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00:44:33 <esowiki> [[User talk:Caenbe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76209 * TwilightSparkle * (+141) Created page with "Are you the Caenbe on ConwayLife.com? ~~~~"
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02:42:49 <esowiki> [[1+/Minimalization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76210&oldid=76201 * TwilightSparkle * (+22)
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03:02:05 <esowiki> [[Subreal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76211&oldid=76144 * RocketRace * (+272) Begin detailing surreal literals
03:22:46 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76212&oldid=75813 * TwilightSparkle * (+16575)
04:16:07 <esowiki> [[Talk:Subreal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76213 * TwilightSparkle * (+112) Created page with "RIP JHC. ~~~~"
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06:54:29 <esowiki> [[Bitwise Cyclic Tag]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76214&oldid=67190 * Salpynx * (+103) /* External resources */ Arithmetic BCT over HTTP
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09:24:43 <int-e> . o O ( TFW you join an IRC channel to ask a question, and then solve your problem while trying to formulate said question. It acted kind of like a virtual teddy bear. )
09:25:03 <HackEso> 1/1:888) <olsner> Gregor: are you in the brony documentary? \ 1017) <oerjan> i vaguely thought sigbovik was all jokes? <Bike> oerjan: jokes written by CS people, so none of it's funny, just sad
09:26:11 <int-e> (Wow, that contraction makes me cringe.)
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10:04:42 <int-e> shachaf: Yes, in that particular context.
10:05:22 <shachaf> Hmm, it reads as pretty standard to me, but I can see what's unusual about it.
10:05:41 <int-e> so none of (it's) funny is in conflict with (so none of it) is funny
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10:06:28 <shachaf> (I can't tell whether my attempt at replicating it worked.)
10:06:48 <shachaf> Are those two different parsings? Maybe I don't follow.
10:07:40 <int-e> The "is" referse to all if "so none of it", but in the contraction, "it's", the implied "is" only refers to the "it", to my mind. It's entirely possible that it's me who's wrong there.
10:07:41 <fizzie> int-e: You just need to think like the C preprocessor and expand the contractions before thinking about things like that.
10:08:21 <esowiki> [[Ral]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76215&oldid=71229 * Herman-L * (-346) Update the quine with a shorter one
10:08:47 <int-e> > reverse "refers"
10:09:07 <shachaf> I think the word "so" is outside of all that.
10:09:43 <shachaf> Speaking of which, precedence climbing/Pratt parser/etc. is a pretty neat trick.
10:09:45 <int-e> shachaf: you're right
10:10:03 <shachaf> Can it be adapted to Agda-style mixfix parsing?
10:10:15 <shachaf> My guess is that the answer is approximately yes.
10:10:43 <shachaf> I think Agda-style mixfix even lets you define parentheses as a mixfix operator, rather than part of the syntax.
10:12:40 <shachaf> I should also figure out how the shunting-yard algorithm works, because people say it's the same trick.
10:13:46 <shachaf> I like how this approach automatically handles prefix, infix, postfix, etc.
10:14:24 <shachaf> The other question is: If you can define precedence within a file, how does that change your parser? Especially if you can define it *after* the use of an operator, as in Haskell.
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10:14:49 <shachaf> Does that just force you to do things the way GHC does, where you fix up the precedence after parsing?
10:16:08 <b_jonas> shachaf: probably. Rust uses a forced many-stage compiler too because it has too many definitions that act backwards in the file.
10:16:24 <shachaf> Nothing related to parsing, though, is there?
10:17:05 <b_jonas> I think you have to parse heads before expressions in function bodies
10:18:17 <b_jonas> I'm not sure how the fine points of its grammar work, it's designed really badly with ugly ambiguities
10:19:09 <b_jonas> function heads as in most of the stuff outside the body of the function, so you know the name of the function and whether it is generic etc
10:19:50 <b_jonas> I'm probably saying something wrong here
10:19:54 <shachaf> Man. I thought they were a bit more creful than that.
