00:20:19 <Sgeo> zzo38, do you have any thoughts about the Gemini protocol? (I feel like someone asked you that before, but I only learned of Gemini today, because of a mention of a client being written in Racket)
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00:25:27 <Sgeo> Hmm https://gemini.circumlunar.space/clients.html looks more styled than is possible for a text/gemini document
00:25:38 <Sgeo> (Text other than the link on the same line as the link)
00:42:20 <Sgeo> Hmm, I think I'd prefer if the MIME type and whether it's likely to initiate a query was part of a URL
00:42:59 <Sgeo> GemiNaut seems to try to guess that say, a link is to an image, but it has to be a guess (unless it's prefetching which it shouldn't be)
00:52:46 <zzo38> Sgeo: I did try it on the ssh. One thing that I think of Gemini is that there should be a unencrypted version, perhaps "pgemini://" (the default can be encrypted; that is fine).
00:53:06 <zzo38> If you prefer the type and if it initiates a query to be a part of the URL, there is Gopher, which does that.
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01:00:19 <zzo38> Although maybe there could be an optional specification in the URL to indicate that; if the specification is wrong, then the client displays an error message.
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01:57:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Connerylang * New user account
02:00:53 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76876&oldid=76862 * Connerylang * (+185)
02:24:38 <esowiki> [[Connery]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76877 * Connerylang * (+1745) Created Connery page
02:27:47 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76878&oldid=76809 * Connerylang * (+14) Added Connery
02:31:04 <esowiki> [[Connery]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76879&oldid=76877 * Connerylang * (+334)
02:34:42 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76880&oldid=76860 * TwilightSparkle * (+198) /* Syntax */
02:34:53 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76881&oldid=76880 * TwilightSparkle * (-23) /* Undocumented instructions */
02:39:33 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76882&oldid=76881 * TwilightSparkle * (+58) Author is not unknown at all...
02:40:33 <esowiki> [[Connery]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76883&oldid=76879 * Connerylang * (+300) Added infobox
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02:42:55 <esowiki> [[Connery]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76884&oldid=76883 * Connerylang * (-68) removed cell based because I'm not sure it fits
02:46:17 <esowiki> [[ArnoldC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76885&oldid=72913 * Connerylang * (+25) Added Connery influence
02:52:46 <esowiki> [[Connery]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76886&oldid=76884 * Connerylang * (+7) fixed typo
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07:03:21 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76890&oldid=76878 * Hakerh400 * (+18) +[[Halticopter]]
07:03:24 <esowiki> [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76891&oldid=76340 * Hakerh400 * (+18) +[[Halticopter]]
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07:38:18 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76892&oldid=76882 * SunnyMoon * (+88) Inserted important fact.
07:41:08 <int-e> ^8ball will it finish?
07:41:18 <int-e> ^8ball will it finish in time?
07:41:38 <int-e> I don't believe it.
07:42:32 <zzo38> What are you trying to finish in time?
07:43:28 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76893&oldid=76892 * SunnyMoon * (+3) Commenting is actually very easy!
07:43:54 <int-e> zzo38: working on something for http://www.research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/challenges/August2020.html
07:45:54 <int-e> (The small size, 0 <= a,b,c <= 10, but I think it's still too computationally expensive. And I see no way to prove interesting lower bounds except by brute force.)
07:48:21 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76894&oldid=76893 * SunnyMoon * (-11) If the question mark is defined, this might spark some confusion.
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09:01:20 <esowiki> [[Talk:!@$%^&*()+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76895 * TwilightSparkle * (+332) Created page with "== A seperate algorithm page? == To keep things cleaner, the main page should only contain the specs and a seperate algorithms page should be created similar to 1+/Snippets..."
09:02:38 <cpressey> On the subject of potential infinity w.r.t. computer programs, it occurs to me that one could make a good argument that the most appropriate language in which to make statements like "this program will never stop" or "calling tail() on this list will always return another list", is temporal logic.
09:07:52 <cpressey> Or perhaps even "Given a potentially infinite list L of potentially infinite lists of digits, the potentially infinite list of digits formed by taking the diagonal and inverting it will never appear in L".
09:21:35 <int-e> so you're seeing a connection between kripke frames and coinduction, I suppose.
09:23:15 <int-e> But meh, my modal logic knowledge is very weak.
09:24:22 <myname> okay, so what was the esocrypt channel about?
09:25:51 <int-e> Hmmm cryptozoology?
09:26:13 <int-e> (In case it isn't obvious: I don't know.)
09:36:05 <rain1> it's nice that we can imagine programs that run infinitely long
09:41:36 <myname> how so? isn't it pretty obvious that this is possible?
09:42:41 <int-e> myname: We can dream.
09:42:55 <int-e> Also we do like the idea of eternity.
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09:43:07 <int-e> We like it so much that we've built religions around the very concept.
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09:46:35 <int-e> myname: but it's pretty obvious that it's *not* possible ;)
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09:52:00 <rain1> we cant make algorithms that do it but we can mathematically analyse them
09:57:23 <myname> int-e: why not? i mean, yeah, technically we are limited by the end of the universe, but is that really a difference?
