←2020-01-01 2020-01-02 2020-01-03→ ↑2020 ↑all
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01:46:14 <zzo38> They can speak English too, although perhaps not as well as human speeching English, since English is a human speech. (Also humans speeching their language won't as well either)
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02:19:12 <oerjan> huh HackEso fell off fungot's ignore list?
02:19:12 <fungot> oerjan: yea. i was talking about here, habsheim air show
02:20:03 <oerjan> oh well it seems the ZWSP stops it
02:20:13 <oerjan> `echo fungot
02:20:14 <fungot> oerjan: smoz, you still you don't feature charlie in your videos more, and several others convicted of man slaughter
02:20:18 <HackEso> fungot
02:20:27 <oerjan> apparently has been fixed
02:20:58 <oerjan> ^style ct
02:20:58 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
02:41:56 <oerjan> <b_jonas> it's a New Year tradition to watch it live <-- he's probably exempt from being austrian
02:42:45 <oerjan> i'm exempt from not watching tv and being asleep
02:44:20 <oerjan> although i do remember it. as well as the ski jumps in garmish-partenkirchen, do they still do that?
02:44:35 <oerjan> *+c
02:44:56 <oerjan> apparently.
02:49:57 <kmc> fungot: happy new year
02:49:57 <fungot> kmc: but, we are far outnumbered! okay! no...! help!
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03:06:33 <oerjan> <kingoffrance> arguably anything in latin probably sounds more serious <-- itym "QVIDQVID LATINE DICTVM SIT, ALTVM VIDETVR" hth
03:15:04 <kmc> ++
03:17:27 <esowiki> [[Tier]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68603 * BN * (+10377) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |paradigms=Imperative |author=[[User:BN]] |name=Tier |year=[[:Category:2020]] |typesys= |memsys=stack-based |class=:Category:Turing complete|Turing comple..."
03:19:22 <zzo38> I think it should be Latin if you are writing in Latin, and if you are making up new words in English then probably it should be English instead (unless there are no suitable word, perhaps)
03:23:44 <zzo38> Of course, there are a lot of Latin words in English anyways, but English has its own words, too.
03:24:57 <esowiki> [[User:BN]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68604 * BN * (+96) Created page with "Hello there. Hi my name is Brian, and I created the [[Tier]] programming language, check it out!"
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03:29:08 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68605&oldid=68598 * BN * (+11)
03:29:51 <esowiki> [[Tier]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68606&oldid=68603 * BN * (+5)
03:30:35 <zzo38> (There are words from many language used in English. And it seems much more rarely, some people just make up a word from nothing, perhaps "cromulent" is such thing)
03:30:42 <zzo38> (and it is listed in Wiktionary)
03:32:32 <kmc> yes, it was made up to sound like a real word but is "intentionally morphologically opaque"
03:33:13 <kmc> unlike "embiggen" which is a humorous example of a standard construction
03:34:48 <esowiki> [[Tier]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68607&oldid=68606 * BN * (+18)
03:35:08 <kmc> there are various attempts to keep Latin up to date and usable in the modern world
03:35:23 <kmc> and even a Vicipaedia: https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicipaedia:Pagina_prima
03:35:52 <zzo38> Yes, I think it is not so bad that you can continue to read/write Latin.
03:36:44 * kmc clicks "Pagina fortuita" a few times
03:37:02 <kmc> zzo38: it seems good to me, and definitely esoteric
03:38:40 <kmc> I am interested in mycology, which involves learning a lot of species names
03:38:48 <kmc> so it is nice to know a few latin words
03:39:12 <zzo38> Yes, it is good to learn many things, Latin and otherwise.
03:39:37 <kmc> one complication is that they keep moving the fungi around to different genera
03:39:50 <kmc> as DNA testing reveals that two things thought to be closely related aren't really, or vice versa
03:39:59 <kmc> so a lot of mushrooms have got many different historical names
03:41:24 <zzo38> Yes, I think I read about that
03:42:02 <kmc> it's only recently that DNA sequencing has become cheap enough to sequence lots of obscure mushrooms that aren't of direct importance to humanity
03:42:12 <kmc> zzo38: do you like mushrooms? looking for them can be fun
03:42:41 <zzo38> I don't like to eat mushrooms, but otherwise neutral
03:42:52 <kmc> I have been looking around the city for mushrooms every day
03:43:00 <kmc> i always find plenty of different kinds
03:43:09 <kmc> although rarely ones which are worth eating
03:43:22 <kmc> my wife made some yellow dye for wool and silk out of mushrooms
03:47:51 <zzo38> Do you know much of linguistics of non-human physiology?
03:53:09 <oerjan> . o O ( it's on the tip of my tongues )
03:59:47 <kingoffrance> i know nothing of mushrooms, but i chop them up and put in soup, on sandwiches, etc. i am pro-mushroom despite being a noob
04:00:26 <kingoffrance> i of course just purchase at store, i dont go hunting
04:01:08 <kingoffrance> i dont think i would eat them alone though
04:15:48 <kingoffrance> pizza of course
04:16:06 <kmc> zzo38: no
04:16:26 <zzo38> OK
04:16:29 <kmc> mushrooms are good on pizza
04:16:32 <kmc> or pasta
04:16:35 <kmc> or lots of other things
04:16:43 <kmc> i had an amazing mushroom risotto last weekend
04:16:50 <kmc> at a fancy french place my girlfriend took me to
04:18:33 <kmc> i don't eat mushrooms raw though
04:18:35 <kmc> it's not safe
04:19:01 <kmc> even for common button mushrooms from the store it's said to cause increased risk of cancer (but what isn't)
04:19:11 <kmc> more to the point though the taste and texture is nasty when they are not cooked
04:19:29 <kmc> a good way to cook mushrooms is to slice them, heat them in a dry pan to get rid of some of the water, then sautee them in butter
04:34:13 <imode-ruby> I see you saw the same video I did today lmao.
