←2020-12-05 2020-12-06 2020-12-07→ ↑2020 ↑all
00:39:03 <esowiki> [[A0A0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79201&oldid=79168 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) /* Implementations */ wayback, list
00:51:39 <esowiki> [[Noodle Soup]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79202&oldid=71057 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+18) /* Hello World */ lk
01:08:39 <b_jonas> this will be the first Christmas that I won't be celebrating while being in person together with my brother. it's a bit sad.
01:09:02 <b_jonas> we'll still have some internet stuff of course
01:28:53 <fizzie> Oddly enough, we've spent the last five Christmases here in the UK without meeting any family, but now we're planning on doing the video call thing, even though we could've done that any of the past years.
01:37:07 <b_jonas> it's been mixed for us, there were two non-consecutive years where we spent christmas at my brothers' in Sweden, which has the drawback of not being able to spend one day around christmas with my grandma
01:39:38 <zzo38> Someone who wishes to help for testing with Free Hero Mesh can compare with the behaviour of the EKS Hero Mesh; you will need the 16-bit Windows shareware version of Hero Defiant or Falling Hero (I think the 32-bit versions disable the class editor if you do not register, but the 16-bit versions still allow it to be used).
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01:55:51 <zzo38> What exactly is "VCC+GIGICAR 1989 !!"? Some Amiga music files contain this as the title, and they are not all the same music.
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01:57:27 <zzo38> (They do not all identify the same composers either)
02:03:09 <fizzie> The database says there are two Frenchpeople with those names, http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/author.php?id=3895 and http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/author.php?id=36020 -- so perhaps that's related somehow.
02:09:29 <zzo38> Yes, maybe it is related.
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08:31:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Cybertelx * New user account
08:34:10 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79203&oldid=79164 * Cybertelx * (+238)
08:35:23 <esowiki> [[User:Cybertelx]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=79204 * Cybertelx * (+106) Created page with "Hi guys! I'm Cybertelx, the creator of a programming language known as Dick, published on npm as Dicklang."
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09:16:16 <esowiki> [[Dick]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=79205 * Cybertelx * (+1757) dick
09:17:20 <esowiki> [[Dick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79206&oldid=79205 * Cybertelx * (+63) added some clarification
09:21:27 <esowiki> [[Dick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79207&oldid=79206 * Cybertelx * (+106) added categories
09:22:21 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79208&oldid=79178 * Cybertelx * (+11)
09:23:02 <esowiki> [[Dick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79209&oldid=79207 * Cybertelx * (-28) remove joke lang
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11:25:38 <int-e> wtf is up with all those languages without any form of control flow
11:26:19 <imode> which ones.
11:27:19 <int-e> imode: are you ignoring esowiki? The latest addition is https://esolangs.org/wiki/Dick which is about as terrible as it sounds, maybe more so.
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11:27:30 <imode> yeah..
11:27:49 <int-e> imode: I'm not blaming you, but in this case you lost relevant context :)
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11:28:22 <imode> it's less of a hard ignore, more "I just don't see it anymore".
11:28:25 <imode> my eyes glaze over it.
11:28:37 <delta23> why is that language in the TC category?
11:29:02 <imode> why did someone think that was a worthy addition.
