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00:55:00 <fizzie> Heh, the place I've been using for (free) secondary DNS apparently discontinued the free account tier and made it a paid service, back mid-2017.
00:55:27 <fizzie> But they didn't deactivate existing domains, and I haven't had the occasion to make any changes, so I completely didn't notice.
00:55:33 <fizzie> Guess it's time to look for alternatives.
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01:24:58 <salpynx> Right, so /\^ are destructive operators rather than a way to traverse the tree: 2((2 0 0) (2 0 0))\^ := (2 0 0)^ := _ , you don't end up back where you started by going up. I was wondering if something like 0^^^^^.0 (go up 5 hole-levels from a root node and plug a disconnected hole) would be a problem, but it's actually straighfwd: 0^^^^^.0 := _.0
01:28:57 <salpynx> excuse the syntax, s/2(/(2/ ... I'm very new to this language
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04:18:06 <esowiki> [[Talk:Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63730&oldid=63718 * A * (+859) /* Explanation */
04:20:34 <esowiki> [[Swapping Turing Machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63731&oldid=63322 * A * (+250) TM to STM
04:48:29 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63732&oldid=63721 * A * (+22) Are you trying to crash the user's computer? It is a crime to write a program like this. (Just kidding, I am trying to say that you mismatched a brace.)
04:49:09 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63733&oldid=63732 * A * (+2) * Trying to check if you mismatched a brace
04:50:48 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63734&oldid=63733 * A * (-10) /* Hello World Program */ If you included "using namespace std;", you can drop std:: to make the program shorter. (With other encancements)
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05:02:09 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63735&oldid=63734 * A * (+268) /* Hello World Program */ Cleaner program
05:28:30 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63736&oldid=63735 * A * (-93) /* Hello World Program */
05:31:10 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63737&oldid=63736 * A * (+262) /* Hello World Program */
05:32:38 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63738&oldid=63737 * A * (+8) /* Hello World Program */ Update URL
05:34:40 <esowiki> [[Talk:Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63739&oldid=63730 * A * (+290) /* (Unfortunately) bounded memory support */
05:38:57 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63740&oldid=63738 * A * (-58) /* Hello World Program */ Update my program to a one-liner to show contrast
05:44:07 <esowiki> [[Rook]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63741&oldid=63740 * A * (-5) /* Hello World Program */
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07:20:22 <esowiki> [[Cyclic Amplification System]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=63742 * A * (+267) Created page with "[[Cyclic Amplification System]] is a language that multiplies an integer and adds the carry back to the number. == An example == Base 10, program <code>444</code>, rule <code>..."
07:27:17 <esowiki> [[Cyclic Amplification System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63743&oldid=63742 * A * (+618) /* An example */
07:30:11 <esowiki> [[Cyclic Amplification System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63744&oldid=63743 * A * (+29) /* Another example for a computation that does executions twice */
07:42:28 <esowiki> [[Cyclic Amplification System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63745&oldid=63744 * A * (+1290)
07:47:50 <esowiki> [[Cyclic Amplification System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63746&oldid=63745 * A * (-1) /* Another example for a computation that does many executions finitely */
07:48:43 <esowiki> [[Cyclic Amplification System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63747&oldid=63746 * A * (-38) /* Computational class */
07:54:05 <esowiki> [[Union]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63748&oldid=63284 * A * (+86)
07:58:40 <esowiki> [[Talk:Timeline of esoteric programming languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63749&oldid=24301 * A * (+364)
07:59:44 <esowiki> [[Talk:Timeline of esoteric programming languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63750&oldid=63749 * A * (+44) /* Is "Union" notable? */
08:03:51 <esowiki> [[Timeline of esoteric programming languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63751&oldid=61780 * A * (+203) /* 2014 */
08:05:48 <esowiki> [[Timeline of esoteric programming languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63752&oldid=63751 * A * (+7) /* 2019 */
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08:30:50 <esowiki> [[Swapping Turing Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63753&oldid=63731 * TuxCrafting * (-250) Undo revision 63731 by [[Special:Contributions/A|A]] ([[User talk:A|talk]]) the talk page doesn't have anything about a tm -> stm conversion
09:06:35 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63754&oldid=62192 * Total Vacuum * (+92) /* Hardware implementations */
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09:56:16 <arseniiv> salpynx: it occurred to me when I was going to sleep earlier, that behavior of \ and / shouldn’t suggest that 0 is 2 _ _: as a tree′ they operate on represents the zipper wholly, when it’s focused on a leaf (0), the tree′ looks like this: 2 u′ 0, and if 0 would be equivalent to 2 _ _, then the result of \ would give us 2 (u′ ∘ 2 _ _) _, not simply one _
09:56:43 <arseniiv> so it seems I picked _ for these unapplicability cases more or less wise, after all
09:58:11 <arseniiv> now, what could I change in the description to make things clearer? Hm I’ll better write out how I treat zippers in a more explicit manner, at least
10:03:08 <esowiki> [[Punctree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63755&oldid=63729 * Arseniiv * (+100) /* Values */ clarifying a bit
10:03:22 <arseniiv> also it seems there still was a typo :D
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11:47:39 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SMA * uploaded "[[File:Sqrt2b.png]]"
11:50:27 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * SMA * uploaded "[[File:Sqrt2.png]]"
12:03:16 <esowiki> [[BiTrax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63758&oldid=42757 * SMA * (+127) Square root example. Removed dead link.
