00:16:33 -!- imode has joined.
00:28:04 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
00:33:44 <fizzie> Hmf. Can't seem to convince Chrome to pass this client certificate to a server. It worked fine with `curl --cert cert.pem --key key.pem https://...`, and `openssl pkcs12 -export -out foo.p12 -in cert.pem -inkey key.pem -name foo` created a file that could be imported into Chrome, but it shows up on the list as "UNTRUSTED" (maybe normal), and Chrome doesn't show up any certificate picker when trying to
00:33:50 <fizzie> connect. Chrome's internal netlog says ERR_BAD_SSL_CLIENT_AUTH_CERT, which (ssl_client_socket_impl.cc) seems to mean "certificate was requested, but had none to send".
00:33:53 <fizzie> I have a feeling maybe Chrome wants this to be signed by a CA that's in the trust store or something (it's self-signed). But who knows. The state of client certificate authentication is such a mess.
00:34:36 -!- spruit11 has joined.
01:20:18 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:25:18 -!- t20kdc has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:59:03 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:00:35 -!- hendursaga has joined.
04:28:55 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
04:29:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
04:30:16 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
04:31:21 <esowiki> [[Talk:Stax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76758&oldid=76748 * TwilightSparkle * (+338)
04:58:06 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:17:23 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:20:29 -!- hendursaga has joined.
05:25:25 -!- tromp has joined.
05:29:56 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:56:18 <zzo38> Why did the designers of PNG include the prediction type bytes in the same stream as the picture data? Since they are two different data, that probably wouldn't cause it to be compressed as well as putting them separately, I think.
06:01:53 <zzo38> The value of the pixel
06:03:33 <myname> what sense would it make to put that at the end of the image? you know the values by then
06:05:37 <zzo38> Yes, unless you require partial decoding.
06:20:23 -!- kritixilithos has joined.
06:37:51 <zzo38> In any huffed format, if some values are known to be not meaningful in some positions, and when reading the bits all of the meaningful values have the same value for a bit, then it can skip encoding that bit, I think.
06:38:15 <zzo38> (If it is designed for that; I don't know of any format that is, other than some that I have experimented with making)
06:38:53 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split).
06:38:53 -!- orbitaldecay has quit (*.net *.split).
06:38:54 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split).
06:38:54 -!- erdic has quit (*.net *.split).
06:39:24 <zzo38> Do you know if some does?
06:42:31 <zzo38> A similar thing would also be possible with prediction, for example in picture compression depending on the colour space some values might be meaningless in some places, so the prediction can know that such a value will not occur.
06:43:45 -!- Frater_EST has joined.
06:43:45 -!- FreeFull has joined.
06:43:45 -!- orbitaldecay has joined.
06:43:45 -!- kmc has joined.
06:43:45 -!- erdic has joined.
06:45:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:58:03 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:58:29 -!- kritixilithos has joined.
07:01:24 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
07:04:43 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:06:53 -!- arseniiv has joined.
07:07:13 <esowiki> [[Enterprise]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76759 * Joaomilho * (+2522) Created page with "Enterprise defines itself as a "non-deterministic-unnecessarily-statically-typed Turing-complete-ish, [https://github.com/joaomilho/Enterprise/issues/41 Quantum-out-o..."
07:07:57 -!- adu has joined.
07:08:56 <esowiki> [[Enterprise]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76760 * Joaomilho * (+88) Created page with "For the Enterprise language, redirect [https://esolangs.org/wiki/Enterprise here]."
07:10:34 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76761&oldid=76745 * Joaomilho * (+20)
07:11:27 -!- kritixilithos has joined.
07:32:17 -!- tromp has joined.
07:50:23 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (*.net *.split).
07:50:23 -!- imode has quit (*.net *.split).
07:53:03 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:59:58 -!- kritixilithos has joined.
08:09:05 -!- hendursa1 has joined.
08:11:43 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:20:48 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
08:22:12 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
08:22:12 -!- imode has joined.
08:24:44 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:26:34 -!- hakatashi has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:27:54 -!- hakatashi has joined.
