00:22:11 <Sgeo> What quirk of DNS allows choosemyhat.com to be legitimate but www.choosemyhat.com to be cybersquatted? Also pinging... where's Gregor?
00:22:48 <Sgeo> Wait I guess that's not cybersquatting. It just... looks it?
00:23:16 <Sgeo> I could have sworn I've seen websites where one of them was squatted by a spammer and the other wasn't
00:23:19 <int-e> neither of those domains exist
00:23:58 <fizzie> choosemyhat.com -> 71.19.155.102, www.choosemyhat.com -> 109.68.33.18.
00:24:01 <int-e> my bad, I omitted the final 'm'.
00:24:54 <Sgeo> Why wouldn't they be configured to the same address? I ... doubt Gregor would have pointed the latter away from his site?
00:25:14 <Sgeo> The FAQ links to the www version
00:25:38 <int-e> Well obviously there's nothing that says that www.foo.bar. has to be the same as foo.bar.
00:26:15 <fizzie> 71.19.155.102 reverse-resolves into libdl.so (which I think is Gregor's as well), the other one doesn't to anything.
00:26:57 <fizzie> As far as DNS quirks go, the thing that's called the zone apex (e.g., choosemyhat.com) is a *little* bit special, at least in the sense that you can't delegate it to a CDN with a CNAME.
00:27:23 <fizzie> There's a proposed HTTPS record type that solves that issue as one of its side effects.
00:28:13 <fizzie> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-svcb-https/
00:30:18 <int-e> Sgeo: well, bu the looks of it it is the registrar of the domain, not a squatter... I guess they add a default www.<domain> entry when a domain is registered?
00:31:19 <int-e> or maybe they have a cheap option where that entry is mandatory ;)
00:38:16 <int-e> Sgeo: anyway, switching registrars seems the most likely cause here, to me. Note that codu.org (which just forwards to Gregor's github) is similarly afflicted.
00:38:43 <fizzie> Maybe it's just a creative way to follow the no-www.org philosophy.
00:39:21 <zzo38> One reason why you might want a different address for "www" or not is in case there are reasons why they have to be different computers at different locations which are managed separately, although these days I would think to manage the computers together in one place, and use a router to switch them depending on the port numbers.
00:39:22 <fizzie> Leave the `www.` prefix to point at a macabre ad-riddled page people would rather not see, to condition them to start omitting the www.
00:42:24 <zzo38> (I don't use multiple domain names; I think just one is good enough for me. If I thought that I later needed to split the services across a computer that is somewhere else, then I might want to set up a separate domain name for it, in order that it can be easily changed, even if the address is initially the same.)
00:46:47 <fizzie> One setup that I think is semi-typical is to have `www.example.com` be a CNAME to something like `www.example.com.cdn.cloudflare.net`, so that example.com's authoritative DNS can be managed outside Cloudflare's name servers, but still let their CDN do the things they need to do to serve the content. But in that case you must point the root example.com name to something else, because it can't be a CNAME,
00:47:28 <fizzie> For example, at least from where I'm looking, www.mozilla.com is a CNAME to prod.refractr.mozit.cloud (which resolves to a couple A records), but plain mozilla.com by necessity just has those A records plus the other things (SOA, NS, TXT, MX, ...) you need at the root of a zone.
00:50:32 <int-e> surely that rule is artificial as the now-relaxed rules that a CNAME cannot point to another CNAME
00:51:36 <fizzie> Well, maybe. But maybe not.
00:51:37 <int-e> (AIUI, it is now okay to have two indirections, and the reason for that is the energence of CDNs)
00:52:30 <fizzie> The thing is, CNAME is intended to alias the *entire* name, not just some records. But the root of the zone really kind of must have the SOA and NS records.
00:52:50 <fizzie> So it's definitely "less artificial" than the CNAME-to-CNAME rule.
00:52:55 <int-e> hmm. yeah that's a good point.
00:53:19 <esowiki> [[Dance machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82622 * Trump bot 2 * (+262) Created page with "''The title of this article is incorrect due to technical limitations. The correct title is still to be determined.'' This is a language based on choreography. The source code..."
00:54:57 <fizzie> You could maybe have the thing you point the CNAME at contain those other zone-related records, but I guess you usually wouldn't want to delegate those, you'd just want to delegate the "host" properties.
00:55:56 <int-e> no, you're right, I didn't take SOA into account when I called that rule artificial
00:56:52 <int-e> (and the other two you mentioned, though I'm less sure why they couldn't be delegated in principle)
00:59:53 <fizzie> I imagine they *could*, it's just that quite plausibly you might want to keep them separate. If you're really just interested in delegating A/AAAA of example.com for the purposes of HTTP(S) and maybe some other protocols, you wouldn't necessarily want to have to manage the email configuration of that zone through the DNS servers of wherever you're delegating to.
