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03:40:09 <int-e> tromp: shouldn't BB(n) allow programs of size up to n though
03:43:04 <int-e> (but okay, it's defined for exact sizes, so such non-monotonic behavior is hardly surprising)
03:44:22 <int-e> At least BB(n+6) >= BB(n) :P
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04:52:42 <zzo38> I thought of a idea of a chess variant, where each piece has a limited allotment of non-forward moves; these are partially recovered (for all pieces on the board, including opponent's pieces too) whenever a capture occurs. The fifty move rule and repetition rules are not used.
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04:56:05 <zzo38> (The seventy-five move rule also is not used.)
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07:27:28 <tromp> int-e: you can define it either way, but this way preserves more information
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07:29:19 <tromp> and is consistent with https://oeis.org/search?q=Busy+Beaver&sort=&language=&go=Search
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11:46:40 <int-e> tromp: How difficult is showing non-termination at those sizes?
11:49:54 <int-e> Maybe I should try, hmm.
11:59:05 <tromp> int-e: i've been working on that for the past few weeks. i'll soon commit ny BB.lhs to the repo where you can see the current approach
11:59:50 <tromp> basically, during the reduction, i try to see if the current reduct by itself leads to a reduction in which it reappears as reduct
12:01:20 <tromp> it fails on some term of size 29 that I hope to cover today.
12:04:28 <tromp> ok, BB.lhs comitted
12:45:26 <int-e> So (\0 0) (\0 (\1 0)) of size 25 is the first fun term.
12:46:02 <int-e> (sorry, my code is zero-based somehow)
13:14:01 <tromp> yes, it asnwers the ultimate question of life the universe, and everything:)
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13:15:57 <tromp> i.e. what is BB(25)
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13:16:58 <tromp> oh wait, that's \(\1 1) (\1 (2 1))
13:18:10 <tromp> yours ends up at size 7?!
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13:23:06 <tromp> yours cycles, but my program currently fails to see
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13:29:48 <tromp> need to fix bug in optimize function
13:30:14 <int-e> I haven't looked at your code. playing with my own :)
13:33:17 <int-e> Okay, I had a bug as well. Now I have two funny terms of size 25, (\1 1) (\1 (1 (\2))) and (\1 1) (\1 (\2 1))
13:35:56 <tromp> both recognized as diverging by my program
13:36:10 <tromp> did you find BB(25) ?
13:36:25 <int-e> 42 based on that claim
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13:41:16 <esowiki> [[Procedure]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70538&oldid=70501 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+779)
13:43:00 <int-e> >= 42, 52, >= 44, >= 58, >= 223
13:44:03 <tromp> yes, i have same, plus equality up to size 28
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13:57:47 <int-e> Oh and >= 160 with 4 unknown terms.
13:58:08 <int-e> But obviously this is getting increasingly dubious.
14:02:11 <int-e> (But 30 looks easier than 29)
14:24:08 <int-e> Duh. Of course eta reduction is kind of helpful.
14:27:38 <tromp> i fixed the eta bug
14:30:09 <tromp> thx for unwittingly pointing that out:)
14:31:17 <tromp> we used to optimize (\2 1) to 2 instead of the correct 1
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14:42:54 <int-e> but do we want eta-reduction for this, hmm
14:43:41 <int-e> (I took "normal form" to mean beta normal form, not beta-eta normal form
14:44:26 <int-e> funny, though perhaps not all that surprising, that it didn't affect the numbers
14:51:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ThatOrdinaryGuy * New user account
15:01:07 <tromp> yes, i should use beta normal form in BB def
15:01:44 <tromp> but use eta reduction to help detect divergence
15:04:09 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70539&oldid=70527 * ThatOrdinaryGuy * (+328)
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15:12:25 <esowiki> [[D.U.C.K.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70540&oldid=65730 * ThatOrdinaryGuy * (+1) Just fixed some grammer
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15:17:18 <tromp> for me the challenge now is to prove (\1 1) (\1 (\\3 2)) diverging
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15:40:44 <esowiki> [[If the question specifies that the number of the words should be less than 3, and the number of words in your answer is larger than 3, your answer is automatically wrong.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70541&oldid=68230 * ThatOrdinaryGuy * (+1) Just fixed some grammer
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16:47:18 <esowiki> [[User:ThatOrdinaryGuy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=70542 * ThatOrdinaryGuy * (+142) added the basic framework
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17:09:04 <esowiki> [[ROTfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70543&oldid=69333 * Apollyon094 * (-106)
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23:07:05 <esowiki> [[ROTfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70545&oldid=70543 * Apollyon094 * (-1)
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23:47:46 <esowiki> [[ROTfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=70546&oldid=70545 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-13) /* Examples */
23:58:06 <HackEso> olist 1197: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas