←2021-04-02 2021-04-03 2021-04-04→ ↑2021 ↑all
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01:16:05 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81755&oldid=81754 * Digital Hunter * (+241) /* Example programs */ added a thue-morse sequence program
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01:20:10 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81756&oldid=81755 * Digital Hunter * (+9) /* Commands and keywords */ better important clarification to "succeed"
01:31:32 <esowiki> [[User:Not applicable/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81757&oldid=81712 * Not applicable * (+2237) add Z-Machine clone
02:44:20 <zzo38> What are some things that occur at regular or nearly regular intervals, are unpredictable, and once they have occurred can easily be verified by anyone in the world and will be recorded for verification in the future too? I had idea involving such things using as a random number seed.
03:42:44 <arcsor5> good question zzo38. Reddit posts?
03:53:59 <kmc> blockchain blocks
03:55:42 <kmc> there are some bitcoin lotteries which work this way, you can place bets regarding bits of the hash of the next block accepted after some specified time
03:56:23 <kmc> this way you can verify that the lottery administrators are not rigging the RNG
03:56:43 <kmc> and since bets are made publicly, by sending bitcoins to their address, you can also verify that everyone in the past who bet and won has been paid
03:57:32 <kmc> of course at any time they could still decide to cheat everyone and pocket the money for the next round but it would be clear to everyone that they had done so, and people would stop playing their lottery
03:59:07 <kmc> I think with ethereum or other smart contract coins you could do one better, make a lottery that is collectively administered by the consensus of the network, so as long as a majority of nodes interpret contracts faithfully then the people who placed winning bets will get paid, there is no central entity that can decide to stiff them
03:59:38 <kmc> i think smart contracts have somewhat limited utility compared to the hype but there are some tidy and self contained things you can do with them
04:01:50 <b_jonas> kmc: I do want random numbers that are verifiable to not have been rigged by a third party, even later. They can be useful for experiments, like when I want to prove a statistical statement that has a too large domain, so I can't measure every possibility, I have to take a sample, but I want to prove that I haven't picked my sample in a biased way to support my statement. I don't see why they'd be
04:01:56 <b_jonas> useful for *lotteries* though. Do the kind of people who rigorously verify that the company really gets the numbers from blockchain actually buy lottery tickets?
04:02:48 <kmc> there are definitely people who are interested in online gambling who are tech savvy enough to verify such things
04:02:56 <kmc> perhaps not lotteries but more interesting games?
04:03:22 <kmc> in the old days of numbers rackets run by the mafia they would use the last digits of the closing price of the Dow Jones Industrial Average or whatever as the RNG
04:03:30 <kmc> because anyone can verify that by picking up a newspaper
04:03:49 <kmc> the mob bets on the low bits of the dow and wall street bets on the high bits ;P
04:04:55 <b_jonas> kmc: like poker? perhaps.
04:05:09 <kmc> b_jonas: the idea of picking random numbers in a way that proves you have nothing up your sleeve is also used in non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs
04:05:50 <b_jonas> kmc: yes, zero-knowledge or at least reduced knowledge is possible too
04:05:50 <kmc> a traditional ZKP is an interactive protocol where you pose challenge questions and receive answers
04:06:18 <kmc> if the other party is able to answer enough questions properly then you can be reasonably confident they have whatever knowledge they don't want to reveal directly
04:06:43 <kmc> in a non interactive form they pose the questions to themselves, but have to prove that they picked them randomly
04:06:54 <b_jonas> yeah
04:07:15 <kmc> by the way another interesting and self contained use case for smart contracts is posting bounties for forged cryptographic certificates
04:07:16 <b_jonas> but the non-interactive thing still applies if the proof isn't zero-knowledge
04:07:26 <b_jonas> versus interactive
04:08:09 <kmc> if I own some domain I can write a smart contract which pays out to anyone who can present a TLS certificate for that domain, that is signed by <insert list of CAs>, and is not one of the legitimate certs mentioned in the contract
04:08:30 <kmc> all that can be encoded in a smart contract without reference to any external judge or data source
04:08:51 <kmc> so the person who is perhaps expending resources or taking risks to claim the bounty knows that they will be paid on completion
04:33:45 <zzo38> Can you verify bitcoin hashes if you do not have bitcoin? How often is Dow Jones average updated? Is it only on business days, or every day? Are there other things? Does bitcoin have timestamps?
