00:00:27 <zzo38> OK. What are the exact rules of what you thought?
00:01:09 <b_jonas> I thought you'd choose the new letter each wildcard represents simultaneously with placing letters on the board, and valid words are only checked after the whole thing is done
00:01:55 <b_jonas> each wildcard on the board that is
00:03:11 <zzo38> O, I forgot to mention, with my rule, you can still change both wildcards simultaneously (so you do not need to remember what letter was originally assigned, which is the point of this rule).
00:12:05 <int-e> oerjan: I had not noticed... it's definitely not intentional.
00:13:17 <int-e> shachaf: cute, but not overly impressive
00:13:35 <b_jonas> int-e: wait, he hasn't gotten to the end yet
00:13:53 <shachaf> int-e: Sure, there's not too much you can do.
00:14:07 <shachaf> i,i http://bada55.cr.yp.to/
00:16:39 <int-e> oerjan: so... is it okay to update the potm to fix a typo?
00:51:30 <oerjan> int-e: it may have been done previously
00:51:45 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/log/tip/wisdom/password
00:54:40 <oerjan> there have been corrections, although i'm not sure any of them count as typos in the password itself...
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00:55:42 <oerjan> hm the "more" button no longer works for me
00:56:04 <oerjan> i suppose it's neither
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06:36:44 <imode> a queue's no-op operation is not immediately obvious unless your queue automata supports no-op transitions.
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15:29:27 <int-e> `slwd password//s=...-=hty-=
15:29:28 <HackEso> password//The password of the month is eighty-three characters long but contains no special characters except for a hyphen.
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17:24:51 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * FLeckami * New user account
17:30:21 <imode> it looks like, in the absence of a 'keep' operation for queue automata, you need to expand the alphabet or 'simulated' alphabet by at least one symbol, one that indicates a 'useless' or 'marker' symbol that you seek to.
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18:47:06 <orin> suppose that `ary' is an operator that changes the arity of the given function
18:47:31 <orin> e.g. `ary 2 f x y' applies f to x and y
18:49:08 <orin> can `ary' replace parentheses in all cases?
18:52:13 <orin> further, what default behaviours might be useful with this syntax
18:55:14 <Phantom_Hoover> is f just the standard arithmetic functions? actually how does that work with division then?
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19:56:34 <b_jonas> orin: you could probably do that with one of these crazy haskell syntax hacks, but I don't think it's a good idea because it sort of abuses the existing syntax, in the same way as the almost BASIC interpreter where you put the almost BASIC code directly as haskell code with some prelude does
20:02:51 <orin> b_jonas: I was more envisioning it as a lisp hack
20:03:10 <orin> taking the parentheses out of lisp
20:03:32 <orin> replacing them essentially with Hollerith-Expressions
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20:19:44 <orin> stupid english i mean it's got a fucking "qu" at the start can we at least pronounce that in a consistent manner? NO APPARENLY NOT, it is pronounces "kyoo"
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20:35:45 <b_jonas> orin: "deque" is even worse
21:15:30 <int-e> . o O ( did you ever run out of memory when playing with a full deque... )
21:17:13 <kmc> a few cards short of a full deque
21:23:59 <shachaf> kmc: did you know visual c++'s deque implementation uses 16-byte chunks?
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21:28:00 <kmc> why? cache shit?
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21:37:58 <shachaf> also did you know p. much all of the c++ stl is scow
21:41:53 <kmc> I did know that
21:42:23 <kmc> C++ has a lot of properties (especially exceptions) which make it necessary to heap-allocate when you might not think you should need to
21:42:46 <kmc> making an exception safe sum type class template is really hard :/
21:42:51 <kmc> without allocating
21:43:19 <kmc> did you know that std::vector resize has to call the copy constructor on every element, then the destructor on every old element
21:43:28 <kmc> (or if there's a noexcept move constructor it can use that)
21:43:36 <kmc> in rust the resize is just a memcpy
21:45:14 <j4cbo> std::variant went through a LOT of iteration around that
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21:54:51 <shachaf> Did you know unordered_map/set more or less specifies that hash tables have to use linked lists instead of open addressing?
21:55:24 <shachaf> exceptions are scow, i'm p. sure
21:55:37 <shachaf> and maybe destructors are scow too??
21:55:47 <kmc> re exceptions
21:55:53 <kmc> destructors are necessary for RAII, which is great
21:55:59 <kmc> so I think they're a necessary evil
21:56:00 <shachaf> I'm not sure RAII is great.
21:56:05 <kmc> well you're wrong
21:56:08 <kmc> change_my_mind.jpg
21:56:14 <shachaf> I mean, I think RAII might be the wrong thing.
21:56:31 <shachaf> A thing that runs some code at the end of a scope is great. But that doesn't mean it needs to be associated with an object.
21:56:33 <kmc> RAII is defiitely the right thing for a systems language
21:56:43 <kmc> no it doesn't have to be, but it works out very nicely when it is
21:56:57 <kmc> it's a variation on "make invalid states impossible to represent"
21:57:10 <kmc> and often the RAII guards have some value level content
21:57:20 <kmc> in Rust, the only way to access the contents of a mutex is through a raii lock object
21:57:29 <shachaf> I used to be more pro-RAII than I am now. I'm not sure about it.
21:57:30 <kmc> plus which, you can use raii with non lexical scope just as well
21:58:16 <shachaf> Also destructors are scow with arenas (?)
21:58:28 <shachaf> And arenas should be used more. But they're kind of scow in Rust.
22:02:08 <shachaf> I'm not sure the objects-with-destructors-composed-of-smaller-objects-with-destructors thing is great anyway
22:02:18 <shachaf> I don't even know how to write good software
22:02:40 <shachaf> Maybe you gotta statically allocate everything
22:06:49 <shachaf> kmc: You know the C++ bug where instead ofe "{ WithLock unused_nam(lock); ... }" you write "{ WithLock(lock); ... }"?
22:07:50 <kmc> same happens in rust
22:07:59 <kmc> with either "x.lock();" or "let _ = x.lock();"
22:08:05 <kmc> but "let _foo = x.lock();" is fine
22:08:15 <kmc> I believe the compiler will error on the first two
22:09:01 <shachaf> The RAII lock object is not a real object, it's a control structure.
22:09:17 <kmc> why shouldn't i think of it as a real object?
22:09:22 <kmc> it has methods, it has capabilities
22:09:30 <kmc> whether it has extent in memory is an implementation detail
22:09:45 <kmc> in rust it's a smart pointer, and smart pointers are definitely objects
22:09:48 <shachaf> I mean, that's the OO thing, thinking about everything as a real object.
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22:10:47 <shachaf> In Python you'd write "with lock: ..." or something and it would be pretty clear what's going on, with no object.
22:11:40 <shachaf> Or you'd write "with foo() as x: ..." if you need an object inside the scope to do things with it.
22:13:32 <kmc> meh, i don't want to talk about this any further at the moment
22:15:05 <shachaf> I've been trying to figure out better things for a while, it's not just criticism.
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