11:29:07 <int-e> presumably cluelessness on part of the author
11:29:30 <int-e> and that may answer both questions, actually
11:31:01 <delta23> lots of low effort joke esolangs on the wiki
11:33:56 <esowiki> [[Pointless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79210&oldid=75241 * Int-e * (+0) speling of category
11:34:25 <delta23> "speling" :)
11:35:43 <esowiki> [[*]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79211&oldid=75203 * Int-e * (+0) category spilling
11:37:19 <esowiki> [[Cheems]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79212&oldid=77575 * Int-e * (-1) catypogory
11:38:29 <esowiki> [[QTTRPG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79213&oldid=77578 * Int-e * (-20) remove unpopulated category
11:39:17 <esowiki> [[Complack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79214&oldid=77804 * Int-e * (-20) remove non-category
11:39:49 <esowiki> [[Categorial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79215&oldid=77006 * Int-e * (-66) remove non-category
11:40:54 <esowiki> [[5D 5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel With Multiverse Time Travel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79216&oldid=76511 * Int-e * (-66) remove non-category
11:42:42 <esowiki> [[Absurd Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79217&oldid=68937 * Int-e * (-38) remove non-category
11:43:07 <int-e> I guess that's the worst offenders from https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Categories&offset=&limit=500
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11:44:47 <int-e> Not sure how I feel about graph-based... it could be viable actually if it were to encompass the graph rewriting ones
11:47:08 <esowiki> [[Dick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79218&oldid=79209 * Int-e * (-10) not TC
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12:30:28 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RSG4908 * New user account
12:33:24 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79219&oldid=79203 * RSG4908 * (+295)
12:35:21 <esowiki> [[User:RSG4908]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=79220 * RSG4908 * (+141) Created page with "Hello. I'm RSG4908. I currently do not have my own esolang yet, but I am currently at this hour, trying to come up with an esoteric language."
12:41:19 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, the wiki is full of those. both ones with penis jokes https://esolangs.org/wiki/PenisScript https://esolangs.org/wiki/La_We%C3%A1 and stuff without control flow
12:41:19 <rain1> I might do last years aoc
12:41:23 <rain1> i keep hearing about the intcode
12:47:51 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Skyespr * New user account
12:49:59 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79221&oldid=79219 * Skyespr * (+167) added Skyespr's introduction
12:51:40 <esowiki> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79222&oldid=77766 * Skyespr * (-190) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */ removed MLA idea after making it
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12:53:53 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79223&oldid=79208 * Skyespr * (+12) added MLang
12:56:32 <esowiki> [[MLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=79224 * Skyespr * (+9024) Created page, added readme from github because I didn't feel like typing the whole thing again
13:00:53 <esowiki> [[MLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79225&oldid=79224 * Skyespr * (+31) formatting
13:02:32 <esowiki> [[MLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79226&oldid=79225 * Skyespr * (+2)
13:04:34 <esowiki> [[MLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79227&oldid=79226 * Skyespr * (+47)
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13:22:24 <esowiki> [[UClang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=79228 * RSG4908 * (+1411) Create UClang language page
13:24:16 <esowiki> [[UClang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79229&oldid=79228 * RSG4908 * (-74)
13:24:19 <esowiki> [[MLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79230&oldid=79227 * Skyespr * (+86) added output
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13:24:55 <b_jonas> day 6 of Aoc 2020 is easy enough too. but then, it could get more difficult any day.
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13:26:12 <esowiki> [[MLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79231&oldid=79230 * Skyespr * (+8) formatting
13:26:22 <esowiki> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79232&oldid=79089 * RSG4908 * (+13)
13:28:04 <esowiki> [[UClang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79233&oldid=79229 * RSG4908 * (+10)
13:29:19 <esowiki> [[MLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79234&oldid=79231 * Skyespr * (-8)
13:31:43 <esowiki> [[UClang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79235&oldid=79233 * RSG4908 * (+1)
13:32:24 <esowiki> [[Talk:UClang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=79236 * RSG4908 * (+130) Created page with "can we rename this page to UClang*? okthxbyte --~~~~"
13:33:32 <esowiki> [[UClang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79237&oldid=79235 * RSG4908 * (+31)
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13:47:04 <esowiki> [[UClang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79238&oldid=79237 * RSG4908 * (+25)
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13:50:15 <fizzie> I think I'm mostly unsatisfied by all the part twos being pretty much the same as the corresponding part ones so far.
13:52:42 <int-e> yeah
13:53:10 <int-e> though I foolishly did today's union by concatenating strings
13:53:30 <int-e> so the difference is a tiny bit larger than it could be
13:58:50 <b_jonas> fizzie: I don't think they're the same. they sound similat but are always a bit harder to atually solve.
