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00:31:53 <kmc> maybe i should enter the IOCCC this year and get my mojo back
00:32:14 <HackEso> kmc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <https://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:32:22 <kmc> i feel like the bar is pretty high for an impressive IOCCC submission these days
00:32:27 <kmc> on the other hand, I am also pretty high
00:32:34 <shachaf> Did you see that one recent IOCCC winner?
00:33:04 <shachaf> https://www.ioccc.org/2018/mills/hint.html
00:33:08 <kmc> every now and then I google some random phrase (like "oh god the horping balls") and the #esoteric logs come up and it makes me smile
00:40:06 <kmc> shachaf: that is pretty impressive
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00:55:15 <shachaf> kmc: Also did you see that 256 byte demo?
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05:47:00 <orin> There are animes about people who make anime, but what if the anime they are making is the anime they are in[A
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05:50:35 <Lykaina> programming language i'm working on
05:53:08 <Lykaina> i would appreciate comments
06:42:31 <imode> looks like a virtual machine/assembly language.
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10:12:08 <HackEso> 1269) <b_jonas> (make is an esoteric language) <prooftechnique> b_jonas: Most esolangs I've seen have more comprehensive docs than make
10:41:11 <Lykaina> https://paste.ee/p/L907w is this actually esoteric, and, if not, should i rant about it elsewhere?
10:45:07 <Luciole> pretty sure it'd be on-topic enough!
10:46:00 <Luciole> is it a fantasy machine kinda thing?
10:49:27 <Taneb> Lykaina: unless I'm missing something it doesn't *seem* particularly esoteric
10:51:19 <Lykaina> even if it has it's roots in fourfuck (a brainfuck variant i made)?
10:52:59 <Lykaina> i know, it no longer resembles fourfuck at all
10:54:12 <Lykaina> tbh, i don't know where else to talk about it
10:58:32 <Luciole> do you have anybparticular goal?
10:58:43 <Taneb> It's A-OK to talk about it here but not necessarily to make a wiki article about it?
10:59:02 <Taneb> It's more on topic for the IRC than what we talk about most of the time, anyway
10:59:34 <Luciole> Taneb: that was my thought too
11:02:15 <Taneb> I may have initially misinterpreted Lykaina
11:04:51 <Taneb> Lykaina: I thought you were talking about making an article about it on the wiki
11:05:07 <shachaf> Taneb: Is it fully faithful to the IRC channel, though?
11:05:26 <Taneb> shachaf: I think we both know I'm not the best at working that sort of thing out
11:06:05 <shachaf> Hmm, that wasn't even in this channel
11:06:19 <Lykaina> GADR @0004 CIN @0000 COUT @0000 JIE +00 +00 @0004 STOP
11:08:23 <Lykaina> don't worry, i'm not gonna paste the hello world program into chat
11:12:44 <Lykaina> the code i typed here creates an infinite loop where it will forever read a char from input and then write it to output
11:14:34 <Lykaina> "JIE +00 +00 @0004" would be equal to "JUMP @0004" if I had a JUMP op
11:21:45 <Lykaina> though, if i had remembered to implement LJUMP, i could have just done: CIN @0000 COUT @0000 LJUMP x00 x00 x00 x00 STOP
11:58:09 <esowiki> [[User talk:BMO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59409&oldid=59406 * Oerjan * (+43) unsigned
11:58:44 <esowiki> [[User talk:BMO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59410&oldid=59409 * Oerjan * (+0) oops
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15:17:36 <esowiki> [[Mom please get me so me zucchini from sho p]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59414&oldid=59407 * Bigmac * (+138)
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16:56:33 <rain1> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golomb_ruler
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18:15:30 <HackEso> it//It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to coöperate. \ farbfeld//zzo38's Farbfeld utilities is a package of command-line programs (with rather strange command-line syntax) for manipulating images in a specific raw format called farbfeld. It's somewhat underdocumented. http://zzo38computer.org/fossil/farbfeld.ui/home
18:15:33 <HackEso> 721) <tswett> ais523: well, Dylan said "hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows", and then Lawlabee said "'cuz it's pretty awesome." <tswett> Except that by "it", Lawlabee was referring to something entirely different. <tswett> So when I added that quote, Lawlabee emotifrowned. \ 456) <itidus20> like i could ask how many "petals" are there on each of the "flowers" on this coffee mug i just made a drink with <itidus20> but that would be NP hard I think
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18:40:52 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover: there certainly was
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19:03:30 <kmc> what's new?
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19:10:56 <oerjan> . o O ( that's a pretty wide question )
19:11:23 <kmc> i haven't been here forever
19:11:28 <kmc> in forever*
19:11:54 <oerjan> well fizzie runs the wiki now
19:12:21 <oerjan> and i just featured the first new language in 5 years.
19:12:35 <oerjan> did we even have featured languages last you were here
19:12:46 <b_jonas> do there exist double credit cards, where two credit cards are put on the same credit-card sized physical card, and you choose from them by rotating it 180 degrees?
19:13:10 <kmc> I think so
19:13:16 <oerjan> also, ais523 and i proved brainfuck is TC with only four brackets in the whole program, that's pretty new
19:13:36 <b_jonas> two pairs of brackets, yeah
19:14:22 <oerjan> (there have been some other similar proofs not that long ago, like nesting depth of 2)
19:15:13 <oerjan> the four brackets require bignums, the nesting depth doesn't (and perhaps requires infinite tape, i don't quite remember)
19:15:56 <b_jonas> if it doesn't require bignums then it must require infinite tape I think
19:16:09 <kmc> oerjan: nice
19:16:21 <kmc> how's the construction work?
