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00:02:51 <fizzie> oerjan: Aw, that's sucky. I could convert the anchors not to rely on case, but the whole point of them was to be permalinks, and that would invalidate all existing ones.
00:03:34 <b_jonas> fizzie: by the way, are you working under such an NDA that doesn't allow you to tell your friends whether you're working in the pharma research division or the military research division?
00:04:00 <TheKing01> that you could make the language like Muriel by having it reprogram itself.
00:04:10 <fizzie> b_jonas: Not as far as I know, but I'm no legal expert and it's not like I've had a look at my employment contract since starting.
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00:05:06 <b_jonas> I've met someone who could explicitly tell that they were working on something related to the Chrome browser, and someone who was under such a strict NDA that they couldn't tell what they were working on
00:05:17 <b_jonas> so I think both kinds of jobs exist at Google
00:05:27 <fizzie> Well, Chrome's open source, all the commits are out there in public. It'd be hard to hide that.
00:06:35 <fizzie> I've gotten the impression that I can mention I'm working on the Android search app, which is pretty benign, modulo all those concerns about consumer choice and whatnot that are well outside my scope.
00:08:38 <TheKing01> Or a logic programming language where you get kicked if you add a contradiction.
00:09:23 <imode> the interpreter just closes on you lmao.
00:09:27 <imode> "I'm out, later B."
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00:10:50 <TheKing01> I mean it would kick you from this IRC channel.
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00:11:40 <oerjan> TheKing01: are you familiar with the Vigil language
00:16:19 <oerjan> fungot: do you see any bots?
00:16:19 <fungot> oerjan: i have, the loss fnord report may have missed the point, bisphosphonates, and i would be more than happy, to debate the government have
00:17:02 <fizzie> `` prefixes # that's a little like a bot list
00:17:04 <HackEso> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
00:17:12 <fizzie> That might be a little stale.
00:18:34 <oerjan> `slwd prefixes//s,Ego,Eso,
00:18:35 <HackEso> prefixes//Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
00:18:55 <fungot> (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .)S
00:19:31 <oerjan> ^def prefixes ul (Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .)S
00:19:41 <fizzie> It's a happy coincidence those parens go that way.
00:20:08 <oerjan> not really, i explicitly suggested jconn use ) just to get it that way
00:20:44 <oerjan> before that i used bf_txtgen
00:22:41 <oerjan> make that bf_txtgen + the ^str commands. awkward times.
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00:29:41 <kmc> google has a pharma research division?
00:30:13 <imode> honestly would _not_ be surprised.
00:30:34 <fizzie> There's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verily if it counts.
00:30:45 <fizzie> It's a separate bet now, though.
00:32:04 <fizzie> And https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calico_(company) as well.
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02:39:05 <esowiki> [[Template:Frac]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59522 * Cortex * (+37) Created page with "<sup>{{{1}}}</sup>/<sub>{{{2}}}</sub>"
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03:20:19 <esowiki> [[2/9 of an esolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=59523 * Cortex * (+1340) Created page with "'''2/9 of an esolang''' is an esolang made by [[User:Cortex|]] in order to make doing anything relatively easy, but long-winded and inconvenient. == Syntax == Every line of c..."