08:28:34 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
08:29:51 -!- arseniiv_ has joined.
08:32:27 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
08:40:26 -!- kritixil1 has joined.
08:42:03 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:59:04 <int-e> `learn Cattitude is a combination of pride, entitlement, indifference, and cruelty that humans can never hope to achieve.
08:59:06 <HackEso> Learned 'cattitude': Cattitude is a combination of pride, entitlement, indifference, and cruelty that humans can never hope to achieve.
09:14:30 -!- tromp has joined.
09:34:56 -!- spruit11 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:35:11 -!- spruit11 has joined.
10:08:45 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
10:09:20 -!- spruit11 has joined.
11:20:03 -!- kritixil1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:27:38 <b_jonas> zzo38: but it's not just a huffed stream, it's a deflated stream, and you need those prediction types as you decode the image data from top to bottom and the encoder figures them out as it encodes the image from top to bottom
11:28:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: and as it's a deflated stream, not a huffed stream, compressing it together with the pixel data makes slightly more sense, and gives a simpler implementation
11:34:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: PNG is an old format, so simple implementation was important so that you can decode a PNG on cheap old devices
11:37:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: constrast this to JPEG, which does huffmanize DCT coefficients (with some species RLE cases for runs of zeroes). Traditionally JPEG encoded all coefficients together in the same huffmanized stream, which isn't too efficient. But they fixed that later with progressive JPEG. Almost all JPEG decoders, except a few cheap phones, can decode that now. Progressive JPEG splits coefficients to groups,
11:37:40 <b_jonas> each of which is encoded in its own huffmanized section, with possible separate encodings, which both reduces files size and gives better outputs for partially decided streams.
11:38:33 -!- kritixil1 has joined.
11:43:17 <esowiki> [[User:TwilightSparkle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76762 * OsmineYT * (+156) Created page with "created this page bc the user didn't had it -- ~~~~"
11:44:04 <esowiki> [[Jsfunc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76763&oldid=72954 * OsmineYT * (+9)
11:44:50 <esowiki> [[User:OsmineYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76764&oldid=76731 * OsmineYT * (-22)
11:45:02 <esowiki> [[User:OsmineYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76765&oldid=76764 * OsmineYT * (+1)
12:11:46 -!- t20kdc has joined.
12:14:02 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1).
12:14:22 -!- hendursaga has joined.
12:41:15 -!- adu has joined.
12:46:03 -!- kritixil1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
12:50:33 -!- kritixil1 has joined.
13:50:55 -!- craigo has joined.
13:58:06 -!- kritixil1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:34:26 -!- kritixil1 has joined.
14:46:26 -!- kritixilithos has joined.
14:46:43 -!- kritixil1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
14:49:06 -!- kritixil1 has joined.
14:51:23 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:00:41 -!- Arcorann has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:18:36 -!- imode has joined.
16:28:54 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
16:31:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
16:31:11 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
16:56:18 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, I know that. But my other question was not only about PNG.
16:59:31 <zzo38> (Also, what I mentioned about meaningless values isn't applicable to PNG anyways; all pixel values are meaningful, unless you are for some reason using prediction filters for indexed colours, which isn't normally done.)
17:00:24 <zzo38> (The prediction types themself do have meaningless values; one way they could do without complicate the decoder much is to ignore the high bits of the prediction type byte)
17:06:06 <b_jonas> zzo38: prediction filters are useful for indexed colors, if your image has a lot of areas of solid color
17:06:24 <b_jonas> because deflate already compresses that well
17:06:30 <b_jonas> but they're not entirely useless
17:08:36 <zzo38> I think other formats (e.g. Maki-chan, and YZIP picture libraries) that use prediction for indexed colours use XOR filters for prediction instead, though.
17:10:57 <zzo38> YZIP picture format uses huffed RLE of the XOR filtered data. What algorithm for reordering the palette (including duplicates, if that would be helpful) would help to optimize this?
