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02:00:13 <oerjan> <b_jonas> I find it strange that none of the bots here other than j-bot and egelbot respond to their name by the way <-- lambdabot also does
02:01:28 <fungot> Hooloovo0: are there any better way than agg uses, simply because sicp seems to use it for browsing :)
02:11:12 <spruit11> HMpf, I think I am done for tonight.
02:14:05 <oerjan> Hooloovo0: yeah fizzie already mentioned that
02:15:46 <int-e> Oh Schlockmercenary reaches new levels of boredom.
02:21:50 <int-e> Anyone remembers Recursed? https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.05131
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02:44:36 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69846&oldid=24932 * DmilkaSTD * (+115)
02:48:20 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69847&oldid=69846 * DmilkaSTD * (+324)
02:48:40 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69848&oldid=69847 * DmilkaSTD * (-1)
02:48:53 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69849&oldid=69848 * DmilkaSTD * (+1)
02:49:08 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69850&oldid=69849 * DmilkaSTD * (+0)
02:53:02 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69851&oldid=69850 * DmilkaSTD * (-136)
02:53:14 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69852&oldid=69851 * DmilkaSTD * (+12)
02:53:23 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69853&oldid=69852 * DmilkaSTD * (+3)
02:58:10 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69854&oldid=69853 * DmilkaSTD * (+598)
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06:38:22 <zzo38> Will TeXnicard require some sort of package management, do you think? If so, it would likely be a separate program, so that TeXnicard can still run without the package management; however, this might still require adding the ability to include additional configuration files from within .texnicardrc (which, among other things, tells where to find each template).
06:39:38 <oerjan> hm, i wonder if the answer to the question in today's girl genius panel 4 will become apparent in a moment...
06:40:12 <oerjan> . o O ( is that non-spoilery enough for you? )
06:40:47 <zzo38> Unfortunately, I do not know the answer to any of those three questions (one of which I don't even know the question).
06:42:21 <oerjan> well the intended you = int-e
06:51:38 <int-e> oerjan: I had actually seen it this time and I still don't see a spoiler.
06:51:53 <int-e> oerjan: So I guess it's a success.
06:53:01 <int-e> Are you speculating that there'll be a feast for cats soon?
07:02:03 <oerjan> i'm speculating that the shiny thing might have an effect on the kitchen cat.
07:02:28 <int-e> Cat eat fish, and we may have a fish problem at our hands really soon now. :P
07:03:26 <oerjan> well that would be impressive seeing as there are probably only these two cats there...
07:05:11 <int-e> It's a submarine, a ship; didn't ships use to have many cats to keep the rats in check?
07:05:41 <int-e> Me neither. But it sounds like it makes sense ;-)
07:10:30 <int-e> FWIW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship%27s_cat agrees
07:11:02 <int-e> (Though it's silent on quantity.)
07:11:33 <zzo38> Something I notice with YCoCg24: If the high bit of the RGB channels are never set, then the high bit of Y is also never set, and the values of the Co and Cg channels must be inside of a diamond or triangle with a size depending on the value of the Y channel. (This can be tested by e.g. "ff-gradient 256 256 q 340000 34FFFF | ff-ycocg db8 | ff-bitmask 8000800080000000 0000000000000000 | ff-xwin".)
07:12:23 <int-e> Oh my, there's a cat's portal on Wikipedia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Cats ... not sure whether to laugh or cry.
07:13:06 <zzo38> Because the of the shape of the triangle, this suggests that encoding Cg before Co might allow the value of Cg to be predicted better. Mathematical analysis of the YCoCg24 equations might be helpful.
07:16:52 <zzo38> Do you know about YCoCg?
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08:17:25 <kmc> zzo38: what is YCoCg?
