←2020-01-25 2020-01-26 2020-01-27→ ↑2020 ↑all
00:00:08 <kingoffrance> if it doesnt solve any problem i have, im sorry that makes me "crazy"
00:00:28 <kingoffrance> i am "crazy" to expect real solutions to real problems
00:01:07 <imode> boy howdy, you sure proved me wrong, with all those multinational enterprises not solving real problems and such.
00:01:17 <imode> everybody's playing games except for you, I'm sure.
00:01:50 <kingoffrance> they solve enterprise problems, i can focus on individuals, boy howdy
00:02:22 <imode> you mean the individuals you don't interact with.
00:02:24 <imode> lmao.
00:02:34 <imode> because of incompatible encodings.
00:02:38 <kingoffrance> your just trolling
00:02:45 <imode> if the shoe fits.
00:03:29 <kingoffrance> well, either people exist to serve multinationals or multinationals exist to serve people; i am in the latter camp
00:03:53 <imode> what the fuck does that have to do with an encoding standard.
00:04:10 <imode> are you a conspiracy theorist. or have some kind of paranoid delusion at the intent of unicode.
00:04:39 <imode> like why is this the hill you die on.
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00:07:03 <zzo38> I do not expect that has anything to do with the encoding, although I do think that Unicode is too messy.
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00:38:45 <kingoffrance> its not my job to come up with standards for your business enterprises imode
00:38:57 <kingoffrance> thats not a "problem" i have
00:41:55 <imode> figuring out what you're talking about has now become unfun.
00:42:01 <imode> o/
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00:55:45 <Rerednaw> Hi everyone!
00:58:27 <Rerednaw> Do someone know where to go if we want to change a pseudo on the wiki?
01:00:02 <fizzie> Does that mean changing a username, or something completely different?
01:00:44 <Rerednaw> Yeah, changing the username
01:01:00 <Rerednaw> I would like to revive one of my old creations
01:01:46 <zzo38> You should still be able to edit the old files regardless of the username, though.
01:01:56 <Rerednaw> Yeah i know
01:02:16 <Rerednaw> But my username is linked to a past which i'm no longer proud of
01:02:44 <Rerednaw> So I try to do that at the same time
01:03:49 <kmc> 16:00 < kingoffrance> if it doesnt solve any problem i have, im sorry that makes me "crazy"
01:03:56 <kmc> i mean if you only read/write english
01:04:04 <kmc> and without any fancy punctuation or math characters or anything
01:04:07 <kmc> then ASCII is fine
01:04:16 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster/sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69341 * Lebster * (+1) Created page with "."
01:04:17 <kmc> many people in the world — most in fact — have a daily need to use characters that aren't in ASCII
01:05:01 <kmc> i don't think you can blame multinational corporations for the fact that not everyone speaks english
01:05:05 <kmc> i'm sure they'd rather that were the case :P
01:05:06 <fizzie> Rerednaw: Is that a past on the wiki, or past somewhere else? Because changing the username with the Renameuser extension will also update page histories and everything.
01:05:09 <kmc> and yes Unicode has a lot of complexity, and some of it is due to unfortunate historical reasons
01:05:10 <fizzie> Rerednaw: I guess, what I'm trying to ask is, what specifically would you be wanting to do regarding usernames on the wiki.
01:05:30 <kmc> but a lot of it is due to the fact that Unicode wants to be truly universal
01:05:39 <kmc> which means one system that solves (as close as possible) *everyone's* problems
01:05:43 <kmc> and that is valuable because
01:05:51 <kmc> we want to read documents written by others
01:06:02 <kmc> it's very convenient for the world to standardize on one way of representing text
01:06:12 <zzo38> The key to failure is trying to please everyone.