04:34:24 <zzo38> Also, I would think that bitcoin presumably would require too many blocks to verify it properly?
04:35:33 <arcsor5> Usually reddit posts can be verified easily by just going on the site using their api
04:35:48 <b_jonas> I thought the problem with bitcoin was that you can influence it. not deterministically, but bias it by a small amount, in case you manage to mine the block that is referenced.
04:36:20 <b_jonas> mind you, that's still a small enough bias that you can account for it in calculating bounds and do most things that require a random sample and a statistical proof
04:40:58 <zzo38> I don't know a lot about how it works, but yes I suppose that makes sense. Although, even if it is Reddit you can post your own messages too if you have an account.
04:41:32 <oren> apparently irssi and w3m use the boehm garbage collector
04:42:26 <arcsor5> Reddit has a message stream so you simply take random messages and put them in your generator. To verify use the link. No account needed i think. You can use the byte representation of the values
04:45:15 <zzo38> Ideally something that does not require an internet connection would also help, I suppose.
04:46:21 <arcsor5> Then i guess some sensor/adapter that captures a real world value would be acquired. That's what random.org has
04:48:10 <zzo38> Sirlin's Codex card game is designed that you do not need to do anything on your opponent's turn; you do stuff only on your own turn. With the system that I have thought of, the game rules need no modification, although some of the card effects will not work.
04:48:57 <oren> Another source of random numbers that occurs regularly is weather
04:49:01 <zzo38> Specifically, the ones that allow you to draw cards during your own turn won't work, and the ones that allow you to look at opponent's cards will not work; you can only draw cards during opponent's turn.
04:49:14 <zzo38> Yes, but the weather is predictable.
04:50:20 <oren> . o O (would we get better weather reports if predicting the *exact* temperature and rainfall was linked to a substantial monetrary prize?)
04:51:07 <arcsor5> Just use the built in rng
04:51:11 <zzo38> Maybe then would they use the money to build better equipment for predicting the weather (if such a thing is possible)?
04:51:17 <arcsor5> urandom is pretty good
04:52:39 <zzo38> Yes, and if you want to generate random numbers locally, for your own use, that works.
04:52:41 <kmc> urandom or random.org does not solve the problem of distributed consensus about the randomly generated value
04:53:16 <kmc> you have to trust that whoever is publishing the result really chose it randomly
04:53:21 <zzo38> But, yes, distributed consensus about the randomly generated value is what I am asking about, and urandom isn't that.
04:53:28 <zzo38> Still, what is the interval of Dow Jones?
04:53:41 <kmc> well the closing price is published once a day, on days when the market is open
04:54:07 <kmc> (which is most weekdays, although the holiday schedule is not exactly the same as US Federal holidays or whatever)
04:54:28 <zzo38> OK
04:54:29 <kmc> https://www.nyse.com/markets/hours-calendars
04:54:42 <kmc> defining prices intraday is a little trickier
04:55:03 <kmc> because there are in reality many different venues in which you can trade the same set of stocks
04:55:14 <kmc> and the price of the last executed trade may be different on each
04:55:39 <kmc> there is some attempt to regulate the existence of a 'national market system' with a coherent idea of last trade price, but it's complicated
04:55:55 <kmc> and of course, stock prices are not random, and can be predicted and manipulated to some degree
04:58:23 <kmc> and it's not really distributed consensus, it's centralized consensus published by a centralized organization (NYSE) that is deemed to have little to no interest in manipulating the mafia's illegal lotteries
04:58:23 <zzo38> Yes, they probably can be predicted and manipulated to some degree, although I don't know what degree. (Although, there is lso some degree for the other things mentioned, too.)
04:58:33 <kmc> because they have a much bigger and legal lottery to run ;)
04:58:59 <zzo38> Are there stars or other stuff in space that is suitable at all?