13:59:39 <b_jonas> int-e: I don't think that's foolish
14:00:44 <b_jonas> and I still wonder what happens if a traveler answers no to all questions.
14:03:18 <int-e> ...oh, they specified the set of all questions... that corner case didn't come up.
14:08:18 <rain1> th e problem today did not excite me
14:08:27 <fizzie> The way I did today, literally the only difference between parts 1 and 2 was the choice of a boolean operator and initial value. And on day 3, part 2 was just "run part 1 five times". And on day 2, part 2 was arguably easier.
14:10:08 <fizzie> I liked most those puzzles last year where part 1 was solvable by just implementing the spec given in the calendar in the most straightforward way, but in part 2 that was obviously computationally infeasible, so you had to come up with something else. Unless you had overengineered part 1 already, of course.
14:12:39 <fizzie> https://adventofcode.com/2019/day/16 and https://adventofcode.com/2019/day/22 being prime examples (though non-prime numbers) of that kind of thing, except of course you presumably can't see part 2 if you didn't do last year.
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14:15:05 <b_jonas> fizzie: maybe you're better at guessing what the twist (second part) will be. I don't try to guess or make my first solution more complicated than it needs to be. today, I used one dictionary for the original, adding each letter, without bothering to do anything special between lines; for the twist I needed to use two dictionaries, the first collecting the letters of a line, the second intersecting the
14:15:11 <b_jonas> lines.
14:15:53 <Arcorann> I agree, there haven't been any really challenging part 2s so far this year (day 4 was just tedious) -- I think we're all waiting for the difficulty to pick up
14:16:37 <int-e> FWIW, I realized that I only started AoC in the 10th day last year... so maybe that's why this year feels trivial so far
14:16:44 <int-e> s/in/on/
14:17:09 <b_jonas> fizzie: day 3 was the closest, though I personally converted for a one-pass read-compute to a two-pass read then compute solution, that wasn't really necessary. the first day needed to change from one loop with a dictionary to a nested loop with a dictionary, so definitely more complicated.
14:17:22 <b_jonas> day 2 indeed also barely changed.
14:18:19 <int-e> day 5 had identical code (none) :P
14:19:31 <fizzie> int-e: Mmmaybe. 2019 had the Intcode thing going on pretty early on, which was interesting in a different way, but it's true that e.g. day 4 2019 was very similar to this year so far.
14:20:21 <fizzie> And https://adventofcode.com/2019/day/6 was pretty simple though I generally like the graph-y ones more.
14:20:51 <b_jonas> int-e: for day 5, I had one line of code for the original (to convert from binary to decimal), but like ten lines of code for the twist
14:21:40 <int-e> b_jonas: I just inspected the sorted list manually
14:22:13 <int-e> and I'm not sure I'd have been faster writing code... probably not
14:22:24 <fizzie> I was going to say, it's quite possible the shell oneliner "solution" would've been the one for the leaderboards.
14:22:26 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, but then how do you get from a binary number to a decimal number that you enter in the field?
14:22:39 <b_jonas> int-e: inspecting the sorted list would work, sure
14:22:49 <int-e> dc <<<2i1010101101p
14:23:01 <b_jonas> I didn't do that because I wanted to know that there's only one number missing
14:23:12 <int-e> I didn't care
14:23:34 <b_jonas> I generally want to test and verify that the data is like what I expect. it doesn't matter for AoC, but for things I do at work it *does* help.