01:06:12 <kmc> even if that one way is necessarily pretty complicated
01:06:14 <Rerednaw> My old pseudo (BoutonIA) is linked to other activities I've done on Internet
01:06:18 <kmc> it's certainly a lot better than the old way
01:06:20 <kmc> imo
01:06:35 <Rerednaw> So I wold like to change the whole pseudo
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01:08:35 <Rerednaw> Sorry was disconnected
01:09:56 <fizzie> Rerednaw: In that case, I guess Renameuser is right for you. But it's restricted to wiki admins, and I may not even have enabled it. Could you leave a comment on, say, https://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Fizzie using that existing account stating what you want it to be renamed to, just to prove that you have control over it?
01:10:52 <fizzie> Or using the "Email this user" function from the wiki if you don't want it public, I think that also shows which user sent the message.
01:11:27 <Rerednaw> Okay I'll do it, thanks for the help!
01:19:54 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69342&oldid=69294 * Lebster * (-4)
01:21:32 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69343&oldid=69340 * Lebster * (-26) updated header scale
01:22:36 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69344&oldid=69119 * Lebster * (-26) updated header scale
01:22:49 <esowiki> [[User talk:Fizzie]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69345&oldid=66258 * BoutonIA * (+265)
01:22:53 <esowiki> [[!!Fuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69346&oldid=69318 * Lebster * (-4)
01:23:09 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69347&oldid=69328 * Lebster * (-4) updated header scales
01:23:16 <esowiki> [[User talk:Fizzie]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69348&oldid=69345 * BoutonIA * (-2) /* Request to change my username */ Change to big title
01:23:34 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69349&oldid=69347 * Lebster * (+3) grammar
01:24:53 <esowiki> [[User:BoutonIA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69350&oldid=56308 * BoutonIA * (-107)
01:26:35 <fizzie> Rerednaw: I'll give it a go. It may or may not cause you to log out. (MediaWiki is a mystery.)
01:27:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Fizzie * moved [[User:BoutonIA]] to [[User:Rerednaw]]: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "[[User:BoutonIA|BoutonIA]]" to "[[User:Rerednaw|Rerednaw]]"
01:27:12 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/renameuser]] renameuser * Fizzie * Fizzie renamed user [[User:BoutonIA]] (49 edits) to [[User:Rerednaw]]: Requested by the user.
01:27:48 <Rerednaw> I verified, it works perfectly!
01:28:01 <Rerednaw> Thanks again for all the help
01:28:15 <fizzie> It doesn't update links, so you may want to edit those on CopyPasta Language and BSoD.
01:28:39 <Rerednaw> Ok, i'll do it!
01:29:13 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69352&oldid=66454 * Rerednaw * (+0) Change of username
01:31:51 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69353&oldid=69352 * Rerednaw * (-101) Delete the old deadlike, since I have no longer the files
01:32:32 <esowiki> [[BSoD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69354&oldid=56309 * Rerednaw * (+0) Change of password
01:33:25 <esowiki> [[BSoD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69355&oldid=69354 * Rerednaw * (-126) Delete the old deadlike, since I have no longer the files
01:35:35 <esowiki> [[LSCEF]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69356 * Lebster * (+2302) created page
01:36:16 <esowiki> [[User:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69357&oldid=69342 * Lebster * (+30) +LSCEF
01:38:39 <esowiki> [[LSCEF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69358&oldid=69356 * Lebster * (+39) encodings for ` &
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02:15:15 <kingoffrance> i didnt mean to be rude, but i dont think i am wrong to imply at least utf8 was commercially-inspired https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/utf-8-history.txt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X/Open look at the list of organizations: all giants, not exactly "hobbyist" target audience
02:15:35 <kingoffrance> and the unix trademark thing :/ not something i am shooting for
02:16:40 <kingoffrance> i dont think i am stretching to assume they designed something to fit their needs, not mine
02:18:35 <kingoffrance> and how many of these unix vendors are gone, or "irrelevant" to most people in the "unix" space
02:21:36 <kingoffrance> how many non-commercial orgs do you see on those pages?
02:31:13 <kmc> kingoffrance: i'm very curious to hear about how you made your own computer without using anything produced by a corporation
02:31:30 <int-e> @tell imode Re: usability of Tue with nonlocal matches -- you could conveniently implement multi-tape TMs then, which I believe is quite a boost in convenience.
