←2020-07-23 2020-07-24 2020-07-25→ ↑2020 ↑all
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00:45:11 <Cale> Enchant creature. When enchanted creature dies, you may play a replacement creature card from your hand as if it had flash. If you do, return all permanents that were attached to enchanted creature from the graveyard to the battlefield under your control attached to the replacement creature.
00:45:59 <shachaf> That's neat.
00:47:44 <zzo38> That is good, but maybe make enchant permanent, and then you can play another card that shares a type with it. The other consideration is if you do not control or do not own the enchanted permanent, then?
00:50:38 <zzo38> I like the idea though.
00:51:38 <zzo38> Maybe it is supposed to work on opponent's cards and then you control the replacement, though, in which case that is OK.
00:51:44 <shachaf> i,i enchant spell on the stack
00:52:29 <zzo38> "on the stack" is redundant (an object is only a "spell" while it is on the stack), although I had that idea too.
00:53:22 <shachaf> Then you could replace a spell on the stack with another spell -- even a sorcery? -- but it would keep its existing stack position.
00:53:42 <pikhq> Cale: Oh that is _nice_
00:53:58 <pikhq> That makes other enchantments better!
00:54:58 <pikhq> shachaf: enchant spell or ability on the stack >:D
00:55:15 <shachaf> pikhq: I was considering that a bit but it seemed too far even for me.
00:56:02 <Cale> Yeah, it's a card that works for and against auras :)
00:56:30 <zzo38> I had another idea about recovering Auras: The next time a nontoken Aura dies this turn, you may cast it.
00:57:44 <shachaf> Cale: Oh, whoa, you could enchant an opponent's creature with this.
00:57:47 <shachaf> I didn't think of that.
00:58:23 <pikhq> Oooh
00:58:25 <pikhq> Sneaky
00:58:36 <zzo38> Yes, I thought of that too, which is what I was mentioning
00:58:52 <pikhq> To a lesser extent, that also works against equipment
00:59:00 <shachaf> Oh, zzo38 said that too, I missed it.
00:59:03 <pikhq> I mean you can always re-equip, but that can be costly
00:59:32 <Cale> Also stealing opponents' equipment perhaps
01:00:36 <zzo38> Equipment doesn't die when the creature it is attached to dies, so there is no effect on Equipment, I think.
01:01:16 <zzo38> But I think perhaps it should be "enchant permanent" instead of "enchant creature", and require the replacement card to share a type with it.
01:01:31 <zzo38> Also, the card as described would return itself too; is that intentional?
01:01:44 <Cale> ah, right, they wouldn't go to the graveyard, so they couldn't be returned from there
01:01:57 <zzo38> Also, I think it can be useful even if there isn't anything else attached to it, since it grants flash
01:01:59 <Cale> Yeah, I was considering excluding itself as well
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01:04:08 <Cale> But it seemed simpler to describe without that exclusion.
01:17:34 <esowiki> [[User:Salpynx/Gdelfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76182&oldid=76045 * Salpynx * (+37) /* External resources */ link to my code from late 2019
01:18:31 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Salpynx * moved [[User:Salpynx/Gdelfish]] to [[Gdelfish]]: 'publishing' this thing
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01:21:56 <esowiki> [[Gdelfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76185&oldid=76183 * Salpynx * (+126) Categories
01:26:11 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76186&oldid=76159 * Salpynx * (+35) adding my 2 0D Gdel numbering languages
01:33:15 <salpynx> That page I just moved to mainspace has a lot of maths formulas that could benefit from style review. I'm not a mathematician, and I was taking deliberate liberties with some of the notation. If anyone has any tips on improving the notation I'd be happy to learn and improve them.
