00:01:21 <esowiki> [[Skinny pig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82652&oldid=82651 * Zero player rodent * (+234)
00:04:52 <esowiki> [[Skinny pig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82653&oldid=82652 * Zero player rodent * (+98)
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01:02:29 <zzo38> I had recently read some of the NeWS documentation. There are a few good ideas (such as append to concatenate strings/arrays and arrayop which is similar to zipWith in Haskell, if I remember properly what I read about NeWS), although some things can already be done better in standard PostScript (maybe NeWS is too old?), some are probably not needed or done badly, some things are missing, etc.
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01:56:58 <esowiki> [[Duocentehexaquinquagesimal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82654&oldid=82212 * Makonede * (-4)
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02:06:17 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82655&oldid=82505 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+329)
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02:17:29 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82656&oldid=82655 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+402) You can put emoticons outside the edit summary like this) :-
02:22:43 <esowiki> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82657&oldid=82656 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+73) Have a good day /* ) */-
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02:39:36 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82658&oldid=82635 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+214)
02:45:01 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82659&oldid=82658 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+189)
02:51:01 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82660&oldid=82659 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+448)
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02:55:50 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82661&oldid=82660 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+120)
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06:03:05 <esowiki> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82662 * Ais523 * (+453) reply
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07:59:46 <esowiki> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82663&oldid=82662 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+296)
08:03:04 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82664&oldid=82661 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (-102)
08:09:42 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82665&oldid=82664 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+504) oNE MORER
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08:19:04 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82666&oldid=82665 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+508) More codes
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08:33:03 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82668&oldid=82667 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+174)
08:38:50 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82669&oldid=82668 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+499)
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08:48:18 <esowiki> [[Help, WarDoq!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82670&oldid=73598 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+149) Please check if I ruined anything. If yes, please fix it.
08:52:38 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82671&oldid=82669 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+286)
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09:19:53 <esowiki> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82672&oldid=82650 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+2602) /* A.R.T.I.C.L.E. */
09:20:33 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82673&oldid=82671 * ColorfulGalaxy (disambiguation) * (+623)
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12:19:54 <esowiki> [[Help, WarDoq!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82674&oldid=82670 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-28) /* Language Overview */ Why is citation needed?
12:24:57 <esowiki> [[Hello]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82675&oldid=73519 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+143) /* Interpreter */ Quinepreter
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13:05:02 <esowiki> [[Forest]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82676&oldid=81803 * Hakerh400 * (-1) /* Syntax */ fix typo
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13:11:34 <esowiki> [[Asm2bf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82677&oldid=82111 * Sech1p * (+844) v1.5.4a
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13:23:46 <esowiki> [[Lisparser]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82678&oldid=79672 * Hakerh400 * (-4) /* Commands */
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13:54:37 <nakilon> у / ý / ÿ / ŷ / ƴ / ȳ / ɏ / ỳ / ỹ / ỿ / ẏ / ẙ / ỵ / ỷ
14:01:41 <HackEso> [U+024F LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH STROKE]
14:02:10 <b_jonas> nakilon: of those, у is used in many languages, ý is Icelandic, ÿ is a very rare letter in French, ŷ and ỳ are rare and probably only exist in Welsh, three more occur in Vietnamese, the rest are ones I probably never expect to see in real life because I don't do linguistics research
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14:06:48 <b_jonas> heck, "probably only exist in Welsh" is kind of misleading about Vietnamese letters
14:07:37 <int-e> (the U+024F is not in my font (still using the default X11 `fixed` font))
14:08:31 <b_jonas> int-e: it might be one of those things used in some phonemic transcriptions by linguists, but not in written language
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14:10:39 <b_jonas> or it could be one of those that a linguist once used for a new writing system of an obscure african language
14:11:04 <b_jonas> but it's in the pronunciation symbols block
14:12:47 <b_jonas> if you want a font for these, there's always `? fonts
14:12:50 <HackEso> #esoteric bitmap fonts include: \oren\'s font http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm , lifthrasiir's font https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ , b_jonas's font http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/fecupboard20-c.pcf.gz , fizzie's font https://github.com/fis/rfk86/tree/master/web/font , FireFly's fonts http://xen.firefly.nu/up/fonts/
14:14:26 <b_jonas> at some point I should update my font with more characters, not these obscure pronunciation symbols really but rather mathematical symbols, better looking greek, and basic support for Cyrillic
14:15:18 <b_jonas> (basic support means all letters in the modern Russian, Ukranian, Serbian Cyrillic, Macedonian, Bulgarian alphabets)
14:15:44 <b_jonas> and at some point I should finish the tiny (6 px tall) variable pitch font that I started
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14:31:57 <esowiki> [[Help, WarDoq!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82679&oldid=82674 * Ais523 * (+1) tags fix
14:32:16 <myname> i didn't know we have multiple fonts
14:32:54 <fizzie> Mine is very much optimized for the rfk86 port, which is why the only implemented characters are U+0000..00ff, 2190..2193 (4 most basic arrows) and 2500..257f (block drawing).