04:34:25 <imode-ruby> use water to sautee them.
04:36:32 <kmc> did I?
04:36:41 <kmc> i learned that from Mushrooms Demystified
04:36:46 <kmc> a book by David Arora
04:37:08 <kmc> and i'm not sure that sauteeing things in water is possible
04:37:08 <imode-ruby> america's test kitchen has a video about cooking mushrooms.
04:37:16 <kmc> cool
04:37:28 <imode-ruby> got recommended to me.
04:37:45 <imode-ruby> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLPLCmwBLBY this one.
05:16:22 <kmc> here's another word which sounds like a Simpsons joke, but it's actually from the title of an ancient Roman political satire https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pumpkinification
05:19:18 <int-e> fungot: Do you think 13 barrels are possible?
05:19:18 <fungot> int-e: you! take! we find!
05:19:27 <int-e> ^style
05:19:27 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube
05:19:38 <int-e> ^style ct
05:19:38 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
05:20:56 <int-e> (context is http://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/January2020.html )
07:00:56 <zzo38> I have heard of a computer with speech once misinterpreted someone's middle initial as a number. Their middle initial was M; do any kings or popes or someone else using numbers in this way have that many?
07:03:05 <kingoffrance> fungot: why cant i play ct as spekkio? what kind of open-ended multiple endings gameplay is that?
07:03:05 <fungot> kingoffrance: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes. no.
07:04:08 <int-e> https://twitter.com/OtherDanOBrien/status/1210741711313354752 is cool
07:07:29 <kingoffrance> well, he's considering it
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07:50:08 <esowiki> [[If(j)invert()if(l)change()if(q)input()if(t)output(x);]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68608&oldid=63873 * YamTokTpaFa * (+24)
07:51:39 <esowiki> [[Talk:If(j)invert()if(l)change()if(q)input()if(t)output(x);]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68609&oldid=39434 * YamTokTpaFa * (+42) +Unsigned
07:52:38 <esowiki> [[AmBored]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68610&oldid=54826 * YamTokTpaFa * (+59) WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU CATEGORIZE AT ALL!
07:53:03 <esowiki> [[Warp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68611&oldid=42552 * YamTokTpaFa * (+24)
07:54:36 <esowiki> [[BitP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68612&oldid=52503 * YamTokTpaFa * (+49)
07:55:03 <esowiki> [[EGSHEL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68613&oldid=44804 * YamTokTpaFa * (+55)
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08:39:08 <zzo38> All The Tropes says the official motto of Hells Angels is "When we do right, nobody remembers. When we do wrong, nobody forgets." However, I could not find that on Wikipedia or elsewhere. Do you know if it is true or not?
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08:51:43 <myname> maybe they did right
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11:38:26 <esowiki> [[Comp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68614 * Hex96 * (+1334) Created page with "comp is an esolang by [[User:Hex96|Hex]]. it is stack based. ==commands== <pre> # print the top value on the stack in ascii. print the top value on the stack as a number...."
11:38:49 <esowiki> [[User:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68615&oldid=68503 * Hex96 * (+11) /* List of esolangs */
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12:16:28 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68616&oldid=68605 * Hex96 * (+11) /* C */
12:19:42 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68617&oldid=68581 * Hex96 * (+105) /* Examples */
12:20:18 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68618&oldid=68617 * Hex96 * (+18)
12:20:41 <esowiki> [[Langlang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68619&oldid=68618 * Hex96 * (+7)
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14:03:08 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68620&oldid=68614 * A * (+89) WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU CATEGORIZE AT ALL!
14:11:19 <kspalaiologos> he's back
14:11:21 <kspalaiologos> lmao
14:11:45 <myname> he always will be, i guess
14:12:04 <myname> i don't understand why he's so destructive
14:20:05 <int-e> I'm imagining a grumpy old man of 13 years of age... :)
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14:26:33 <wib_jonas> int-e: he's a BBC Norvegian village
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15:18:51 <wib_jonas> fizzie: in HackEso, can you please install the packages {unzip, zip, p7zip} so we can extract compressed archives more easily? this caused us some difficulty at https://esolangs.org/logs/2019-07.html#lVmb , so those utils would help. and they're not big.
15:19:42 <wib_jonas> `? interps
15:19:43 <wib_jonas> `? ibin
15:19:43 <HackEso> interps? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:19:45 <HackEso> ibin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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15:20:49 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: /hackenv/interps also has some directories in which interpreter stuff are installed, so you can create a directory there too rather than lib if you prefer
15:21:28 <kspalaiologos> mkay
15:21:30 <kspalaiologos> wait
15:21:36 <kspalaiologos> ``` ls /hackenv/lib/kps
15:21:38 <HackEso> bconv \ bfasm \ bfi \ bfi-rle \ bfintd \ bfmake \ bfpp \ derle.pl \ labels.pl \ strip.pl
15:21:48 <wib_jonas> I didn't remember this a few days ago when you asked for a directory, because lib and share are the more standard unixy thing, whereas interps was some old style HackEgo EgoBot emulation thing
15:22:03 <kspalaiologos> ``` cp /hackenv/lib/kps/bfi /hackenv/interps/
15:22:12 <kspalaiologos> now
15:22:14 <HackEso> No output.
