←2021-04-09 2021-04-10 2021-04-11→ ↑2021 ↑all
00:00:09 <zzo38> (This is one reason I prefer to use captions instead. With captions, it is also possible to change the font, too. It is not possible to change the font of DVD subtitles, although the format would allow changing colours/opacity, that doesn't seem to be implemented. Changing the font of DVD subtitles after it has been recorded is not possible though.)
00:00:28 <esowiki> [[User:Truttle1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82042&oldid=68840 * Truttle1 * (+58)
00:01:09 <pikhq> yeah, since DVD subtitles are just bitmaps, only so much you can do
00:02:31 <zzo38> They are stored using indexed colours, and with the specification of what colour to use for which index. So, this should easily allow the user to change which colour corresponds to which index.
00:03:19 * pikhq nods
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00:32:32 <kmc> I didn't know they are bitmaps
00:32:51 <kmc> I guess that is easier than every DVD player having fonts and rendering code for every language out there
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00:43:14 <zzo38> Yes, it is easier. It has advantages and disadvantages compared with captions (although it is possible for DVDs to have captions, too, but not all DVD players can play them; if the DVD player does not have its own ability to render captions and the connection to the display is HDMI, then it will not be possible to display the captions at all; subtitles don't have this problem, although this is also a problem with HDMI)
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00:53:59 <zzo38> How can I tell 7-Zip to add empty files?
00:55:18 <zzo38> It seems that it does, but why does'nt it list them when they are being added to the archive?
00:56:49 <kmc> zzo38: so HDMI does not include a way to carry captions data?
00:57:21 <kmc> i'm surprised to hear that
00:59:07 <zzo38> kmc: As far as I know, that is correct, it doesn't. (Someone mentioned to me SDI, and apparely SDI does.)
01:00:07 <zzo38> (I would prefer Digi-RGB+audio+IMIDI, but this is currently never used; the electrical specification has not yet been written.)
01:02:23 <zzo38> (Only the format of the data has been written so far.)
01:03:25 <nakilon> why use 7zip in the first place?
01:03:55 <pikhq> Yeah, DVDs have some aspects that feel pretty archaic because they're designed around technical limitations that are a fair bit older than their common adoption.
01:04:04 <pikhq> The technical limitations of 1995 are baked into the file format
01:04:09 <pikhq> *s
01:05:22 <zzo38> The compression of 7-Zip is better than ZIP. I tried again this time creating a ZIP archive, this time it does list all of the files. When creating a 7-Zip archive, it doesn't list empty files, but still adds them; this seems to be a bug.
01:07:08 <pikhq> Yeah, and ZIP has a max file size that's relatively small
01:07:22 <pikhq> (the zip64 extension lets you surpass that, but not much supports it)
01:08:06 <zzo38> I have never had problems with the file size limit
01:08:26 <pikhq> The file size limit is, admittedly, 4 gigs
01:08:47 <pikhq> So it's not low enough it'll prevent all uses, just low enough it'll prevent a few reasonable ones
01:11:33 <zzo38> Now I added the sokoban example into the repository of Free Hero Mesh, in case an example is wanted. Later, it might be better to have a proper puzzle set catalog, like how Tom7's Escape game has a level catalog by internet.
01:13:17 <zzo38> (Currently a compressed tape archive is used, but for the puzzle catalog, a compressed Hamster archive might be better.)
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02:05:27 <esowiki> [[Abcout]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82043&oldid=82020 * Sporeball * (+0) link to Subleq within quote
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02:38:11 <nakilon> this max file limit might be the only reason to not use zip
02:38:35 <nakilon> if that's a problem I would check the .tar.gz out
02:40:09 <nakilon> but 7zip is just a cancer unconsciously marketed out to relatively noticable use by those who have a bit more knowledge about computers than a farm worker
02:41:00 <nakilon> there are hundreds of compressors and if you want to debate on that subject you'll find that 7zip isn't the best so it's not an argument
02:41:58 <nakilon> the real argument is compatibility and AFAIK the most crossplatform formats for compressing files are .ZIP and .TAR.GZ
02:42:08 <nakilon> everything else needs shitty installers
02:44:08 <nakilon> and going back to real benchmarks, the RAR still wins if you add this up with the fact that it's not abandoned unlike most of others https://gist.github.com/Nakilon/09fac4335b95f9617e4c82af4d9e1e7d
02:45:50 <nakilon> also the last time I had to unpack 7zip it could not unpack, lol, was not liking the file names encoding
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03:40:48 <zzo38> Actually, I decompressed a RAR file I saw and recompressed it as 7Z format and the 7Z file is smaller. However, neither format is quite what I would have wanted. I had my own idea, which includes VM codes so that specialized algorithms are possible; ZPAQ does that, but I don't really like its design and would prefer having archiving and compression separate (like .tar.gz is).
03:41:08 <zzo38> But ZIP is most common, so if you don't need the features or extra compression of other formats, then ZIP can be used.