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11:02:27 <wib_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel <<<$'using System\n using Math\n 3+5'
11:02:38 <wib_jonas> I'll have to look at the interpreter options to make it not print those >> prompts
11:10:00 <wib_jonas> ``` /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel -e $'using System\n using Math\n 3+5'
11:10:01 <HackEso> internal:2:2:syntactical:using unexpected
11:11:07 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69855&oldid=69854 * A * (+24)
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11:12:19 <wib_jonas> ``` echo $'using System\n using Math\n 3+5' > /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.egel; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.egel
11:12:20 <HackEso> input/output:file "/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.egel" not found
11:12:55 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.egel; echo $'using System\n using Math\n 3+5' > "$f"; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel "$f"
11:12:56 <HackEso> input/output:file "/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.egel" not found
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11:15:13 <wib_jonas> spruit11 why doesn't egel find the file?
11:15:29 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.egel; echo $'using System\n using Math\n 3+5' > "$f"; cat -n "$f" # the file is right there
11:15:30 <HackEso> 1using System \ 2 using Math \ 3 3+5
11:31:59 <esowiki> [[Golden sunrise]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69856&oldid=69836 * Hakerh400 * (+218) Added similarities to other esolangs
11:36:48 <int-e> wib_jonas: https://github.com/egel-lang/egel/blob/master/src/modules.hpp#L688-L695 is why... -I could help.
11:37:25 <int-e> (-I adds an include path. Only ./ is added by default.)
11:38:21 <int-e> So a dirty hack would be -I /
11:40:08 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.egel; echo $'using System\n using Math\n 3+5' > "$f"; cd /; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel "$f"
11:40:13 <HackEso> input/output:file "/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.egel" has wrong extension
11:40:23 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg; echo $'using System\n using Math\n 3+5' > "$f"; cd /; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/eg "$f"
11:40:25 <HackEso> bash: /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/eg: No such file or directory
11:40:30 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg; echo $'using System\n using Math\n 3+5' > "$f"; cd /; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel "$f"
11:40:31 <HackEso> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg:3:2:syntactical:declaration or directive expected
11:40:55 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg; echo $'using System\n using Math\nsay (3+5)' > "$f"; cd /; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel "$f"
11:40:56 <HackEso> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg:3:1:syntactical:declaration or directive expected
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11:52:29 <int-e> wib_jonas: was the ouch for the code, for the dirty workaround, or both? :)
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11:53:36 <wib_jonas> I think it's best if I just wait for spruit11, maybe he can say something useful, or write a patch or something
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14:11:15 <esowiki> [[@]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69857&oldid=65426 * A * (+386) /* Quick Reference */ Try to add a table
14:16:36 <esowiki> [[@]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69858&oldid=69857 * A * (-156) /* Quick Reference */
14:22:47 <esowiki> [[@]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69859&oldid=69858 * A * (+150) /* Quick Reference */
14:25:10 <esowiki> [[@]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69860&oldid=69859 * A * (+317) /* Quick Reference */ Mass production
14:31:17 <esowiki> [[@]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69861&oldid=69860 * A * (+295) /* Quick Reference */
14:31:59 <esowiki> [[@]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69862&oldid=69861 * A * (+5) /* Quick Reference */
14:38:24 <esowiki> [[@]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69863&oldid=69862 * A * (+314) /* Quick Reference */
14:40:24 <esowiki> [[@]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69864&oldid=69863 * A * (+38) /* Quick Reference */
14:41:37 <esowiki> [[@]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69865&oldid=69864 * A * (+10) /* Quick Reference */
14:44:09 <cpressey> So there are these things called "abstract binding trees", or ABTs, which are like ASTs, except they, uh, do binding.
14:44:43 <cpressey> "Another way of putting it is that ABTs is HOAS minus the ability to do partial application or lambda-abstraction, so the only equational theory we need to consider for them is alpha-equivalence." -- https://semantic-domain.blogspot.com/2015/03/abstract-binding-trees.html
14:46:12 <cpressey> imo full HOAS is overkill so I like this idea in principle. In practice I will never learn what it exactly is and I will continue to use ASTs and write awkward traversal functions for them instead of elegant traversal functions on ABTs.
