrays viable, which is a loop that cycles around 8 or 10 variables by 1, and keeps track of how much it's rotated
22:21:32 <b_jonas> that is fast and uses very little program memory or labels
22:22:22 <b_jonas> there's only about 1100 bytes of program memory (every function or statement heading takes just a single byte, and every line has an overhead of only 3 bytes), and a program is limited to 20 labels
22:28:48 -!- xkapastel has joined.
22:41:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:13:14 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:14:39 <ais523> it strikes me that the "symbols" listing in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit is completely missing the mathematical point
23:15:02 <ais523> it should be describing the number of distinguishable values per memory cell (thus, the counter-based languages effectively have infinitely many symbols)
23:15:12 <ais523> but I'm not sure that that's a useful statistic for esolangs
23:15:24 <ais523> because they don't normally allow you to give arbitrary actions to arbitrary symbols
23:15:29 <ais523> (when they do, you typically have a tag system)
23:18:16 <ais523> oren: there are plenty of higher-level languages which have floats as their only numeric type
23:18:39 <ais523> normally, when you need integers, you use 32-bit integers and store them in doubles
23:30:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:30:27 -!- LKoen has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
23:31:34 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:40:22 <b_jonas> "arbitrary actions to arbitrary systems" => hmm. finitely many symbols, or infinitely many? the latter is harder.
23:41:53 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
23:42:46 -!- imode has joined.
23:44:11 <b_jonas> Today I folded up my double bed to single bed configuration. Out came a shitton of dust that doesn't get out in normal cleaning, and two M:tG cards. There are probably some more under it somewhere.
23:44:27 <b_jonas> This isn't the first time I found M:tG cards under it. I've found other lost stuff too a few times.
23:45:01 <HackEso> Taneb is not elliott, no matter whom you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, one of which is a Czech woman, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. He sometimes invents without noticing it (see: tanebventions).
23:45:08 <shachaf> I offered Taneb some Magic: The Gathering cards but he didn't take them.
23:47:39 <ais523> b_jonas: I think there are plenty of languages which (at least syntactically) allow you to assign actions to an arbitrary subset of an infinity of symbols
23:47:52 <ais523> in terms of esolangs https://esolangs.org/wiki/Echo_Tag effectively does
23:48:03 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fusion_Tag
23:48:07 <ais523> I have too many tag system variants
23:48:57 <ais523> or, well, I'm not sure it's /possible/ to have too many tag system variants
23:55:03 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
23:55:45 -!- imode has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3).
23:58:34 <b_jonas> Cloudgoat Ranger (Lorwyn, english; I have 5 total of it, 3 english and 2 simplified chinese; I like it, only two really goes in a deck but multiple white decks can fit them) and Daunting Defender (Onslaught, english; I have 4 but never use them)
23:58:40 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
23:58:41 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
23:58:41 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Changing host).
23:58:41 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.