03:21:09 <esowiki> [[User:Cortex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59524&oldid=59445 * Cortex * (+52)
03:22:02 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59525&oldid=59355 * Cortex * (+51)
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05:50:32 <esowiki> [[2/9 of an esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59526&oldid=59523 * Ais523 * (+319) how can I resist an invitation like that? I picked two instructions which probably make the language TC (although I haven't actually checked if they do), and have clear but long-winded uses in translating more normal code
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06:52:25 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59527&oldid=59519 * A * (+542) /* Hello World! */
06:56:11 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59528&oldid=59527 * A * (+233) /* Control structures */
06:58:40 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59529&oldid=59528 * A * (+157) /* Goto statement */
07:02:14 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59530&oldid=59529 * A * (+336) /* while */
07:06:50 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59531&oldid=59530 * A * (+223) /* =for loop */
07:10:13 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59532&oldid=59531 * A * (+212) /* Setting variables */
07:21:57 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59533&oldid=59532 * A * (+425) /* Turing-completeness */
07:22:12 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59534&oldid=59533 * A * (+0) /* Turing-completeness */
07:25:47 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59535&oldid=59534 * A * (+224) /* do..while and do..until loop */
07:26:18 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59536&oldid=59535 * A * (+29) /* Turing-completeness */
07:26:58 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59537&oldid=59536 * A * (+9) /* Turing-completeness */
07:32:15 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59538&oldid=59537 * A * (+187)
07:41:27 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59539&oldid=59538 * A * (+566) /* Functions */
07:43:45 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59540&oldid=59539 * A * (+236) /* Functions */
07:44:10 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59541&oldid=59540 * A * (+33) /* Turing-completeness */
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07:51:00 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59542&oldid=59541 * A * (+459) /* Functions */
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07:53:58 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59543&oldid=59542 * A * (+121) /* Setting variables */
07:58:52 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59544&oldid=59543 * A * (+512) /* Objects */
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08:02:29 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59545&oldid=59544 * A * (+358) /* The powerful "thing" library */
09:16:18 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59546&oldid=59545 * A * (+131) /* The powerful "thing" library */
09:19:07 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59547&oldid=59546 * A * (+211) /* Other operators */
09:20:49 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59548&oldid=59547 * A * (+84) /* Other operators */
09:22:08 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59549&oldid=59548 * A * (+55) /* Other operators */
09:25:28 <esowiki> [[Talk:Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59550&oldid=59521 * A * (+49)
09:27:14 <esowiki> [[Talk:Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59551&oldid=59550 * A * (+93) Add something
09:28:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59552&oldid=59551 * A * (+26)
09:28:56 <esowiki> [[Talk:Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59553&oldid=59552 * A * (+18)
09:29:39 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59554&oldid=59549 * A * (+4) commenting is better.
09:31:05 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59555&oldid=59554 * A * (+79)
09:35:41 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59556&oldid=59555 * A * (+201) /* Macros */
09:35:49 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59557&oldid=59556 * A * (+1) /* =Dynamic macros */
09:38:19 <esowiki> [[Talk:Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59558&oldid=59553 * A * (-135)
09:48:51 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59559&oldid=59557 * A * (+257) /* Documentation */
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10:19:46 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59560&oldid=59559 * A * (+375) Add an undone list
10:24:54 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59561&oldid=59560 * A * (+4) /* Undone list */
10:27:18 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59562&oldid=59561 * A * (-15)
10:27:36 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59563&oldid=59562 * A * (-1) /* Hello World! */
10:29:52 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59564&oldid=59563 * A * (+135) /* Hello World! */
10:30:34 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59565&oldid=59564 * A * (+28) /* Unfinished list */
10:31:43 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59566&oldid=59565 * A * (+24) /* Unfinished list */
10:32:06 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59567&oldid=59566 * A * (+0) /* Unfinished list */
10:35:20 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59568&oldid=59567 * A * (+158) /* The powerful "thing" library */
10:35:59 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59569&oldid=59568 * A * (+12) /* Unfinished list */
10:39:13 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59570&oldid=59569 * A * (+2) /* Self-modification */
10:56:01 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59571&oldid=59570 * A * (-169) /* The powerful "thing" library */
10:56:19 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59572&oldid=59571 * A * (-10) /* The powerful "thing" library */
11:05:10 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59573&oldid=59572 * A * (+0) /* Other operators */
11:10:35 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59574&oldid=59573 * A * (+126) /* Self-modification */
11:11:09 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59575&oldid=59574 * A * (+12) /* Unfinished list */
11:16:43 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59576&oldid=59575 * A * (+171) /* Objects */
11:19:08 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59577&oldid=59492 * A * (+69) /* Decimal */
11:21:22 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59578&oldid=59066 * A * (+77) /* CopyPasta Language */