14:52:00 <spruit11> Hello? What seems to be the problem?
14:54:17 <esowiki> [[Nybblang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69866&oldid=69817 * A * (+99)
14:57:02 <spruit11> wib_jonas: 'say' is only for the bot. For standard script, use 'print'.
14:58:05 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg; echo $'using System\n using Math\ndef answer = print(3+5)' > "$f"; cd /; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel "$f"
14:58:09 <HackEso> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg:3:14:semantical:undeclared print
14:58:15 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg; echo $'using System\n using Math\nprint(3+5)' > "$f"; cd /; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel "$f"
14:58:17 <HackEso> /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg:3:1:syntactical:declaration or directive expected
14:58:22 <cpressey> myname: Higher-Order Abstract Syntax. afaict it means your AST is a term in the lambda calculus, with all that implies.
14:59:48 <spruit11> Right, print is in IO. Which is in "io.ego", a dynamic loadable lib. You don't have access to that, at the moment.
15:01:13 <spruit11> It'll print the result of the 'main' function in standard scripts. Just use that.
15:03:47 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg; echo $'using System\n using Math\ndef main = (3+5)' > "$f"; cd /; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel "$f"
15:04:18 <spruit11> No problem. It's really nice to see some interest in my homework.
15:04:20 <wib_jonas> ``` set -e; f=/hackenv/tmp/egel-master/a0.eg; echo $'using System\n using Math\ndef main = "foo"' > "$f"; cd /; /hackenv/tmp/egel-master/src/egel "$f"
15:04:32 <wib_jonas> though say would be useful so we can print anything
15:06:02 <wib_jonas> so I'll have to build the IO library instead?
15:07:16 <spruit11> And I think it's enough if you put in the same directory as the Egel interpreter. Unsure.
15:08:58 <wib_jonas> I'll look at it some time (unless someone else does it)
15:09:17 <spruit11> No problem. I am already really pleased.
15:09:23 <spruit11> Did you read https://github.com/egel-lang/egel-tex/blob/master/semantics/semantics.pdf?
15:09:35 <spruit11> It's a bit embarrassing. In that it is trivial.
15:10:02 <spruit11> If you get the first 5 pictures you can stop reading, honestly.
15:11:21 <spruit11> I wrote it because I was a bit tired of explaining that Egel is 'just' the front-end to graph-rewrite machinery.
15:37:59 <arseniiv> thanks for the ABT link, maybe it will be useful to me too!
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16:47:46 <zzo38> kmc: YCoCg is another colour space, which can be losslessly converted to/from RGB.
16:49:20 <esowiki> [[Sandbox/td]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69867&oldid=69855 * DmilkaSTD * (+7)
17:04:40 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69868&oldid=69225 * DmilkaSTD * (-4217) Replaced content with "MineScript is a esolang inspired on the game '''Minecraft'''."
17:05:08 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69869&oldid=69868 * DmilkaSTD * (+51)
17:05:19 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69870&oldid=69869 * DmilkaSTD * (-1)
17:12:00 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69871&oldid=69870 * DmilkaSTD * (+1145)
17:12:17 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69872&oldid=69871 * DmilkaSTD * (-1)
17:14:07 <esowiki> [[MineScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=69873&oldid=69872 * DmilkaSTD * (+42)
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17:22:28 <zzo38> I have these equations (as C codes): G=(Y-(Cg>>1))&0xFF; t=(G+Cg)&0xFF; R=(t-(Co>>1))&0xFF; B=(R+Co)&0xFF; where R, G, B, and Y must be in range 0 to 127, while Co and Cg are signed 8-bit numbers. Assuming these constraints, I want to find the valid range for Cg in terms of Y, and the valid range of Co in terms of Cg and Y.
17:22:37 <zzo38> (I tried to figure it out by myself, but got confused.)
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22:15:46 <zzo38> I now notice a few more things about the equations above; one is that Co cannot be -128 (since then R+Co will not be in range).
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