01:02:10 <fizzie> They had a proposal specifically for that (ANAME), but I feel like that maybe isn't really going anywhere: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-aname/
01:02:15 <fizzie> Yeah, listed as expired.
01:02:35 <fizzie> ANAME was supposed to be "like CNAME except only for address queries".
01:04:52 <fizzie> I imagine people must probably have also been fixing it on the DNS serving side, by making tools that let you say "automatically copy A/AAAA records from this address and serve them here".
01:05:27 <fizzie> Oh, I guess that's actually part of that ANAME proposal?
01:06:57 <int-e> "Implementation status"... sounds like it.
01:08:55 <int-e> Oh also part of the spec, yeah. I guess that's important because otherwise there's no way this would work in practice with existing software.
01:10:49 <int-e> Which maybe explains why this isn't going anywhere; at that point it's basically just a cosmetic change for a solved problem. (We can delegate A/AAAA records on the DNS server side; an ANAME record would just serve to make this fact transparent to other parties.)
01:54:20 <esowiki> [[User talk:New Army]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82623 * Trump bot 2 * (+66) Created page with "Please remember mai foan: ait ait ait ait nin to ait cevn fiv cevn"
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03:57:34 <b_jonas> whoa, I'm getting academic spam saying "Dear Colleage" instead of "Dear Professor". what happened to calling everyone a professor regardless of who they actually are?
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04:37:28 <zzo38> Maybe because now they are trying to write to someone who is not a professor, or maybe the recipient told them that they are not a professor so they changed it so that it doesn't say professor
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06:17:07 <esowiki> [[User:Trump Bot/List of xkcd articles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82624&oldid=82610 * Trump bot 2 * (+56)
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07:05:36 <esowiki> [[User talk:New Army]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82625&oldid=82623 * Trump bot 2 * (+75)
07:06:52 <esowiki> [[User talk:New Army]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82626&oldid=82625 * Trump bot 2 * (+56)
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10:53:03 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82627&oldid=82468 * RetroPain * (-12)
10:54:31 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82628&oldid=82627 * RetroPain * (+40) /* Some other facts */
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11:10:10 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82629&oldid=82337 * RXVT100 * (-2189) /* Testing */
11:10:22 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82630&oldid=82629 * RXVT100 * (-1181) /* Konfyne */
11:10:32 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82631&oldid=82630 * RXVT100 * (-2591) /* kcufniarB */
11:10:40 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82632&oldid=82631 * RXVT100 * (-6299) /* Stackomp */
11:10:51 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82633&oldid=82632 * RXVT100 * (-28471) /* Ini */
11:11:01 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82634&oldid=82633 * RXVT100 * (-278) /* Bad title */
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11:16:26 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82635&oldid=82634 * RXVT100 * (+1145)
11:29:44 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82636&oldid=70195 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) cat
13:24:44 <esowiki> [[Countdown]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82637&oldid=54267 * Angel * (+24)
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14:42:31 <int-e> . o O ( Philosophical question: Can there be vandalism on a sandbox page? )
14:45:28 <int-e> why would Esolang_talk:Sandbox be in the Language category?!
14:46:11 <Taneb> That's a talk page for the sandbox page, right, rather than the talk page?
14:46:34 <Taneb> Which _definitely_ should't be in the Languages category
14:46:57 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82638&oldid=82636 * Int-e * (-24) Undo revision 82636 by [[Special:Contributions/PythonshellDebugwindow|PythonshellDebugwindow]] ([[User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow|talk]]) --This is not a language; I don't see how the category makes any sense here.
14:46:57 <esowiki> [[Defunc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82639&oldid=80906 * Obvious * (+770) Addition about turing completeness (yay!)
14:47:21 <fizzie> Yeah. I'm semi-surprised putting a category tag on a talk page even works, but apparently it does.
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14:48:03 <fizzie> ("Esolang talk:Sandbox" showed up under S in the Category:Languages index.)
14:48:21 <fizzie> (It's gone now, of course.)
14:51:16 <int-e> I'm also dismayed to see that Trump bot has returned as Trump bot 2... I'm kind of worried whether https://esolangs.org/wiki/File:Hello_world_QR_code.png really says "Hello, world!"
14:52:49 <Taneb> It seems to be the literal text "Hello, world!"
14:52:58 <int-e> The obvious shenanigans are on https://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:New_Army of course.
14:53:15 <Taneb> I'm not convinced that QR codes count as esolangs
14:53:21 <Taneb> But that's a separate issue
14:53:48 <int-e> Sure, but I was more worried about the text being something entirely different. And I have no convenient QR scanner at hand.