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11:24:22 <wob_jonas> oerjan: IIRC the trick wasn't that jconn would use that parenthesis, it already did, but that you kept jconn in that list even when its hoster no longer ran it
11:27:20 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59579&oldid=59576 * A * (+50) /* Setting variables */
11:32:36 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59580&oldid=59579 * A * (+70) /* Setting variables */
11:32:55 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59581&oldid=59580 * A * (+17) /* Other operators */
11:33:19 <wob_jonas> `bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190129.html
11:33:20 <HackEso> bobadventureslist http://bobadventures.comicgenesis.com/d/20190129.html: b_jonas
11:36:54 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59582&oldid=59581 * A * (+31) /* Other operators */
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11:43:07 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59583&oldid=59578 * A * (+553) /* Code pointer */
11:43:19 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59584&oldid=59583 * A * (+1) /* =Difficult */
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11:50:50 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59585&oldid=59295 * A * (+354) /* Deadfish */
11:51:51 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59586&oldid=59584 * A * (+84) /* Difficult */
11:57:41 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59587&oldid=59491 * A * (+169) /* Definer */
11:58:42 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59588&oldid=59587 * A * (+53) /* Difficult */
11:59:45 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59589&oldid=59588 * A * (+111) /* Difficult */
12:00:55 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59590&oldid=59586 * A * (+6) /* Difficult */
12:01:48 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59591&oldid=59582 * A * (+60) /* The powerful "thing" library */
12:02:36 <esowiki> [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59592&oldid=59590 * A * (+0) Problems in my own code again
12:06:24 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59593&oldid=59591 * A * (+47) /* Unfinished list */
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12:21:27 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59594&oldid=59593 * A * (+27)
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12:24:40 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59595&oldid=59594 * A * (-78) No way to cheat now
12:27:00 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59596&oldid=59595 * A * (+1) /* Turing-completeness */
12:27:49 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59597&oldid=59596 * A * (+25) /* Instruction encipherment/decipherment */
12:28:40 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59598&oldid=59597 * A * (+49) /* Instruction encipherment/decipherment */
12:29:18 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59599&oldid=59598 * A * (-179) /* Unfinished list */
12:32:59 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59600&oldid=59599 * A * (+118) /* Unfinished list */
12:40:06 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59601&oldid=59600 * A * (+183) /* If-else if-else statement */
12:46:27 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59602&oldid=59601 * A * (+211) /* for loop */
12:49:27 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59603&oldid=59602 * A * (+134) /* Loop constructs */
12:50:59 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59604&oldid=59603 * A * (+43) /* Hello World! */
12:51:33 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59605&oldid=59604 * A * (+25) /* The powerful "thing" library */
12:52:14 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59606&oldid=59605 * A * (+35) /* The powerful "thing" library */
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13:56:17 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59607&oldid=59606 * A * (+252) /* Control structures */
13:57:32 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59608&oldid=59607 * A * (+58) /* The powerful "thing" library */
13:58:07 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59609&oldid=59589 * A * (-109) /* Difficult */
13:58:51 <esowiki> [[Difficult]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59610&oldid=59608 * A * (-118) /* Implementations */
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14:41:17 <wob_jonas> https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/ravnica-allegiance-oracle-changes-2019-01-22 YES!
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15:46:51 <wob_jonas> ``` toroman "$[1+$(fromroman XV)]"
16:03:28 <esowiki> [[Cthulhu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59611&oldid=59303 * Joshop * (-47)
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19:37:14 <rdococ> What would be the best way to create a new programming paradigm?
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19:59:29 <int-e> build a time machine and go back to the 50s
20:04:40 <shachaf> I feel like I'm missing some tricks for writing C code that doesn't use general-purpose allocators.
20:05:00 <shachaf> Where can I read about that sort of thing?
20:05:51 <kmc> what kind of code?
20:06:02 <kmc> you probably want to read guides on embedded programming
20:06:20 <kmc> often dynamic allocation is not allowed at all
20:06:32 <kmc> static ring buffers are useful
20:06:40 <kmc> LRU caches
20:06:54 <kmc> skip arrays?
20:07:00 <shachaf> static allocation is p. good
20:07:15 <kmc> it's almost as good as not needing memory at all
20:07:47 <kmc> if you have to do something that requires dynamic allocation, but a bounded amount, you can use a statically or stack allocated arena
20:07:52 <shachaf> What about a situation like a tree where nodes can have a varying number of children?
20:07:55 <kmc> and the bonus is you don't need to free anything
20:08:00 <shachaf> Most nodes have few children but some could have a lot.
20:08:53 <shachaf> I do like the trick of using an arena as a stack where you can push and pop frames (but with different lifetimes from the call stack).
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20:31:08 <kmc> I'm not sure if it's a thing?
20:31:16 <kmc> maybe only skip lists are a thing
20:31:29 <kmc> but you can use array indices instead of pointers
20:31:32 <kmc> in general
20:31:52 <kmc> the arena as stack sounds like it would be very hazardous in C
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20:35:37 <imode> shachaf: you can always statically allocate a block of memory to hold a tree. you'd just have a set amount of nodes you could mark as used.