14:23:44 <b_jonas> because the data is very often not what it's supposed to be
14:23:45 <int-e> I picked the first gap in the list and submitted
14:23:53 <b_jonas> yes, I guess that makes sense for AoC
14:24:42 <int-e> in retrospect I should've converted to decimal, sorted, and then looked for the gap... might have saved half a minute because scanning decimals is easier
14:25:02 <int-e> (for no better reason than familiarity)
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14:25:33 <b_jonas> int-e: nah, it might be easier to find the gap in the last column of binary than in decimal
14:25:41 <b_jonas> since it's just two digits alternating
14:27:21 <int-e> Today somebody did both parts in 1m27s... I wonder what kind of automation they have
14:27:27 <int-e> and what sort of templates
14:28:11 <b_jonas> I didn't sort for the original btw, because the letters don't sort naturally. F=0 B=1 sorts backwards, L=0 R=1 sorts forwards. I just grepped for ^BBB and a few more greps later I found the last one.
14:28:30 <b_jonas> a sort could work if you tr first.
14:28:46 <fizzie> I imagine something like a Python repl with a few utilities like "read blank-line-separated paragraphs" would make a competitive AoC environment, at least for the simple ones.
14:29:00 <b_jonas> int-e: I guess you could at least automatically download the input from the webpage
14:29:22 <b_jonas> plus you could do way less verification than I do and submit the first attempt at an answer without checking
14:29:50 <b_jonas> but that only helps for a speed competition, which I don't care much about, for the real world work guessing wouldn't work well
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14:39:22 <b_jonas> by the way, in task 4 twist, several people have passports where the issue year or expiry year or both are many years before their birth year, but all those passports are denied in the twist for other reasons
14:39:45 <b_jonas> but nobody brought a passport that expired before it was issued
14:40:40 <b_jonas> this mostly happens in passports with the birth year in the future, but there's one with byr:1983 iyr:1958 eyr:1979
14:41:21 <b_jonas> the people who bring that sort of fake document should probably get arrested and questioned, not merely denied their entry to the airplane
14:45:29 <b_jonas> many people also have nonexistant country codes, but the spec explicitly says to ignore that, so that's fine
14:45:48 <b_jonas> in fact actual country codes seem to be rare
14:59:17 <int-e> fizzie: you're definitely right though that Intcode made last year's AoC more likely to appeal to esolangers. And we did discuss the power of Intcode quite a bit back then.
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15:16:45 <b_jonas> `random-pizza
15:16:47 <HackEso> random-pizza? No such file or directory
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15:27:22 <b_jonas> fungot, does Horn Drill bypass normal damage calculation rules?
15:27:22 <fungot> b_jonas: ' i still don't like it," said ridcully. he scratched his chin with his free hand into a grinder? this place deserves vorbis! sheep deserve to be caught.
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15:47:20 <fizzie> int-e: b_jonas: Just to put some numbers on this, here's the median time in seconds to get one/two stars for the top 100s: http://ix.io/2GRX
15:47:23 <fizzie> The big numbers on 2020 day 1 are I think a problem when releasing the puzzle (that's why it awarded no points), and I think there's been some of those in the past too.
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16:08:33 <esowiki> [[UClang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79239&oldid=79238 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+21) wikilink, cat, /
16:09:53 <esowiki> [[Talk:UClang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79240&oldid=79236 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+258) reply
16:15:13 <b_jonas> fizzie: wow, that's a big table
16:15:28 <b_jonas> nice
16:23:23 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79241&oldid=79182 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-219) Minification
16:23:42 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79242&oldid=79241 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+134) /* weivrevo egaugnaL */ min
16:24:13 <esowiki> [[UClang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79243&oldid=79239 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) /* Instructions */ tb
16:25:52 <esowiki> [[NDBall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79244&oldid=79126 * Aspwil * (+853) /* Code examples */
16:26:05 <esowiki> [[NDBall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79245&oldid=79244 * Aspwil * (-1) /* Add 2 numbers */
16:30:01 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Aspwil * uploaded "[[File:NDBALL.jpg]]"
16:30:10 <esowiki> [[NDBall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79247&oldid=79245 * Aspwil * (+130) /* Add 2 numbers */
16:30:38 <esowiki> [[NDBall]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79248&oldid=79247 * Aspwil * (+1) /* Add 2 numbers */
16:32:50 <esowiki> [[Dick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79249&oldid=79218 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+71) headers, cat, 69, not TC
16:33:21 <esowiki> [[MLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79250&oldid=79234 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+6) /* design parameters: */ list
16:34:06 <fizzie> Along those lines, here's also the twistiness rating for each day: http://ix.io/2GSu
16:34:12 <fizzie> Defined as the ratio between total think-time spent by the first 100 people to get two stars vs. to get one star.
