00:01:03 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72766&oldid=72765 * Baidicoot * (+9)
00:01:26 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72767&oldid=72766 * Baidicoot * (-12)
00:03:24 <esowiki> [[Fred]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72768 * Baidicoot * (+50) Redirected page to [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]]
00:06:36 <Mysteryhunter> are there actually any german speaking/understanding here?
00:07:33 <HackEso> A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). There's also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn't been observed yet so we're not sure where it's from.
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00:17:46 <HackEso> 9774:2016-11-26 <oerjän> learn_append wegian There\'s also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn\'t been observed yet so we\'re not sure where it\'s from. \ 8971:2016-08-24 <hppavilion[1̈]> learn A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). \ 8315:2016-06-04 <shachäf> rm wisdom/wegian \ 8314:2016-06-04 <shachäf> sedlast s/member/regular/ \ 8313:2016-06-
00:18:02 <HackEso> 2/2:-06-04 <shachäf> learn A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric members. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham).
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00:43:48 <Mysteryhunter> if anyone wannajoin our new channel #MysteryNewsTV feel free to
00:44:25 <zzo38> What are you discussing there?
00:45:30 <Mysteryhunter> but we havent many users there yet thats why I asked to come over
01:18:11 <HackEso> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.
01:18:32 <Arcorann> (had to dig through my scrollback for this)
01:29:32 <Mysteryhunter> its not esoteric i just meant if u wanna talk about esoteric we also do we keep with anything interresting
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01:30:19 <Mysteryhunter> its not esoteric i just meant if u wanna talk about esoteric we also can talk about it we do we keep with anything interresting
01:31:04 <Mysteryhunter> its not esoteric i just meant if u wanna talk about esoteric we also can talk about it we keep with anything interresting
01:31:29 <Antebrationist> zzo38, I've made a little progress on the MTG fermat's last theorem.
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04:32:08 <zzo38> How big is IINL^[IINL(3)](0) compared with Skewes's number and other big numbers like that?
04:36:32 <zzo38> Increment in nested loops
04:37:48 <Arcorann> Is there a link to the function definition?
04:40:22 <zzo38> Article <1589825967.bystand@zzo38computer.org> on sci.math gives a description. I also described it before on this IRC (although I didn't call it "IINL" yet by that time).
04:41:24 <zzo38> Make a number of nested "repeat X times" loops where the number of nesting is the initial value of X (the input of the function), and inside of the innermost loop is "increment X" command. The output is the final value of X after all of those loops are finished.
04:46:12 <Arcorann> IINL(x) = f_omega(x) in the fast-growing hierarchy, if my understanding is correct
04:48:20 <zzo38> Yes, that is what I thought (or at least its Grzegorczyk index is omega), although I have not proven this.
04:50:55 <Arcorann> Which means IINL^[IINL(3)](0) lies between f_{omega+1}(3) and f_{omega+1}(f_{omega}(3)) (haven't done the full calculation)
04:56:23 <Arcorann> If we let f_0(x) = x+1 and f_k(x) be defined by repeat X times { x := f_{k-1}(x) } then f_k(x) = f_{k-1}^x(x) which is the definition of FGH
04:58:35 <zzo38> O, OK. That makes sense now
05:26:19 <zzo38> But when you get into infinite ordinals, then what? Some ordinals are limit ordinals and have no predecessor.
05:29:03 <Arcorann> Each ordinal alpha is assigned a fundamental sequence -- a sequence of ordinals which is increasing and has limit alpha
05:29:41 <Arcorann> For example, the fundamental sequence for omega (for the Wainer hierarchy) is given by omega[n] = n
05:30:46 <Arcorann> Then we have f_{omega+1}(n) = f_{omega}^{n}(n) and so on
05:34:44 <zzo38> Yes, I expected that f_{omega+1}(n) = f_{omega}^{n}(n), just I didn't know how to do according to your definition when a limit ordinal is involved because you defined it in terms of its predecessor and a limit ordinal has no predecessor.
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11:38:24 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MartinAsdf * New user account
11:41:50 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72770&oldid=72720 * MartinAsdf * (+133) /* Introductions */
11:42:11 <esowiki> [[User:MartinAsdf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72771 * MartinAsdf * (+7) Created page with "ITS ME."