10:20:09 <b_jonas> it's not as bad as I imply
10:20:13 <shachaf> I don't know. Rust has all sorts of problems.
10:21:11 <b_jonas> I'm just trying to tell my impression of how it has like a dozen problems that each could independently have been avoided by a bit better syntax
10:21:38 <b_jonas> but no, they always choose the worst syntax and figure they can work it out later
10:21:56 <b_jonas> and it's too late to fix most of them now
10:22:29 <b_jonas> I like rust's semantics, but its syntax is terrible for that
10:23:06 <b_jonas> we should try to make an alternate syntax for it
10:23:43 <shachaf> And alternate semantics, too.
10:24:08 <b_jonas> no, we have that. the alternate semantics is C++
10:24:27 <b_jonas> whose syntax also has some problems of course
10:25:16 <shachaf> No way, I don't want C++ semantics either.
10:25:39 <shachaf> They are trying to do pretty similar things anyway.
10:25:42 <b_jonas> you could even merge the two semantics, with C++ as default but you can mark variables, member variables, and pointers as rust-style owning semantics
10:26:35 <b_jonas> that wouuld lose you rust type-generics though
10:28:03 <b_jonas> it doesn't work well really
10:30:23 <b_jonas> if you make alternate semantics, what makes it still rust-like?
10:32:25 <b_jonas> by alternate syntax I mean one where you make enough compromises that you can not only link it with rust but also directly use rust crates and get the bindings, and backwards, like how rust editions work now. But with much more radical syntax changes.
10:33:31 <shachaf> I also don't like Rust crates.
10:33:54 <shachaf> I installed a few Rust programs and they downloaded zillions of crates and the build directory was quite a bit over 1GB.
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11:48:48 <b_jonas> shachaf: yes, but luckily you don't have to use the crate system, or any of those shitty dependency hell packages
11:49:06 <b_jonas> you can use it as just the compiler and programming language, without the build system and religion associated to that
11:49:27 <b_jonas> just a you don't need any of the huge frameworks to write C or C++ programs
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12:25:17 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76216&oldid=76212 * TwilightSparkle * (+11) /* Bad program */
12:31:25 <int-e> shachaf: tbf the same thing happens in any language that comes with a sanctioned package retrieval/management tool... Haskell+cabal-install (and now stack) suffers similarly.
12:32:38 <b_jonas> I think I mentioned that the few times
12:33:14 <b_jonas> CPAN modies that have to install thirty dependencies, ten of which are required only for a documentation coverage test in a dependency module
12:33:26 <int-e> Perl used to be fine there... I guess there's also a general lack of care for bandwidth and space and auditability.
12:35:23 <b_jonas> it's not the bandwidth that bothers me there
12:36:29 <int-e> Time to marvel at https://www.npmjs.com/package/ansi-red again.
12:36:51 <b_jonas> also, I'm shopping for a new keyboard now
12:36:54 <int-e> And its number of weekly downloads.
12:37:10 <b_jonas> I'm typing that so that this keyboard knows that I WILL replace it if he doesn't behave
12:37:42 <int-e> So you think it enjoys being touched all the time?
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12:47:38 <Arcorann> Make sure the keyboard doesn't rebel on you --> http://www.scp-wiki.net/grant-request-for-a-replacement-keyboard-because-the-caps-lo
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13:11:52 <ddt94> Sorry, what do you mean with esoteric???
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15:56:44 <esowiki> [[Serenity]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76217&oldid=76020 * Hakerh400 * (+2010) Add few more examples
15:59:27 <esowiki> [[Serenity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76218&oldid=76217 * Hakerh400 * (+0)
16:01:41 <esowiki> [[Boolshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76219&oldid=76169 * Hakerh400 * (+409) /* I/O */ Update I/O format spec
16:10:17 <esowiki> [[Serenity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76220&oldid=76218 * Hakerh400 * (+0) /* Instructions */
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