04:59:01 <kmc> an issue with using the weather is that you have to trust whoever publishes the data
04:59:28 <kmc> while it's hard to actually manipulate the weather, it's easy to manipulate the records of the weather
04:59:39 <zzo38> The positions of planets and stuff can easily be predicted, but I don't know if there is stuff that isn't
04:59:45 <kmc> and you can't prove after the fact that it was really 30° instead of 29° at some location at some time
04:59:55 <kmc> that's an interesting idea zzo38
05:00:18 <zzo38> Yes, although if it is local weather, you can at least check at the time that it is wrong. That won't help for weather in other places though
05:00:36 <kmc> that depends on the precision used
05:00:51 <kmc> I won't expect the temperature just outside my house to always be exactly the same to the degree as the weather station some miles away
05:01:11 <zzo38> O, yes, I suppose you are right about that
05:01:34 <kmc> there is lots of radiation coming from space that is random in arrival time, but also very localized, so it's not suitable
05:01:46 <kmc> you can use the arrival times of cosmic radiation as a good local RNG but you can't build distributed consensus from that
05:02:59 <kmc> everyone will get different random numbers (which is of course desirable for a local RNG)
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10:30:57 <b_jonas> fungot, how old were your children when you let them use an angle grinder?
10:30:57 <fungot> b_jonas: called a guy who's at the job with me, so why memorize it now?) ircnomic
10:32:11 <nakilon> Johnny Шrcnomic
10:32:15 <nakilon> Johnny Ircnomic
10:34:36 <b_jonas> `? password
10:34:38 <HackEso> The password of the month is grammaphobic.
10:34:47 <b_jonas> that's last month's password. what's this month's?
10:40:06 <nakilon> ` date
10:40:08 <HackEso> ​? Permission denied
10:40:32 <nakilon> ` date please
10:40:33 <HackEso> ​? Permission denied
10:41:38 <b_jonas> `sudo date
10:41:39 <HackEso> sudo: effective uid is not 0, is /usr/bin/sudo on a file system with the 'nosuid' option set or an NFS file system without root privileges?
10:42:09 <b_jonas> `date
10:42:10 <b_jonas> `datei
10:42:10 <HackEso> Sat Apr 3 10:42:10 UTC 2021
10:42:11 <HackEso> 2021-04-03 10:42:10.992 +0000 UTC April 3 Saturday 2021-W13-6
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11:11:02 <int-e> `` grep /usr /proc/mounts
11:11:03 <HackEso> none /usr hostfs ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/ 0 0
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12:25:00 <nakilon> is there a language that demands you to write not [1,2,3] but [1,2,3,] ?
12:26:08 <b_jonas> nakilon: yes, but many of the old ones have since been fixed up to accept the latter too
12:27:25 <b_jonas> one related interesting thing is that [7,,9] has a different meaning in perl and in javascript: in perl it's the same as [7,9]; but in javascript there's a missing slot between the 7 and the 9 in the aray
12:30:36 <nakilon> I would allow only the latter
12:31:11 <nakilon> I suppose we put comma only in between because historically we were writing word sentences before arrays
12:31:23 <nakilon> and there we write: cat, dog, monkey.
12:31:52 <nakilon> where the "." looks almost like "," and so has two roles at the same time -- pointing that it's the end and pointing that before it there is the last element
12:32:19 <nakilon> while in the arrays syntax the end symbol isn't "." but some bracket
12:33:18 <nakilon> the "1, 2, 3." array syntax would be ok too
12:34:30 <nakilon> or not ok
12:34:53 <nakilon> maybe ok if there is some autoreplace system in the IDE
12:35:33 <nakilon> that when I select the last element and the dot and press the "dup" shortcut it dups it replacing the "." with "," in the left copy
12:36:27 <nakilon> so imagine in code I have a literal like this
12:36:30 <nakilon> 1,
12:36:31 <nakilon> 2,
12:36:32 <nakilon> 3.
12:36:43 <nakilon> I select the third line, press dup shortcut and get
12:36:45 <nakilon> 1,
12:36:46 <nakilon> 2,
12:36:48 <nakilon> 3,
12:36:50 <nakilon> 3.
13:06:42 <fizzie> There's at least one language (Go) that demands you write "{\n1,\n2,\n3,\n}" instead of "{\n1,\n2,\n3\n}" -- as in, it requires the comma at an end of each item if it's a comma-separated list (composite literal, function call) that's been split to multiple lines; https://play.golang.org/p/9dx0hNz5I36 is a syntax error.