11:42:23 <esowiki> [[User:MartinAsdf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72772&oldid=72771 * MartinAsdf * (+162)
11:43:36 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72773&oldid=72200 * MartinAsdf * (+6166)
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12:31:05 <esowiki> [[Eval]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72774&oldid=72759 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+55) /* Commands */
12:31:14 <esowiki> [[Eval]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72775&oldid=72774 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-110) /* Commands */
12:31:29 <esowiki> [[Eval]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72776&oldid=72775 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-12)
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12:53:06 <esowiki> [[Sclipting]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72777&oldid=45239 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-4) /* Interpreter */ update link
13:02:37 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72778&oldid=72767 * Baidicoot * (+91)
13:03:12 <esowiki> [[Thue Symbol Sorting Theorem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72779&oldid=8097 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) /* External resources */ wayback
13:10:35 <esowiki> [[Collatz function]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72780&oldid=56726 * Baidicoot * (+122) Added link for Wikipedia resource
13:28:44 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72781&oldid=72761 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-40)
13:30:22 <esowiki> [[Graverage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72782&oldid=67301 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-18) fix link
13:39:32 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/(Unnamed language)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72783&oldid=72781 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-3926) Blanked the page
13:39:39 <esowiki> [[Grapheme]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72784 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+3926) Created page with "'''Grapheme''' is an esolang by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] where the only valid characters are uppercase Latin letters. ==Memory== Grapheme uses an unbounded stack, whic..."
13:40:09 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72785&oldid=72741 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+15) /* G */
13:41:36 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72786&oldid=72760 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+74) /* Languages */
13:41:57 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72787&oldid=72785 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+11) /* E */
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13:56:27 <esowiki> [[Grapheme]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72788&oldid=72784 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+96) /* Edge cases */
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15:44:38 <esowiki> [[Grapheme]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72789&oldid=72788 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+59) /* Normal mode and funcmode */
15:51:37 <esowiki> [[Grapheme]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72790&oldid=72789 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* Normal mode and funcmode */
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16:57:35 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72791&oldid=72778 * Baidicoot * (+213) PROVEN TC
16:59:59 <esowiki> [[ Encrypted ]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72792 * Hakerh400 * (+9804) +[[ Encrypted ]]
17:00:10 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72793&oldid=72787 * Hakerh400 * (+26) +[[ Encrypted ]]
17:00:20 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72794&oldid=71500 * Hakerh400 * (+26) +[[ Encrypted ]]
17:03:39 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72795&oldid=72791 * Baidicoot * (+8) /* Turing-Completeness */
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17:48:46 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72796 * Orby * (+1544) Created page with "[[Thue]] is a string rewriting [[matrioshka language]]. That is, it is possible to define TC string rewriting languages within it. Many of the languages I have been tinkering..."
17:49:37 <esowiki> [[User:Orby]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72797&oldid=72695 * Orby * (+84)
17:56:44 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72798&oldid=72795 * Baidicoot * (+611) added 'add' example
17:58:47 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72799&oldid=72796 * Orby * (+43) /* Example */
17:59:08 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72800&oldid=72799 * Orby * (+2) /* Example */
17:59:16 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72801&oldid=72798 * Baidicoot * (+34) /* Example Programs */
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18:02:16 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72802&oldid=72801 * Baidicoot * (+135) /* Syntax */
18:02:27 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72803&oldid=72802 * Baidicoot * (-10)
18:02:56 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72804&oldid=72803 * Baidicoot * (-13) /* Example Programs */
18:13:08 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72805&oldid=72804 * Baidicoot * (+96) /* Turing-Completeness */
18:17:27 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72806&oldid=72805 * Baidicoot * (+15) /* Syntax */
18:18:23 <esowiki> [[There Once was an Esolang Named Fred]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72807&oldid=72806 * Baidicoot * (-36)
18:27:15 <esowiki> [[B^2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72808&oldid=72764 * UltimateProGrammer * (+172) Added run support note.
18:31:02 <esowiki> [[B^2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72809&oldid=72808 * UltimateProGrammer * (+146) Added link to editor
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18:34:32 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * UltimateProGrammer * uploaded "[[File:B^2 Editor New.png]]"
18:35:10 <esowiki> [[B^2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72811&oldid=72809 * UltimateProGrammer * (-22)
18:44:26 <esowiki> [[Talk:B^2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72812 * Palaiologos * (+221) Created page with "Is this an esoteric language? Looking at the goals and claims about efficiency, maybe the language doesn't really belong here? --~~~~"
18:45:47 <esowiki> [[Talk:B^2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72813&oldid=72812 * Palaiologos * (+117) computational class?
19:02:39 <esowiki> [[Funciton/Quine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72814&oldid=46122 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+28) link
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19:11:06 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/XShell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72816&oldid=71918 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+171)
19:11:20 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/XShell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72817&oldid=72816 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) /* Builtins */
19:14:50 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/XShell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72818&oldid=72817 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+62) /* Examples */
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19:38:49 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72819&oldid=72800 * Orby * (+534)
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21:16:14 <baidicoot> How does one go about relabeling a language so that it *vaguely, kind of* represents natural language? any tips/references?
21:18:07 <baidicoot> also, `multinational league for esoteric programming proliferation, protection, and protestation`?