17:37:45 <HackEso> 1/1:484) <fizzie> "Do a sea monster while whatever." \ 838) <pikhq> Conext coyou'll cotell come cothat coyou cocan't coprefix coeverything cowith co"co". <oerjan> pikhq: coof urse conot!
17:40:43 * pikhq is coproud of that
17:42:00 <int-e> I draw the line at coconut and coworker jokes.
17:42:38 <int-e> Everything beyond that is just abstract nonsense.
17:46:22 <pikhq> I like abstract nonsense
17:46:33 <pikhq> As my college studies can attest
17:46:36 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76766&oldid=76244 * Digital Hunter * (+146) /* Advanced techniques */ functions, to be continued
17:46:40 <int-e> https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/8/20/21377305/postal-service-steve-bannon-arrest is interesting. And then there's that tweet they cite: "The Postal Service has police? That’s really pushing the envelope."
17:47:29 <int-e> b_jonas: I described a closed set, not an open one.
17:48:19 <pikhq> Does a double-co cancel out?
17:48:24 <pikhq> Is a co-co-nut just a nut?
17:48:36 <int-e> pikhq: that is the joke.
17:48:42 <int-e> It's funny because coconuts are not nuts.
17:48:52 <pikhq> nor are peanuts, and yet
17:49:26 <int-e> pikhq: Let's agree on "funny" then.
17:50:08 <int-e> An office worker moves items from the TODO pile to the DONE pile. A coworker...
17:50:21 <b_jonas> where are cocoons in that set?
17:50:33 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76767&oldid=76766 * Digital Hunter * (+114) /* Logic flow */
17:50:43 <int-e> b_jonas: Outside, I think.
17:55:32 <int-e> I want a truth in cookie related messages law.
17:55:35 <int-e> "We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website."
17:56:13 <pikhq> "we use cookies because fuck you"
17:56:35 <int-e> Yeah, that's how I read it.
18:00:10 <int-e> https://blog.apnic.net/2020/08/21/chromiums-impact-on-root-dns-traffic/ <-- At which point does this qualify as distributed denial of service?
18:03:07 <arseniiv_> hi it seems there are no illustrated videos about mathematically defined spinors for people not too keen with maths
18:03:29 <arseniiv_> that’s pretty bad as we have a general theory for a long time
18:03:30 <zzo38> Add message such as "Cookies and JavaScripts are not needed for this web page." and then add a link to a message to explain how to disable JavaScripts
18:03:32 -!- arseniiv_ has changed nick to arseniiv.
18:10:58 -!- aaaaaa has joined.
18:13:38 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
18:15:36 -!- kritixil1 has quit (Quit: quit).
18:51:37 -!- Frater_EST has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:52:42 <esowiki> [[Talk:Psychairefatback (Archive)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76768 * Ashtons * (+679) Created page with "== Oof == I'm going to be honest, it kinda hurt a bit (in a good way) to see that someone actually liked my idea for an esoteric language and decided to archive it when past..."
18:52:55 -!- Frater_EST has joined.
19:12:55 <esowiki> [[User:Ashtons]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76769&oldid=68832 * Ashtons * (+269)
19:27:49 -!- hakatashi1 has joined.
19:29:29 -!- hakatashi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:29:57 -!- craigo_ has joined.
19:30:56 -!- spruit11 has quit (Ping timeout: 269 seconds).
19:31:09 -!- spruit11 has joined.
19:32:26 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:54:12 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:28:35 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76770&oldid=76767 * Digital Hunter * (+96) /* Example programs */
20:49:18 <esowiki> [[Surtic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76771&oldid=76770 * Digital Hunter * (+1298) /* Advanced techniques */
21:16:37 <esowiki> [[Talk:Psychairefatback (Archive)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76772&oldid=76768 * Ashtons * (-1)
21:43:44 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8).
21:51:12 -!- Melvar has joined.
22:46:25 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:48:20 -!- MaryMagdalene has joined.
22:48:27 -!- MaryMagdalene has left ("Leaving").
22:48:31 -!- MaryMagdalene has joined.
22:48:37 -!- MaryMagdalene has left ("Leaving").