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04:36:14 <zzo38> Do you like this? http://zzo38computer.org/gurpsgame/1.ui/wiki?name=Session+28
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07:32:25 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Neauoire * New user account
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07:51:47 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70076&oldid=70061 * Neauoire * (+195) Added neauoire
07:52:20 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Neauoire * uploaded "[[File:Preview.jpg]]"
07:52:29 <esowiki> [[Orca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70078&oldid=67389 * Neauoire * (+4109) Added some basic details
07:53:21 <esowiki> [[Orca]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70079&oldid=70078 * Neauoire * (+7) /* External resources */
07:56:10 <esowiki> [[Orca]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70080&oldid=70079 * Neauoire * (+115) Added extra details
07:58:58 <esowiki> [[Orca]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70081&oldid=70080 * Neauoire * (+157) /* Sample programs */
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08:47:13 <kritixilithos> ^^^ how do you store an arbitrary precision integer in orca?
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10:15:27 <HackEso> The password of the month is leapfrogging rats.
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10:58:59 <fungot> int-e: it sucks bigtime on anything requiring unboxed arithmetic by default otherwise... oh well
11:00:38 <int-e> . o O ( is there such a thing as bottom-up iterative deepening )
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12:14:21 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70082&oldid=69278 * Palaiologos * (-5) All bitops implemented!
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12:56:09 <fungot> arseniiv: but people *do*!! i want a mapreduce cluster now much to the point
12:56:10 <b_jonas> I think I just beat my personal best in impractical order to go into shops. I first went into Lidl, bought over 13 kilograms of food plus soda, some of which had to go to the freezer, then went to the DM shop next to it, and bought a single Carmex lip balm, which weighs 15 grams with packaging. That's a ratio of over 800 for impracticality.
12:57:10 <arseniiv> fungot: but isn’t one happier when they have less needs of that big a caliber?
12:57:11 <fungot> arseniiv: actually i used fractions, but that would just be
13:14:09 <int-e> . o O ( std::cout << "print solution here" << std::endl; )
13:14:19 <int-e> programming is tedious :)
13:22:36 <int-e> Err, wtf. How am I supposed to use this macro in the presence of namespaces: define l_True (lbool((uint8_t)0)) (don't answer this, I know how, I just don't like it)
13:23:31 <arseniiv> do you like a language with one-letter keywords?
13:24:45 <arseniiv> b c Class { p i field = 0; b v setField(i value) { t.field = value; } } // J
13:28:04 <int-e> arseniiv: Not really. Typing isn't really where the time goes when programming, most of the time.
13:29:10 <int-e> escpecially for keywords where muscle memory sets in.
13:29:29 <arseniiv> int-e: ah I know! (At least that’s for me too.) But some programming language creators apparently think otherwise…
13:29:53 <int-e> If you can pick a shorter *meaningful* keyword, sure, go for it.
13:29:54 <arseniiv> like you’d probably seen pub mut fn go
13:30:11 <int-e> fun vs. function I can get behind; fn is a step too far.
13:30:43 <int-e> > (\x -> x) () -- beware of hypocrisy
13:31:24 <int-e> I'm at the time in my life where I'm using a SAT solver and need a cardinality constraint.
13:33:06 <int-e> so I need a break :P
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13:48:34 <b_jonas> fungot, do you used interlaced video?
13:48:34 <fungot> b_jonas: if you send a message
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14:23:36 <HackEso> cLoAkEd: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: <hTtPs://eSoLaNgS.OrG/>. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN EfNeT Or dAlNeT.)
14:27:13 <HackEso> wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: <HtTpS://EsOlAnGs.oRg/>. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On eFnEt oR DaLnEt.)
14:28:05 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: by the way, if you rewrote your bot and want its nickname back, ping me, I'll transfer it back
14:30:34 <cloaked> thanks all, nice to meet you
14:31:56 <cloaked> I like the lime slices- very tasteful :]
14:31:59 <int-e> kspalaiologos: There's `WeLcOmE as well, for symmetry
14:32:31 <HackEso> welcom? No such file or directory
14:32:43 <HackEso> elcome o he nternational ub or soteric rogramming anguage esign nd eployment! or ore nformation, heck ut ur iki: <ttps://solangs.rg/>. (or he ther ind f soterica, ry #soteric n Fnet r ALnet.)