13:10:22 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81758&oldid=81718 * EnilKoder * (+17)
13:12:57 <nakilon> cool
13:26:51 <esowiki> [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow/RandomNameGenerator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81759&oldid=71495 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+783) Add another "better" Generator
13:28:22 <esowiki> [[SPAM/1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81760&oldid=38799 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+5) /* Syntax */ Make all spaces show
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15:54:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Leothetechguy * New user account
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16:04:40 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81761&oldid=81752 * Leothetechguy * (+323)
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16:24:41 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=81762 * Leothetechguy * (+311) Created page with "'''Deskileq''' (Decrement and skip next line if less than or equal to zero) is an OISC esoteric language designed to use only 1 Argument. It uses a memory address which it dec..."
16:27:09 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81763&oldid=81762 * Leothetechguy * (+73)
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17:05:43 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81770&oldid=81769 * Leothetechguy * (+3)
17:05:55 <nakilon> what's the simpliest regex to cut possible space substrings on both sides of the string?
17:06:17 <myname> what
17:06:18 <nakilon> " s s s " => "s"
17:06:34 <nakilon> " s " => "s"
17:06:36 <myname> \s+
17:06:38 <myname> ?
17:06:42 <nakilon> " s", "s " => "s"
17:07:07 <NotApplicable> I know in most BASIC dialects LTRIM$ and RTRIM$ do just that, maybe there's an equivalent to that for whatever language you
17:07:07 <nakilon> oh, => "s s s" -- fix for my 1st example
17:07:11 <NotApplicable> 're using?
17:07:18 <myname> so you want trimming
17:07:25 <nakilon> yes, trim spaces
17:07:51 <myname> s/^\s*(\S*)\s*$/\1/
17:08:05 <nakilon> wrong
17:08:20 <nakilon> you match only one word
17:08:27 <myname> you are right
17:08:43 <myname> should be .*, but that would be slow as hell possibly
17:08:53 <myname> i wouldn't use regex for that, tbh
17:09:19 <myname> or if i want to, i'd replace ^\s* and \s*$ with the empty string
17:09:48 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81771&oldid=81770 * Leothetechguy * (+29)
17:10:03 <nakilon> hm, two regexes will be ok for me I guess
17:10:05 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81772&oldid=81771 * Leothetechguy * (-29)
17:10:06 <nakilon> just wanted one
17:10:27 <myname> why would you want to do that with regexes anyways?
17:10:56 <nakilon> are you afraid of regexes?
17:11:00 <myname> no
17:11:09 <NotApplicable> i am lol
17:11:10 <myname> but i don't think they are the right tool for that
17:11:15 <myname> i love regexes
17:11:59 <nakilon> do you prefer 10 pages of nested loops instead of this? https://i.imgur.com/DilytEt.png
17:12:45 <myname> no, but that's not at all comparable
17:13:19 <myname> regexes are nice as long as you can clearly define what to match at each point
17:13:34 <myname> as soon as a naked . comes into play, it can go downhill quite quickly
17:14:30 <nakilon> I guess this works /\A *(.*?) *\z/
17:15:56 <myname> https://blog.codinghorror.com/regex-performance/
17:17:01 <nakilon> are you fighting windmills?
17:17:09 <myname> no
17:17:27 <nakilon> or ever wrote a programs that has more than 100 string matching procedures?
17:17:33 <myname> i'm just saying, that your other regexes are guaranteed to behave nicely, since none of them contains a .
17:18:17 <myname> but as soon as you have a .* in it, parsing times can go wild
17:18:30 <nakilon> yeah, imaginary windmills
17:18:39 <myname> how is that imaginary?
17:18:55 <nakilon> because there are no windmills in my 20 megabytes of text
17:18:55 <myname> it's a real problem, go try it out for yourself
17:19:11 <nakilon> tried it 100 times today
17:20:05 <myname> and there is really no reason to prefer the single regex for trimming both ends over one for each left and right trimming
17:20:44 <nakilon> there is a clear reason to prefer one over two since one will work
17:21:08 <myname> two will also work, so that's a pretty bad reason
17:21:38 <nakilon> okay, you aren't afraid of regex, you are afraid of logic
17:21:46 <myname> as is "my code can be shitty since my input is nice", since people train themself this way and sometimes projects tend to gain way more traction than initially thought
17:21:55 <myname> how so?
17:22:05 <nakilon> how is /\A *(.*?) *\z/ shitty?