16:34:18 <esowiki> [[Yo!nk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79251&oldid=79108 * Mantita223 * (+136) /* Syntax */
16:34:36 <esowiki> [[MLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79252&oldid=79250 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+8) /* Hello world */ code
16:34:49 <fizzie> So I guess it's not really that different from previous years, and in fact day 4 of 2020 was above-average twisty.
16:34:49 <esowiki> [[Yo!nk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79253&oldid=79251 * Mantita223 * (+12) /* Hello World */
16:35:09 <esowiki> [[MLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79254&oldid=79252 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-8) Undo revision 79252 by [[Special:Contributions/PythonshellDebugwindow|PythonshellDebugwindow]] ([[User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow|talk]]) (was this literal?)
16:35:33 <fizzie> What was day 4 again? Oh, right, the passport verification, with the strict rules for part 2. Makes sense, I guess.
16:36:03 <esowiki> [[MLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79255&oldid=79254 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+90) /* output */ CATS
16:38:12 <fizzie> The numbers also suggest year 2019 was unusually twisty (median twistiness of 2.14, compared to 1.23, 1.53, 1.70 and 1.81 for 2015-2018 and 1.76 for 2020 so far), which might be why my expectations are amiss.
16:38:59 <fizzie> Can't argue with science. (Having some numbers equals science. (I learned that from some recent election lawsuits.))
16:41:37 <b_jonas> fizzie: nice
16:42:31 <b_jonas> fizzie: I wonder if we could guess from these numbers that day 7 will have the first harder task
16:44:17 <fizzie> That does look a little like a trend, from eyeballing the numbers. (Should've probably plotted these instead, because eyeballs are more compatible with pixels than numbers.)
16:45:26 <fizzie> Also, I didn't include today because I thought "I couldn't possibly, the day is still ongoing", but it's not like the leaderboard is going to change.
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16:50:45 <fizzie> http://ix.io/2GSF with day 6 included.
16:57:42 <int-e> fizzie: thanks
16:58:49 <int-e> so still in normal range, high variance.
16:59:23 <int-e> (the first couple of days in 2015 don't count, they mostly indicate a certain lack of popularity)
17:00:01 <int-e> shachaf: I finished Hiding Spot
17:00:41 <int-e> shachaf: 609 is one of the hardest puzzles in all the game, though there are one or two more of comparable difficulty, to me.
17:01:24 <int-e> shachaf: And there is one final puzzle after the 54 you can access at any time.
17:06:29 <int-e> (Oh ambiguity. There are 54 levels that you can access from the beginning. The final one unlocks when you've completed the other ones.)
17:06:40 <b_jonas> fizzie: is day 1 always on --12-01 of the year given?
17:10:41 <b_jonas> I find it a bit strange that there are 25 days, not 25, from --12-01 to --12-24 inclusive. is there an ISO standard advent calendar or something?
17:12:02 <int-e> cultural difference
17:14:12 <int-e> Or maybe just a matter of taste... 'Many Advent calendars take the form of a large rectangular card with "windows",[5] one for each day of December leading up to and including Christmas Eve (December 24) or Christmas Day (December 25).'
17:14:38 <b_jonas> yes, probably
17:15:43 <int-e> Meanwhile, in Germany: "Nach 1945 setzte sich endgültig der Kalender beginnend vom 1. Dezember mit 24 Türchen durch."
17:16:02 <int-e> Always trust the Germans to standardize all the important things.