02:31:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:31:41 <int-e> @tell imode I mean Thue of course.
02:31:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:32:12 <int-e> `? kingoffrance
02:32:15 <HackEso> kingoffrance ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:32:37 <kmc> anyway it's great for you if you don't have to solve any of the complicated problems that unicode solves
02:32:42 <kmc> i'm sincerely happy for you
02:32:45 <int-e> `learn Kingoffrance is what happens when you cross zzo38 with a conspiracy theorist.
02:32:48 <HackEso> Learned 'kingoffrance': Kingoffrance is what happens when you cross zzo38 with a conspiracy theorist.
02:33:21 <int-e> (Or is that too unfair to zzo38...)
02:34:33 <kmc> it seems kind of like complaining that pet stores exist because you don't own a dog so you have no use for them
02:34:37 <kmc> but okay
02:35:22 <int-e> kingoffrance: 1) You don't matter. 2) Yes, big corporations are not out to solve your problems. 3) Citing UTF-8 as an example for that is ridiculous. 4) No I don't want to discuss any of this.
02:35:33 <kmc> harsh
02:35:34 <kmc> but fair
02:43:25 <zzo38> int-e: It doesn't matter if it is unfair to me or not, I think.
02:46:42 <int-e> zzo38: Well I'm usually aiming for a tease, not for an outright offense... so if I've crossed that line the entry should be deleted.
02:48:19 <zzo38> Well, I like freedom of speech, so I think that it is OK how it is.
03:03:58 <kingoffrance> int-e : sure, re: 2) but i was noting the hypocrisy of somehow i am supposed to solve theirs :/ for free :/ just cuz :/
03:04:29 <kingoffrance> which i consider "trolling"
03:11:11 <kmc> there are plenty of reasons to be upset at big corporations; UTF-8 is not one of them
03:11:20 <kmc> especially since you haven't given a single specific thing you dislike about it
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03:29:05 <imode> ASCII was created by big private organizations.
03:29:39 <imode> int-e: figured as much. suddenly orchestrating things with multiple cursors becomes so much easier.
03:40:15 <kingoffrance> i am, however, quite flattered that people think i simultaneously dont matter and should write a competing standard for commercial orgs to follow; it makes me feel very quantum
03:40:43 <kingoffrance> that, is how i really feel
03:41:01 <imode> I don't think you should write a competing standard. I think you should think before you speak about the suitability of a standard to your limited prospects.
03:41:27 <zzo38> How to do disk image swapping in DOSBOX?
03:41:35 <imode> on the "you don't matter", yeah, you don't. none of us here have any influence over standards adoption.
03:42:20 <imode> zzo38: I believe CTRL+F4?
03:42:30 <imode> see https://www.dosbox.com/wiki/IMGMOUNT
03:43:42 <zzo38> It says using multiple files is only supported for cue/iso images, but I am trying to mount a floppy disk image
03:44:14 <imode> hm.
03:47:30 <imode> looks like you can do something with the `boot` command, but yeah, it's not supported in the main builds of DOSBox..
03:47:32 <imode> weird.
03:53:28 <zzo38> I will try to just copy the files from the disk images all into one directory and see if that works.
03:54:33 <int-e> imode: could it have something to do with CD-ROMs being read-only...
03:55:03 <imode> more than likely, yeah. partial writes are a bitch.
03:58:17 <zzo38> Unfortunately, that didn't work. It requires either the original disk or a copy onto the same type of disk; it won't work if the installation files are in the hard drive, even if SUBST is used.
03:58:19 <int-e> When was the last time you've heard the term "webcast"?
04:06:04 <imode> 12 years ago.