17:22:14 <nakilon> you are again fihgting with some imaginary windmills
17:22:16 <nakilon> calling them shitty
17:22:20 <myname> if both work, how is "the one i chose works" a reason to prefer it?
17:22:30 <nakilon> one is better than two
17:22:35 <myname> how so?
17:22:53 <nakilon> come back when you are sober
17:22:54 <nakilon> ignored
17:23:07 <myname> it might be a tad faster in ruby since it cannot easily compile those into DFAs beforehand
17:23:12 <myname> i am sober
17:23:32 <nakilon> these windmill fighters
17:23:51 <nakilon> with their own imaginary shitty code they imaginge in your code
17:23:53 <myname> that has nothing to do with windmill fighting, it's a point of style and efficiency
17:23:54 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81773&oldid=81772 * Leothetechguy * (+82)
17:24:08 <nakilon> and imaginary coworkers on imaginary projects
17:24:32 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81774&oldid=81773 * Leothetechguy * (+8)
17:24:34 <nakilon> just to waste someone's time on pointless debates
17:24:40 <nakilon> learn to get things done
17:24:56 <myname> says the guy that needs to ask for like the most basic pcre
17:25:00 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81775&oldid=81774 * Leothetechguy * (-8)
17:25:14 <myname> i am getting things done fairly well, thank you
17:26:00 <nakilon> these "aaahhh! I saw a blogpost in some hype blog! now I can't sleep, I see bad dreams about slow regexes and will annoy other people with it too"
17:26:40 <myname> i read many more than that, it was just like the first google result to give you as an entry
17:26:50 <myname> also, why not just use .strip()?
17:27:00 <nakilon> could just say "I suck in regexes" if he does not know the answer to my question
17:27:19 <myname> you do realize i provided you with your answer, do you?
17:27:40 <nakilon> not thinking about multiple words in a string
17:27:41 <myname> .strip() is most likely more efficient and way more readable
17:27:47 <nakilon> not thinking about multiline string
17:27:59 <myname> i corrected that like seconds later
17:28:20 <nakilon> if your experience in a subject is this low why do you debate?... rhetorical question
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17:28:43 <myname> my experience is far from being low, thank you
17:29:13 <myname> if your experience in ruby is so low that you aren't even aware of strip, why do you use ruby? rhetorical question
17:29:48 <int-e> sigh, so much anger over what could be a healthy intellectual debate weighing the pros and cons of regexes and other approaches to stripping whitespace.
17:30:48 <myname> regex is almost always the worst option to trimming. at best, it just compiles down to a dfa that does the exact same thing that strip() will probably do, that is just loop over the string char by char and kick out spaces
17:31:40 <nakilon> I've got annoyed because there were no practical arguments, only some imaginary windmills with imaginary data, imaginary regexes, imaginary projects and coworkers, nothing close to the real project I'm working on
17:32:29 <myname> how is that more than "this doesn't apply to me"? which is a garbage argument to make if the better solution is shorter and more readable
17:33:00 <NotApplicable> on an unrelated note, does anybody know if GitHub Pages support "including" HTML files into other HTML files?
17:34:07 <nakilon> if we don't know you may ask in ##github
17:34:10 <myname> i mean, you could do iframes?
17:34:57 <NotApplicable> No like i could have a header HTML file for the top part of the site, and another one for the bottom.
17:35:26 <myname> what's wrong with iframes for that?
17:35:44 <nakilon> you could use iframes
17:37:32 <NotApplicable> I could try that
17:38:24 <myname> i doubt that github will do server side processing for github pages
17:39:41 <nakilon> there was also some another html tag but it's probably not recommended nowadays
17:40:28 <myname> yes, there are 3-ish tags for that and you _could_ use js to modify the dom, but that's most likely not worth it
17:41:17 <nakilon> here are some <object> and <embed> https://stackoverflow.com/q/8702704/322020
17:41:32 <nakilon> but there was something different... you could split the page vertically or horizonatlly
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17:44:46 <nakilon> found it <frameset>
17:44:58 <myname> no, don't use framesets
17:45:27 <myname> framesets are deprecated for like 10 years now
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17:49:03 <zzo38> I think that it is best to use neither iframes nor framesets due to the disadvantages of them, and using server-side includes instead. Any type of frames have disadvantages of losing the URL if links to a different page, and if changing the outer one instead, will fail if frames are resized or if the user specifically wants only the frame. It can also fail with some methods of downloading a document to make a local copy
17:51:52 <int-e> I guess the closest NotApplicable will come to their dream is to rely on github's support of Jekyll and https://jekyllrb.com/docs/includes/
17:51:54 <myname> with modern web, you can mitigate quite a lot of those issues
17:53:03 <int-e> But NotApplicable left.