17:16:03 <myname> interesting
17:16:27 <myname> int-e: well, but more often than not, there are german and international rules for something
17:16:37 <b_jonas> yep
17:16:40 <myname> like jugger or quidditch
17:16:51 <b_jonas> or chess
17:16:58 <myname> there are german chess rules?
17:16:58 <int-e> myname: Yeah I wasn't sure whether US advent calendars were universally 25 days long.
17:18:07 <int-e> One point in favor is that they tend to celebrate the 25th. One point against is that 6x4 is an aesthetically more pleasing rectangle compared to a 5x5 square. I mean, in the interest of overthinking it.
17:18:30 <b_jonas> probably. chess had a lot of variant rules, some of their differences are just phrasing and bookkeeping, some were bugs that got patched away when a player first used them in a tournament (like the bug when you used to be able to promote a pawn to an opponent's piece), some are just stupid rules that aren't used in practice (like the dead game rules)
17:18:30 <myname> as a german, 24 is obviously the right way to go
17:19:00 <b_jonas> int-e: it's not 6x4 because the last day gets a larger door
17:19:01 <myname> why would i ever change my figure to an opponent one?
17:19:08 <int-e> b_jonas: not always
17:19:39 <b_jonas> myname: because in some very rare cases that lets you win an endgame
17:19:40 <int-e> myname: because then the opponent can't capture it
17:19:50 <myname> ah
17:19:55 <b_jonas> give a check with very few pieces remaining
17:20:08 <int-e> and there's less likelyhood of stalemate, right
17:20:15 <int-e> likelihood
17:20:24 <b_jonas> the internet probably has an example
17:20:28 <b_jonas> a historical one that is
17:20:38 <int-e> of those rule gaps, 0-0-0-0 is my favorite
17:20:50 <myname> what's that
17:22:27 <int-e> castling extra long. the rule phrasing it's based on stipulates that if the king hasn't moved and the rook hasn't moved, the king may castle by making two steps towards the rook while the rook moves to the crossed square... provided all intermediate squares are empty and the king is not in check before, after, or on the square it crossed.
17:22:28 <b_jonas> int-e: what's that?
17:22:28 <myname> oh, there was also castling forwards
17:22:30 <myname> :D
17:22:46 <int-e> so... you promote the king pawn to a rook... has the rook moved?
17:22:55 <myname> obviously not
17:23:00 <b_jonas> int-e: oh heck
17:23:28 <b_jonas> can that lead the king to a point that's not aligned to a square if the rook isn't lined up nicely?
17:23:39 <int-e> nah
17:23:42 <b_jonas> because it would be hard to check it then
17:23:56 <int-e> also I've made that text up, trying to capture the important points
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17:24:50 <int-e> It's been a while since I learned about this. IIRC this rule interpretation was cooked up for a chess problem; it never happened in an actual game.
17:26:26 <b_jonas> yeah, those rules are found more often by puzzle makers than by players
17:27:34 <b_jonas> some rulesets also have silly bugs where it says that once the game ends, you can't change the result if an illegal move is later discovered, so you can just quickly make an illegal move that gives a checkmate, and unless the opponent is fast enough to call an umpire during your move, you've won
17:27:40 <b_jonas> you can do that right as your first move
17:27:52 <int-e> Oh I think I need more zeros.
17:28:52 <int-e> 0-0-0-0-0-0-0 (if the number of zeros represents how many squares the rook moves, which is the case for 0-0 and 0-0-0)
17:28:57 <b_jonas> int-e: I don't like the zeros at all, they're remains from old forms of notation. just denote castling by the logical Kb1, Kf1, Kb8, or Kf8
17:29:28 <int-e> I... like them, mostly
17:29:46 <int-e> to the extent that I care at all, which isn't very much
17:29:48 <b_jonas> int-e: plus if it represents how many squares the rook moves, you may have to use 0 zeroes and -1 hyphens in Fischer random chess
17:30:26 <int-e> that would be fun.