12:22:52 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63759&oldid=63703 * A * (+272) /* Write some nonsense here */
12:24:35 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63760&oldid=63759 * A * (+73) /* Write some nonsense here */
12:26:50 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63761&oldid=63760 * A * (+17) /* Write some nonsense here */
12:43:02 <esowiki> [[User talk:A]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63762&oldid=63761 * A * (-40) /* Write some nonsense here */
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14:23:23 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63763&oldid=63531 * Areallycoolusername * (+442)
14:25:59 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63764&oldid=63763 * Areallycoolusername * (-442) /* C++ */
14:28:08 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63765&oldid=63764 * Areallycoolusername * (+442)
14:29:11 <esowiki> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63766&oldid=63765 * Areallycoolusername * (+11) /* C++ */
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15:16:45 <esowiki> [[Talk:Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63767&oldid=63739 * Areallycoolusername * (+396)
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15:32:05 <esowiki> [[Rook]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63768&oldid=63741 * Areallycoolusername * (+41)
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19:41:39 <arseniiv_> writing pythonic interpreter for Punctree, though I have been out for a time, and before that I had realized I need to represent trees′ as it’s done in a zipper, or zipper operations would be ineffective, and maybe some other ones too
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20:03:21 <b_jonas> arseniiv: ah yes. that might turn out to be tricky
20:04:03 <b_jonas> arseniiv: as for that language, besides an interpreter and some example programs, it may help if you wrote something about why this language is interesting to the wiki
20:04:33 <b_jonas> like, what emergent properties it has, what rules follow from its definition, what things are impossible to do in it, what are hard, etc
20:05:02 <b_jonas> it's possible that you don't know yet, that's normal when you invent an esolang, just saying that if you wrote such things, it may motivate other people to get interested about the language more than if you just give a definition
20:06:28 <b_jonas> and these are part of the things why I haven't posted anything specific about Consumer Society yet: it will be much more interesting if I write about it, which has to include interpreters and example programs and a reusable small library of functions
20:06:45 <b_jonas> (which in this case will be a library for 32-bit integer arithmetic)
20:07:03 <b_jonas> if you post about something, people will often read it when it's new, but are less likely to check back later as you edit it
20:07:15 <b_jonas> so it's useful to make it look good right as you post
20:12:21 <arseniiv> I think though, those more transient here are followed more attentively
20:13:55 <arseniiv> and people whose contribution is known and is more or less of some quality
20:14:49 <arseniiv> though e. g. I don’t track esobot’s announcements
20:16:57 <b_jonas> arseniiv: sure, and you have the advantage that this isn't one of those... bad quality posts that I don't even dare to call esolangs that you've surely found when you clicked on the "Random page" button on the esowiki
20:17:07 <b_jonas> you already start from an advantage
20:17:31 <b_jonas> I'm not trying to challenge your language or saying it's bad, just trying to steer you a bit to how you could improve the article
20:17:45 <b_jonas> or at least how I think you could improve it, but I'm not really the best authority in this
20:18:23 <arseniiv> b_jonas: contrary, I meant to encourage you to post something :)
20:19:22 <arseniiv> yeah, I think when the interpreter will be done, it would be much easier to write something new there
20:20:51 <arseniiv> I don’t think posting a more or less complete description and only then, additions, is that attention-unwise, I mean about your CS
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20:21:27 <arseniiv> for now I don’t even know what it’s about yet (though I bet it’s all there in the logs)
20:27:19 <b_jonas> arseniiv: well, what I said is only part of why I didn't post yet,
20:27:27 <b_jonas> and the rest of it are probably the bad reasons
