00:01:32 <esowiki> [[DFA-er]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81700&oldid=81698 * Largejamie * (-2) /* Overview */
00:04:10 <esowiki> [[5D Brainfuck With Multiverse Time Travel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81701&oldid=81699 * Not applicable * (+10) i always mess up one thing.... ONE THING when editing pages.... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
00:04:14 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81702&oldid=81535 * Largejamie * (+587)
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00:49:08 <esowiki> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81703&oldid=81612 * Not applicable * (+855) add stupidc and stupidexpr
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01:52:15 <zzo38> How can I find testers for my software?
01:59:43 <esowiki> [[Fishheads]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81704&oldid=81683 * Hyperdawg * (-44)
02:16:30 <shachaf> What sort of software is it?
02:16:51 <zzo38> (in this case, at least)
02:18:23 <zzo38> Well, it is a game engine program, for grid-based puzzle games, such as sokoban and Hero Hearts
02:31:09 <esowiki> [[Fishheads]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81705&oldid=81704 * Hyperdawg * (+86)
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05:07:22 <oren> the following code, when compiled with tcc -nostdlib caused tcc to segafult
05:07:27 <oren> static void test () {;} void _start() {test();}
05:25:28 <oren> what version of tcc?
05:26:38 <oren> that's the same version I have. how very odd
05:27:22 <shachaf> Oh, maybe my version is more recent.
05:27:39 <shachaf> I get the segfault from the git tag release_0_9_27, but not from what's in /usr/bin/ or ~/local/bin/
05:32:03 <shachaf> I bisected it and it looks like it was fixed in 8f6fcb709ae7b2379866c292ce478ab95dc75b48
05:32:18 <shachaf> - tccelf.c: fix a crash when GOT has no relocs (witn -nostdlib)
05:33:42 <shachaf> I bisected it and it looks like it was fixed in 8f6fcb709ae7b2379866c292ce478ab95dc75b48
05:33:55 <shachaf> I think I posted about the floating point calling convention bug I ran into a while ago.
05:36:30 <shachaf> I'm not sure how that message got double-posted. I meant to say "tcc has some bugs.".
05:38:09 <oren> well, looks like the "mob" branch does indeed fix that problem
06:09:36 <zzo38> Well, I am not using tcc. Does tcc have any GNU extensions? What version of C is implemented?
06:10:19 <zzo38> But, good if you found a bug, so that if you do use, then you can fix it
06:13:20 <zzo38> Are you supposed to add "void" after the function name to indicate that no arguments are expected?
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07:06:00 <esowiki> [[Talk:Zirconium]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81706&oldid=81660 * Strohtaler * (-124)
07:10:00 <esowiki> [[Fishheads]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81707&oldid=81705 * Hyperdawg * (+74)
07:12:12 <esowiki> [[Fishheads]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81708&oldid=81707 * Hyperdawg * (+20)
07:19:54 <zzo38> Which solitaire card games include jokers?
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07:56:42 <shachaf> zzo38: It would probably be a good idea to add void there.
07:56:48 <shachaf> But it's not required in C.
07:56:58 <shachaf> (Or maybe a recent version of C actually does require it? I'm not sure.)
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09:45:16 <fizzie> A recent (so recent it isn't out yet) version does *some* changes in that space, but still allows () in declarations, and in fact makes () in *definitions* fully equivalent with (void), not just vaguely similar. The bigger change is to outlaw non-empty identifier lists (aka, non-prototype function definitions); but the empty one is still allowed.
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09:45:33 <fizzie> C11 6.7.6.3p14: "An empty list in a function declarator that is part of a definition of that function specifies that the function has no parameters [but doesn't provide a prototype]. The empty list in a function declarator that is not part of a definition of that function specifies that no information about the number or types of the parameters is supplied."
09:45:44 <fizzie> N2596 (latest C23 draft) 6.7.6.3p13: "For a function declarator without a parameter type list: if it is part of a definition of that function the function has no parameters and the effect is as if it were declared with a parameter type list consisting of the keyword `void`; otherwise it specifies that no information about the number or types of parameters is supplied."
09:50:09 <fizzie> This should hopefully put to rest the argument about `int main() { ... }`, because up until now people have been arguing it doesn't satisfy the "`int main(void) { /* ... */ }` -- or equivalent" rule (C11 5.1.2.2.1p1), because even thouogh it "specifies that the function has no parameters", it's not 100% "equivalent". With the "as if it were declared" wording, I don't think that's reasonable any more.