15:22:17 <kspalaiologos> how do you use it
15:22:19 <kspalaiologos> `bfi
15:22:20 <HackEso> Usage: bfi src.b
15:22:28 <kspalaiologos> not surprised
15:22:36 <kspalaiologos> `ls
15:22:36 <HackEso> asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ just \ karma \ le \ output.b \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh \ what.tar.gz
15:22:39 <kspalaiologos> `bfi output.b
15:22:40 <HackEso> Hello World!
15:22:43 <kspalaiologos> c00l
15:23:22 <fizzie> `` which zip; which unzip; which p7zip
15:23:23 <HackEso> ​/usr/bin/zip \ /usr/bin/unzip \ /usr/bin/p7zip
15:23:24 <fizzie> wib_jonas: Done.
15:23:33 <wib_jonas> thanks
15:25:33 <wib_jonas> fizzie: oops, it seems the 7z utility is in the p7zip-full package. debian is confusing with its nice fine-grained packages.
15:26:09 <wib_jonas> I thought p7zip-full was the GUI component -- nope
15:26:22 <fizzie> Right. It was on the recommended list. Added that as well.
15:26:28 <wib_jonas> thanks
15:26:30 <wib_jonas> ``` 7z
15:26:31 <HackEso> ​ \ 7-Zip [64] 16.02 : Copyright (c) 1999-2016 Igor Pavlov : 2016-05-21 \ p7zip Version 16.02 (locale=C,Utf16=off,HugeFiles=on,64 bits,1 CPU QEMU Virtual CPU version 2.1.3 (623),ASM) \ \ Usage: 7z <command> [<switches>...] <archive_name> [<file_names>...] \ [<@listfiles...>] \ \ <Commands> \ a : Add files to archive \ b : Benchmark \ d : Delete files from archive \ e : Extract files from archive (without using directory name
15:26:39 <wib_jonas> unzip is the most important, but this can help
15:26:56 <wib_jonas> ``` 7z l asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz
15:26:57 <HackEso> ​ \ 7-Zip [64] 16.02 : Copyright (c) 1999-2016 Igor Pavlov : 2016-05-21 \ p7zip Version 16.02 (locale=C,Utf16=off,HugeFiles=on,64 bits,1 CPU QEMU Virtual CPU version 2.1.3 (623),ASM) \ \ Scanning the drive for archives: \ 1 file, 41301 bytes (41 KiB) \ \ Listing archive: asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ \ -- \ Path = asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ Type = gzip \ Headers Size = 10 \ \ Date Time Attr Size Compressed Name \ -----------------
15:27:11 <wib_jonas> ``` 7z l asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz | paste
15:27:12 <HackEso> https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.4903
15:27:34 <wib_jonas> ``` rm -v /hackenv/tmp/paste/paste.4903
15:27:35 <HackEso> removed '/hackenv/tmp/paste/paste.4903'
15:27:54 <fizzie> As for interps, it's kind of related to the whole `! / ibin thing, though of course in the end it's just a directory like any other. The short version of that story is, /hackenv/bin/! runs commands from /hackenv/ibin/*, which typically (but not always) use binaries stored in directories under /hackenv/interps/*.
15:28:16 <wib_jonas> `? !
15:28:18 <HackEso> ​! is a syntax used in Haskell and Prolog for solving evaluation order problems.
15:28:20 <wib_jonas> `? `!
15:28:21 <HackEso> ​`! emulates the ! command of our former bot EgoBot. You write `! then the name of the language then a program, and it runs the program you give and returns the result. We used to use it to test out esoprograms in-channel all the time, but the set of included esolangs is fairly old now and so it's rarely used.
15:28:46 <fizzie> Not sure how expected it would be for new language interpreters to integrate with `!.
15:29:21 <fizzie> `` ls ../ibin
15:29:22 <HackEso> 1l \ 2l \ 7 \ adjust \ asm \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ bf_txtgen \ boolfuck \ brachylog \ c \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ dimensifuck \ forth \ glass \ glypho \ haskell \ help \ java \ k \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ lua \ malbolge \ pbrain \ perl \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ sh \ slashes \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda \ whirl
15:29:49 <fizzie> Chances are not all of those even work.
15:29:51 <wib_jonas> fizzie: after I suggested that to kspalaiologos, someone explained that it wouldn't be appropriate because bfasm isn't an interpreter, it compiles a language to brainfuck and gives brainfuck source code as output
15:30:14 <wib_jonas> so only that wrapper that executes the resulting bf code should be integrated there
15:30:40 <kspalaiologos> yes.
15:30:43 <kspalaiologos> that's right.
15:30:55 <kspalaiologos> but one could wire them up so assembly code is directly ran
15:31:16 <kspalaiologos> gimme a moment
15:31:19 <fizzie> Well, that wrapper would be in ibin, but all the underlying machinery can well be under interps. If you wanted to integrate with `!, anyway. Whether that makes sense is subjective.
15:31:39 <kspalaiologos> I don't seem to get what you're sying
15:31:42 <kspalaiologos> what's `!?
