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01:45:13 <fizzie> IDGI: everywhere they say that the old FreeType autohinter is not needed at all any more, with the TrueType hinting patent issues resolved, but I get just terrible-looking text (at least in urxvt, for both DejaVu Sans Mono and Inconsolata) unless I specifically ~/.config/fontconfig/fonts.conf <edit name="autohint" mode="assign"><bool>true</bool></edit>.
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01:48:23 <zzo38> You can also use bitmap fonts of the correct size to avoid bad hinting, I suppose (since then, hinting is unnecessary). But, is there a possibility to edit TrueType fonts to change the hinting for each one if needed?
01:51:12 <fizzie> Yes, I suppose, but these are well-regarded fonts that should have "better-than-autohinter" hinting information already included. Either that's not the case, or there's something wrong in my setup that the font driver isn't using that.
01:53:13 <zzo38> O, OK, well then if the included hinting doesn't work then set the old autohint mode I suppose is good. Does it have the ability to set it conditionally based on the font size?
01:54:49 <fizzie> Yes, it's possible to condition on size. And the autohint=true is acceptable, I'm just confused because in a lot of places over the internet people keep saying "you should set autohint=false, it's worse".
01:56:45 <zzo38> Is it possible to implement the FreeType autohint code in the TrueType VM code?
01:58:45 <fizzie> That, I don't know. But FreeType have published a piece of software (ttfautohint) to essentially run the FreeType autohint on a font, manually fine-tune some aspects, and write that into the TTF hinting information.
01:59:06 <zzo38> (For printer fints, I think METAFONT works well and it is possible to do hinting.)
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04:51:23 <esowiki> [[Post Dominos]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60330 * Orby * (+1625) Introducing Post Dominos
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05:15:44 <adu> Does anyone wanna help me write a low-level language like webassembly but called something else, and write patches for chrome and firefox and convince game developers to use it?
05:17:30 <zzo38> I am not so sure about patches for Chrome and Firefox, but perhaps a standalone program can be written to execute the codes
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05:19:43 <Hooloovo0> adu, what's the improvement over webassembly?
05:19:57 <Hooloovo0> getting developers to switch is a really hard thing to do
05:21:27 <zzo38> Yes, that is the other question; what differences from WebAssembly are they?
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05:35:21 <adu> It would be the MMIX instructions set
05:35:31 <adu> and the improvement would be more lulz
05:39:45 <adu> it's just that knuth's version is kind of ancient and the gnu version is hard to use
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06:22:15 <zzo38> MMIX is OK, I think
06:22:26 <zzo38> (And, there is the implementation, too)
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06:35:41 <zzo38> I wrote the change file called "extext.ch" which can be used to support other system calls than the built-in ones.
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06:46:54 <zzo38> ZZT allows duplicate labels, and has #ZAP and #RESTORE commands, which cause all jumps to one label with that name to jump to another label with the same name instead.
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06:55:46 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CrazySqueak * New user account
07:02:38 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60331&oldid=60324 * CrazySqueak * (+220) /* Introductions */
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07:15:33 <esowiki> [[Binary lambda calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60332&oldid=51637 * Zzo38 * (+312)
08:00:29 <esowiki> [[Post Dominos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60333&oldid=60330 * Oerjan * (-3) /* See also */ Use proper name of ///
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08:12:03 <esowiki> [[Headshot!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60334 * CrazySqueak * (+5946) Entry for a language I'm developing.
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08:15:42 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60335&oldid=60282 * CrazySqueak * (+16) Added Headshot! (a language I'm developing) to the list.
08:16:23 <esowiki> [[Headshot!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60336&oldid=60334 * CrazySqueak * (-5)
08:29:08 <esowiki> [[Hellborne]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60337&oldid=46957 * CrazySqueak * (+1) Fixed a spelling mistake ("Fliping" -> "Flipping")
08:31:55 <oerjan> but that completely flipes the meaning...
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12:45:04 <esowiki> [[Post Dominos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60338&oldid=60333 * Orby * (+9) Adjusting notation to match interpreter
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13:08:23 <esowiki> [[Post Dominos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60339&oldid=60338 * Orby * (+2) Fixing typo
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13:34:37 <esowiki> [[User:CrazySqueak]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60340 * CrazySqueak * (+149) Created.
14:34:23 <esowiki> [[Post Dominos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60341&oldid=60339 * Orby * (+356)
14:52:05 <esowiki> [[Headshot!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60342&oldid=60336 * CrazySqueak * (+932) Headshot! now has conditionals and iteration through the 'label', 'goto', and 'cgoto' commands. Also added truth machine example.