20:27:48 <b_jonas> it's partly that I'm a bit jealous and don't want to give the idea away before I get a bit further and shape it to exactly the form I want
20:28:35 <b_jonas> and not everything is in the logs. some things are, but I was careful not to give too many spoilers, because the core idea is so simple that I'm still a little afraid that the same thing is already invented and out there somewhere
20:30:00 <b_jonas> also, there's a certain twist that is not really necessary for the language or even part of its core, but if I posted the language without it I'd sort of feel like it was cheating to add it later
20:30:05 <b_jonas> I can give away some of that twist:
20:30:47 <b_jonas> a while ago I posted in https://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas saying:
20:30:55 <b_jonas> > The classic textbook Aho, Ullman, The Theory of Parsing, Translation, and Compiling, (1972), explains in chapter 2.46 that there exist such context-free languages that have no unambiguous context-free grammars, and that such languages are called inherently ambiguous. After that, it states that “no inherently ambiguous programming languages have been devised yet”.
20:30:57 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:25: error: parse error on input ‘,’
20:31:01 <b_jonas> > This sounds like a challenge to find a programming language that is like that, or, failing that, create one.
20:31:58 <b_jonas> Anyway, I figured out that an easy way to make such a language is to take brainfuck, but allow an alternate syntax where <> are loops and [] move the head, but the whole program has to use one syntax or the other,
20:32:14 <b_jonas> this happens to result in an inherently ambiguous context-free grammar.
20:32:25 <b_jonas> But I REALLY don't want that language to exist, simple on account that it's a brainfuck-alike.
20:32:57 <b_jonas> But this could be done for a language other than brainfuck too, as long as its syntax is such that there's parenthesis that have to be nested properly, such as Underload.
20:33:13 <int-e> . o O ( We need a fancy Greek translation of "brainfuck" so that we can append -phobia and have some fun. )
20:33:56 <b_jonas> But even then, just allowing two different syntaxes where some punctuation marks are swapped is not very classy, it would remind me to those supposed esolangs that take their claim of esotericness only because the syntax is a bit weird, you know, like using - for addition and + for subtraction,.
20:34:24 <b_jonas> And that sort of thing is nice the first few times, such as for Intercal and Whitespace, but gets old quickly, so I don't want to do that either.
20:35:14 <b_jonas> But it turns out that there's a way how I can make this a bit more interesting rather than just swapping the punctuation characters, resulting in a similar extension of Consumer Society that has an inherently ambiguous context-free grammar.
20:36:12 <b_jonas> So for that, if you use the alternate bracket characters, not only the syntax changes, but the semantics of the language also changes in some interesting way. I can't really tell how exactly, because you'd need to know what Consumer Society is first.
20:36:41 <b_jonas> But if I pulled this trick later, it would feel worse than if it were there already as I post Consumer Society the first time.
20:37:00 <b_jonas> You can still use the simpler version of the language that doesn't have the alternate form, or the language that only has the alternate form if you want.
20:37:17 <b_jonas> In fact the alternate form happens to be the language I came up with first, Consumer Society is second, but so what.
20:38:22 <b_jonas> int-e: hmm, brain is "enkefalos" in greek
20:38:33 <b_jonas> you know, as in electro-encephalograph
20:40:09 <b_jonas> int-e: and it's not so much a fear as a hate or despisal
20:45:24 <int-e> b_jonas: but that's less fun
20:49:10 <b_jonas> I also hate BytePusher, which is a bit more irrational.
20:50:17 <b_jonas> I try to rationalize that by saying that I hate it because it doesn't have built-in arithmetic, even though every cpu should have (at least as much as 6502 has, without the undocumented rotate right instruction),
20:51:19 <b_jonas> but after making Consumer Society, which doesn't have built-in arithmetic, I can hardly keep saying that. my Consumer Society interpreter will have an optimized built-in version of the arithmetic library, which is optional to the language in the sense that I'll also write a version in pure portable Consumer Society,
20:51:37 <b_jonas> but then a BytePusher implementation could have a similar optimization too, so that's not a good excuse.
