02:14:06 -!- sprocklem has quit (Quit: ...).
02:30:43 -!- sprocklem has joined.
02:48:46 -!- sprocklem has quit (Quit: ...).
02:49:32 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: rebooting).
02:50:41 -!- FreeFull has joined.
03:24:09 -!- sprocklem has joined.
03:40:12 -!- sprocklem has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
03:45:49 -!- xelxebar has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:46:07 -!- xelxebar has joined.
03:50:56 -!- sprocklem has joined.
04:23:20 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
04:34:56 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:34:56 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
04:36:15 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
04:45:16 -!- adu has joined.
05:47:04 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
05:48:57 -!- ais523 has joined.
05:50:27 -!- ais523 has quit (Client Quit).
05:50:40 -!- ais523 has joined.
06:00:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
06:01:01 -!- kritixilithos has joined.
06:51:05 -!- imode has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:15:46 -!- xelxebar has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in).
07:16:18 -!- xelxebar has joined.
07:31:29 -!- moony has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:32:42 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:39:14 -!- moony has joined.
07:59:37 -!- rain1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
08:00:08 -!- rain1 has joined.
08:10:45 -!- hendursa1 has joined.
08:12:23 -!- hendursaga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:25:15 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving).
09:01:02 -!- arseniiv has joined.
09:26:02 -!- cpressey has joined.
09:26:52 <int-e> ^8ball is it a good morning?
09:27:32 <int-e> I can't decide whether I'm lucky or unlucky here :P
09:29:24 <int-e> How do you pronounce "o/"?
09:29:33 <int-e> ^8ball is it a o/ morning?
09:29:36 <int-e> ^8ball is it an o/ morning?
09:29:43 <int-e> Ah it doesn't matter. Phew :)
09:30:35 <int-e> fungot: Can you dance for us?
09:30:36 <fungot> int-e: you didn't have to insert ( values x) and ( b)
09:56:56 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76831&oldid=76827 * SunnyMoon * (-1) Golfed the truth-machine a bit.
10:07:00 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76832&oldid=76307 * SunnyMoon * (+44) New language!
10:15:44 -!- Soni has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
10:28:17 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76833&oldid=76831 * SunnyMoon * (+4) br tag!
10:48:11 -!- Soni has joined.
10:54:25 -!- t20kdc has joined.
10:57:21 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76834&oldid=76833 * SunnyMoon * (+22) Added some links.
11:12:21 <cpressey> The use of the word "infinite" in phrases like "infinite loop" and "infinite list" seems a bit... uninformative. These are definitely on the "potentially infinite" side of things, not the "completed infinity" side of things. How about "ω-loop", "ω-list", how d'you like those.
11:13:01 <myname> what do you mean by completed infinity
11:15:46 <cpressey> I think I mean what is conventionally meant by the phrase when mathematicians use it conventionally
11:16:41 <myname> i never heard that phrase
11:17:40 <cpressey> Wikipedia's article on it is called "Actual infinity", which might be the more common phrase, but I've heard both
11:19:07 <myname> but that page explicitly names natural numbers. and an infinite list is pretty easily injectively mappable onto those
11:20:07 <cpressey> One can certainly regard the naturals as potentially infinite, can't one?
11:20:51 <myname> i don't get what point this definition is trying to make. are countable infinities "actual" or not? if so, why not when N is?
11:24:57 <cpressey> I guess if one talks about "countable infinities", presumably versus "uncountable infinities", one has, like Cantor, already concluded they're "actual".
11:25:08 <rain1> it should be called a non-terminating loop
11:25:13 <rain1> it is not infinite, but it does not stop
11:25:24 <rain1> (actually it will stop, but only in practice not in theory)
11:28:34 <FireFly> I guess "infinite loop" is a bit of a misnomer...
11:32:41 <cpressey> I can't really see how "infinite list" would still be acceptable terminology if "infinite loop" isn't, though. The list is not infinite, it just does not end.
11:34:28 <cpressey> Or the other way around, you could easily have an infinite list of successive configurations of an executing Turing machine; if that list is "really infinite" then the loop that the TM is in is "really infinite" too.
11:35:25 <esowiki> [[User:OsmineYT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76835&oldid=76765 * OsmineYT * (-22)
11:36:28 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * OsmineYT * moved [[User:OsmineYT]] to [[User:Osminee]]: "Changed" nickname
11:36:28 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move * OsmineYT * moved [[User talk:OsmineYT]] to [[User talk:Osminee]]: "Changed" nickname
11:38:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * OsmineYT * moved [[User:Osminee]] to [[User:OsmineYT]] over redirect: Undid previous move operation
11:38:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir * OsmineYT * moved [[User talk:Osminee]] to [[User talk:OsmineYT]] over redirect: Undid previous move operation
11:38:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * OsmineYT * OsmineYT deleted redirect [[User:OsmineYT]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[User:Osminee]]"
11:38:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir * OsmineYT * OsmineYT deleted redirect [[User talk:OsmineYT]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[User talk:Osminee]]"
11:58:12 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76844&oldid=76834 * TwilightSparkle * (-20) /* Syntax */ This is confusing.