19:16:23 <oerjan> also there are a heap of new wiki users, a lot coming from PPCG on stackexchange (and most of them don't come here)
19:17:17 <b_jonas> yeah, the wiki is used as a buffer for a lot of useless nonsense cwritten now, so it's harder to find interesting pages
19:17:34 <b_jonas> best to listen here for what's mentioned
19:17:39 <oerjan> b_jonas: hm right. i just remember vaguely that i wanted a version that used bignums but finite tape, which i guess the most recent result provides
19:18:05 <oerjan> there were also some reversible brainfuck stuffs
19:18:45 <oerjan> kmc: the four bracket thing uses ais523's The Waterfall Model language and compiles it into bf
19:19:01 <int-e> wow, Trajedy is almost 2 years old.
19:19:14 <oerjan> we haven't written up the most simplified version anywhere yet, unless you read irc logs
19:19:54 <oerjan> but my PPCG post is https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/102363/how-many-pairs-of-brackets-are-sufficient-to-make-brainfuck-turing-complete/102500#102500
19:20:46 <oerjan> the non-written up thing makes away with all the fallback cells except two
19:21:01 <oerjan> and also the modulus requirements
19:21:22 <oerjan> (although we can add _new_ modulus requirements to ensure cells stay non-negative)
19:24:10 <oerjan> oh wait that's not actually PPCG.
19:24:45 <oerjan> it was a cs.SE question that came about because people in PPCG chat wondered if esolangs would be on-topic there
19:25:19 <oerjan> programming puzzles and code golf, codegolf.stackexchange.com
19:25:51 <oerjan> a lot of recent code golf related esolangs come from there
19:26:01 <oerjan> (well, that community)
19:26:51 <oerjan> they actually have a community ad for the esolang wiki
19:28:12 <b_jonas> oerjan: oh? so it was posted by PPCG on CS, as a sort of scope expanding experiment or invasion? nice
19:31:10 <oerjan> trajedy was nice too, a geometric esolang that turned out to be TC in an unexpected (or at least unexpectedly complicated) way
19:33:17 <int-e> I think that one of the things that made Trajedy great is that Jafet's interpreter could produce pretty diagrams.
19:34:05 <oerjan> the depth two nesting proof is at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_minus_-#Depth_two_nesting
19:34:20 <oerjan> (it also uses no - commands)
19:38:13 <oerjan> it came about almost as a corollary of me proving Home Row TC, that's a language that's a bit brainfuck-derivative-like but manages to hit a sweet spot of being awkward in just the right way
19:39:28 <oerjan> hm wait, that's not a very new language, although i guess we rediscovered it
19:40:01 <oerjan> oh right it was because of User:A
19:40:22 <oerjan> accidentally causing something worthwhile
19:40:48 <oerjan> (e's responsible for most of the crap pages b_jonas complains about)
19:41:39 <oerjan> in this case, e made a wrong TC proof (one of several), ais523 reverted it, and i then got to thinking about how to do a proper one.
19:43:29 <b_jonas> crap pages startes before A
19:45:13 <b_jonas> technically it depends on how many users are A's aliases
19:45:25 <b_jonas> A and Iamcalledbob are notorious because he alone has posted many
19:45:25 <oerjan> (the wat was for that misspelling)
19:45:42 <b_jonas> but there have been a lot of users creating just one or two bad pages
19:47:10 <b_jonas> and it's usually people who don't seem to know much about non-esotertic programming
19:49:16 <oerjan> i suppose. i don't actually bother to look at many pages that are edited by just one user.
19:49:30 <b_jonas> oerjan: what? not even if that one user is ais?
19:49:45 <oerjan> i said _many_, not _any_
19:49:56 <oerjan> make that "one new user"
19:50:03 <esowiki> [[Mom please get me so me zucchini from sho p]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59419&oldid=59414 * Bigmac * (-3)
19:50:32 <oerjan> . o O ( slightly tempted by that one )
19:51:44 <oerjan> oh right, i already saw it but it's just a stub
19:52:27 <oerjan> disclosure: sometimes i don't read ais523's pages either because his prose is too dense for my brain
19:53:14 <oerjan> you may have noticed i like to use bullet points when i write myself.
19:53:34 <oerjan> which is somewhat ironic since i've never actually used powerpoint
19:53:40 <int-e> Hmm, is that covered under "minor compaction"?
19:53:43 <HackEso> Your omnidryad saddle principal ideal golfing toe-obsessed "Darth Ook" oerjan the shifty evil grinch is a punctual expert in minor compaction. Also a Groadep who minces Roald Dahl. He could never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His ark-nemesis is Noah. He twice punned without noticing it.
19:54:23 <int-e> also who needs powerpoint when there's \begin{itemize}?
19:54:36 <kmc> beamer mode 4 lyfe
19:56:05 <oerjan> regarding that, that cs.SE post was the first time i've written significant tex in years
19:56:34 <oerjan> although only for the actual math
20:22:09 <shachaf> whoa, new featured language
20:22:31 <shachaf> You gotta feature it in the topic so people will see.
20:48:34 * oerjan notes arseniiv in the logs pondering some particle stuff in a way that sounds suspiciously like trajedy
20:52:32 <fizzie> I did all my slides with that when I was TAing some machine learning stuff at university.
20:58:46 <arseniiv> oerjan: no no it was a dynamic system linked by xkapastel, search for “We discovered a simple motion law” a bit earlier
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21:31:12 <oerjan> arseniiv: i know it wasn't trajedy, but your ponderings sounded similar to how trajedy is TC
21:33:53 <arseniiv> oerjan: I figured you didn’t think it wasn’t trajedy, but it seemed to be useful to point out what exactly it was and why these questions. :) Actually, it was imode who asked about TCness :D I still doubt it, albeit I didn’t put new thought into that
21:35:56 <arseniiv> ah darn I missed the original context of why you mentioned that thing at all :D
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