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22:02:05 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ubersketch * New user account
22:06:10 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=63769&oldid=63611 * Ubersketch * (+366) /* Introductions */
22:08:41 <HackEso> Random food recipes at https://gist.github.com/nylki/1efbaa36635956d35bcc
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22:47:55 <HackEso> 1/2:circle//A circle has no end. \ ladder jump//Ladder jump is the phenomenon that in practically all platformer games where the player character can climb up on ladders, it's faster to repeatedly jump and grab the ladder than to climb. \ wisdomme//wisdomme is a PDF that may be in the topic. boily is the one who compiles it. See `? wisdom.pdf \ xor//Xor is just addition of nimbers. \ butterfly//While some might think butterflies are descended fr
22:47:57 <HackEso> 2/2:om flies, that is a false entomology.
22:54:20 <int-e> b_jonas went through a obscure, but factually accurate, phase as a wisdom entry maker
23:02:58 <b_jonas> shachaf: hmm yeah, that's not a very good wisdom, at least if you take the majority school where wisdom entries should be confusing jokes, unlike ais523 who says that's not necessary. it's probably not a very good wisdom anyway.
23:03:05 <HackEso> A ladder is just a directed vertical bridge in the positive orientation.
23:03:21 <b_jonas> that one was suggested by me too, even if I wasn't the one to actually issue the learn command
23:03:49 <b_jonas> shachaf: because of the snakes and ladders game
23:03:54 <b_jonas> where ladders go up and snakes go down
23:04:01 <shachaf> But you can also climb down ladders.
23:04:45 <shachaf> Is it a game of zero skill?
23:04:47 <b_jonas> I do stand by wisdom/circle though
23:04:53 <int-e> some of the Keen games (4-6?) had poles that you could slide down
23:05:06 <b_jonas> shachaf: it was listed above
23:05:20 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, like the stereotypical fire department poles
23:05:22 <shachaf> Yes, I remembered that when I saw it.
23:05:36 <shachaf> A circle has no end, but that hardly characterizes circles. The real line also has no end.
23:05:39 <b_jonas> the xor one wasn't me, mine is wisdom/^
23:05:42 <int-e> and of course pole jumping is a phenomenon with those
23:05:49 <HackEso> ^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator.
23:05:57 <b_jonas> int-e: oh yeah, that might make for a better wisdom
23:06:08 <b_jonas> because it at least has a pun
23:06:33 <b_jonas> I do know that it's called "pole vaulting" in English, because English is weird
23:06:44 <int-e> oh you mean we could call it "pole vaulting" instead?
23:06:49 <shachaf> When I was young, I would play that game.
23:06:53 <shachaf> The one with snakes and ladders, I mean.
23:07:00 <b_jonas> int-e: no, I don't think that would work
23:07:18 <int-e> maybe there's some angle with magnetic poles
23:07:19 <b_jonas> would you ever call it vaulting when you jump straight up in a platformer?
23:07:47 <HackEso> /srv/hackeso-code/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: grEp: not found
23:07:51 <HackEso> amphiboily:Amphiboily is Franglish grammatical hambiguity, rewarded with a mapole. \ boily:“Sane Mapoleon” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, a Quintopial antipodist, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world kafkaesque. \ brontosaurus:A brontosaurus is an anci
23:07:56 <shachaf> In Snakes and Ladders, Is the expected number of moves to win monotonically decreasing with square number?
23:08:09 <b_jonas> don't we have a wisdom entry with one of the several stupid folk puns about poland and complex analysis?
23:08:11 <shachaf> If it isn't, there could be a small amount of strategy in going down some ladders, if that ws permitted.
23:08:27 <int-e> Oh I forgot the Capitalist bit.
23:09:15 <shachaf> Why do a bunch of people on the Internet say that they're against capitalism in vague ways?
23:09:26 <b_jonas> I think there are two such puns, one about Cauchy's dog peeing at every pole or something, and one about the integral of eastern europe
23:11:29 <b_jonas> nope, we do not in fact have those puns in wisdom. good.