17:31:15 <int-e> Anyway, I like that castling stands out in a game record.
17:31:29 <b_jonas> also the moves are Kc1, Kg1, Kc8, Kg8 because I'm stupid
17:32:25 <int-e> Right. Which I would've noticed if I was familiar with chess notation :P
17:32:48 <b_jonas> but yeah, the notation with the king also doesn't work in Fischer random chess, because it may be ambigious with a normal king move
17:32:51 <int-e> s/familiar/fluent/
17:33:21 <b_jonas> maybe you should write both? K0-0-0c1 or something
17:33:28 <int-e> ow
17:34:39 <b_jonas> or just K0c1 or something
17:34:59 <b_jonas> the 0 takes the place of an x that indicates capture
17:52:30 <zzo38> Why was castling notation written as "0-0" and "0-0-0" anyways?
17:57:45 <zzo38> Also, Advent starts on Sunday, so why do they call it that even though it does not start on Sunday?
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18:40:02 <kmc> "like the bug when you used to be able to promote a pawn to an opponent's piece" <-- lmao
18:40:12 <kmc> is there a situation where this is advantageous?
18:40:57 <kmc> oh, I see there is some discussion of this
18:42:57 <kmc> 0-0-0 ought to be a type of steam engine
18:43:00 <kmc> but probably not a very useful one
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18:50:24 <fizzie> Finnish advent calendars definitely have 24 doors.
18:50:35 <fizzie> But we do the presents thing on the 24th as well.
18:51:25 <fizzie> The last day tends to get double doors.
18:52:08 <fizzie> And often it's not a regular pattern, since part of the fun is trying to find the next number, and that gets trickier when they're not in a grid but instead hidden away in natural edges of the picture.
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19:16:42 <esowiki> [[Finvara]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=79256&oldid=78715 * Tetrapyronia * (-8)
19:21:52 <kmc> that's cute
19:22:04 <kmc> you do regular xmas presents on the 24th? or something else?
19:23:53 <zzo38> Yes there are situations where it is an advantage to promote to opponent's piece, such as to prevent another opponent's piece from occupying it, and possibly also to avoid stalemate in some situations. I think some even older versions of the rules said that promotion is optional, and did not say that you are not allowed to promote to a king.
19:24:53 <kmc> i was wondering about that too
19:25:08 <kmc> having multiple kings seems disadvantageous
19:25:21 <kmc> because you'd be obliged to respond if either is in check, and you'd lose if either is in checkmate?
19:25:24 <kmc> but maybe that's not how it works
19:25:46 <kmc> maybe these things would only apply to your last king
19:27:53 <zzo38> Apparently once (I don't know if it is true) someone who did not know that promotion to king is disallowed did so, and opponent's next move was to checkmate both kings simultaneously.
19:32:44 <kmc> lol
19:57:30 <fizzie> Regular presents, yes. Whatever that means.
19:58:33 <kmc> in my family we did regular christmas presents on the morning of the 25th, as is typical in the US, but each kid also got a book for a present on the evening of the 24th
19:58:45 <kmc> which I think was just a tradition of our family and not a particularly common thing
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19:59:15 <fizzie> That all reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIj8NphrAFI
20:01:22 <b_jonas> "0-0-0 ought to be a type of steam engine" or a football strategy when all players except one got the red card
20:01:44 <b_jonas> also not a very useful one
20:02:06 <kmc> we also did trick-or-treating on October 30th, not 31st
20:02:16 <kmc> "Beggar's Night"
20:02:20 <kmc> that's a thing in certain parts of the Midwest
20:03:07 <fizzie> We do trick-or-treating on Palm Sunday around Easter, curiously enough.
20:03:12 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virvonta
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20:05:17 <fizzie> (Maybe not exactly the same, but closest we used to have, really. Although maybe these days they do a more Halloweeny thing too.)
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22:01:48 <fizzie> Mostly as an excuse to use Altair outside the context of Google Colab: https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc/
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