03:47:48 <zzo38> One possible advantage of captions over subtitles is the possibility of caption scrollback, although I don't know of anything that implements it. (For some uses, hidden captions would also be useful; I think EIA-708 has this, but I don't know if it is used. I think it has tagged captions, but I haven't seen any implementation that has options to customize the tag mask.)
03:49:40 <zzo38> DVD subtitles are numbered, and also are identified by languages. I read about one movie that has an option for English and French subtitles together (depending on the speech); how would you specify the language for that in the DVD subtitles format?
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05:40:02 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82044&oldid=81781 * Zzo38 * (+572)
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05:59:20 <nakilon> you may consider not just specialized algorithm but a specialised training data
06:00:33 <nakilon> some successfull decompressors are using a generic algorithms plus the preforged "description" of the data the decompressor should expect to unpack to
06:01:46 <nakilon> it's essentially putting the knowledge about the data into the decompressor and the more effective they get the more they weight nowadays
06:02:22 <nakilon> like recognition AIs you know
06:06:56 <nakilon> so the thing is if your goal isn't to distribute something self-extracting but to make users to have a decompressor installed separately from the data they'll get later separately then I would look for tools that provide the way to build the training data from your sample input
06:07:30 <nakilon> but again this might be just not worth it
06:14:18 <esowiki> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82045&oldid=82044 * Zzo38 * (+831)
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11:30:43 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Olus2000 * New user account
11:44:09 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82046&oldid=81925 * Olus2000 * (+323) Introduction of Olus2000
11:53:05 <esowiki> [[User:Olus2000]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82047 * Olus2000 * (+249) Initial commit
11:55:23 <esowiki> [[User:Olus2000]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82048&oldid=82047 * Olus2000 * (+0) Capitalisation of BAL
12:08:54 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Schadimander * New user account
12:14:00 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82049&oldid=82046 * Schadimander * (+284) introducing?
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12:26:07 <esowiki> [[Talk:English]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82050&oldid=68486 * Schadimander * (+160)
12:26:22 <esowiki> [[Talk:English]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82051&oldid=82050 * Schadimander * (+2)
12:28:41 <fizzie> I seem to remember there was some convention in DVD subtitles to use an uncommon (relatively speaking) language as an ad-hoc standard for some other purpose. Can't remember the details though.
12:29:30 <fizzie> Or maybe I'm thinking of DVB broadcasting (in Finland), and using some uncommon language for the accessibility / hearing-impaired / audio description captions.
12:32:44 <fizzie> Some interweb searching seems to suggest DVB has dedicated subtitle types for "regular use" and "hearing impaired", but I guess it's not impossible they might have been worried about software support and still picked a different fake language code.
13:00:36 <b_jonas> nakilon: no, 7zip is a decent compressor for its own format, with a nice easily tunable parameter, a nice package supporting a lot of existing compressed and misc formats, a usable windows GUI, with a terribly messed up command-line interface. but since it's open source, it should be possible to fix the command-line interface. I use 7zip to do much of my compression these days.
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13:26:08 <esowiki> [[Functional()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82052&oldid=81578 * Hakerh400 * (+786) Add hello-world example
13:34:32 <esowiki> [[Referencement]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82053&oldid=79029 * Hakerh400 * (+2715) Add TIO links
13:56:49 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck Assembly Language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82054 * Olus2000 * (+6178) Initial commit
14:04:00 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82055&oldid=82031 * Olus2000 * (+34) Added Brainfuck Assembly Language
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14:31:29 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheTermProgrammer * New user account
14:49:27 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82056&oldid=80257 * Betseg * (+407) /* Metacategorization */ new section
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14:52:25 <betseg> how do i propose a page for deletion
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14:54:36 <betseg> hewwo
14:54:40 <betseg> how do i propose a page for deletion
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15:10:17 <kspalaiologos> which page is it
15:10:26 <kspalaiologos> you can @tell fizzie about it, probably. or ping them.
15:10:43 <betseg> emojicode
15:10:53 <betseg> it redirects to an unrelated language
15:11:48 <betseg> and emojicode itself is a non-eso lang
15:12:37 <kspalaiologos> emojicode is an esolang
15:13:16 <betseg> is it
15:14:01 <kspalaiologos> it's an attempt of creating a bizzare language and then branding it as a normal language
15:14:26 <kspalaiologos> there's no advantage of using emojis like this
15:14:59 <betseg> it's a normal language that happens to use emoji as its reserved words and function names
15:16:05 <kspalaiologos> asm2bf is a serious assembler, yet it's still considered an esolang by most people.
15:19:02 <kspalaiologos> someone could probably write an esolangs wiki article on it, though.
15:19:20 <kspalaiologos> it's esoteric enough to have it's own article, and if APL deserves being on the wiki, then emojicode surely does too :P
15:19:21 <betseg> yeah it's still a false redirecrt
15:19:37 <betseg> wait APL is considered esoteric???
15:19:54 <kspalaiologos> i know multiple people who think that APL/J are esolangs
15:19:59 <betseg> oh its article says "non-esoteric"
15:20:11 <kspalaiologos> it's a bit esoteric, esoteric as in "usual"
15:20:17 <kspalaiologos> s/usual/unusual
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15:29:51 <lyncid[m]> oh hello betseg, didn't expect to see you here (am kritixi)
15:30:13 <betseg> hi!
