00:11:44 <esowiki> [[Algebraic Programming Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78249&oldid=72349 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+30) /* Builtins */ Add an Exponentiation operator
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00:56:45 <fizzie> Why must consumer router software be so horrible? Been poking around the firmware of my ISP's bundled box, which I don't normally use but had to plug in for diagnostics, which immediately slurped in a firmware update on first boot (over plain HTTP, even) so I got an image to look around in.
00:57:18 <aaaaaa> fizzie: why any other software is that horrible? Why firefox updates so often?
00:58:38 <fizzie> I don't think other software is as horrible, in general.
00:59:30 <aaaaaa> when I boot windows 10, it updates each time, as well as dropbox client
01:00:07 <int-e> But updates don't mean that the software is horrible, per se.
01:00:22 <fizzie> I don't think update frequency is really that big of an issue.
01:00:23 <int-e> It might just be big and get incremental improvements in various areas.
01:00:52 <fizzie> I only mentioned the update because it's what got me to start looking around.
01:01:08 <aaaaaa> maybe, but frequent updates is a sign that developers in constant hurry
01:01:08 <int-e> Consumer routers are cheap and not expected to last long, and the software development is bound to be feature-driven.
01:01:33 <int-e> You outsource each feature to one or two CS students ;)
01:01:51 <fizzie> I did the same exercise on the router I got from an ISP back in Finland a decade ago, and so far it seems to have been equally terrible.
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01:03:48 <fizzie> Okay, to be fair, the hardcoded root account's password is no longer trivial. That old one was "ztedebug:ztedebug", this new one I don't even know the actual password to, just a md5-crypt hash.
01:05:10 <int-e> have you googled the hash?
01:05:23 <fizzie> Yes, but I didn't find much.
01:05:35 <fizzie> (Also the line in the boot script that starts telnetd is commented out, so it might be you can't really do much with that account, assuming the web interface doesn't use the system accounts.)
01:06:17 <fizzie> (If it does, it might well have a different hardcoded account though.)
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05:05:17 <esowiki> [[5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78250&oldid=78210 * RocketRace * (+376) @
05:07:42 <esowiki> [[5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78251&oldid=78250 * RocketRace * (+221) Document all implementations
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06:53:06 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Byronknoll * New user account
06:56:22 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78252&oldid=78238 * Byronknoll * (+156)
07:06:29 <esowiki> [[Turing Paint]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=78253 * Byronknoll * (+729) Created page with "'''Turing Paint''' is a visual [[esoteric programming language]] in which programs are represented using images. Six colors can be used: black, white, red, green, yellow, and..."
07:13:09 <esowiki> [[Turing Paint]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78254&oldid=78253 * Byronknoll * (+28)
07:15:00 <esowiki> [[Turing Paint]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78255&oldid=78254 * Byronknoll * (-45)
07:19:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Byronknoll * uploaded "[[File:Turing Paint.png]]"
07:20:02 <esowiki> [[Turing Paint]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78257&oldid=78255 * Byronknoll * (+74)
07:21:47 <esowiki> [[Turing Paint]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78258&oldid=78257 * Byronknoll * (+0)
07:23:26 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78259&oldid=78237 * Byronknoll * (+19) Adding Turing Paint
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08:49:37 <esowiki> [[Minasm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78260&oldid=78236 * OsmineYT * (+0) COP
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09:47:53 <fizzie> b_jonas: No. Or at least I saw no evidence of that. The boot script does mention an ftpd though. Should maybe check what ports are open if I actually boot it.
10:06:07 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah. and perhaps check both from the LAN port and the internet connection side, and both ipv4 or ipv6, because if the router software were designed sanely, then they might restrict listeneres that the ISP use only to the interfaces and/or protocols that they use to control your router
10:06:27 <b_jonas> it needn't be on the default port obviously
10:07:58 <b_jonas> though looking for stupid bugs in the user-facing web configuration interface, like those infamous stupid ones that let you run any shell command without authentication, might be more productive
10:08:51 <b_jonas> fizzie: also, have you searched online for other people testing this ISP's modem router?
10:09:24 <fizzie> I'm almost certain it's going to have at least one shell injection problem in the web interface, because the other one had more than I could count.
10:09:54 <fizzie> Though I guess it's theoretically possible they've learned something since then.
10:10:23 <b_jonas> maybe this time it will only have shell injection that checks your password first?
10:11:13 <fizzie> Could be, but if it has a hardcoded debug account with an unchangeable password, that's not too great either.
10:11:27 <fizzie> (I don't know if it counts as a modem when it's only got Ethernet ports in it.)
10:11:47 <b_jonas> aren't those accounts for two different interfaces though? your password for the interface intended to the customer; hard-coded debug account for the interface intended for the ISP
10:12:55 <b_jonas> only ethernet ports => ah ok, you have a point. I am using one with a COAX cable towards the ISP's side, but I heard one of the two other ISPs does have one of the ethernet ones
10:13:22 <fizzie> Not necessarily. At least the previous one had one for the normal web interface, which wasn't even listening on the WAN side.
10:14:18 <b_jonas> fizzie: and was that debug login always active, or only right after a reset until you change your password?\
10:14:31 <b_jonas> because a debug account after a reset might make sense
10:21:00 <b_jonas> but I guess you can't test that
10:21:22 <fizzie> It worked when I tried it (after having set my own password for the normal "admn" account), so I think it was always on. Not really sure what its purpose was.
10:21:52 <fizzie> Can't test anything regarding that specific router-modem (it had a DSL thing), I no longer have it.
10:23:57 <fizzie> On the ISP side, I think they've got that standard remote configuration thing, TR-069.
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11:33:00 <kspalaiologos> have there been any attempts at esolangs with graphs / trees as their primary data structure?
11:43:35 <fizzie> I was also writing something a little less tarpitty, but didn't really finish that.
11:43:50 <fizzie> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Grasp
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12:02:37 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: does https://esolangs.org/wiki/Treehugger count? its data memory is a binary tree (with the two children distinguished)
12:03:13 <wib_jonas> I mean it's shaped as an infinite complete binary tree, and programs write or read symbols in the nodes
12:06:34 <esowiki> [[Treehugger]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78261&oldid=49906 * B jonas * (+8) damb see also
12:09:09 <wib_jonas> kspalaiologos: apparently there's https://esolangs.org/wiki/Hydra which uses ordered (non-binary) trees
12:10:42 <wib_jonas> and you can find more if you use the https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Search to search for "tree" or "graph"
12:11:31 <wib_jonas> there's https://esolangs.org/wiki/Punctree by arseniiv
12:12:10 <wib_jonas> hehe, "Computational class: To be announced"
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19:01:47 <b_jonas> I installed the new home speaker. the bass sound is not particularly good, but then I'd probably need a larger and more expensive speaker to get better bass sound
19:02:01 <b_jonas> the sad part is that tiny earbuds can do better bass sound than this
19:14:13 <b_jonas> it's getting more suspicious, because I saw a bright blue flash and heard a silent pop, as if something sparked in it
19:14:18 <b_jonas> it's still apparently working
19:14:27 <b_jonas> but this doesn't inspire confidence
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22:22:32 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78262&oldid=77937 * Tetrapyronia * (+931) Added PokBattle
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23:10:29 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Debry * New user account
23:11:35 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78263&oldid=78252 * Debry * (+91)
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23:18:32 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zorilla * New user account
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23:21:42 <esowiki> [[Turing Paint]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78264&oldid=78258 * Byronknoll * (+18)
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23:42:48 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=78265&oldid=78263 * Zorilla * (+137)
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