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00:46:49 <esowiki> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80383&oldid=80355 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-18) /* Befunge-98 and beyond */ Use template
00:49:30 <Hooloovo0> 133mhz isn't *that* fast, though for a little embedded thing, it's not that bad... I've got a calculator with an ARM that fast
00:50:24 <fizzie> I've got a calculator too, it's got a 6 MHz Z80 in it.
00:51:37 <fizzie> There's that xkcd joke about calculators.
00:52:02 <Hooloovo0> it's not wrong. but arming high school students with understandable CPUs has its benefits
00:52:57 <Hooloovo0> did you know that 768 is the number of bytes in a 96x64 screen
00:54:01 <fizzie> Coincidence? I think not!
00:54:18 <fizzie> (My calculator's got a 128x64 screen and 96K of RAM, so I guess it counts as high-end.)
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00:56:19 <Hooloovo0> ah, you've got an 86, those are pretty cool. they have better hardware than the 83+ series, but... apparently the 83+s were easier to manufacture
00:57:23 <fizzie> Our school had this collective order discount pyramid scheme thing going on, I think it had just switched from the 85 to the 86 when it was my turn.
00:57:37 <fizzie> "TI-83 Premium CE Edition Python" huh.
00:59:35 <kmc> yeah, 133 MHz isn't that fast, but it's substantially faster than most M0 boards out there
01:00:04 <kmc> basically the assumption is if you want a fast ARM microcontroller then you also want hardware floating point / DSP
01:00:14 <kmc> but the RPi people think you want a second core instead
01:00:38 <kmc> perhaps based on the large number of Arduinoobs who use software floating point on freaking 8-bit AVR and don't seem to mind
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01:17:21 <esowiki> [[VAST]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80384 * Zero player rodent * (+3204) Created page with "VAST is an [[esoteric programming language]] created by [[User: Zero player rodent]]. Although it is a [[turning tarpit]], it still has a large amount of commands compared to..."
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02:58:31 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80385&oldid=80382 * Not applicable * (+1592) STILL WIP
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04:21:26 <moony> kmc: I mean, you can do a lot with extra cores
04:21:35 <moony> case in point: entire Propeller line, especially the Propeller 2
04:30:47 <moony> I've got a propeller 2 on my desk atm- trying to figure out what the heck i'm going to do with it
04:30:57 <moony> i'm working on an LLVM backend but I still need project ideas eventually!
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04:34:59 <kmc> the RP2040 cores are far too limited for a LLVM backend, but fit the same general idea of having lots of cores to do bit banging, rather than dedicated I/O logic
04:35:09 <kmc> the PIO cores I mean
04:36:20 <moony> as in- i'm working on making LLVM produce code for the P2, not /run/ on it
04:36:23 <moony> the P2 lacks the RAM
04:36:50 <moony> yea, the PIO cores are rather limited but pretty powerful
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07:31:00 <b_jonas> I have no idea how fast my Sharp EL-5120 calculator's CPU is. I suspect that it's a slow 8 bit cpu, because all the goto and comparison and assignment statements run very fast, the print statements medium speed, arithmetic like addition and multiplication slow, exponential and logarithm functions very slow.
07:31:34 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TaterTomorrow * New user account
07:32:25 <b_jonas> Also it probably has exactly 2K of RAM, because there's 1141 bytes of memory for program storage, and if you add up all the memory that it needs to store all the state that it actually stores, you get pretty close to 2K, with a little left for temporary buffers for computation. It seems like they optimized the rom to squeeze out even the last byte of the RAM.
07:32:52 <b_jonas> Well, more like they decided on the semantics first, then optimized the implementation to squeeze out even the last byte of the RAM:
07:33:27 <b_jonas> it has to store three 160-byte long formula input buffers, and the third one seems a bit of an overkill:
07:34:51 <b_jonas> two buffers make sense, because you want one for the main formula, and there are some functions when it takes a second one, namely there's a function where it lists all the variables in your current formula and you can modify any by selecting it and entering a formula that is immediately evaluated and assigned to it, and then after entering any number, you can reevaluate the original formula.
07:35:49 <b_jonas> a similar functionality is provided for the integral and root finder functions, where the first formula is what you numerically integrate or numerically find root for, the second is the integral bounds or starting points in the integral
07:36:27 <b_jonas> but the third buffer is because for some reason it always stores the last formula to find roots for in the root finder mode, even when you exit that mode. that seems pointless, and that memory would be better used for something else.
07:38:50 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80386&oldid=80368 * TaterTomorrow * (+262) /* Introductions */
07:42:17 <b_jonas> there's also memory set aside for a lot of numbers, which is actually reasonable and well-used. each number is 8 bit long, which is normally used as 12 decimal digits of mantissa, 2 decimal digits of exponent, and signs for both. There's also an alternate representation for rational numbers, with I think 10 digits for the numerator and denominators total: the rationals are only constructed when you use
07:42:23 <b_jonas> the rational divide operator, but they're preserved by most arithmetic, but converted back to floating point when you get an exact integer result or when it would have too many digits.