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21:31:17 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72820&oldid=72819 * Orby * (+1254)
21:31:58 <orbitaldecay> baidicoot: There is a category on the wiki called psuedonatural. That might be a good place to start.
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21:33:55 <esowiki> [[(1) Grace sent you a message]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=72821 * Hakerh400 * (+1868) +[[(1) Grace sent you a message]]
21:34:03 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72822&oldid=72793 * Hakerh400 * (+35) +[[(1) Grace sent you a message]]
21:34:08 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72823&oldid=72794 * Hakerh400 * (+35) +[[(1) Grace sent you a message]]
21:36:11 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72824&oldid=72820 * Orby * (+6)
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21:53:12 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72825&oldid=72824 * Orby * (+643)
21:54:01 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72826&oldid=72825 * Orby * (+15) /* Examples */
21:57:46 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72827&oldid=72826 * Orby * (+8) /* As a Thue extension */
21:57:59 <esowiki> [[User:Orby/Term rewriting metalanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72828&oldid=72827 * Orby * (-3) /* As a Thue extension */
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22:17:05 <imode> is there any language/esolang that consists exclusively of parentheses? don't say lisp. :P
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22:26:23 <b_jonas> imode: brainfuck. it has three types of parenthesis: [] <> and +-
22:27:22 <b_jonas> or Incident, where every identifier appears three times like < | > with the three doing different things, and they match up and know where the other two are
22:28:25 <imode> sorry, I guess I should specify: balanced parentheses.
22:28:41 <imode> no other characters other than ( and ).
22:30:46 <imode> + and - aren't strictly balanced, neither are < and >.
22:48:55 <fizzie> https://esolangs.org/wiki/() -- it's not the easiest-to-parse description, but looking at the JS implementation, it looks somewhat likely that it requires the balance.
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23:17:43 <b_jonas> imode: I guess you could consider Amicus, since its only data types is (finite) lists that can have any length and can have any list at every element, so if you write them with just parenthesis without the commas it's unambiguous, and any balanced parenthesis sequence is a valid object
23:17:58 <b_jonas> (some of them won't work as programs, but you can only find that out in runtime)
23:18:41 <b_jonas> (there are some undefined cases in the syntax that could be used for extensions, but you can't predict without running the program if you run onto one, and any object is valid as data)
23:19:15 <b_jonas> Amycus even more so, because it has some operations to compose lists
23:21:25 <b_jonas> it still can't decompose lists, so you mostly use them to compose lists that happen to be parts of programs
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23:32:12 <spruit11> Shouldn't be hard? () = S, ()() or (()) = K, anything else braces.
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23:33:49 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/XShell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=72829&oldid=72818 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Truth-machine */
23:35:42 <b_jonas> hmm no, apparently Amycus does have some ways to deconstruct lists (if you have a bound on their length)
23:35:57 <b_jonas> I don't know how that works. probably magic.
23:38:01 <imode> is the guy who did the postfix/"forth-like" combinatory logic interpreter still here?
23:41:58 <imode> made any progress with it?
23:42:30 <orbitaldecay> I did. See the skiforth page. There is now a bootable iso.
23:43:15 <imode> interesting. what made you use postfix instead of prefix?
23:44:40 <orbitaldecay> Though I''ve since moved on to so called concatenative combinators, which are better suited for the task (see clementine). I used postfix because I thought it worked more nicely with the forth-like word definitions.
23:46:18 <imode> interesting, are you intending on using quotes or stringing stuff together via apply.
23:47:02 <orbitaldecay> The later. It has a strong postfix unlambda feel to it.
23:48:45 <orbitaldecay> Though at this point I really consider skiforth an intellectual stepping stone to clementine, which I find much more elegant
23:49:30 <imode> been trying to find the "elegance" in combinators lately, concatenative or otherwise.
23:50:06 <orbitaldecay> As skiforth doesn't support arbitrary stack manipulation, but clementine does while maintaining roughly the same level of simplicity
23:50:36 <imode> I don't have the headspace for them, I guess.
23:51:30 <orbitaldecay> I find it useful to think of them as term rewriting languages
23:52:41 <imode> trying to reconcile the imperative part of my brain with the expression-oriented part of my brain and then tack combinators on to that is a hassle. I have a rewriting language but I don't like it, because it presupposes the idea of lists of things.
23:54:07 <orbitaldecay> I started with lambda calculus and learned combinators as a simplification of that, which I think is an easier step to take
23:56:22 <orbitaldecay> I'm currently working on something that I think is going to end up being a term rewriting extension to thue
23:56:38 <imode> you'd like my language then.
23:57:11 <imode> will give you my sketch.
23:58:10 <imode> https://hatebin.com/nfyprzklqo
23:59:09 <imode> https://repl.it/repls/ShorttermGrimProjections
23:59:31 <imode> it's a rewrite language in the style of thue (no vars, just replacement rules).