11:58:37 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: Lunch.).
12:04:32 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76845&oldid=76844 * TwilightSparkle * (+1) /* Hello world */
12:07:38 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76846&oldid=76845 * TwilightSparkle * (+26) /* Syntax */
12:23:50 -!- adu has joined.
12:43:19 -!- hendursa1 has quit (Quit: hendursa1).
12:43:34 -!- hendursaga has joined.
12:43:52 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76847&oldid=76846 * SunnyMoon * (+65) A note
12:44:10 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76848&oldid=76847 * SunnyMoon * (+1) .
12:51:16 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76849&oldid=76848 * TwilightSparkle * (-23) /* Even or odd */ Golfed
13:04:42 -!- cpressey has joined.
13:30:01 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76850&oldid=76849 * TwilightSparkle * (-10) /* Even or odd */ Forgot...
13:35:31 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76851&oldid=76850 * TwilightSparkle * (-4) /* Snippets */ Improved
13:51:56 <kritixilithos> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24257630 ppcg's collaborative polyglot of 200+ langs got posted to hn
13:57:04 <esowiki> [[User:Masldobehere]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76852&oldid=76820 * TwilightSparkle * (-29)
13:58:42 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76853&oldid=76851 * SunnyMoon * (-8) Replaced a snippet with a better variant (Thanks, TwilightSparkle)
14:04:59 -!- Arcorann_ has joined.
14:06:22 -!- Arcorann has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
14:08:48 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76854&oldid=76853 * TwilightSparkle * (+169) /* LOLOL */
14:29:51 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
14:36:00 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76855&oldid=76854 * TwilightSparkle * (-43) /* Snippets */
14:36:55 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76856&oldid=76855 * TwilightSparkle * (-5) /* Even or odd */
14:46:16 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.8).
14:47:14 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
14:52:42 -!- cpressey has joined.
14:55:49 -!- Melvar has joined.
15:08:07 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:12:11 -!- iovoid has joined.
15:14:14 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76857&oldid=76856 * SunnyMoon * (-6) The not gate can be shorter!
15:21:47 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76858&oldid=76857 * SunnyMoon * (-1) Golfed the parity program a tiny bit more.
15:22:26 -!- olsner has quit (*.net *.split).
15:22:27 -!- imode has joined.
15:22:42 -!- tswett[m] has quit (*.net *.split).
15:22:42 -!- dingwat has quit (*.net *.split).
15:22:42 -!- ^[_ has quit (*.net *.split).
15:22:43 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split).
15:22:43 -!- moony has quit (*.net *.split).
15:22:43 -!- glowcoil has quit (*.net *.split).
15:22:44 -!- dnm has quit (*.net *.split).
15:23:45 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76859&oldid=76858 * SunnyMoon * (+57) Clarification
15:24:46 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76860&oldid=76859 * SunnyMoon * (-1) Tiny mistake! :P
15:32:15 -!- olsner has joined.
15:33:57 -!- tswett[m] has joined.
15:33:57 -!- dingwat has joined.
15:33:57 -!- ^[_ has joined.
15:33:57 -!- ski has joined.
15:34:10 -!- moony has joined.
15:34:10 -!- glowcoil has joined.
15:34:10 -!- dnm has joined.
15:36:45 -!- adu has joined.
15:39:50 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:03:21 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1).
16:19:57 -!- kspalaiologos has joined.
16:20:20 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:36:46 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
16:37:45 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:39:41 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
16:51:02 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
17:01:55 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck code generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76861&oldid=67106 * Masldobehere * (+40) added STBF to Languages that compile to BF
17:21:29 -!- LKoen has joined.
17:35:40 -!- xelxebar has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:36:45 -!- xelxebar has joined.
17:42:47 -!- craigo has joined.
17:46:04 -!- b_jonas has joined.
17:46:28 -!- Lymia has quit (Quit: Hugs~ <3).
17:49:56 -!- Lymia has joined.
18:09:50 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zdrmonster1 * New user account
18:12:37 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76862&oldid=76814 * Zdrmonster1 * (+274)
18:15:32 <HackEso> olist https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1212.html: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
18:20:41 <esowiki> [[Brotlipython]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76863&oldid=76524 * Osmarks * (+21) add .py.br extension
18:54:05 -!- kritixil1 has joined.
18:55:43 -!- kritixilithos has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:02:41 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76864&oldid=75835 * Zdrmonster1 * (+69)
19:05:32 -!- kritixil1 has quit (Quit: quit).
19:07:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:07:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:09:16 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76865 * Zdrmonster1 * (+568) Created page with "'''DirectBrainFUCK''' is a BF like programming language, but you can directly move the pointer.<br> However, the number of cells has to be limited to either 64 or (if some int..."