01:34:55 <salpynx> Hopefully the concept comes across, the language is joke-like, but it's a moderately serious attempt to explore mathematical meta-programming ideas with fully 0-dimesional Godel numbers, and directly convert between input and output encodings
01:35:37 <salpynx> I'd be interested in reading on any related topics if anyone knows of anything
01:50:30 <salpynx> My related 'Brainfoctal' lang is basically a clone of a ridiculous number of similar bf copies, but AFAICT mine is the first and only one that doesn't make a point of being 1 dimensional, unlike Lenguage or Unary.
01:52:42 <salpynx> 0D is interesting to me because 'symbol' encoding becomes really fluid, there are (potentially) unlimited ways of viewing or processing the 'code'
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02:12:30 <shachaf> This C99 draft is dated Septermber 7, 2007.
02:12:34 <shachaf> I guess that's why it's a draft.
02:17:22 <pikhq> Must be an early one, 2099 isn't for some years yet
02:17:59 <shachaf> and Septermber hasn't even been invented yet!
02:36:45 <esowiki> [[Triple Threat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76187&oldid=53004 * Qwertyu63 * (+117)
02:51:12 <Arcorann> I read that as Comiket 99 for a second there
03:02:25 <Cale> shachaf: Morch is coming along nicely though
03:02:39 <shachaf> hi Cale
03:02:42 <Cale> hi
03:03:07 <shachaf> Are you into SAT solvers?
03:03:21 <Cale> I've never really used one
03:03:45 <shachaf> I really oughtta k-now w-ho's w-ho.
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03:43:54 <pikhq> Nor have I really used an SAT solver
04:18:05 <pikhq> I've been oddly avoidant of doing computer-type things lately for a girl who named herself "Ada"
04:18:21 <pikhq> I blame being a professional computer toucher for my day job
04:25:52 <esowiki> [[Nop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76188&oldid=66020 * D * (+22)
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04:35:02 <zzo38> How to program random schedules in cron?
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04:40:51 <pikhq> You know, that's an interesting question
04:41:33 <pikhq> I don't think you can do it easily in "standard" cron, but I don't know if it's possible in any reasonably common crons at all
04:41:37 <pikhq> Maybe? Maybe not?
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04:45:59 <sugarpie> Eschew obfuscation
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04:48:47 <salpynx> use cron to regularly schedule a task that generates a random at task , by random offset maybe?
04:54:24 <salpynx> at now + $RANDOM minutes < commands.txt but triggered by cron to make it repeating. Never tried this specifically, but 'at' is useful for non-regular scheduling
04:55:36 <salpynx> `? eschew
04:55:37 <HackEso> eschew? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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05:20:16 <pikhq> salpynx: Yeah, I guess so
05:21:17 <zzo38> Also, how to make sounds from a command scheduled with "at"?
05:22:33 <shachaf> Why is that different from other commands?
05:23:08 <zzo38> Because it does not have access to some of the things needed for that purpose, or at least that is what I have found, when I tried.
05:23:34 <zzo38> (Although I may have just made a stupid mistake, perhaps)
05:34:58 <shachaf> What things? How do you normally make sounds?
05:36:05 <zzo38> I normally use aplay
05:37:36 <shachaf> Ah. I don't know, sounds like the sort of thing you'd need to debug if it doesn't work.
05:37:48 <shachaf> Maybe aplay prints errors. Maybe at runs with different permissions?
05:39:26 <salpynx> at execute commands using /bin/sh which can be a pain if using bashism (not sure if that's what is causing your aplay problems, it might be permissions)
05:40:29 <pikhq> depends on your system though; plenty systems have /bin/sh=bash
05:41:58 <zzo38> On my computer, /bin/sh is linked to dash, and not to bash
05:42:16 <pikhq> *nod*
05:44:04 <shachaf> ptrace is such a mess.
05:50:28 <salpynx> aplay works fine with dash for me. I don't have a access to a system that has both at and aplay available simultaneously. Running aplay through at with different perms and looking for error output is a good suggestion
05:51:12 <zzo38> OK
05:53:33 <pikhq> Unfortunately, Linux audio has a lot of moving pieces
05:53:38 <pikhq> Just about anything could be broken
05:57:25 <shachaf> The pulseaudio API is so scow. :-(
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05:59:10 <zzo38> I don't like PulseAudio either, but some programs use it.