07:45:19 <b_jonas> there are 26 numbers stored for the general use global named variables, IIRC 4*9 numbers for variables separate among the four major modes, 6 momentums for the statistics in current mode, a 16 number deep stack that's used pretty flexibly in formula evaluation, probably like eight or ten temporaries for arithmetic, and I think a few more temporaries for root finder or integrals
07:45:49 <b_jonas> plus there's a bunch of miscellaneous state you can account for, and you get pretty close to 2K
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09:09:43 <b_jonas> I wonder if you could build an Odysseus-style bed in a modern apartment, with thick permanent concrete/brick/wood supports that are build like a wall just not as tall at its head and foot and the metal bed frame permanently attached to those, sort of like how bathtubs are heavily supported and affixed to the floor permanently in many homes around here.
09:54:36 <esowiki> [[User:RocketRace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80387&oldid=78154 * RocketRace * (+62) Add
09:57:55 <esowiki> [[Fortob]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80388&oldid=53794 * TaterTomorrow * (-2) Minor spelling and grammar fixes.
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11:25:00 <esowiki> [[StackStacks]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80389&oldid=75481 * TaterTomorrow * (+0) Minor spelling and grammar fixes, "it's" and "accessable".
12:04:38 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * SjoerdPennings * New user account
12:06:38 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80390&oldid=80386 * SjoerdPennings * (+139) Introduction
12:22:13 <esowiki> [[BRASCA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80391 * SjoerdPennings * (+5284) BRASCA created
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13:07:49 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80392&oldid=80385 * Not applicable * (+912) still WIP!!!!
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13:44:55 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80393&oldid=80347 * SjoerdPennings * (+13)
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14:27:22 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80394&oldid=80392 * Not applicable * (+408)
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14:47:03 <esowiki> [[BSS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=80395 * CatLooks * (+2308) Created page with "'''BSS''' is an assembly-style esoteric programming language created by [[User:CatLooks|CatLooks]]. It has a lot of common with 6502 Assembly and requires source code to be co..."
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15:19:50 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80396&oldid=80217 * Tetrapyronia * (+25) added BRASCA
15:20:06 <esowiki> [[User:Tetrapyronia]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80397&oldid=80184 * Tetrapyronia * (+13)
15:32:09 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Not applicable * uploaded "[[File:Blue-black-gradient.png]]": gradient from black to indigo
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15:46:30 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80399&oldid=80394 * Not applicable * (+60)
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16:40:32 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80400&oldid=80353 * Digital Hunter * (-1) /* Reverse cat */
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18:53:42 <zzo38> Do you like idea of the Magic: the Gathering that I had mentioned recently?
18:54:45 <zzo38> Also, if you have worked with LLVM, do you know if it can somehow be used with a target that you cannot arbitrarily access the stack?
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19:12:50 <Hooloovo0> zzo38, might depend on what you mean by "arbitrarily access the stack", and if you need performance or it just to work
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19:19:06 <kmc> i wonder if anyone has done demo / golfing competitions with OpenSCAD
19:19:23 <kmc> to design a cool shape, preferably printable, within a small number of characters
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19:23:14 <b_jonas> zzo38: I worked very little with llvm directly, the only thing I've done is ask some llvm folks about some pedantic semantic question after the compiler folks told me what the compiler emits and sent me to the llvm folks.
19:23:59 <b_jonas> but I do know that llvm is the optimizer and code generator under at least three compilers: clang, rustc, and the zig compiler.
19:24:15 <b_jonas> I don't want to touch llvm directly
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19:37:15 <zzo38> Hooloovo0: I mean basically that alloca will work and will allow you to do the same things as it is capable in C. Some instruction sets don't have an accessible stack, making that difficult to do. (In Glulx, there is a stack, but you cannot read/write it directly; you can access local variables of the current frame, and data pushed to the stack for the current frame, but those use different instructions than normal memory, and have othe
19:40:12 <Hooloovo0> I know the ez80 has something like that, where the stack pointer could be a large value, but normally is restricted to a signed 8-bit offset from the current base pointer
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19:41:01 <Hooloovo0> and sometimes there are big variables, so (I think?) the compiler has to resort to shenanigans to get you the right value
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20:12:45 <zzo38> Do you have a description of the stack working in ez80?
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20:28:39 <Hooloovo0> I don't have a good description - it doesn't really use the normal stack pointer, but the index registers, though depends on the specific use
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20:40:05 <esowiki> [[BRASCA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80405&oldid=80391 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+90) /* Links */ Add HW
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21:15:09 <esowiki> [[Talk:Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=80406&oldid=80322 * Digital Hunter * (+559) /* Interpreter */
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