19:09:42 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76866&oldid=76865 * Zdrmonster1 * (+12)
19:13:42 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76867&oldid=76866 * Zdrmonster1 * (-41)
19:15:08 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76868&oldid=76867 * Zdrmonster1 * (+7)
19:15:46 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76869&oldid=76868 * Zdrmonster1 * (+3)
19:17:13 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76870&oldid=76869 * Zdrmonster1 * (+28)
19:18:52 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76871&oldid=76870 * Zdrmonster1 * (+0)
19:19:01 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76872&oldid=76871 * Zdrmonster1 * (+0)
19:19:09 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76873&oldid=76872 * Zdrmonster1 * (+1)
19:20:41 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76874&oldid=76873 * Zdrmonster1 * (+27)
19:21:03 <esowiki> [[DirectBrainFUCK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76875&oldid=76874 * Zdrmonster1 * (+8)
19:37:02 -!- rain1 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:37:26 -!- rain1 has joined.
20:12:15 -!- kspalaiologos has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:34:53 <b_jonas> I was wondering if that's some variant of mount and umount
20:35:14 <b_jonas> it sounds like a syscall name that does something related to mount points
20:44:03 <arseniiv> the famous WinAPI functions MountA and MountW from kernel32.dll
20:45:49 <arseniiv> and also GetMountainRangeEnumeratorEx^W^W^W
21:03:57 <t20kdc> I don't think those functions exist, not because MountA and MountW don't fit Windows naming style,
21:04:05 <t20kdc> but because such a function would be too simple for Windows
21:04:44 <t20kdc> Look at the difference between the Windows memory-mapping API versus the Unix memory-mapping API to understand what I mean by that
21:15:11 <b_jonas> t20kdc: they don't fit current naming conventions, but some very old functions in winapi have bad names inherited from windows 16 api, the worst offenders being graphics primitives like Arc, Chord, Ellipse, Escape, Pie, Polygon, Rectangle: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/wingdi/
21:15:53 <t20kdc> b_jonas: to be clear, MountA/MountW do fit the naming conventions I've seen so far
21:16:42 <b_jonas> they've narrowly avoided having a function called "Bar", that was actually used in some very old graphics libraries for I think filled rectangles
21:17:44 <b_jonas> there's also Beep https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/utilapiset/nf-utilapiset-beep
21:20:15 <t20kdc> all of this stuff feels relatively mundane in comparison to CreateFileMappingA, which doesn't actually memory-map a file, it merely creates an intermediate, useless object
21:21:31 <b_jonas> and on linux, the shutdown system call doesn't shut down the computer or has anything to do with that, to shut down the computer the final step is the reboot system call
21:22:37 <t20kdc> to be clear: CreateFileMappingA isn't useless in that it isn't a part of mapping a file - it is, in fact a mandatory one
21:23:23 <b_jonas> shutdown is also not useless
21:23:30 <t20kdc> the useless part is that it basically involves repeating the information you then have to give - with the file mapping object - to MapViewOfFile
21:23:57 <t20kdc> i.e. the mmap-equivalent is a 2-step process which involves CreateFileMappingA, then MapViewOfFile
21:24:20 <zzo38> Well, shutdown(2) and shutdown(8) are unrelated
21:25:44 <t20kdc> as for shutdown... I wonder if the reason Windows adopted the BSD sockets API was because it was sufficiently over-complicated
21:26:16 <b_jonas> and at one point I mentioned that on linux, you open and possibly create a file with the open syscall, the creat syscall also does that but it's obsolete and should never be used; on windows you open and possibly create a file with the CreateFile syscall or its variants, the OpenFile syscall also used to do that but it's obsolete and should never be used.
21:29:42 <t20kdc> ...ah, yes, I can tell that OpenFile should never be used, because it's actually a relatively simple function (but has some name length issues)
21:31:14 <t20kdc> looks at CreateFile and I can tell that this is Microsoft-recommended because it has... way too many parameters (though see CreateFile2 which has less of them, but is also Windows 8+)
21:58:28 -!- LKoen_ has joined.
22:00:39 -!- LKoen has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:24:55 <arseniiv> I wouldn’t know, I mostly saw WinAPI function names a while ago and rarely
22:25:16 <t20kdc> arseniiv: I occasionally have to interact with the Windows API when porting stuff
22:25:46 <t20kdc> in practice, accounting for the things SDL2 successfully paves over, there are two APIs that one has to deal with: Not-Windows and Windows
22:40:34 -!- arseniiv has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
23:00:36 -!- Arcorann_ has joined.
23:01:10 -!- Arcorann_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:01:36 -!- Arcorann_ has joined.
23:04:26 <zzo38> You can use #ifdef if needed, as well as making your own compatibility layers, or writing for Windows and using Wine to run it on Linux, or writing for Linux and using WSL to run it on Windows, or using a kind of VM code, are some possibilities. Which is suitable depends on the program being written, I think.
23:08:38 -!- LKoen_ has quit (Quit: “It’s only logical. First you learn to talk, then you learn to think. Too bad it’s not the other way round.”).
23:42:18 <zzo38> Does any version of SDL have a environment variable for auto zoom?
23:45:06 <zzo38> The list of environment variables for SDL 1.2.15 doesn't mention any such thing
23:57:46 -!- t20kdc has quit (Remote host closed the connection).