06:02:11 <myname> huh
06:02:20 <myname> pulseaudio is awesome
06:03:42 <shachaf> Have you written code using libpulse?
06:03:49 <myname> also, it's possible that aplay just refuses to play something in a noninteractive shell (even though i don't think that's likely)
06:04:09 <myname> no, but it works better than anything else before for me
06:04:25 <imode> just use the alsa compat stuff for pulseaudio and aplay will work fine.
06:05:08 <shachaf> I am, but it doesn't give you access to everything.
06:05:33 <shachaf> For example I can't figure out a way to get an event when I turn on my bluetooth headphones (and the default audio device switches to them).
06:05:46 <shachaf> So right now I poll it every 10 seconds which is p. scow.
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06:06:20 <myname> and alsa has that?
06:06:27 <shachaf> I'm not sure.
06:06:34 <myname> i doubt that
06:06:35 <imode> doubtful.
06:06:38 <shachaf> ALSA is not great either, it certainly has its problems.
06:06:50 <shachaf> But libpulse is way less pleasant and more complicated in unnecessary ways.
06:07:01 <shachaf> Also, ideally I wouldn't either libasound or libpulse, because they're both LGPL-licensed.
06:07:04 <shachaf> use
06:07:12 <myname> also, i really wanted to use orca but i fail to create a virtual midi device
06:07:28 <imode> my question is, on the *BSDs, how does firefox utilize audio?
06:07:38 <imode> you can't even use firefox without pulse.
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06:07:50 <shachaf> Failed to create a virtual MIDI device? As in a synthesizer or something for it to write to?
06:08:41 <myname> to write to it and make it play sounds
06:09:28 <shachaf> I wrote a mini synthesizer and implemented basic MIDI support to use a MIDI keyboard with it.
06:09:36 <myname> but everything i found made me use jack manually
06:09:48 <shachaf> Then I was pretty surprised when I went to a web page while it was running, and the web page outputted MIDI to my synthesizer.
06:10:09 <shachaf> That was pretty surprising! I was trying to figure out what was going on before I realized it was my program.
06:10:38 <zzo38> What if you want to use Firefox with no audio?
06:11:08 <imode> pulse is apparently still required!
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07:09:32 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76189&oldid=76186 * Salpynx * (+33) /* I */ forgot to add Isthmus Cyclicus Crypticus
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07:46:19 <shachaf> U+01DA LATIN SMALL ANGRY LETTER U [ǚ]
07:49:51 <esowiki> [[Talk:Minsky Swap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76190&oldid=76181 * Keymaker * (+483) Reply.
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08:44:30 <esowiki> [[1+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76191&oldid=76021 * TwilightSparkle * (+44)
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09:19:51 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76192 * TwilightSparkle * (+1213) Created page with "This page contains attempts on minimizing the number of 1+ instructions, similar to [[BF instruction minimalization]]. We also uses the same restrictions that is, there exists..."
09:20:33 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76193&oldid=76192 * TwilightSparkle * (-16)
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09:27:17 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76194&oldid=76193 * TwilightSparkle * (+13)
09:48:43 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76195&oldid=76194 * TwilightSparkle * (+91)
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09:50:27 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76196&oldid=76195 * TwilightSparkle * (+73)
09:54:37 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76197&oldid=76196 * TwilightSparkle * (+37)
10:02:38 <esowiki> [[1+/Snippets]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76198&oldid=75853 * TwilightSparkle * (+94) /* Easy */
10:05:28 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76199&oldid=76197 * TwilightSparkle * (+16) Links
10:20:28 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76200&oldid=76199 * TwilightSparkle * (+459)
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10:47:15 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76201&oldid=76200 * TwilightSparkle * (+308) /* Minimalization */
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11:53:30 <shachaf> If there are UNSAT certificates in practice, is there such a thing as a QBF certificate?