14:32:53 <int-e> (No symmetry there, apparently.)
14:34:43 <kspalaiologos> a friend let me run a malbolge program on his dgx2
14:34:57 <kspalaiologos> first time in my life I have seen my malbolge program run from start to end lol
14:42:49 <kspalaiologos> and I'm planning to do some interesting stuff with it
14:43:06 <kspalaiologos> like, program a tracker and use my TI-83+ as a music player
14:43:16 <kspalaiologos> because I've got a pair of headphones on 2.5mm jack lying around
14:43:40 <kspalaiologos> I thought about making a chess engine on a calculator, I've got it programmed and it plays out quite well
14:43:59 <b_jonas> how will that work? does the TI-83+ even have sound hardware that can play more than beeps?
14:44:16 <b_jonas> kspalaiologos: 600 bytes? isn't that shorter than Oscar Toledo's chess engines?
14:44:33 <b_jonas> port, sure, but you need something to generate the analog sound waves in real time behind that
14:44:47 <b_jonas> more than just beeps if you want to call it music
14:45:04 <b_jonas> I thought it was larger than that for some reason
14:45:55 <kspalaiologos> I've wrote a program that imitates a tracker, i.e. it's just single channel, no mixing, and supports no effects
14:46:39 <kspalaiologos> so I'll have mono output of up to 4 tones at a time
14:47:29 <kspalaiologos> or I can just trim sample rate of some songs to 16k or 8k (it'd sound like garabage tho)
14:49:27 <kspalaiologos> oh and I used J as a scripting language to solve a practical problem
14:49:29 <kspalaiologos> https://github.com/KrzysztofSzewczyk/ticalc/blob/master/extract.ijs
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15:19:31 <arseniiv> how can one get transparent types for functions in a language when functions can have optional parameters, a vararg, keyword parameters and keyword-only parameters? (Something like Python.) I see something like union types, tuples (these both would make optional arguments expressible: e. g. in Ceylon [A, B=, C=] ≡ [A]|[A, B]|[A, B, C]) and extensible records (for keyword arguments) but I can’t see how to combine it all nicely
15:20:51 <int-e> Hmm, is [A,C] excluded?
15:21:58 <arseniiv> yeah, as these are positional-only parameters. Or I should check…
15:22:48 <arseniiv> anyway that behaviour (for positional-only parameters) is nice for me, I think
15:22:54 <int-e> it makes sense, it's just not obvious from the syntax.
15:24:49 <arseniiv> though in Ceylon there are no keyword-only arguments, but there can be a vararg which is represented smugly as [A, B, C*] or [A, B, C+], [C*] means the usual: []|[C]|[C, C]|[C, C, C]|…
15:25:27 <arseniiv> that’s the thing I would be glad to have, in my hypothetical future language
15:26:31 * int-e wonders how to match an escape character (\e = \033) with sed.
15:27:10 <arseniiv> also I like languages with singleton tuples. They *are* useful, I see you Haskell
15:28:07 <int-e> Well, producing a raw escape character, for example using $(printf '\e'), does the trick
15:28:22 <arseniiv> int-e: thank you for showing me ##math BTW
15:32:24 <arseniiv> though that haven’t solved the original issue. But then I stumbled upon a xenwiki’s MOS page for that other person and it cleared for me that I would ultimately need a continued fraction expansion as you suggested originally, or the claim would be too strong to be true
15:35:44 <tromp> the modulo function i just wrote in lambda calculus curiously doesn't normalize for modulo 0 :-)
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15:59:08 <b_jonas> int-e: produce a raw escape character with $'\e' instead
15:59:21 <b_jonas> or just match with perl instead
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17:23:36 <arseniiv> oh well, type systems // why are you so hard // damn, nothing ever rhymes with “systems”
17:36:59 <int-e> I keep forgetting about $''.