15:31:53 <kspalaiologos> `! bfi
15:31:54 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/bfi: No such file or directory
15:31:59 <kspalaiologos> ok I know
15:32:59 <wib_jonas> https://esolangs.org/wiki/HackEso#Interpreters explains it... nope, it doesn't
15:33:08 <kspalaiologos> ``` cat <<<"asmbf && bfi /hackenv/tmp/output.b && rm -f /hackenv/tmp/output.b" > /hackenv/ibin/asmbf
15:33:10 <HackEso> No output.
15:33:21 <kspalaiologos> `! asmbf out .0
15:33:22 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/asmbf: Permission denied \ /hackenv/bin/!: line 4: exec: /hackenv/ibin/asmbf: cannot execute: Permission denied
15:33:27 <kspalaiologos> bruh
15:33:38 <kspalaiologos> ``` chmod +x /hackenv/ibin/asmbf
15:33:41 <HackEso> No output.
15:33:42 <kspalaiologos> `! asmbf out .0
15:33:44 <HackEso> Usage: bfi src.b
15:33:49 <kspalaiologos> doesn
15:33:51 <kspalaiologos> 't seem to work
15:34:03 <wib_jonas> it's all ancient history, `! started as emulating EgoBot's interpreters when HackEgo was introduced, but all that was before I came here
15:36:53 <kspalaiologos> why ain't it working
15:36:55 <kspalaiologos> `ls
15:36:56 <HackEso> asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ just \ karma \ le \ output.b \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh \ what.tar.gz
15:37:01 <kspalaiologos> there clearly is output.b
15:37:04 <kspalaiologos> `cwd
15:37:06 <HackEso> cwd? No such file or directory
15:37:07 <kspalaiologos> `cd
15:37:08 <HackEso> cd? No such file or directory
15:37:21 <kspalaiologos> `pwd
15:37:22 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/tmp
15:37:26 <kspalaiologos> yep
15:37:42 <kspalaiologos> ``` cat <<<"asmbf && bfi output.b && rm -f output.b" > /hackenv/ibin/asmbf
15:37:45 <HackEso> No output.
15:37:48 <kspalaiologos> (ugly shit but should work)
15:37:53 <kspalaiologos> `! asmbf out .0
15:37:55 <HackEso> No output.
15:37:58 <kspalaiologos> ?
15:38:03 <kspalaiologos> ``` ls
15:38:09 <HackEso> asmbf-1.2.6.tar.gz \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bfi \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ just \ karma \ le \ paste \ program \ spline \ spout \ test \ test.sh \ what.tar.gz
15:38:19 <kspalaiologos> ``` cat <<<"asmbf && bfi output.b" > /hackenv/ibin/asmbf
15:38:21 <HackEso> No output.
15:38:23 <kspalaiologos> `! asmbf out .0
15:38:24 <HackEso> No output.
15:38:51 <kspalaiologos> `bfi output.b
15:38:52 <HackEso> No output.
15:38:55 <kspalaiologos> now i'm confused
15:38:58 <kspalaiologos> `cat output.b
15:38:59 <HackEso> ​+>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
15:39:05 <kspalaiologos> whoa, what
15:39:21 <kspalaiologos> `! asmbf "out .0"
15:39:22 <HackEso> No output.
15:39:30 <kspalaiologos> how do you use this `!?
15:39:32 <kspalaiologos> `?!
15:39:33 <HackEso> ​?!? No such file or directory
15:39:35 <kspalaiologos> `? !
15:39:36 <HackEso> ​! is a syntax used in Haskell and Prolog for solving evaluation order problems.
15:40:08 <fizzie> `! befunge 0"siht ekil">:#,_@
15:40:14 <HackEso> like this
15:41:39 <fizzie> I mean, `! itself literally just runs a binary from ibin. But mostly the assumption is for that to interpret the contents of its argument in some language or another.
15:41:54 <kspalaiologos> I
15:41:56 <kspalaiologos> don't get it
15:41:56 <fizzie> You don't *need* to integrate with `!, as the help text mentions, it's kind of stale now.
15:42:12 <kspalaiologos> why doesnt it work though
15:42:13 <kspalaiologos> look
15:42:21 <fizzie> What you put in ibin/asmbf should work as far as the wrapper goes.
15:42:21 <kspalaiologos> ``` asmbf out .0
15:42:23 <HackEso> No output.
15:42:26 <kspalaiologos> ``` bfi output.b
15:42:27 <HackEso> 0
15:42:29 <kspalaiologos> it should work
15:42:30 <kspalaiologos> but it doesnt
15:43:40 <fizzie> `` asmbf 'out .0'; cat output.b
15:43:42 <HackEso> ​+>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]>>>>>>[-]>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.[-]<<<<<<]<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
15:43:45 <fizzie> `` \! 'asmbf out .0'; cat output.b
15:43:47 <HackEso> ​+>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
15:43:53 <wib_jonas> `? `!
15:43:54 <fizzie> Hm, well, that's kind of odd.
15:43:55 <HackEso> ​`! emulates the ! command of our former bot EgoBot. You write `! then the name of the language then a program, and it runs the program you give and returns the result. We used to use it to test out esoprograms in-channel all the time, but the set of included esolangs is fairly old now and so it's rarely used.
15:44:08 <fizzie> Oh, your wrapper just executes "asmbf" with no arguments.
15:44:17 <fizzie> That's why it doesn't work.