20:36:57 <imode> you'd always want to impose a maximum on the number of children a particular node could have. the only technique that you use is allocating a "reasonable maximum" ahead of time.
20:37:10 <imode> finding that maximum takes analysis.
20:39:07 <imode> a particular node could be `struct node { uint32_t data; uint32_t children[16]; }`
20:39:23 <imode> you could also have a pointer to the parent "pool" of nodes that it comes from.
20:40:03 <imode> `struct node_pool { struct node nodes[1024]; }; struct node { uint32_t data; uint32_t children[16]; }`
20:40:06 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: struct: not found
20:41:08 <imode> traversal then "looks" like you're dealing with pointers, so your algorithms are the same. but it's also far more useful due to data locality: if you use multiple pools and the pools are reasonably sized to fit your processor's cache, then operations over your trees will be very fast.
20:46:10 <kmc> you could also have ways to deal with multiple sizes of node
20:46:17 <kmc> like a flag that says "this node is a continuation of the previous"
20:46:25 <kmc> of course when you make things more complex like this, it starts to resemble a general allocator
20:48:17 <imode> exactly. but that's kind of the point: in lieu of using the system allocator, you'd probably just write your own if you need those kinds of patterns.
20:48:54 <imode> but that's the practicality of writing your own: domain specific allocators are good for domain specific access patterns.
20:51:09 <kmc> shachaf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slab_allocation
20:53:26 <shachaf> kmc: Why would it be hazardous?
20:53:45 <kmc> well, maybe no more hazardous than regular malloc
20:53:52 <kmc> but you have two different separately managed stacks
20:53:57 <kmc> seems like a recipe for use-after-free
20:54:46 <shachaf> I mean, you need to keep track of lifetimes, but you need to do that anyway, and in general things should be be easier to keep track of.
20:55:11 <shachaf> An obvious use is something like sprintf which can just print to the arena.
20:56:18 <imode> I prefer all my state to be global. put your constraints on your access patterns, rather than on your modeling patterns.
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21:12:55 <rain1> do you like post quantum crypto?
21:13:13 <rain1> https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/post-quantum-cryptography/round-2-submissions some interesting algorithms
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21:17:39 <kmc> are they all code- or lattice-based?
21:18:32 <kmc> my favorite pq crypto algorithm is lamport signatures :)
21:18:34 <kmc> so simple!
21:21:31 <shachaf> Did you know you can make a thing based on Lamport signatures that works for 2^128 or however many uses you want?
21:23:32 <shachaf> Unfortunately they're still pretty large.
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21:25:52 <kmc> using merkle trees?
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21:33:30 <kmc> the signatures themselves are long
21:33:34 <kmc> but the key is still short, right?
21:34:10 <kmc> hm, no, that's not right
21:34:22 <kmc> I have forgotten most of what I knew about crypto :(
21:34:26 <kmc> or at least paged it out to cold storage
21:45:52 <shachaf> it's all about blockchain nowadays hth
21:46:05 <shachaf> the good news is you don't need to know anything to participate
21:51:06 <esowiki> [[Eodermdrome]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=59612&oldid=51766 * Salpynx * (+211) add example links
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22:15:56 <shachaf> #define struct(name) typedef struct name name; struct name
22:16:39 <kmc> how 'bout not
22:16:56 <kmc> but you can do
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22:17:05 <kmc> typedef struct foo_s { ... } foo;
22:17:27 <kmc> and then you can use types like 'struct foo_s *' in the body of the definition, and 'foo *' everywhere else
22:17:36 <kmc> use C++ :D
22:21:57 <b_jonas> shachaf: I think the standards forbid you to define a macro whose name is a keyword of the language
22:22:15 <b_jonas> but then preprocessors do accept it, so it might not matter
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22:37:46 <rdococ> What is the COMEFROM/CALLFROM equivalent of first-class functions?
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22:51:33 <fizzie> b_jonas: shachaf: You are allowed to have macros lexically identical to keywords, you just can't have any of them defined at the time when you include a standard header or expand any macro defined in a standard header. C11 7.1.2p4.
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23:13:04 <shachaf> ski: What do you think of this linear Prolog thing?
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