17:53:17 <nakilon> use memoserv!
17:53:27 <int-e> Nah, we have logs for that.
17:53:44 <nakilon> send him a memo to check the logs
17:55:13 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81776&oldid=81775 * Leothetechguy * (+0)
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18:15:04 <NotApplicable> I tried opening an HTML file in konqueror and misspelt the URI and for some reason it started spewing a ton of windows out and i couldnt stop it so i had to reboot
18:17:04 <myname> oh wow, konqueror is still a thing?
18:18:21 <NotApplicable> I dont think development is all that active anymore, but yeah
18:21:03 <NotApplicable> I guess its like a midpoint between firefox and arora; lightweight like arora but also capable like firefox
18:23:36 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81777&oldid=81776 * Leothetechguy * (+0)
18:26:30 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81778&oldid=81777 * Leothetechguy * (-9)
18:31:41 <NotApplicable> iframe doesn't seem to work for what I need...
18:32:33 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81779&oldid=81778 * Leothetechguy * (-1)
18:33:05 <NotApplicable> It runs the html in a sandbox-y environment, which is what I feared it would do
18:33:34 <NotApplicable> (maybe i could try having a linker thing, and generate the HTML files locally?>
18:39:43 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81780&oldid=81709 * Leothetechguy * (+15)
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19:23:05 <fizzie> NotApplicable: int-e suggested Jekyll while you were away.
19:23:26 <fizzie> NotApplicable: There's apparently some built-in support for it in GitHub Pages. No idea about the details, but https://docs.github.com/en/pages/setting-up-a-github-pages-site-with-jekyll
19:23:34 <fizzie> (There's an include mechanism in it.)
19:25:00 <nakilon> how many of you have a personal page? and how many of you have a blog? like in percents
19:25:34 <int-e> I have 10% of a personal page? :-P
19:25:38 <nakilon> I mean I would like to know in percents but idk how we would know the number without giving personal answers
19:25:43 <NotApplicable> I didnt really want to use Jekyll because I wanted to have alot of control over my content
19:26:00 <NotApplicable> I technically have a blog but i rarely use it
19:26:09 <NotApplicable> :P
19:26:17 <fizzie> I haven't updated mine since late 2014, does that mean the % is exponentially decaying?
19:26:20 <int-e> NotApplicable: at a glance it looked like you can get down to the html level if you want. But I haven't used it.
19:26:23 <nakilon> let's say if you didn't update it for 5 years then assume you don't have it
19:27:05 <nakilon> when I tried to have a blog ~10 years ago I could not come up with a decent style
19:27:06 <int-e> NotApplicable: also if you're looking at static site generators I suppose you can also look at others and use them on your end, instead of relying on github to do that for you somewhere in their cloud
19:27:09 <nakilon> writing style
19:28:07 <NotApplicable> int-e: I hacked together a simple linker that does the includes on my end before I publish the stuff, I am going to see if that works
19:28:07 <nakilon> then all the interesting findings with big textual commentaries of mine I had were in G+ but it's gone
19:28:37 <myname> NotApplicable: cat in post-receive hooks orks fine
19:28:46 <myname> been there, done that
19:29:03 <nakilon> then I've bought a domain and I keep paying for it while I can't chose the blog platform to use
19:30:03 <nakilon> there was some guy on reddit who made a blog platform specially for coders like a year ago, I even was in Beta, but didn't come up with a content to test it
19:30:34 <nakilon> I guess this https://coding.blog/
19:30:42 <NotApplicable> I just use Scratch and Forkphorus and an embed because Scratch is essentially free hosting
19:31:00 <NotApplicable> And it doesnt notify everybody when i update it
19:31:10 <nakilon> "AI- driven personalised" -- wtf, I don't remember it was like this
19:31:10 <NotApplicable> Not ideal, but okay
19:31:50 <NotApplicable> Only thing is i cant use profanities which isnt that big of a problem
19:32:59 <nakilon> I host on Google Cloud Storage (analogue of AWS S3) but it'll go down when I stop paying for GCP account (because I not only use free services) and also because of the "account inactivity" disabling thing on Google