15:44:32 <fizzie> There's nothing in ibin/asmbf to use its command line for anything.
15:44:52 <fizzie> `sled /hackenv/ibin/asmbf//s|asmbf|asmbf "$@"|
15:44:55 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/ibin/asmbf//asmbf "$@" && bfi output.b
15:45:01 <fizzie> `` \! 'asmbf out .0'; cat output.b
15:45:04 <HackEso> 0+>+[<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]>>>>>>[-]>++++++[<++++++++>-]<.[-]<<<<<<]<<<[>>+>+<<<-]>>[<<+>>-]>[[-]<<<[-]>[-]>>]<<]
15:45:11 <fizzie> `! asmbf out .0
15:45:12 <HackEso> 0
15:45:15 <fizzie> There you go.
15:46:12 <kspalaiologos> ah
15:46:15 <kspalaiologos> so it takes input from args
15:46:19 <kspalaiologos> not stdin as I expected
15:46:19 <kspalaiologos> fine
15:47:05 <wib_jonas> there's some sort of wrapper invoked by many of the interpreters in ibin that bridge that
15:47:13 <wib_jonas> it's a set of arcane shell scripts
15:47:35 <kspalaiologos> which one
15:47:43 <fizzie> Yes, there's a canonical set of helper shell functions in /hackenv/lib/interp that many ibin/* interpreters use to turn the arguments into either stdin or a file.
15:47:46 <kspalaiologos> I want to see the arcane
15:47:51 <fizzie> Depending on what the underlying interpreter wants.
15:48:01 <kspalaiologos> ``` ls /hackenv/lib/interp
15:48:04 <fizzie> But of course in your case bin/asmbf wants command-line arguments too, so those aren't useful.
15:48:08 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/lib/interp
15:48:14 <kspalaiologos> helpful as heck
15:48:16 <fizzie> It's just one file they all source, https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/file/tip/lib/interp
15:48:20 <kspalaiologos> hackeso pls
15:48:32 <wib_jonas> ``` /bin/ls -abF /hackenv/ibin
15:48:33 <HackEso> ​./ \ ../ \ 1l* \ 2l* \ 7* \ adjust* \ asm* \ asmbf* \ axo* \ bch* \ befunge* \ befunge98* \ bf* \ bf16@ \ bf32@ \ bf8@ \ bf_txtgen* \ boolfuck* \ brachylog* \ c* \ cintercal* \ clcintercal* \ cxx* \ dimensifuck* \ forth* \ glass* \ glypho* \ haskell* \ help* \ java* \ k* \ kipple* \ lambda* \ lazyk* \ linguine* \ lua* \ malbolge* \ pbrain* \ perl* \ qbf* \ rail* \ rhotor* \ sadol* \ sceql* \ sh* \ slashes* \ trigger* \ udage01* \ underload*
15:48:40 <wib_jonas> choose one of those
15:48:50 <kspalaiologos> ah!
15:48:54 <kspalaiologos> hm so maybe malbolge
15:49:07 <kspalaiologos> ``` at /hackenv/ibin/malbolge
15:49:07 <wib_jonas> ``` cat /hackenv/ibin/malbolge
15:49:08 <HackEso> bash: at: command not found
15:49:08 <HackEso> ​#!/bin/sh \ . ${HACKENV-/hackenv}/lib/interp \ interp_file ${HACKENV-/hackenv}/interps/malbolge/malbolge.bin
15:49:16 <kspalaiologos> .bin?
15:49:25 <kspalaiologos> who would give an elf binary this extension
15:49:38 <kspalaiologos> but it's interesting nonetheless
15:49:39 <fizzie> Why not? It's a binary.
15:49:51 <kspalaiologos> .bin or .hex is usually a flat binary
15:50:05 <kspalaiologos> while elf isn't quite a flat executable
15:50:14 <fizzie> It's all a matter of convention.
15:50:19 <kspalaiologos> possibly
15:50:30 <fizzie> `` ls /hackenv/interps/befunge # as well
15:50:31 <HackEso> bef.bin \ bef.c \ USED_VERSION
15:50:47 <wib_jonas> no, a flat binary uses the extension .com
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15:51:38 <kspalaiologos> I would disagree
15:51:46 <kspalaiologos> not only the .com extension
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17:47:23 <kspalaiologos> can we change the featured language?
17:47:37 <kspalaiologos> maybe pick another one randomly from given pool
17:47:44 <kspalaiologos> of submissions/candidates
17:47:45 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68621 * Star651 * (+4182) Created page with "<pre> Animosian is a scripting language invented by [[User:Star651]] on January 2, 2020, after receiving a high-tech vision in a dream in 2004 or 2005, realizing that such a l..."
17:48:14 <esowiki> [[Animosian]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68622&oldid=68621 * Star651 * (+41)
17:49:29 <fizzie> That's already how it works. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Featured_languages/Candidates documents the process.
17:50:12 <fizzie> (The "Every so often" is measured in years, though.)
17:50:24 <kspalaiologos> https://esolangs.org/wiki/GolfSpace
17:50:29 <kspalaiologos> A leftover?
17:55:27 <fizzie> I only cleaned up the recently created ones, that didn't even attempt to make a joke. There's a lot of A contributions left.
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17:59:12 <kspalaiologos> can we end the regin of Thue?
17:59:14 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.7).
18:00:30 <fizzie> I don't know, it's been featured for such a short time so far.