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14:56:56 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60343&oldid=60303 * A * (-29)
14:59:09 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60344&oldid=60343 * A * (+32)
14:59:23 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60345&oldid=60344 * A * (-2)
15:14:36 <esowiki> [[Bucket]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60346 * A * (+383) Created page with "[[Bucket]] is a series of programming languages involving 3 basic operations. A derivative can be described using the tuple (a,b), where a<=b. What you can do is: * Empty the..."
15:19:08 <esowiki> [[Bucket]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60347&oldid=60346 * A * (+688)
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17:59:08 <esowiki> [[Post Dominos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60349&oldid=60341 * Orby * (-132) /* Canonical programs */ Updating with interpreter behvaior
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19:39:55 <esowiki> [[ALLSCII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60350&oldid=60327 * Cortex * (+130)
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20:08:53 <esowiki> [[Interfrac]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60351 * Orby * (+1275) Created page with "Interfrac is a declarative esolang. It was discovered by [[User:Orby]] in 1994. ==Introduction== In 1994, at the tender age of ten, I made a startling discovery about fractio..."
20:09:32 <esowiki> [[User:Orby]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60352&oldid=60308 * Orby * (+73)
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20:14:36 <esowiki> [[Interfrac]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60353&oldid=60351 * Orby * (+60) /* See also */
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20:35:59 <esowiki> [[Interfrac]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60354&oldid=60353 * Orby * (+315) /* Examples */ Adding more examples
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21:00:41 <esowiki> [[Talk:Interfrac]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60355 * Ais523 * (+456) this might be more interesting than it looks?
21:04:43 <esowiki> [[Talk:Interfrac]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60356&oldid=60355 * Orby * (+254)
21:09:01 <esowiki> [[Interfrac]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60357&oldid=60354 * Ais523 * (+638) implementation (other than parsing/syntax)
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21:55:50 <ais523> Interfrac is really interesting
21:56:01 <ais523> I'm leaning towards it being sub-TC, but it's hard to prove that
21:57:42 <ais523> if you restrict the number of times each fraction is used to being a power of n for some n, you can solve it in an amount of space that depends only on the program (not the size of the input), which proves that that variation of the language is sub-TC, but there's no obvious reason this would generalize to the language without that restriction
22:03:45 <orby> Hey ais523! Yeah, I've been struggling with the TC question too. If it is TC, I think mapping it to the PCP might be the most straight forward way of proving it.
22:04:29 <ais523> that's why I was thinking along the power-of-n lines
22:04:47 <orby> ahh, I see where you're coming from. that's interesting
22:05:02 <ais523> but I don't think it works, because the left and right strings of a Post domino can have an arbitrary shift between them, whereas in Interfrac the shift would have to be the same for the two
22:05:22 <ais523> it's more like But Is It Art? than the PCP, but it can't implement that for the same reason (the power-of-n thing)
22:06:10 <orby> Let me catch up on BIIA. I've looked at it before, but not in a long time.
22:06:53 <orby> I've been thinking about implementing some sort of cracked out push down automaton for the purposes of proving things sub TC
22:07:39 <ais523> the idea being that you compile the sub-TC languages into it?
22:09:06 <orby> that you implement an interpreter in the push down automaton for a language with a questionable computational class
22:09:07 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/BuzzFizz was created for a very similar purpose, but I'm not sure it's a perfect fit for this
22:10:05 <orby> Nice, good idea :)
22:10:09 <ais523> and I certainly can't see a way to implement Interfrac in it
22:10:39 <orby> hmm, no neither do I
22:12:38 <orby> Maybe oerjan will have an idea if he comes along
22:14:53 <int-e> Interfrac reduces to integer linear programming, I'd think. (The + is addition of 2D vectors of integers.)
22:16:04 <ais523> I think that it's decidadble whether, in Interfrac, there's /some/ input that will work
22:16:55 <int-e> Take the -2/5, 1/-7, 1/-3, 1/-2 program; introduce a variable for how often each vector is added: a,b,c,d; then n is accapted if -2a+b+c+d = n and 5a-7b-3c-2d = n, where a,b,c,d >= 0 and a+b+c+d > 1.