23:12:24 <HackEso> Here on this channel we ascribe to a higher standard. See flagpole.
23:12:27 <HackEso> A flagpole is like a tadpole, but with a flag on top.
23:12:36 <HackEso> A tadpole is like a flagpole, but underwater, and also a tad shorter.
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23:13:33 <HackEso> A mapole is a thwackamacallit built from maple according to Canadian standards. The army version includes a spork, a corkscrew and a moose whistle. A regulatory mapole measures 6’ by 12 kg, ±0.5 inHg.
23:15:29 <shachaf> Well -- how much is 12 kg in '?
23:15:59 <shachaf> Apparently 12 kg is 2.92358877 × 10-26 feet.
23:16:41 <b_jonas> shachaf: 6' is approximately 0.17 kg
23:17:22 <shachaf> You're off by about 25 orders of magnitude.
23:17:28 <b_jonas> 6('³) is approximately 0.17 kg
23:18:01 <shachaf> How can you convert cubic feet to kg? That makes no sense.
23:18:09 <b_jonas> no wait, that's not right either
23:18:42 <b_jonas> 6('³) is approximately 170 kg
23:18:58 <b_jonas> shachaf: it's made of maple, which is a kind of wood, and for materials like that I just assume that the density is close to 1000
23:19:23 <b_jonas> just like how you convert drinks or other liquids or food that you buy in the store when they're labelled randomly either by mass or by volume
23:20:01 <int-e> shachaf: Nothing wrong with multiplying a weight by a height. If you divide by a Times Square, you get a new ton.
23:20:06 <b_jonas> the americans have this formalized by having a fluid ounce volume be close to an ounce weight for fizzie drinks,
23:20:20 <b_jonas> we have it formalized by having a liter volume be close to a kilogram weight for fizzie drinks
23:20:34 <b_jonas> it's a bit less for wood or alcohol actually, but not by much
23:20:45 <shachaf> int-e: Of course, but you can convert mass to height by multiplying by a constant.
23:21:27 <int-e> that's true as well, of course.
23:21:52 <b_jonas> I think ideally most of those food and drink you can buy should be labeled by mass rather than volume, but in practice it doesn't make much difference
23:21:58 <b_jonas> because of the other uncertainties involved
23:21:59 <int-e> "Most railroad track used for main line trains in the United States weighs at least 130 pounds per yard, or 43.33 pounds per foot."
23:22:17 <shachaf> The mass of the sun is approximately 1.5km, for example.
23:22:22 <b_jonas> you also have to do such conversions if you try to take numbers in food recipes seriously
23:23:42 <b_jonas> int-e: metal is different, that has a density between 6000 and 9000, except that aluminum, titanium, berillium and mithril have a 1/2 times weight modifier, and that gold and other precious metals have a 2* modifier
23:24:10 <int-e> tbh I don't know what shachaf did.
23:24:57 <b_jonas> (technically silver, lead, and mercury is in between the normal metals and precious metals, but you rarely need to know the density of those)
23:25:44 <b_jonas> these are just heuristics that I use, but heuristics are better than nothing
23:26:09 <b_jonas> shachaf: what is its Shwartzshield radius?
23:26:24 <b_jonas> what is its ... let me look it up
23:26:25 <int-e> Schwarzschild, I think.
23:26:32 <int-e> (German. Easy ;-) )
23:26:36 <shachaf> The sun? About 3km, twice the mass.
23:27:57 <int-e> . o O ( Intel needs to thread lightly. So... https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/c5nb01/amd_competitive_profile_where_we_go_toetotoe_why/ was good for at least one terrible pun so far. )
23:28:01 <b_jonas> int-e: schaschaf would know
23:28:16 <shachaf> Why would I know about German spellings?
23:28:25 <b_jonas> shachaf: not you, schaschaf
23:28:37 <b_jonas> or are you the same person?
23:28:38 <shachaf> Any word ending in "chaf" is referring to me.
23:28:54 <int-e> b_jonas: I tried to ask but all I got was "bah!"
23:28:57 <b_jonas> so that's like when I'm sometimes lob_jonas and sometimes wob_jonas?
23:29:26 <int-e> waste of brain, loss of brain?
23:29:58 <int-e> (it's not flattering but that's genuinely my default interpretation of "wob", can't be helped.)