14:33:58 <ais523> I think ÿ might theoretically exist in English but not be present in any words
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14:35:52 <myname> oren's font is pretty advanced, i guess
14:35:57 <b_jonas> ais523: doesn't Asimov have a character named Noÿs in "End of Eternity"?
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14:36:08 <b_jonas> yes, oren's font is the most complete among these,
14:36:18 <b_jonas> though lifthrasiir's font comes second
14:36:19 <ais523> b_jonas: yes, and it's clear how it would be pronounced
14:36:37 <myname> is that one ligature really a hth?
14:36:54 <ais523> looking for hyphenated words with a vowel before the hyphen and y afterwards, "one-year" seems to be the most common
14:37:23 <ais523> and "oneÿear" would be much easier to read/pronounce than "oneyear" would be
14:38:05 <ais523> hmm… we have some loanwords from Welsh where w is a vowel, so that might theoretically argue for the presence of a ẅ
14:38:23 <HackEso> [U+1E85 LATIN SMALL LETTER W WITH DIAERESIS]
14:38:36 <b_jonas> ais523: http://blog.asimovreviews.net/2015/11/04/so-how-do-you-pronounce-noys-anyway/
14:39:21 <b_jonas> ais523: I usually put hyphens in compound words that would be hard to read without, even when the hyphen is nonstandard. the most common such case is "szemetes-zsák", normally spelled without a hyphen but I find that ugly
14:40:24 <b_jonas> I don't use diaeresis for such in English (in French it's fine)
14:40:42 <ais523> I use diaresis for it when I think I can get away with it, which is hardly ever
14:41:01 <ais523> "preëmptive" used to be common in books, but isn't any more (it's usually spelled "pre-emptive" instead nowadays)
14:41:42 <ais523> although, oddly, it isn't in the Google Ngrams data, I think they both got normalised to "preemptive"
14:41:43 <b_jonas> or at least I don't use diaeresis in new words, and don't us diaeresis in words like cooperate or coordinate where the spelling without diaeresis is common too,
14:41:59 <ais523> I think "coöperate" is only seen in #esoteric
14:42:21 <zzo38> At least, it is only where I have seen such spelling
14:42:30 <b_jonas> I might perhaps use diaeresis in a word that everyone writes with diaeresis, but I don't recall any such word in English (again French is different),
14:42:41 <int-e> when I learned english, the word "reuse" had me confused for quite some time
14:43:02 <ais523> "Noël" and "Zoë" used to universally have the diaeresis, but even those have been losing it recently
14:43:10 <int-e> but I've never learned the diaresis thing
14:43:38 <int-e> and you'd think they would use that when teaching english as a foreign language, sigh
14:43:40 <ais523> now I'm mentally pronouncing "reuse" under German pronunciation rules, it's almost unrecognisable
14:44:08 <b_jonas> I do sometimes use "æ" and "œ" in English words though: archæology, cornucopœia, pharmacopœia, mediæval
14:44:22 <int-e> though maybe they can't do that to germans because of the umlauts
14:44:31 <ais523> I've seen a discussion of these which argues that "æ" is correct in some words and "ae" in others, depending on pronounciation and etymology
14:45:16 <b_jonas> ais523: yes, I write aether rather than æther, except possibly in the names of M:tG cards, but those M:tG cards have been errataed to use aether too now
14:45:42 <b_jonas> and I write mediaeval more often than mediæval
14:45:52 <ais523> obviously they should have used more non-ASCII letters to force their databases to work properly
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14:46:10 <ais523> Wikipedia says that "medieval" is now the most common spelling even in the UK
14:46:21 <b_jonas> ais523: oddly I don't think the æ caused a problem in their databases
14:46:34 <ais523> (whereas most æ's became ae in British English and e in American English)
14:46:37 <b_jonas> yes, I know medieval is the more common spelling, but I think that looks ugly
14:46:54 <ais523> also I hate the fact that you use 's to pluralize a letter, it goes against everything that people are taught about apostrophes and s's
14:47:20 <ais523> the books on English spelling/grammar I've read say that this is an explicit special case
14:47:28 <zzo38> I prefer to write plural letters like: "A"s, "B"s, etc
14:47:42 <ais523> yes, this is the programmer way to do it, I think
14:47:43 <b_jonas> the letters are tricky, the easiest would be to use one of the long form letter names, either the phoenician-derived ones or one of the many telephone alphabets
14:48:05 <b_jonas> so you could say esses, sierras, or sigmas
14:48:17 <int-e> Without quotes, "A"s cannot easily be distinguished from "as".