09:58:07 <int-e> myname: I think it is.
09:58:17 <int-e> And for most purposes it's much sooner.
09:58:36 <cpressey> I don't expect my laptop to last until the end of the universe, that's for sure
09:59:25 <myname> and even if not, you could transfer the computation to another laptop, if you design your system around that
10:00:18 <int-e> Next power outage, next RAM failure, next computer upgrade, year 2036, year 2038, everybody who cared is dead, including extinction of all humans (probably long before Earth cools down and becomes uninhabitable)...
10:00:34 <rain1> like the natural numbers, i think algorithms are all about finiteness
10:00:54 <myname> how are natural numbers about finiteness?
10:00:55 <rain1> but they are infinite in some way too
10:01:00 <rain1> induction for example
10:01:01 <int-e> All these things will happen long before a gnab gib (if there is one, which I think is currently the favored theory)
10:01:24 <int-e> myname: every natural number is finite
10:01:38 <myname> yeah, but the set of all of them is not
10:01:50 <int-e> or so we like to think because non-standard models are hard to grasp.
10:01:56 <esowiki> [[Talk:!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76896&oldid=76895 * SunnyMoon * (+244) Yes
10:02:44 <int-e> myname: But you're making a leap of faith when you say that you can collect natural numbers like Pokemon.
10:03:02 <cpressey> What I'm talking about has nothing to do with physical limitations; it's far more to do with whether you can say things like "the set of all of the natural numbers" sensibly. That there is a completed infinity.
10:03:13 <int-e> I'm happy to allow that but we're leaving the physical realm when we do so.
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10:04:30 <int-e> It's all imagination. A different society could label all mathematicians as clinically insane; I don't see an objective argument against that :P
10:05:05 <cpressey> The closest to an objective argument against that that I've seen is that mathematics is "unreasonably effective", i.e. just amazingly useful
10:05:17 <cpressey> Just so really good at figuring out how many apples you owe Jane
10:06:15 <int-e> Yes, it's somehow useful, which indeed explains why mathematics is tolerated (but not exactly respected) by society.
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10:13:27 <cpressey1> int-e: I know a tiny bit about temporal logics, and other modal logics. I recently learned there is a modal logic (called S4 I think?) that corresponds *exactly* with the general definition of topology. Which is pretty neat.
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10:14:12 <cpressey1> But modal logics do seem a little less attractive somehow, than classical logic, to me.
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10:16:14 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76897 * TwilightSparkle * (+239) Created page with "This page provides common code snippets for easy [[!@$%25^%26*()%2B|!@#$%^&*()_+]] programming, inspired by [[Brainfuck algorithms]]. == Comment == xx_+()+ == Decrement ==..."
10:16:53 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76898&oldid=76897 * TwilightSparkle * (+22) /* Comment */
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10:23:12 <cpressey> Anyway it's not that I philosophically *reject* completed infinity -- as a formalist I can't, and wouldn't want to, stop anyone from writing theorems about exotic cardinalities, it's just that I'm not entirely convinced that they mean anything. More to the point, I don't seem to find a use for completed infinity in any of my interests. I think I could get by happily with only potential infinity at my
10:23:59 <cpressey> (And if I could somehow define potential infinity using temporal logic, all the better. But that's largely aesthetics.)
10:24:24 <cpressey> (OK, arguably this is mostly aesthetics, but whatever.)
10:39:37 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76899&oldid=76894 * SunnyMoon * (-544) Provided path to algorithms page.
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11:06:29 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76900&oldid=76898 * SunnyMoon * (+837)
11:08:27 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76901&oldid=76900 * SunnyMoon * (+4)
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11:22:46 <esowiki> [[Talk:!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76902 * TwilightSparkle * (+213) Created page with "== Too Trivial == The multiplication thing looks 2trivial4me. Almost all stack-based language have this... ~~~~"
11:23:58 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76903&oldid=76901 * TwilightSparkle * (-183) /* Subtraction */ Algorithms page are not for these stuff
11:24:18 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76904&oldid=76903 * TwilightSparkle * (-157) /* Multiplication */
11:25:34 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76905&oldid=76899 * TwilightSparkle * (-5)
11:25:43 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76906&oldid=76905 * TwilightSparkle * (-10) /* See Also */
11:29:29 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76907&oldid=76904 * SunnyMoon * (-72) Alright...
11:33:56 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+/Algorithms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76908&oldid=76907 * TwilightSparkle * (-55) /* Push zero */ "Push zero" sounds clear enough for me. Also what is "to be used for later"?
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12:48:05 <esowiki> [[!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76909&oldid=76906 * SunnyMoon * (+0) I am clearly embarrassed about this mistake
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20:07:35 <esowiki> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=76911 * SunnyMoon * (+388) Can we?
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20:11:16 <esowiki> [[Talk:99 bottles of beer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=76912&oldid=76911 * SunnyMoon * (-5) Grammar Fix
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