18:01:15 <fizzie> We featured brainfuck from 2013 to 2019.
18:04:20 <fizzie> My personal preference is still to go through the Befunge article with a fine-toothed comb and then feature that, but I never seem to get around to it. (Though the article wasn't as unpolished as I remembered it being, last I checked.)
18:08:41 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68623&oldid=66676 * B jonas * (+61) /* List of candidates */ unpropose Befunge, propose Nopfunge
18:08:53 <b_jonas> fizzie: ah yes, good thing you mention it
18:09:17 <b_jonas> there
18:09:42 <b_jonas> the Underload article is in a good state, so that might be the most solid candidate
18:11:32 <fizzie> Huh, I thought we had already featured Underload, but apparently not.
18:12:08 -!- FreeFull has joined.
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18:15:30 <fizzie> It's a solid choice, and maybe a new decade is a good excuse for a new featured language.
18:16:39 -!- lambdabot has joined.
18:17:30 <b_jonas> nah, we should probably wait until Thue has been featured for a year
18:24:47 -!- sleepnap has joined.
18:25:21 <b_jonas> I wonder if I should leave Befunge on the candidates page, but without my endorsement, just for the feature paragraph
18:27:45 <b_jonas> I think I will, and if you don't like it, you can just revert the page
18:27:54 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68624&oldid=68491 * BN * (+40)
18:28:30 <kspalaiologos> nopfunge is interesting
18:29:21 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68625&oldid=68623 * B jonas * (+823)
18:29:35 <b_jonas> yeah
18:29:59 <b_jonas> there are also some interesting ais523 languages that I can propose next, but there's a limit of one proposal per person
18:30:26 <kspalaiologos> so if it's turing complete
18:30:29 <kspalaiologos> can one translate brainfuck to it?
18:30:37 <kspalaiologos> doesn't seem doable though
18:30:50 <b_jonas> technically you can, except for the IO
18:31:05 <kspalaiologos> what about the "infinite" memory
18:31:08 <kspalaiologos> and branching
18:31:15 <kspalaiologos> especially conditional one
18:31:31 <kspalaiologos> maybe my mind is constr
18:31:33 <kspalaiologos> ained
18:31:35 <LKoen> "unconditional branching" sounds like an alien concept
18:31:49 <kspalaiologos> ^ jmp %somewhere
18:32:08 <kspalaiologos> it's quite simple in nopfunge I believe
18:32:35 <kspalaiologos> also, as the minsky machine has just two registers
18:32:36 <b_jonas> the infinite memory is encoded in the two coordinates of the program counter of Nopfunge. there's a double-exponential blowup, so if you need n bytes of memory in brainfuck, the program counter coordinates will have 2**O(n) bits and will be of size 2**2**O(n)
18:32:48 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68626&oldid=68587 * BN * (+29)
18:32:57 <kspalaiologos> ** is exponentation?
18:32:59 <b_jonas> yes
18:33:17 <b_jonas> brainfuck is deterministic, the decisions corresponding to these deterministic branches will happen in the translated program
18:33:17 <kspalaiologos> it's interesting though
18:33:20 <b_jonas> again, no IO
18:33:27 <b_jonas> so it's brainfuck without the . or , statements
18:33:35 <kspalaiologos> 20 brainfuck cells, the minimum to run asm2bf
18:33:42 <kspalaiologos> will result in 2**2**20 bytes required
18:33:54 <b_jonas> no
18:33:58 <b_jonas> there's a big O in it
18:34:07 <b_jonas> and it's not 2**2**20 bytes
18:34:12 <kspalaiologos> how much is it?
18:34:20 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68627&oldid=68626 * BN * (+7) /* Tier */
18:34:25 <b_jonas> you never explicitly store the periodic code space, because it's periodic
18:34:34 <b_jonas> 2**2**O(n) is how large the program counter will grow
18:34:40 <b_jonas> that's not how large the source code is
18:34:48 <kspalaiologos> grow or reach?
18:34:58 <b_jonas> what's the difference?
18:35:17 <kspalaiologos> if the pointer will reach at most 2**2**O(n) the size is equal to square of it obviously
18:35:27 <kspalaiologos> (implying that it'll be a square)
18:35:29 <b_jonas> and of course you can set n to 20 only if it's fixed size brainfuck cells
18:35:41 <LKoen> oh my god
18:35:47 <b_jonas> the size of the imaginary playfield, yes, but you don't have to store that anywhere
18:35:48 <LKoen> "2**2**O(n)" o___O
18:35:51 <b_jonas> because it's a periodic playfield
18:35:58 <kspalaiologos> fine
18:36:02 <b_jonas> you only store one period, or two if you wish
18:36:15 <b_jonas> and the two coordniates of the program counter, which each have 2**O(n) bits
18:36:28 <kspalaiologos> ah ok
18:36:34 <kspalaiologos> I understand (a bit) now
18:36:40 <b_jonas> of course if your brainfuck program is one that runs forever and requires unbounded memory, then the translation will require unbounded memory too
18:37:34 <kspalaiologos> it's way more than 64 bits can hold
18:37:36 <kspalaiologos> not even trhing
18:37:43 <kspalaiologos> but a very nice concept isn't it
18:38:31 <kspalaiologos> maybe we should improve the minsky machine article
18:38:34 <kspalaiologos> because it's not helpful at all
18:38:41 <kspalaiologos> I seem to understand the topic so I may take on it later
18:39:12 <b_jonas> hmm yes, that's a good point
18:39:24 <kspalaiologos> because in practice it serves no information
18:39:54 <b_jonas> neither it nor the Fractran article gives a proof of Turing-completeness
18:39:58 <b_jonas> not even for many counters
18:40:07 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: it does give some information. it links to useful books.