19:33:23 <NotApplicable> Im a cheapo so i dont like paying for anything
19:33:46 <nakilon> GCS and S3 is basically free
19:34:13 <nakilon> you pay only 0.(0)1$ for uploading the static page
19:34:50 <nakilon> or not, I guess there is also a Free quota for uploading
19:34:53 <nakilon> so it's fully free
19:36:10 <NotApplicable> One of my friends on GH use something called infinity free which claims to be 100% free, no ads, and unlimited storage
19:36:10 <NotApplicable> but it sounds too good to be true IMO
19:36:18 <nakilon> 5GB of free storage https://cloud.google.com/storage/pricing#cloud-storage-always-free
19:37:07 <NotApplicable> I mean i font really have alot of stuff on my site so i could try that
19:37:08 <nakilon> I doubt there is anything infinity-free with direct links to pages
19:37:26 <nakilon> there were two unlimited cloud file storages and one is gone already
19:37:46 <NotApplicable> I dont think infinity-free does free SSL though
19:38:21 <nakilon> HTTPS is free for GCS only if you access via their domain, not yours
19:39:21 <nakilon> for example http://www.nakilon.pro/esolang.htm vs https://storage.googleapis.com/www.nakilon.pro/esolang.htm
19:39:48 <nakilon> the JS on the latter is even broken, didn't check why, probably because of HTTP/HTTPS security policies
19:40:27 <nakilon> I could add HTTPS for my domain via Google Cloud but that would need some non-free Balancer service IIRC
19:40:54 <nakilon> or via the domain registration, no big difference I guess
19:44:40 <NotApplicable> I dont really care for the domain, as long as its functional, its fine for me
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19:47:20 <nakilon> checked, the JS is broken because it fetches HTTP: fetch("http://
19:49:06 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
19:53:43 <nakilon> both Russian cloud platforms are cheaper than GCP and AWS but still don't have Always Free Tier (
19:54:38 <zzo38> I have a HTTP (as well as Gopher and NNTP) service on my computer, but not a "personal page" or a "blog".
19:54:46 <nakilon> I assume they are cheaper because they have lower number of "9" in SLA but that's not critical at all for Free Tier users
19:56:23 <nakilon> zzo38 was interesting to read about this thing I've discovered recently https://sdf.org/?tour/history/index
19:56:32 <nakilon> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Public_Access_Unix_System
19:56:38 <int-e> Hmm, https://cloudatcost.com/ seems to have increased their prices. But I'm sure their service is as awful as ever ;)
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20:07:13 <nakilon> is there an English idiom for https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%85
20:09:30 <NotApplicable> Not any that I can think of, really.
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20:16:32 <zzo38> Which programming languages other than PostScript use marks on the stack to make lists like PostScript does? (There probably are some, but I don't know what they are)
20:25:51 <b_jonas> zzo38: https://esolangs.org/wiki/GML sort of does, but you can't actually manipulate the mark as if it was a normal value
20:25:54 <b_jonas> so not really
20:26:06 <b_jonas> maybe blsq did? I don't remember
20:29:27 <zzo38> In Ghostscript, some of the new operators (and also the standard pdfmark operator) use a list which has not been made into its own object, for efficiency. However, I can think of another way, which does not require this, instead deferring making the array/dictionary objects; this might only be done for optimized procedures, possibly "executeonly" operator might do such optimizations (after "bind" is also used)
20:39:26 <zzo38> b_jonas: OK
20:42:05 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81781&oldid=81615 * Zzo38 * (+244)
20:45:05 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81782&oldid=81756 * Digital Hunter * (+0) /* Thue-Morse sequence */
20:48:05 <zzo38> I have seen a complaint that when pdfmark is used that you write [ without a matching ] and they apparently didn't know why; well, if you don't like that, then you can write the word "mark" instead of "[" it means the same thing.
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23:58:46 <esowiki> [[Deskileq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=81783&oldid=81779 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) /* Examples */ Cats
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