14:54:01 <Taneb> I installed one the other day, by coincidence
14:57:26 <HackEso> The password of the month is hiding in plain sight.
15:03:07 <int-e> Oh it's been a while since a brainfuck derivative made me chuckle: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Consequential
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15:48:22 <esowiki> [[A345120268A9]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82640 * RXVT100 * (+2289) Created page with "'''A345120268A9''' is a tape-based language based off of [[brainfuck]] & designed by [[User:RXVT100]] ==Syntax== A345120268A9 has 13 commands, 12 not including np (NOP) eve..."
15:51:33 <esowiki> [[Swordfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82641&oldid=37091 * RXVT100 * (+0) /* Commands */
15:53:56 <esowiki> [[User:RXVT100]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82642&oldid=82577 * RXVT100 * (-369) Replaced content with "created [[A345120268A9]]"
15:54:33 <esowiki> [[A345120268A9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82643&oldid=82640 * RXVT100 * (+0) /* Syntax */
16:25:08 <esowiki> [[Chem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82644&oldid=78746 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-13) Remove redundant forcetoc
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17:44:34 <esowiki> [[DFA-er]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82645&oldid=82164 * Largejamie * (+676) /* Examples */
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18:20:07 <esowiki> [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82646&oldid=82638 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Fine, fine...
18:20:09 <esowiki> [[2020]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82647&oldid=82527 * EnilKoder * (+75) added <=>
19:11:17 <zzo38> QR codes are not esolangs or a programming language at all it is a kind of 2D barcodes.
19:12:54 <zzo38> (Although, some esolangs may produce code short enough to encode on a QR code.)
19:34:46 <kmc> one time i gave my friend a birthday card that included a full x86 linux executable as a QR code
19:37:02 <esowiki> [[User:SunnyMoon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82648&oldid=77985 * SunnyMoon * (-785) Useless update
19:55:48 <zzo38> What program is that?
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19:57:05 <kmc> it was just a little toy that rendered a colorful animation in the terminal
19:57:18 <kmc> and would respond to mouse movements using the terminal control codes for those
19:58:05 <kmc> i used some of the usual tricks to make it a small and self-contained binary (static, no libc, custom ELF header)
20:00:14 <kmc> i don't recall exactly
20:00:33 <kmc> few hundred bytes probably
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20:05:49 <fizzie> You can get up to 2953 bytes in a single (40-L) code. I had the occasion to look these up recently, was planning to back up some binary data on paper.
20:13:03 <zzo38> Would you also include the file name and hash as text on the page heading above the QR codes? Also, how many pages do you need?
20:17:10 <fizzie> It was just some keys. I think it would be just one page. I haven't got around to actually doing it yet. But printing a hash might be a good idea too.
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21:04:43 <ais523> I see there's been talk about the Trump Bot user
21:04:56 <ais523> I thought it was worthwhile to come here to chat to the other esolangs.org admins to see what to do
21:07:06 <imode> what's the Trump Bot doing?
21:07:45 <ais523> it's just a troll targeting esolangs.org
21:08:23 <ais523> we banned them already
21:08:26 <ais523> but they made a new account
21:08:33 <ais523> I'm going to ban the new one too I think
21:09:31 <imode> is it just replacing stuff with trump?
21:10:20 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ais523 * blocked [[User:Trump bot 2]] with an expiration time of indefinite (account creation disabled, email disabled, cannot edit own talk page): Abusing multiple accounts: already banned under another account
21:10:35 <ais523> no, mostly talkpage trolling
21:11:56 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:Hello world QR code.png]]": created by blocked user while circumventing the block
21:12:13 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:Hello world bar code.png]]": created by blocked user while circumventing the block
21:12:31 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82649&oldid=82617 * Ais523 * (-51) Undo revision 82603 by [[Special:Contributions/Trump bot 2|Trump bot 2]] ([[User talk:Trump bot 2|talk]]): blocked user circumventing block
21:12:48 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82650&oldid=82649 * Ais523 * (-52) Undo revision 82605 by [[Special:Contributions/Trump bot 2|Trump bot 2]] ([[User talk:Trump bot 2|talk]]): blocked user circumventing block
21:13:09 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User:Trump Bot/List of xkcd articles]]": userpage of indefinitely blocked user
21:13:17 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[User talk:New Army]]": created by blocked user while circumventing the block
21:13:32 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Dance machine]]": created by blocked user while circumventing the block
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21:21:34 <ais523> as for categorising talk pages: you can do that and it's even useful sometimse
21:21:55 <ais523> Wikipedia categorises talk pages to say which wikiprojects work on the corresponding articles, for example
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23:47:44 <esowiki> [[Skinny pig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82651&oldid=82619 * Zero player rodent * (+143)
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