23:30:54 <b_jonas> int-e: it's "wob" in the sense that it's used in https://www.xkcd.com/148/ , because that's when I'm using a wob-based irc client
23:31:16 <b_jonas> the "lob" came when I tried to manipulate fizzie's log formatter to color my name green
23:32:04 <b_jonas> but if those are the default associations, then I should consider changing the prefix
23:32:05 <int-e> b_jonas: Good to know, but I don't see how that changes a thing; it doesn't give any alternative meaning to "wob".
23:32:31 <shachaf> Oh, the mass of the sun is also approximate 5 microseconds.
23:33:02 <int-e> (wombat... waste of money, brains, and talent)
23:33:34 <int-e> shachaf: only for about 1/200 of a second.
23:34:07 <HackEso> EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time. Lie that corrupts earth you educated stupid fools.
23:34:35 <int-e> so how heavy is that cube and how long does its Schwarzschild radius take?
23:34:50 <int-e> I really don't think conveting units like that is in any way helpful.
23:34:59 <b_jonas> int-e: you'll have to consult the full website for that. there's only so much I could put in the two condensed wisdom entries.
23:35:05 <b_jonas> (the other is "wisdom/gene ray")
23:35:07 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_mass says that it's "frequently useful"
23:35:30 <shachaf> Natural units are the best.
23:35:43 <int-e> . o O ( "frequently" - we know of more than one example. )
23:35:58 <b_jonas> shachaf: yes, in the sense that the gravitational solar mass is useful because in our most precise astronomical measurements, the main term is the sun pulling everything towards it
23:36:30 <b_jonas> so it's a natural mass unit if you want to measure the gravitational mass of other astronomical objects
23:37:21 <b_jonas> and we know the gravitational mass of the sun pretty precisely, but no the inertial mass, because we only have like four or five digits of G, the gravitational constant, with the best measurements, so kilogram is *not* a good unit for gravitational masses
23:37:32 <b_jonas> (this wasn't obvious to me until David Madore explained on his blog)
23:37:43 <b_jonas> that's why we do need some unit for gravitational mass
23:38:40 <shachaf> I should learn how gravity works.
23:39:14 <b_jonas> and as proof that people actually think that, that NASA website thing where you can query a shitton of astronomical ephemeron data, that one offers you to format masses in the unit of your choice between solar mass and kg
23:39:41 <b_jonas> so the above means that the numbers in solar mass are more accurate
23:40:48 <b_jonas> hmm, actually we know six digits. that's quite impressive.
23:41:12 <b_jonas> is that a relative or an absolute figure?
23:42:31 <b_jonas> shachaf: if you consider general relativity as part of that, then you're up for a very difficult task
23:44:01 <b_jonas> so much that even physicists don't know some of the details, especially some things about very strong gravitational fields in black holes, whether time travel is possible by bending space-time using gravity and why not, and how general realtivity can be combined in any consistent way (let alone in the real world) with quantum mechanics
23:44:07 <lambdabot> LOWI 272320Z AUTO VRB03KT 9999 FEW050 24/19 Q1022
23:44:14 <lambdabot> KOAK 272253Z 28017KT 10SM FEW020 BKN180 BKN200 22/12 A3008 RMK AO2 SLP187 T02220117
23:44:22 <b_jonas> also I'm not a physicists, so some of that could be wrong
23:44:54 <b_jonas> I just go by the impression I get from the popular descriptions by David Madore and John Baez
23:45:46 <b_jonas> also there are a lot of things that phyisicists do know about general relativity, but it's complicated in a mathematical way
23:45:58 <b_jonas> you need some sort of fancy tensor calculus stuff to understand it
23:46:06 <HackEso> general relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:46:09 <HackEso> special relativity? ¯\(°_o)/¯
23:46:45 <shachaf> `` doag | grep -i relativity
23:46:48 <HackEso> 11672:2018-12-11 <oerjän> slwd tanebvention//s;, special relativity;; \ 9258:2016-10-13 <shachäf> slwd tanebvention//s#the triverse#special relativity# \ 598:2012-07-19 <elliott__̈_> addquote <itidus21> elliott___: we have been calling a book new for 2000 years and it took einstein to figure out relativity
23:47:26 <HackEso> 769) <itidus21> elliott___: we have been calling a book new for 2000 years and it took einstein to figure out relativity