18:40:28 <b_jonas> I put one of those books there, one where I read that proof
18:41:21 <kspalaiologos> wait
18:41:25 <kspalaiologos> actually minsky machine is really interesting
18:41:48 <kspalaiologos> and does it mean that two celled brainfuck is also turing complete?
18:42:04 <kspalaiologos> it's mindblowing
18:42:29 <kspalaiologos> how for example do you calculate modulus of a number on this two register machine or two cells brainfuck
18:43:01 <b_jonas> no, I don't think so
18:43:34 <b_jonas> but brainfuck with a fixed constant number of bigint cells is Turing-complete
18:43:58 <b_jonas> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Computational_class says that 3 cells are enough
18:43:59 <kspalaiologos> two bigint cells
18:44:05 <kspalaiologos> duh!
18:44:06 <kspalaiologos> three
18:44:08 <kspalaiologos> not two
18:44:23 <b_jonas> three for Brainfuck
18:44:51 <kspalaiologos> but
18:44:52 <int-e> you need one extra for conditionals
18:45:03 <b_jonas> two integers is enough for Turing-completeness for a Minsky machine, but requires double-exponential slowdown; three counters or more for a Minsky machine requires only an exponential slowdown
18:45:05 <kspalaiologos> if brainfuck had a digit near instruction
18:45:07 <kspalaiologos> a fixed digit
18:45:11 <kspalaiologos> and no pointer movement'
18:45:16 <kspalaiologos> (it seems like more constraining)
18:45:25 <kspalaiologos> it would be turing complete aswell with two cells
18:45:38 <b_jonas> what is a "digit near instruction"?
18:46:02 <kspalaiologos> 3+4- => will increment cell 3 and decrement cell 4
18:47:05 <b_jonas> but what control flow do you have? the control flow instructions are the real difference. you can just use < and > to choose cells
18:47:16 <int-e> Hmm? Why can't you translate that to >>>+>-<<<<?
18:47:48 <int-e> The problem isn't the arithmetic, it is testing a register for 0 and taking different paths in the program based on that
18:48:45 <int-e> ("register" being one of the simulated Minsky machine counters.)
18:49:06 <kspalaiologos> alright
18:49:17 <kspalaiologos> so how can you implement modulus on a three register brainfuck machine with bigint cells
18:49:24 <kspalaiologos> I'm intrested like never before
18:49:36 <kspalaiologos> *three cell brainfuck, sorry
18:49:41 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: I don't know, look at that article I linked, maybe it gives a link
18:49:45 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68628&oldid=68616 * Star651 * (+16) /* A */
18:50:13 <kspalaiologos> what I'm thinking about
18:50:17 <kspalaiologos> we could use these as stacks
18:50:44 <kspalaiologos> >> and << are implementable just using */ so it may be possible to have two "stacks" on this brainfuck variant
18:51:49 <kspalaiologos> so it's actually a PDA
18:51:51 <kspalaiologos> but it has two stacks
18:51:54 <kspalaiologos> so it's a turing machine
18:51:56 <kspalaiologos> but it makes no sense
18:52:03 <kspalaiologos> to extract a value off the stack one needs modulus
18:52:17 <kspalaiologos> and it's impossible to extract it using just three cells
18:54:00 <kspalaiologos> the proof has been made using collatz function
18:54:04 <kspalaiologos> interesting
18:56:21 <arseniiv> (unrelated) how do you represent cell complexes of arbitrary dimension? I’d use a dictionary from cells to their default orientations (in terms of default orientations of their boundary cells, downto points which are oriented unconditionally as e. g. positive) and then some dictionaries to represent the incidence, like boundaries and coboundaries, or just a plain dump of all incident cells for each of them, but which of these choices h
18:56:21 <arseniiv> ave a chance to be the most practical?..
18:56:58 <arseniiv> default orientations would be useful to supplement the incidence info
18:57:15 <arseniiv> then one would be able to represent oriented paths etc.
18:59:06 <arseniiv> also there should be a quirk distinguishing internal orientations (the usual ones) and external ones (like in pseudovectors vs. vectors), as one can’t orient the Moebius strip complex in the internal way but can in external one
18:59:42 <arseniiv> I don’t see where the changes would be in the representation description above
19:00:56 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: anyway, you're right, we should probably add a proof to the Minsky machine article about how they're turing-complete by simulating a multi-stack machine
19:01:05 <b_jonas> and ideally also the crazy proof for the two-counter machine
19:01:22 <b_jonas> because Nopfunge can only directly simulate the two-counter machine
19:02:00 <kspalaiologos> "crazy proof for the two-counter machine"
19:02:05 <kspalaiologos> that's what I'll spend my time on
19:02:07 <kspalaiologos> perfect
19:02:20 <kspalaiologos> at least I'll learn some about CS
19:04:10 <b_jonas> though I'll have to check the pages for ais's languages, one of them might already have a proof, since many of them are Minsky-based
19:04:16 <b_jonas> including The Waterfall Model
19:05:41 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: "crazy" is only my opinion, I think ais or oerjan don't find it crazy
19:06:02 <b_jonas> but it's crazy in essentials, that is, the simulation must be crazy in that it needs the double-exponential slowdown as far as I understand
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19:15:22 <kspalaiologos> I have to think for a while about it
19:15:26 <kspalaiologos> and top it off with asm2bf backend
19:15:33 <kspalaiologos> if my lifespan is long enough
19:15:48 <kspalaiologos> it's essentially subleq
19:15:54 <kspalaiologos> but better and worse in a couple of cases
19:16:12 <kspalaiologos> incdecne seems like a good name
19:18:54 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:25:30 <int-e> That collatz construction is pretty tricky.
