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00:21:26 <zzo38> Is there a picture file format for combining several arbitrary separations into one file?
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01:46:45 <zzo38> In my "ps aux", two of the four entries for apache2 have seven digits in the "VSZ" column, and so does console-kit-daemon. What is "console-kit-daemon"? There is no man page for it on my computer.
01:49:13 <oerjan> let's hope oggie stops talking before higgs has to kill them both
01:50:11 <int-e> let's hope he doesn't so we as the readers get a better understanding of what's going on
01:51:14 <int-e> zzo38: isn't that one of the things responsible for handling permissions for the current console user (e.g. for audio devices)? Don't ask me why it's looking so big though.
01:51:57 <int-e> Apache may reasonably be mmap-ing lots of files, including the virtual address space size.
01:54:24 <fizzie> All Go programs tend to be giant in VSZ terms, presumably for something odd the runtime does. Not the answer for console-kit-daemon, though.
01:55:25 <fizzie> Although looks like Xmonad has them beat by three orders of magnitude (10 digits).
01:57:07 <int-e> Yeah, the ghc developers made the decision to allocate a lot of contiguous address space up front to simplify heap management.
01:57:33 <int-e> On 64 bit platforms at least.
01:59:02 <int-e> It's mostly under MADV_DONTNEED, except for the parts actually used for the heap.
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05:16:03 <zzo38> I want to be able to make a list of all allocated memory blocks and their sizes, which ones are shareable, and which programs are using that block (if it isn't shareable, only one program will be using it).
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07:34:09 <zzo38> What causes the RAM usage of the computer to increase over time (and sometimes, a lot), even if no process seems to use it? It says 1245148 is used out of 4049088 (this is on the "-/+ buffers/cache" line). Usually when the computer is started, it is lower. But this time it is much higher than usual.
07:37:56 <zzo38> The percentage of memory for all processes is low, but the total is higher.
07:44:37 <int-e> hmm, "Note that the output of free was changed in procps 3.3.10 (released in 2014)."
07:45:17 <int-e> (I have no "-/+ buffers/cache" line anymore.)
07:46:38 <int-e> zzo38: obviously there is no useful general answer. It may help to look at top (press shift-M to sort by resident memory).
07:47:09 <olsner> I wrote a script to count shared pages etc across multiple processes using /proc/*/pagemap but I seem to have misplaced it (though I wouldn't necessarily run it on a whole system - my use case was looking at a chromium process tree)
07:47:14 <zzo38> Adding up all of the numbers in the "%MEM" column in "top" (it is sorted by that column, with higher numbers listed first) only adds up to 5.4%.
07:51:15 <olsner> ooh, found it: https://gist.github.com/olsner/e9b004021f9b7669a184
07:55:35 <kmc> good stuff
07:56:31 <olsner> if you think the extra memory is wasted by the kernel, you can have a look at /proc/slabinfo (though that probably takes some work to understand)
07:59:29 <zzo38> I did try slabtop, but I do not understand what is the significance of that.
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08:01:30 <olsner> oh, didn't know about slabtop, that's nice
08:01:48 <int-e> slabtop -s c sorts by cache size :)
08:02:16 <zzo38> I did notice this line: "Active / Total Size (% used) : 160306.54K / 163440.86K (98.1%)" Again, I don't know what is the significance of this.
08:02:37 <olsner> I think you'd have to check it once early, then check it after you've "lost" a lot of memory and see what's increased (if anything)
08:03:33 <zzo38> Even if I add that number to the total I have figured, it still doesn't add up to the amount of memory it believes to be used in total.
08:04:04 <int-e> with sum luck, the 160306 number corresponds closely to the 'cached' item in 'free'?
08:04:24 <esowiki> [[Legit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69841&oldid=61552 * YamTokTpaFa * (+22) Let's add.
08:06:37 <int-e> Ah well. I'm looking at /proc/meminfo and getting more confused. Then again, I can closely match the 'used' memory with the resident sizes of the running programs, so I'm not sure why I'm looking.
08:07:26 <int-e> Could the procps version be too old for the kernel, and thus be missing crucial information?
08:08:48 <zzo38> No it doesn't; the "cached" item says 1626064, which is approximately ten times as much (but not exactly as much).
08:09:55 <olsner> slabinfo stuff counts under "buffers" for me (my free only shows the sum of cache and buffers, but /proc/meminfo has them separately)
08:11:00 <zzo38> The number listed for "buffers" is 531888
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15:26:37 <wib_jonas> fungot, what is the melting temperature of gallium?
15:26:37 <fungot> wib_jonas: if we ignore for the moment), that isn't quite as insane as i am shouldn't be let even near any kitchen stuff. will probably release a new htmlprag tonight with sisc officially working again
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16:18:08 <fizzie> fungot: Please don't use gallium in "any kitchen stuff", at least if you're feeding humans.
16:18:08 <fungot> fizzie: yes. they will ants move unpredictably, and fnord
16:18:39 <fizzie> fungot: I mean, it's probably fair to compare us to ants moving unpredictably, but it isn't really *nice*.