12:22:36 <spruit11> I guess so. Not sure they always exist though. What class is QBF in? Are there already undecidable problems there?
12:23:05 <shachaf> It's PSPACE-complete.
12:23:31 <shachaf> I'm curious whether there's anything in practice. Then again, do people even use QBF in practice?
12:24:02 <shachaf> They can probably settle for something lower in the hierarchy for a lot of things.
12:24:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76202&oldid=75360 * TwilightSparkle * (+102)
12:24:18 <esowiki> [[Rui]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76203&oldid=76117 * Sinthorion * (-2) improve formatting
12:24:24 <spruit11> Right, so it's closed under complement, I read.
12:25:04 <spruit11> I have no idea whether QBF is used in practice. Might also depend on your definition of 'practice'.
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15:04:18 <kspalaiologos> I've had an awesome idea today about osdev in pure brainfuck
15:04:30 <kspalaiologos> it's totally doable with just `+-[]<>'
15:04:54 <kspalaiologos> my initial idea was, to store an interrupt driver that would watch over tape MMIO regions and issue an interrupt when the conditions are met
15:05:09 <kspalaiologos> now, the question arises, how do I execute x86 machine code using brainfuck
15:05:17 <kspalaiologos> I have came up with a genius idea of hooking the 0x1Ch interrupt
15:05:25 <kspalaiologos> the timer interrupt will call the machine code located on the tape
15:05:45 <kspalaiologos> because that's where I'll set the handler to be
15:06:40 <kspalaiologos> I can hook interrupts just by performing memory read/write
15:07:32 <kspalaiologos> say, tape is located at 0x0000:0x5000
15:07:44 <kspalaiologos> when I boot, I write the driver code to the tape, then rewind back to the start
15:08:06 <kspalaiologos> and then I navigate 5000x left and then adjust to entry `0x1Ch' in the interrupt table
15:08:26 <kspalaiologos> the problem here is that I need to clear the interrupt flag, otherwise bad things may happen, I haven't found out a way of doing so so I guess I'll just have to rely on the fact that nothing breaks
15:21:31 <t20kdc> kspalaiologos: I do have a theoretical idea - require a no-op timer handler to be setup, and then place the real one 0x100 bytes away, so you can inc/dec to control timer interrupt enabledness
15:21:48 <kspalaiologos> I can't require anything
15:21:52 <kspalaiologos> this has to be _pure_ brainfuck
15:22:16 <t20kdc> you have to have an interpreter which enables interrupts, surely
15:23:59 <kspalaiologos> nope, I compile my brainfuck to C
15:24:09 <kspalaiologos> I put the tape on 0x0000:0x0500
15:24:28 <kspalaiologos> `+` => `tape[mp]++;` `-` => `tape[mp]--;` etc...
15:24:30 <HackEso> ​+`? No such file or directory
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16:01:05 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76204&oldid=72347 * Palaiologos * (-7)
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16:21:08 <esowiki> [[Minsky Swap]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76205&oldid=76136 * Caenbe * (+604) /* Computational class */ Added non-TC proof
16:32:46 <esowiki> [[Selmotic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76206&oldid=76164 * Caenbe * (+433) /* Consequences */ Changed this section to Computation class and expanded a bit
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17:40:51 <esowiki> [[User:Caenbe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76207&oldid=76163 * Caenbe * (+211)
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19:37:37 <esowiki> [[User:Caenbe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76208&oldid=76207 * Caenbe * (-62)
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20:42:00 <zzo38> I think that Solar Hijri calendar is good if you will use anno mundi (but a new scientific kind of anno mundi, rather than the old kind) instead of Hegira.
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23:01:05 <adu> is there a channel for grammar?
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23:03:09 <zzo38> I don't know, but if you have a question about grammar then I suppose you can ask
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