15:35:37 <esowiki> [[Emojicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82057&oldid=66398 * Betseg * (+55) Removed redirect to [[Emoji]]
15:36:39 <esowiki> [[Emojicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82058&oldid=82057 * Betseg * (+53)
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15:45:31 <esowiki> [[Emojicode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82059&oldid=82058 * Betseg * (+10)
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16:17:29 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82060&oldid=82037 * Umanochiocciola * (-133) /* Documentation */
16:20:06 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82061&oldid=82060 * Umanochiocciola * (+37) /* Documentation */
16:20:43 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck But With Buffer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82062&oldid=81679 * Umanochiocciola * (-35) /* Commands */
16:21:04 <esowiki> [[Falel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82063&oldid=82061 * Umanochiocciola * (+14) /* Documentation */
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16:40:38 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82064 * Olus2000 * (+607) initial commit
16:41:47 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82065&oldid=82064 * Olus2000 * (+14) Corrected category link
16:42:47 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82066&oldid=82065 * Olus2000 * (+0) Corrected category
16:47:55 <esowiki> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82067&oldid=82055 * Olus2000 * (+24) Added toki pi ilo nanpa
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18:04:53 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82068&oldid=82066 * Betseg * (+14)
18:05:05 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82069&oldid=82068 * Betseg * (-15)
18:06:40 <esowiki> [[Emojicode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82070&oldid=82059 * Betseg * (+39)
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18:43:26 <int-e> Ooph, I finished Recursed... only to discover https://recursed-ice-palace.github.io/
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19:15:25 <esowiki> [[Toki pi ilo nanpa]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82071&oldid=82069 * Olus2000 * (+2169) Base info on variables
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19:22:42 <olus2000> Recursed looks awesome, and very affordable too! Thanks for the mention.
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19:49:55 <int-e> olus2000: it is a very cute game. be warned that the puzzles get quite hard though.
19:51:25 <int-e> (I bought it two years ago actually and didn't finish it on the first run. I restarted from scratch a week or two ago... though obviously I still remembered quite a few tricks.)
19:51:45 <esowiki> [[DriftLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82072&oldid=81558 * Hakerh400 * (-1) /* Syntactic sugar */
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20:38:53 <arcsor5> hello again
20:38:59 <arcsor5> After a long hiatus, i am back
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20:45:02 <int-e> ollehrjan
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20:53:09 <olus2000> Judging by the first half of the levels I wish it were harder, but I believe next word will start to be a serious problem. That's what I like in puzzle levels.
20:53:28 <oerjan> hint-e
20:54:51 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82073&oldid=82056 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+184) /* Metacategorization */ Reply
20:55:45 <oerjan> so we've learned that vozzling is topologically similar to knitting, and children love vozzlers.
20:57:05 <oerjan> i conclude that they're manifold surgeons, who repair hyperdimensional plush toys.
20:59:42 <oerjan> int-e: also it will be interesting to see if kjarl retains any of his time powers. should be useful in a war...
20:59:58 <oerjan> although gil already has the dreen
21:00:25 <oerjan> but kjarl seems to be easier to communicate with
21:01:27 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded Arithmetic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82074&oldid=81643 * Quintopia * (-4) correct analytical engine programming cards link
21:01:36 * oerjan is still catching up to stuff. currently binging shtetl-optimized
21:02:52 <esowiki> [[Blindfolded Arithmetic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82075&oldid=82074 * Quintopia * (+4) bullets
21:08:13 <int-e> olus2000: it starts out easy... the first tricky levels should turn up in the ruins
21:09:25 <int-e> (so the 4th level set)
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21:29:40 <int-e> oerjan: Hmm I guess I have given up on trying to predict GG, so I have not thought about what Kjarl may do in the future.
21:31:55 <oerjan> shocking
21:32:05 <int-e> It was complicated enough before they skipped, what was it, 8 months? after Klaus froze Mechanicsburg.
21:33:10 <oerjan> 2 1/2 years iirc
21:33:35 <int-e> ah, worse
21:34:10 <int-e> So I'm pondering small things. Like... what did Krosp notice about that cat?
21:34:33 <oerjan> my theory: martellus made it have super-high cat rank like krosp
21:35:00 <oerjan> so it's the first cat he's ever met that doesn't submit to him
21:36:34 <oerjan> essentially, she's the empress of all cats
21:36:47 <int-e> that could be fun
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22:17:37 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82076&oldid=81744 * Grom * (+12)
22:19:45 <esowiki> [[Grain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82077&oldid=82076 * Grom * (+0)
22:20:16 <esowiki> [[Grain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82078&oldid=82077 * Grom * (+24)
22:27:09 <esowiki> [[Analytical Engine Programming Cards]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82079&oldid=81642 * Quintopia * (+3421) /* Attendant Cards */
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23:51:26 <zzo38> I like to be able to skip to whatever level of the puzzle game that I want to do, and keep track of which ones are solved or unsolved
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