16:18:40 <fungot> fizzie: a new competition in brainfuck golf forum...) succeeded. ai-ai_canonname: " ( write ( 1. 2)
16:23:45 <wib_jonas> fizzie: if it's not too big, can you install libicu-dev to HackEso so that we can try to compile the egel interpreter and have one more crazy esolang interpreted by ! ?
16:23:59 <wib_jonas> also, make him ignore egelbot if it doesn't yet
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16:46:29 <fizzie> Installed. It was biggish (43.6M), but not crazy-big.
16:47:29 <fizzie> As for the ignoring, I'll have to look up how that works. Up until now the magic prefix avoidance has been enough, but not for "botname:"-activated bots. Surprising that it hasn't cropped up so far.
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17:30:45 <b_jonas> I feel ill now, but I'll try to install egel some other day
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17:42:58 <b_jonas> I find it strange that none of the bots here other than j-bot and egelbot respond to their name by the way
17:45:42 <fizzie> And fungot, though not quite in the same way.
17:45:42 <fungot> fizzie: thus the eval. of lisp systems while you're out there. all the good things it can do for you
17:46:17 <b_jonas> oh yeah, fungot does respond
17:46:17 <fungot> b_jonas: so, what would you prefer to guess an answer you might like sicp
17:46:43 <b_jonas> but his answer format protects against bot loops even more than the answer format of j-bot which merely puts the nick of the querant at the beginning of the message
17:47:33 <b_jonas> not that the ignore technically helps much about botloops, because egelbot can loop on its own, but I still feel it's prudent
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19:05:25 <b_jonas> `fetch /hackenv/tmp/egel.zip https://github.com/egel-lang/egel-bot/archive/master.zip
19:05:27 <HackEso> 2020-02-13 19:05:26 URL:https://codeload.github.com/egel-lang/egel-bot/zip/master  -> "/hackenv/tmp/egel.zip" 
19:05:52 <esowiki> [[User talk:Apollyon094]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=69842 * Hex96 * (+98) Created page with "Hi ~~~~"
19:06:32 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd /hackenv/tmp; unzip egel.zip; echo ok
19:06:33 <HackEso> Archive: egel.zip \ 4fe224ee15ab19677ac6c0ccaa6bf4ab40144a60 \ creating: egel-bot-master/ \ inflating: egel-bot-master/.gitignore \ inflating: egel-bot-master/LICENSE.md \ inflating: egel-bot-master/README.md \ creating: egel-bot-master/src/ \ inflating: egel-bot-master/src/Makefile \ inflating: egel-bot-master/src/egel-bot.cpp \ inflating: egel-bot-master/src/script.eg \ ok
19:06:54 <b_jonas> no no, that's the wrong one
19:07:07 <b_jonas> ``` rm -rv /hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master
19:07:08 <HackEso> removed '/hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master/src/egel-bot.cpp' \ removed '/hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master/src/script.eg' \ removed '/hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master/src/Makefile' \ removed directory '/hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master/src' \ removed '/hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master/.gitignore' \ removed '/hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master/LICENSE.md' \ removed '/hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master/README.md' \ removed directory '/hackenv/tmp/egel-bot-master'
19:07:15 <b_jonas> ``` rm -v /hackenv/tmp/egel.zip
19:07:15 <HackEso> removed '/hackenv/tmp/egel.zip'
19:07:33 <b_jonas> `fetch /hackenv/tmp/egel.zip https://github.com/egel-lang/egel/archive/master.zip
19:07:34 <HackEso> https://github.com/egel-lang/egel/archive/master.zip%20: \ 2020-02-13 19:07:33 ERROR 404: Not Found.
19:07:37 <b_jonas> `fetch /hackenv/tmp/egel.zip https://github.com/egel-lang/egel/archive/master.zip
19:07:39 <HackEso> 2020-02-13 19:07:39 URL:https://codeload.github.com/egel-lang/egel/zip/master  -> "/hackenv/tmp/egel.zip" 
19:07:47 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd /hackenv/tmp; unzip egel.zip; echo ok
19:07:49 <HackEso> Archive: egel.zip \ 1074f699606e00ca151cf5a4916b9a4c052d1d9f \ creating: egel-master/ \ inflating: egel-master/.gitignore \ inflating: egel-master/LICENSE.md \ inflating: egel-master/NOTES.md \ inflating: egel-master/README.md \ inflating: egel-master/TODO.md \ inflating: egel-master/VERSION.md \ creating: egel-master/bugs/ \ inflating: egel-master/bugs/bug0-fixed.eg \ inflating: egel-master/bugs/bug1
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19:08:07 <esowiki> [[StupidStackLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69843&oldid=69834 * Lebster * (-14) optimized hello world
19:08:27 <b_jonas> ``` make -C /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src egel &> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/buildlog
19:09:21 <b_jonas> ``` make -C /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src egel &> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/buildlog
19:09:37 <b_jonas> good thing make is easy to continue
19:10:10 <b_jonas> ``` make -C /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src egel &>> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/buildlog
19:11:25 <b_jonas> I was hoping it would just work out of box...