04:11:22 <kingoffrance> its like a steve jobs thing (person a) im not sure one-size-fits all (person b) come up with a new one-size-fits-all standard then (person a) that's not what i said (person b) i'm sorry, did i act like you matter? i meant to say you don't matter
04:11:32 <kingoffrance> the ghost of steve jobs
04:11:37 <kingoffrance> or so i've heard
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06:01:43 <esowiki> [[User talk:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69359&oldid=68517 * JonoCode9374 * (+173) /* Howdy! */ new section
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08:03:51 <kingoffrance> the only thing i can say is commercial stuff is "the other type of esoteric" by its very nature, that type of law always has been thus, and i dont wish to infect my work with their timeframes as much as possible; if they somehow changed their definition of "time" maybe we would have more common ground
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10:48:26 <esowiki> [[Nix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69360&oldid=47213 * IFcoltransG * (+103) Categories
10:49:57 <esowiki> [[Nix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69361&oldid=69360 * IFcoltransG * (+10) Fixed 2d category
10:55:46 <esowiki> [[Bootstrap]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69362&oldid=68970 * IFcoltransG * (+9) Added {{stub}}
10:59:28 <esowiki> [[And then]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69363&oldid=66523 * IFcoltransG * (+9) Removed stub tag, replaced with joke tag. Seems like a complete description of the lang; nothing else need be said.
11:13:21 <esowiki> [[QUOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69364&oldid=30825 * IFcoltransG * (+296)
11:16:20 <esowiki> [[QUOTE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69365&oldid=69364 * IFcoltransG * (-79) Found more info
11:29:06 <esowiki> [[QIRAML]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69366 * IFcoltransG * (+336) Created page with "{{stub}} '''QIRAML''', pronounced similar to "caramel", stands for ''QIRAML Isn't Really A Markup Language''. The language is the successor to [[QUOTE]], and is used to prepro..."
11:39:25 <esowiki> [[!Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69367&oldid=65160 * IFcoltransG * (+8) Made things a link solely so I could click them right now
11:39:53 <esowiki> [[!Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69368&oldid=69367 * IFcoltransG * (-18) Reformatted links
11:43:02 <esowiki> [[Decision tree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69369&oldid=44782 * IFcoltransG * (+22) Added this to one of my favourite categories. (No, not stubs!)
11:47:48 <esowiki> [[Treeng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69370&oldid=67744 * IFcoltransG * (+67) Added a clarification
11:48:33 <esowiki> [[Treeng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69371&oldid=69370 * IFcoltransG * (+4) Added link to [[graph]]
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12:15:05 <esowiki> [[Cixl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69372&oldid=68968 * IFcoltransG * (+12) Added links
12:27:04 <esowiki> [[Talk:ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69373&oldid=67242 * IFcoltransG * (+229)
12:34:49 <esowiki> [[ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69374&oldid=45834 * IFcoltransG * (+42) Fixed typos
12:35:33 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69375&oldid=69374 * IFcoltransG * (+34) Added a category
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12:37:10 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69376&oldid=69375 * IFcoltransG * (+25) /* Commands */ Formatted the rest of the escape sequences
12:37:33 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69377&oldid=69376 * IFcoltransG * (+1) Fixed formatting
12:56:37 <esowiki> [[User talk:Lebster]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69378&oldid=69359 * Lebster * (+102) /* Howdy! */
13:10:17 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69379&oldid=69349 * Lebster * (-333)
13:11:54 <esowiki> [[DetailedFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69380&oldid=69379 * Lebster * (+69)
13:26:29 <esowiki> [[Line Feed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69381&oldid=69290 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+35)
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13:27:18 <esowiki> [[LogicF---]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69382&oldid=69289 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+35)
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14:45:25 <esowiki> [[HaltJS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69383 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+687) Created page with "'''HaltJS''' is a language created by [[User:Pythonshelldebugwindow]]. ==Syntax== HaltJS has a syntax identical to that of JavaScript, with one major limitation: whenever the..."
