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04:16:30 <esowiki> [[The Program Is Mostly Ignored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=67010&oldid=67002 * Oerjan * (-240) /* Implementation of the modified version in 2-Echo Tag */ I may be mistaken due to being tired, but I *think* the miscounting you were suspecting is that the bolding step shouldn't be there at all.
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08:03:48 <Sgeo_> I am vaguely trying to relearn MUSHcode. Protip: Do not learn MUSHcode
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14:40:22 <HackEso> The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Gareen Shergyle, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
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21:25:24 <b_jonas> helloerjan. I was just looking at wisdom/\`words , set in 2017-01. I wonder if it's time to revise it
21:26:51 <arseniiv> `words don’t come easy to me; what does it ever mean?
21:26:53 <HackEso> Argument "donâM-\0M-^Yt" isn't numeric in int at /hackenv/bin/words line 148.
21:28:58 <b_jonas> hmm, what is Gölrika Rosenskild supposed to represent? I should check that in the logs because it's not obvious
21:36:33 <Sgeo__> u(my_custom_function, arg1)
21:40:32 <b_jonas> oerjan: it turns out that Kazal László has a song that has a lot of believable but fake Hungarian family names. my favourite is "Görkovács", which sounds quite real, yet when I did an internet search, the only results I found were that one song.
21:41:32 <b_jonas> a lot of the names sound like they're of jewish or german origin, but you need at least some of those to make the spread realistic, and apparently they're easier to invent
21:42:16 <b_jonas> it also has a few easy ones like "G. Nagy" where "Nagy" is the single most common family name, and double names with an initial aren't too rare, but there are so many combinations that it's not hard to find ones that haven't been used yet
21:43:25 <b_jonas> the story of the song is that the first person narrator wants to change his family name because he doesn't like the name Görény, and an officer suggests a list of possibilities to him from a phonebook
21:44:31 <b_jonas> so there's a list of close to 50 family names, a few of which are real by accident
21:44:55 <b_jonas> of course, all this doesn't help the much harder problem of coming up with a fake but plausible Hungarian given name
21:52:46 <b_jonas> both Gölrika Rosenskild and Zwübert von Pfölliger look like german names to me
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21:59:26 <fizzie> While it's clearly Germanic more generally, Gölrika Rosenskild looks fake-Swedish to me. (Ulrika is a reasonably common Swedish first name.)
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22:02:13 * oerjan vaguely wonders if b_jonas is biased to consider the hungarian fake names less plausible than the others simply because he knows the language better
22:02:13 <fizzie> My Swedish teacher in I-forget-what-grade had the surname Rosenberg.
22:02:54 <b_jonas> Pügmalión is a male name from classical mythology, so it could be used as a Hungarian given name easily, but isn't yet used
22:02:58 <oerjan> Rosensköld is genuine btw
22:03:02 <fizzie> FWIW, I definitely consider "Myyntti Raatalla" less plausible than the others for precisely that reason.
22:03:41 <b_jonas> oerjan: certainly, although I did say that I find Zwübert von Pfölliger over the top. but I also can't really help you find plausible names in other languages,
22:04:05 <HackEso> The `words dictionary framework was designed by Klens Hålgar Oslekk, Upert T. Noffrey, Guiston Degraîme, Myyntti Raatalla, Gölrika Rosenskild, Zwübert von Pfölliger, Waslomir Stronderowich, Győrvan Sárbik, Gareen Shergyle, Fnörður Hljófsson, and Pastronella Gattrovezzi.
22:04:16 <oerjan> well what i mean is that they're not _meant_ to look that plausible.
22:05:01 <b_jonas> except that Pedrillo is a nice italian male name that everyone knows from the Mozart opera and yet is barely used in the real world
22:06:04 <b_jonas> oerjan: and yes, I said that I recognize fake Hungarian given names because almost everyone wears either common given names or ones that don't look Hungarian
22:06:46 <b_jonas> sure, they have to look somewhat over the top to be recognizably from a certain language
22:07:08 <b_jonas> otherwise we could just have ten Annas
22:07:19 <b_jonas> oh wait, you want a male one
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22:08:09 <oerjan> the conspiracy of Daves is clearly involved
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22:09:09 <b_jonas> no, not Daves. Dave sounds like an american name
22:10:17 <fizzie> "Taavetti" is a Finnish form of David, though I think it's no longer really in use.
22:10:18 <b_jonas> I wonder if "Göndör" would work as a given name
22:10:41 <oerjan> Gömböc should get things rolling
22:11:19 <fizzie> Denethör, Steward of Göndör.
22:11:37 <b_jonas> I was also thinking of flower names, because that's an easy way to invent new names
22:11:46 <fizzie> Now you're just taking Frodo's advice.
22:12:09 <b_jonas> "Szulák" was suggested, but the problem is that it's already a family name
22:13:29 <fizzie> Welp, still 661 Taavettis born since 2000. But at least it's down from the 1525 born in the years 1900-1919.
22:13:55 <fizzie> (I think the statistics count all first names, I strongly suspect many of these are middle names.)
22:14:21 <b_jonas> the statistics for hungary gives counts for first and second given names separately
22:14:25 <oerjan> Arnør could work in norwegian
22:14:29 <b_jonas> but their order is mostly the same
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22:16:23 <b_jonas> there are a few outliers: Magdolna is apparently common as a second given name, perhaps because of a famous Mária Magdolna
22:17:27 <b_jonas> I wonder how many people have the same given name twice
22:17:50 <fizzie> For Finnish, I think there's a general bias of second names being more traditional than first names, maybe because people often give names already existing in the family tree as second (or third) names.
22:18:09 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, that does happen, giving a second given name from family
22:22:20 <b_jonas> wow, on the list of most common male given names given to newborns in 2018 in Hungary, the 6th is Noel. That's weird. Must be some new fashion.
22:23:15 <fizzie> They used to have a per-year thing, but it's "removed for privacy reasons", so now I can only see decades.
22:24:00 <b_jonas> (Bence is still holding strong in first place, despite that all the other top ones keep changing quickly.)
22:24:26 <fizzie> There's an "Oliver" as #6 for male names in 2010-2019, I'm pretty sure that's some sort of a fashion too.
22:24:59 <b_jonas> you can tell by comparing to the statistics of given names among living people
22:25:33 <fizzie> Surprisingly enough, top three are Juhani, Johannes and Mikael, which is a pretty old-fashioned triplet.
22:26:30 <fizzie> Top three for male names given to people 2010-2019, I assume mostly babies born then.
22:26:42 <fizzie> It's not super-clear what the table means, though.
22:27:23 <b_jonas> I guess if you average out over ten years, the fresh fashion ones fall lower and the always popular traditional names climb to top
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23:29:07 <moonheart08> Took a look at the esoteric programming language on wikipedia..
23:44:06 <lambdabot> ENVA 102250Z 08004KT 9999 FEW025 SCT035 BKN045 M04/M09 Q1014 RMK WIND 670FT 09007KT
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