19:26:57 <int-e> (I was around when oerjan came up with that one, but I don't recall looking at it in detail before just now.)
19:38:14 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Amitbashan * New user account
19:44:27 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68629&oldid=68602 * Amitbashan * (+281) /* Introductions */
19:46:08 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68630&oldid=68629 * Amitbashan * (+20) /* Introductions */
19:47:00 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68631&oldid=68630 * Amitbashan * (+11) /* Introductions */
19:47:28 <esowiki> [[User:Amitbashan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68632 * Amitbashan * (+12) Created page with "Hello there."
19:51:30 -!- sleepnap has left.
19:57:51 <b_jonas> there's an easy construction though, to translate a Minsky machine to brainfuck with bigint cells, where you assign a cell for each state of the Minsky, you set it to 1 if that's the current state and 0 otherwise, and the brainfuck program tests each of those state cells and performs its actions if it's set. this leads to a brainfuck program that uses bounded size tape, but the tape size depends on the
19:57:57 <b_jonas> size of the Minsky program.
20:33:36 <int-e> Oh sure, it all gets pretty simple if you add more cells.
20:49:44 <esowiki> [[User:Amitbashan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68633&oldid=68632 * Hex96 * (+32)
20:52:29 <esowiki> [[Category:Joke, kinda]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68634 * Hex96 * (+47) Created page with "The Joke, kinda category contains jokes, kinda."
20:53:24 <esowiki> [[User:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68635&oldid=68615 * Hex96 * (+44) /* List of esolangs */
20:54:12 <esowiki> [[User:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68636&oldid=68635 * Hex96 * (-5) /* List of esolangs */
20:55:20 <esowiki> [[Category:Joke, kinda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68637&oldid=68634 * Hex96 * (+32)
20:59:41 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68638&oldid=65723 * Hex96 * (+92)
21:00:21 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68639&oldid=68638 * Hex96 * (+13) /* Hello, World! (21 bytes) */
21:00:39 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68640&oldid=68639 * Hex96 * (-10) /* Hello, World! (21 bytes) */
21:00:48 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68641&oldid=68640 * Hex96 * (-1) /* Hello, World! (21 bytes) */
21:01:45 <esowiki> [[WCDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68642&oldid=68641 * Hex96 * (-13) /* Hello, World! (21 bytes) */
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21:42:05 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68643&oldid=68624 * Lebster * (+193) added SSL
22:12:32 <b_jonas> oh, that reminds me, I have to do this
22:12:37 <b_jonas> ``` date +%Y
22:12:38 <HackEso> 2020
22:12:42 <b_jonas> ^ looks wrong
22:12:50 <b_jonas> we're in the future
22:21:01 -!- subleq has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:23:12 <LBPHacker> ``` date +%G
22:23:13 <HackEso> 2020
22:25:41 <b_jonas> ``` date +%C%C
22:25:42 <HackEso> 2020
22:26:42 <zzo38> I added some more tropes for the story of GURPS game I play. But see if you agree/disagree
22:27:20 <b_jonas> ``` date +%S%S
22:27:21 <HackEso> 2121
22:27:23 <fizzie> `` date +%d%d | tac # if we're being silly
22:27:24 <HackEso> 0202
22:27:38 <fizzie> Whoops, I forgot what tac actually does.
22:27:43 <b_jonas> rev
22:27:52 <fizzie> `` date +%d%d | rev # then
22:27:53 <HackEso> 2020
22:28:12 <zzo38> Yes, now you are silly, I suppose, and at this time, it works.
22:28:52 <b_jonas> `datei
22:28:52 <HackEso> 2020-01-02 22:28:52.455 +0000 UTC January 2 Thursday 2020-W01-4
22:29:07 <b_jonas> ``` date 2019
22:29:08 <HackEso> date: invalid date '2019'
22:29:10 <b_jonas> ``` date +2019
22:29:11 <HackEso> 2019
22:29:13 <b_jonas> much better
22:39:40 <esowiki> [[User:Amitbashan]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68644&oldid=68633 * JonoCode9374 * (+134)
22:44:27 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68645&oldid=68620 * JonoCode9374 * (+4) /* Calculator */
22:54:34 <esowiki> [[Talk:Comp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=68646 * JonoCode9374 * (+323) /* The Ampersand */ new section
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22:59:15 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68647&oldid=68645 * JonoCode9374 * (+323)
23:00:18 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68648&oldid=68647 * JonoCode9374 * (-2)
23:06:33 <esowiki> [[Comp]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68649&oldid=68648 * JonoCode9374 * (+683)
23:15:43 <esowiki> [[Ekg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68650&oldid=68514 * JonoCode9374 * (+193) Uncat the page. \_( )_/
23:17:48 <esowiki> [[Ekg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=68651&oldid=68650 * JonoCode9374 * (+316) \_( )_/
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