22:17:42 <ais523> if you have two fractions a/b, c/d with a>b and c<d, then take (d-c) copies of the former, (a-b) copies of the latter, and you get (d-c)a + (a-b)c opposite (d-c)b + (a-b)d, = ad-ac+ac-bc opposite bd-bc + ad-bd, = ad-bc opposite ad-bc
22:18:27 <ais523> and if you /don't/ have two fractions a/b, c/d with a>b and c<d, then either you have a fraction x/x in which case it's trivial, or else every fraction is >1 or every fraction is <1 and thus it's obvious that the two sides can't balance
22:18:44 <ais523> however, the introduction of the input makes things much more complex
22:18:47 <int-e> And I think there's enough theory to compute the set of all n that have solutions as well; it should be ultimately periodic, but hmm... details.
22:19:35 <ais523> int-e: as far as I can tell from the Wikipedia article, ILP has an unknown computational class
22:19:39 <ais523> (although it's known to be NP-hard)
22:20:21 <ais523> there are special cases with known computational classes, though, and Interfrac may be one of them
22:20:35 <orby> Doesn't that make an interfrac program equivalent to a system of linear diophantine equations?
22:20:51 <int-e> ais523: the decision problem (does a set of constraints have a solution) is NP-complete.
22:21:12 <int-e> ais523: computing an optimal solution just isn't a decision problem.
22:21:51 <ais523> int-e: the decision problem variant of that is "does a set of constraints have a solution with a <= k" for given k, likewise for the other variables
22:22:00 <ais523> then you can find the optimal solution via binary search
22:23:13 <orby> It's not clear to be that the existance of some n for which the system has a solution is decidable, is that clear to either of you?
22:24:00 <orby> well then it's definitely sub tc because we're solving the halting problem, right?
22:24:16 <ais523> here is the decision algorithm: if there is a fraction with numerator ≥ denominator, and a fraction with denominator ≥ numerator, there is some input that is a solution, otherwise there is not
22:24:17 <int-e> ais523: I'm pretty sure there's an upper bound ... looking for a reference
22:24:29 <ais523> /however/, my proof doesn't work for a given input
22:25:03 <orby> but for a given input, it's just a system of linear diophantine equations, which are well understood?
22:26:00 <ais523> even without a given input, it's a system of linear diophantine equations
22:26:07 <ais523> but without a given input, you have one equation rather than two
22:26:18 <orby> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diophantine_equation#System_of_linear_Diophantine_equations
22:26:20 <ais523> err, although it trivially collapses to one equation in either case
22:26:43 <ais523> OK, so we have a decision algorithm for that too
22:26:51 <ais523> so yes, decidable language, thus sub-TC
22:26:55 <orby> yeah, I think sub tc
22:27:03 <ais523> and the correct computational class is now almost certainly NP-complete
22:27:24 <orby> yeah, np-complete for the subset sum problem you brought up on the talk page
22:27:57 <ais523> that's NP-complete for given input, you can solve it in linear time and constant space if you just want to know whether some input matches
22:30:05 <ais523> hmm, this is interesting, now we have a known computational class but it's not any of the wiki's computational class categoriees
22:32:41 <orby> ha, I broke the wiki
22:36:43 <orby> I didn't break any wiki, I'm just kidding
22:37:52 <fizzie> I see. Sorry, I just notice that sort of thing since it usually means I need to fix something.
22:38:04 <orby> Sorry to startle you!
22:39:13 <fizzie> I think I should update MediaWiki sometime soon anyway, though, it's been a long while.
22:39:30 <orby> Updates are good for the soul.
22:40:02 <int-e> ais523: hrm I'm drawing a blank for now. In any case decidability of ILP is all we need here anyway.
22:40:50 <int-e> (to show that this is sub-TC)
22:41:47 <int-e> so we can use things like the omega test
22:49:37 <int-e> hah. http://lara.epfl.ch/w/_media/papadimitriou81complexityintegerprogramming.pdf
22:51:22 <int-e> ais523: ^^ found something
22:53:21 <orby> that's awesome
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23:18:45 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zesterer * New user account
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23:21:51 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60358&oldid=60331 * Zesterer * (+204) Added personal introduction
23:22:42 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60359&oldid=60335 * Zesterer * (+16) Added Stackfuck
23:41:54 <esowiki> [[User:Orby]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60360&oldid=60352 * Orby * (+80)
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23:55:26 <esowiki> [[Hanoifuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=60361 * Zesterer * (+2105) Created page
23:57:53 <esowiki> [[Hanoifuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60362&oldid=60361 * Zesterer * (+312)
23:58:46 <esowiki> [[Hanoifuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=60363&oldid=60362 * Zesterer * (+24)