19:11:52 <b_jonas> oh, that link command is definitely wrong
19:13:52 <b_jonas> ``` set -e; cd /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src; c++ --std=c++17 -Werror utils.o lexical.o operators.o syntactical.o ast.o transform.o semantical.o desugar.o lift.o emit.o builtin/system.o builtin/math.o builtin/string.o builtin/evaluate.o builtin/thread.o egel.o -ldl -lpthread -licuio -licui18n -licuuc -licudata -o egel &>> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/buildlog1
19:14:25 <b_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel -h
19:14:26 <HackEso> Usage: egel [options] filename \ Options: \ [-h|--help] display usage \ [-v|--version] display version \ [-|--in] interactive mode (default) \ [-I|--include] <dir>add include directory \ [-e|--eval] <text>evaluate command \ [-T|--tokens] output all tokens (debug) \ [-U|--unparse] output the parse tree (debug) \ [-X|--check] output analyzed tree (debug) \ [-D|--desugar] output desugare
19:14:35 <b_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel <<<$'3*8'
19:14:36 <HackEso> >> internal:1:2:semantical:undeclared * \ >>
19:14:46 <b_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel <<<$'3'
19:15:00 <b_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel <<<$'[X -> (X,X)] 3'
19:15:01 <HackEso> >> (System:tuple 3 3) \ >>
19:15:05 <b_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel <<<$'[X -> (X,X+X)] 3'
19:15:06 <HackEso> >> internal:1:11:semantical:undeclared + \ >>
19:17:41 <b_jonas> spruit11: why does egel not seem to have those standard library functions when I build it this way?
19:17:52 <b_jonas> and how do I have to build if I want it to have the standard library?
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20:31:10 <spruit11> b_jonas: I am not sure what you're running. If you try to run Egel from command line, don't forget to include the "prelude.eg" and open the namespaces.
20:33:00 <b_jonas> spruit11: doesn't the prelude only have the list operations and such, as opposed to the + operator for numbers?
20:33:33 <spruit11> For built-ins you still need to open the namespaces, though.
20:33:55 <b_jonas> What namespaces are those?
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20:34:51 <spruit11> I thought it would be best to have the repl start in a vanilla state but that isn't very user friendly, I agree.
20:35:30 <spruit11> But you were able to build it? I accepted a pull request for libicu a few days ago which should have fixed some issues.
20:36:21 <b_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel <<<$'using System; using Math; [X -> (X,X+X)] 3'
20:36:22 <HackEso> >> internal:1:13:syntactical:; unexpected \ >>
20:36:43 <b_jonas> spruit11: yes, it did apparently build, you can see above in the channel logs
20:36:57 <b_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel <<<$'using System\n using Math\n [X -> (X,X+X)] 3'
20:36:58 <HackEso> >> >> >> (System:tuple 3 6) \ >>
20:37:21 <b_jonas> ok, I'll install this to hackenv and put some wrappers around it tomorrow unless someone else does it first
20:38:26 <b_jonas> the initial link error was because the egel Makefile and the HackEso environment didn't combine well
20:38:54 <b_jonas> I think it requires pkg-config, which isn't currently installed on HackEso
20:39:01 <spruit11> Hmm, the Makefile is called from a build script which might pass it some arguments, dunno.
20:39:10 <spruit11> I was never happy with the build I do.
20:39:20 <b_jonas> that was easy to work around, though you might want to modify the Makefile to give an error earlier if that happens
20:39:36 <b_jonas> doesn't matter really, given that it looks like I could build it
20:40:35 <spruit11> But you didn't run the install script, I guess?
20:40:46 <b_jonas> I didn't install it yet, I'm just running it from the build directory
20:40:51 <b_jonas> I'll try to install tomorrow
20:41:03 <b_jonas> as for what OS/distribution, ask fizzie or look at the HackEso entry on the wiki
20:41:11 <b_jonas> I think it's Debian stable
20:41:15 <spruit11> Right, that should work but you'll miss some stuff. Stuff you don't really need though.
20:41:57 <b_jonas> sure, you can play with it and build a better version if you want
20:42:09 <spruit11> You might get around that if you put a number of files in the same directory as the interpreter.
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20:42:26 <spruit11> But that would also give people access to the host machine.
20:42:54 <b_jonas> that shoulnd't be not a problem, since it's still running inside HackEso
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20:56:46 <esowiki> [[User talk:Apollyon094]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69844&oldid=69842 * JonoCode9374 * (+167)
20:57:00 <esowiki> [[User talk:Apollyon094]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69845&oldid=69844 * JonoCode9374 * (+1)
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23:51:48 <spruit11> b_jonas: I started on a small note to explain the implementation of Egel. Possibly you're interested: https://github.com/egel-lang/egel-tex/blob/master/semantics/semantics.pdf
23:52:08 <spruit11> I'll probably rewrite this note a few times. It's rather rushed.