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17:50:44 <kspalaiologos> how hard would it be to write a program generating random program with predictable output
17:50:55 <kspalaiologos> that would be able to test various parts of compiler, like optimizations and so on
17:51:06 <kspalaiologos> I'm looking mostly for existing codebase for testing an assembly-like language
17:51:19 <kspalaiologos> I know csmith, but is there something a bit simpler that would be easier to tweak?
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18:23:31 <spruit11> What was that Haskell test package again? It's about fifteen years old now I think.
18:24:39 <spruit11> https://wiki.haskell.org/Development_Libraries_and_Tools
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19:01:25 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70083&oldid=70082 * Palaiologos * (-15) god damn it man registers broke again
19:02:27 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70084&oldid=70083 * Palaiologos * (+110)
19:02:31 <int-e> So... that's another Ponder This down. (March 2020... somehow they tend to publish these early.) :)
19:05:30 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70085&oldid=70084 * Palaiologos * (+120)
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19:21:33 <esowiki> [[AT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70086 * Hakerh400 * (+1978) +[[AT]]
19:21:45 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70087&oldid=70065 * Hakerh400 * (+18) +[[AT]]
19:22:21 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70088&oldid=70066 * Hakerh400 * (+18) +[[AT]]
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19:56:53 <int-e> fungot: any progress?
19:56:53 <fungot> int-e: i just implemented
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20:03:01 <esowiki> [[AT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70089&oldid=70086 * Hakerh400 * (+442) Added a new example
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20:54:24 <esowiki> [[Eso2D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70090&oldid=69742 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+15)
20:58:41 <esowiki> [[Eso2D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70091&oldid=70090 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-20)
21:00:26 <esowiki> [[Eso2D]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70092&oldid=70091 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+37) /* Handy subprograms */
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21:28:14 <arseniiv> <b_jonas> new password in 5 hours => haahahahehehe
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21:40:34 <arseniiv> do you know any good solutions to the “covariant equality/containment problem” which is the following?:
21:40:35 <arseniiv> suppose we have a language with subtyping, co(ntra)?variant type parameters and interfaces, and that language likes immutable things
21:40:35 <arseniiv> and also there’s `interface Container<in T> { Bool contains(T val) }` which we would want to implement by an `interface Seq<out T>`
21:40:35 <arseniiv> of course we can’t do that in a simple way, as variances don’t match. We can e. g. make `interface Set<out T> : Container<Top>` where `Top` is the top type
21:40:35 <arseniiv> that’s not that good because the compiler will typecheck obvious errors like `Set<Int> s = …; return s.contains("str")` => this would always return false, which ideally is known statically
21:40:35 <arseniiv> we could abandon covariance, but that’s really unhandy when using immutable containers. We could abandon subtyping at all. Or…?
21:41:34 <arseniiv> NB: equality suffers in the same manner but at least we’re usually happy with that
21:43:49 <arseniiv> also “to implement by” may read more sensible as “to be a supertype of”
21:44:19 <arseniiv> may be read more sensibly*, sorry
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21:51:20 <b_jonas> `perl -euse Date::Manip::Date; $n=Date::Manip::Date->new("now UTC"); $p=$n->new($n->calc($n->new_delta("1w"))->printf("%Y-%m-01 00:00 UTC")); $d=$n->calc($p); print "new password in ",$d->printf(0<$d->cmp($d->new("1h"))?"%.1hys hours\n":"%.0mys minutes\n");
21:51:31 <b_jonas> (yes, I know that's not the shortest way to write that. it's a readable way.)
21:54:48 <b_jonas> I wonder if it'd be evil to make the password a spoiler, such as to a Star Wars movie that recently came out
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22:41:14 <arseniiv> b_jonas: make a spoiler to what the second next password will be(??)
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23:27:05 <int-e> fungot: will this countdown ever end?
23:27:05 <fungot> int-e: the smilies in my earlier notation
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23:48:44 <int-e> (I'm running my Ponder This program for board sizes 19 and 20... and it has a literal countdown. Unfortunately, the time taken at each stage increases exponentially (with somewhat erratic factors), so it's hard to make predictions for the ultimate running time based on the output.)
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