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11:10:12 <arseniiv> it’s sad when people think an underspecified question “find all solutions of <…>” when there is no clarification of variables’ domains, automatically means their domains are all ℂ
11:11:31 <arseniiv> like of course there is one maximal field (or ring or what) of them all, *and* of course it is ℂ. Because they don’t know anything else at all
11:18:36 <arseniiv> I’m not even sure surreals may be considered *the* maximal ordered field in all honesty: their construction looks too dependent on what set theory model we consider. Hopefully I’m wrong and differences in their content are no larger than in that of the, say, ℝ. I don’t know in what language this idea is even expressible
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12:24:31 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81709&oldid=81630 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+26) [[DFA-er]] and [[PDA-er]]
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13:40:47 <b_jonas> fizzie: makes sense. if the function takes no parameters, then it must be called with no arguments, so the lack of prototype doesn't cause the arguments to be converted differently, so C might as well decide that that a definition without parameters counts as if there was a prototype, that won't be incompatible with no-prototype code, and it makes life easier for C++ coders
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14:08:21 <oren> running with -nostdlib makes the entry point to be named _start
14:23:44 <esowiki> [[ObjectPar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81710&oldid=8371 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+29) See also
14:24:37 <Taneb> Is the a Busy Beaver equivalent for Turing machines equipped with halting oracles
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14:49:48 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81711&oldid=81549 * EnilKoder * (-65) /* Standard Suites and Zooms */
15:05:59 <myname> what should work different? aren't busy beavers halting eventually by definition?
15:14:23 <fizzie> The busy beaver would be, but I don't think that's inconsistent with the possibility that you could write a better busy beaver if you had access to a halting oracle. Maybe something like, a program that runs all the possible halting programs up to some size before it halts; that's something you couldn't do without a halting oracle.
15:14:29 <fizzie> (I don't have any sort of intuition on whether the answer is yes or no.)
16:48:56 <int-e> Hmm... morbid thought... they removed half of the () semantics in function declarators because K&R is half dead.
16:52:00 <int-e> Uh, what is the busy beaver question? Was there context before Taneb's malformed (I have geniune trouble deciphering it) remark?
16:56:02 <int-e> Continuing on the C train... I hate writing (void) though. It looks so silly.
17:00:47 <int-e> Oh, Taneb's "the" is just "there", and then it makes sense. That took way too long.
17:02:22 <int-e> Taneb: And then the answer is yes, of course. Note that the halting oracle is for ordinary TMs, not fully introspective; the latter would be logically inconsistent. And presumably you would count the oracle query as a single step.
17:18:26 <kmc> yeah I think you can define busy beaver for any level of the arithmetic hierarchy
17:19:42 <kmc> and BB(n) for a higher level is always strictly greater than the level below?
17:21:00 <int-e> kmc: tricky... how exactly do you define the next level of the hierarchy? what does an oracle query look like?
17:21:08 <int-e> The n-s mat be incomparable.
17:21:48 <int-e> If you properly extend the formalism so that an n-state TM is an n-state TM at higher levels as well... then yes.
17:22:37 <int-e> (with the same semantics, I should say)
17:34:46 <kmc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_machine#Definitions
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19:18:23 <int-e> You are in a twisty maze of passages, all alike.
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20:01:31 <arseniiv> int-e: is it that game set in a nonseparable infinite-dimensional space?
20:05:28 <int-e> arseniiv: I'm worried that you may be talking about a real thing. But no.
20:18:44 <arseniiv> yep I think it was called λPω±U*
20:19:41 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81712&oldid=81694 * Not applicable * (-48) oops forgot to remove TINBFD from the list
20:19:47 <arseniiv> took a while to remember that complicated name
20:20:18 <NotApplicable> probably takes equally as long to type it without copy-pasting the whole thing
20:20:32 <int-e> arseniiv: the maze originates in the original advent/Zork... it has found its way into other text adventurees as well.
20:21:23 <arseniiv> int-e: I suspected that was an allusion
20:22:24 <arseniiv> NotApplicable: ha, if only! Let me type it via my AHK script starting from now
20:23:53 <arseniiv> it is typed as \lambda␣P\omega␣\pm␣U* where ␣ is the space
20:24:43 <arseniiv> many replacements based on [La]TeX’s names for symbols, but many others are named completely differently
20:25:07 <arseniiv> NotApplicable: replacements are on my side only, of course
20:25:37 <arseniiv> I can’t inject arbitrary code to Freenode servers. Yet
20:25:38 <NotApplicable> i was just wondering if xChat would do the same lol
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21:08:54 <pikhq> arseniiv_: only code from an enumerated, limited set?
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22:44:41 <esowiki> [[Grain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81713 * Grom * (+364) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Grain |paradigms=not specified |author=[[User:Grom|Grom]] |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] |class=[[:Category:Turing_complete|Turing complete]] |majorimp..."
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23:14:48 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81714&oldid=81713 * Grom * (+486)
23:15:56 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81715&oldid=81714 * Grom * (+24)
23:16:10 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81716&oldid=81715 * Grom * (+1)
23:21:06 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81717&oldid=81716 * Grom * (+124)
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