14:45:43 <esowiki> [[HaltJS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69384&oldid=69383 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2)
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18:47:59 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69385&oldid=69343 * Lebster * (+215) added "Print the Fibonacci Sequence"
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19:48:39 <rain1> hi
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20:14:32 <kingoffrance> my dillema is i come from a land before open source and free software were "fused"; so i get along fine with 1) people not wanting to fuse with gpl (bsd) 2) gpl people (who arent zealots) i only have problems with commercial people trying to "fuse" into my non-commercialness, which always fails :/
20:14:39 <kingoffrance> or i come from a "freenode" before thus took place
20:14:58 <kingoffrance> i think that is the root of all my disagreements with people
20:15:27 <rain1> hello kingoffrance
20:15:44 <kingoffrance> greetings
20:15:58 <zzo38> Either way (GPL or BSD) it is still free software and open source software. However, I just dislike copyright in general, so I release everything to public domain
20:16:05 <rain1> hey zzo38
20:16:07 <kingoffrance> yeah, thats what i think i will do
20:21:37 <kmc> or you can do CC0, which is like public domain but with a bunch of extra words to make it like public domain even in places where "public domain" isn't a thing
20:22:33 <zzo38> Another variant I have seen is
20:22:43 <rain1> have yo thought about quantum computing
20:23:20 <zzo38> Another variant I have seen is dual licensing by MIT license and CC0. I have also seen MIT license with an extra clause saying any Discordian pope may grant themself a license to use WTFPL.
20:25:34 <kmc> haha
20:25:54 <kmc> that one is just designed to annoy lawyers while putting hackers at ease
20:25:55 <kmc> i like it
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20:41:01 <kingoffrance> i dont think people realize the genuis of such; its like parody of a parody of a parody in a sense; i cant explain here, but ...they did their homework
20:48:03 <kingoffrance> i consider such genius feats of "practical reverse engineering"
20:48:53 <j4cbo> sqlite does something similar
20:50:22 <j4cbo> https://www.hwaci.com/cgi-bin/license-step1
20:58:07 <imode> the technique is known as taking the piss.
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21:45:05 <esowiki> [[Rogex]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69386&oldid=69344 * JonoCode9374 * (+1049) /* Online */
21:47:09 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69387&oldid=69194 * Rerednaw * (+1) /* CopyPasta Language */ Missing an exclamation point
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22:14:19 <esowiki> [[CopyPasta Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69388&oldid=69353 * Rerednaw * (+0) Change a bit the Hello, World
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23:43:35 <imode> I wonder how fast you can make Thue. wonder if you can make it compete with C.
23:44:18 <imode> like, what's the theoretical limit here that doesn't involve bringing in multiprocessing.
23:45:12 <imode> you're not gonna outshoot something that compiles down to machine code, but you could probably hit a sweet spot like Forths do.
23:50:15 <zzo38> Can you convert a JPEG file into another format and then reencode it as JPEG with the same settings without making it more lossy if the picture hasn't changed and the original JPEG file is lost?
23:53:40 <imode> that's a question that should be answered by attempting it tbh. I wanna say no.
23:54:20 <imode> JPEG is lossy, and if you do something like JPEG <-> PNG <-> JPEG, it's a form of generational noise.
23:54:41 <imode> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_loss
23:56:34 <zzo38> But shouldn't there be some way of making an encoder that supports doing it without further loss (as long as the colour space and quantization tables match the original)?
23:58:04 <esowiki> [[Talk:ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69389&oldid=69373 * IFcoltransG * (+480) /* Binary trees in single commands */ new section
23:58:28 <esowiki> [[ESON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69390&oldid=69377 * IFcoltransG * (+747) /* Commands */ Added commands for binary trees, general trees, directed graphs and undirected graphs.
23:58:53 <esowiki> [[ESON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69391&oldid=69390 * IFcoltransG * (+3) Fixed formatting of table
23:59:02 <imode> so you're saying if you have a JPEG, you convert it to a PNG, you want to transcode that back into a JPEG without any loss of data?
23:59:51 <zzo38> imode: Yes; assume that I know what colour space and quantization tables were used in the original JPEG file (since they may need to match in order to allow it to be reencoded without any further loss)
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