14:49:32 <ais523> hmm, I wonder if this means that to form a possessive from a letter, you use two apostrophes
14:50:42 <b_jonas> ayes, bees (yes, that's ambiguous, see also the relevant PBF strip), cees, dees, effs, gees, aitches or haitches, iyes, jays, kays, ells, emms, enns, pees (yes, pees, don't lauch), queues, arres (it would be "ares" but that already has like three different meanings), esses, tees, yous, vees, dubyous, exes, wyes, and zeds
14:51:32 <b_jonas> or alphas, bravos, charlies, deltas, echos, etc
14:51:54 <int-e> assholes, bitches, cunts, dicks... what would e be
14:53:26 <b_jonas> int-e: eggheads or #esoteric-regulars
14:53:33 <int-e> (This has been on my mind since I encountered the "r-word" (thanks to Twitch, who recently banned the word "retard"))
14:56:25 <b_jonas> int-e: funnily I have recently re-read the Christine Nöstlinger children's novel "Konrad oder das Kind aus der Konservbüchse", which does have a full alphabetic list of insults
14:56:45 <ais523> presumably it wouldn't necessarily be an alphabetic list of /gendered/ insults, though
14:56:53 <b_jonas> the titualar character is insulted with them
14:56:54 <ais523> especially if it's a children's novel
14:57:00 <b_jonas> let me look it up so I can quote it
14:57:06 <b_jonas> I still have the book here
14:57:07 <int-e> ais523: I thought the 'a' was gender neutral :P
14:58:16 <b_jonas> well some of the insults might be age-specific too, these are for children because Konrád is 7 years old
14:58:17 <ais523> and it's a much weaker insult than the others (there are probably instances where it's meant as a neutral description rather than a negative description)
14:58:46 <int-e> it was the first thing to come to my mind for "the a-word".
15:01:04 <b_jonas> here it is, in translation by Bor Ambrus: “Alattomos bumburnyák, cickány, dinka, ebihal, findzsafej, gügye, gyagya, holdjáró, idióta, jancsiszeg, kecskebak, lótetű, lyukas kulcs, málészáj, népelnyomó, nyavalyás, orrszarvú, ökör, pipaszárláb, répafej, sajtkukac, szemétláda, töpörtyű, tyúkmellű, ukmukkfukk, üreginyúl, vesekő, zabszem, zsebgyerek.”
15:02:03 <b_jonas> some of those are dated or not a good match for Konrád or are rather weak in general, but it's an alphabetic list that is in-universe improvised by another child and with the constraint that some taboo words wouldn't be printed in a book back then, so given those contraints it's quite funny
15:02:07 <ais523> hmm, some of htose appear to be loanwords
15:02:58 <b_jonas> that one is a quite common insult so it does seem appropriate
15:03:02 <ais523> generally speaking, if a word isn't one of the 3-4ish native Hungarian words I know and I recognise it (and it's Hungarian), it must be a loanword :-)
15:05:40 <b_jonas> the book has some more choicy but non-alphabetic insults elsewher
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15:36:24 <zzo38> Do you like this (or have comments about) this Magic: the Gathering card design? {?} Instant ;; Two target permanents copy each other. Exchange control of those permanents.
15:36:43 <zzo38> (It might not seem like much, but actually, it is a lot.)
15:37:21 <Taneb> I don't know MtG very well, can you remind me what exactly "copy" does?
15:39:04 <zzo38> Copy changes the copiable values of some object to another object's copiable values; these are only layer 1 effects, and it does not copy anything from other layers, nor counters, attachments, ownership, initial text, etc.
15:39:25 <b_jonas> Taneb: it copies the base values printed on the card (or values a token were created with) and a very few later modifications (Artificial Evolution effects, other copy effects, effects like morph or transform that change which card face is shown, and Primal Clay effects), but not most other effecrts on the card (like Giant Growth)
15:39:55 <b_jonas> Taneb: there's no rule support for "copy each other", that would probably need a rules errata, but oh well
15:40:19 <Taneb> So, zzo38's design is good for a situation where my opponent has a card with a lot of counters on it (or other non-copyable things) and I want the counters to be on my card
15:40:48 <zzo38> I think Artificial Evolution is a layer 3 effect, not layer 1.
15:40:52 <b_jonas> Taneb: or you can use it if you just want to delay stuff by causing summoning sickness
15:40:59 <zzo38> Taneb: That is one thing, but it can be used for a lot more things than that.
15:42:26 <b_jonas> zzo38: sorry, you're right, Artificial Evolution effects aren't copied either
15:43:09 <b_jonas> I'd like fewer copy effects in general, because the mechanic is not worth the rules complications, and resent how Wizards started to put a copy effect in uncommon
15:43:19 <b_jonas> it used to be on rares only back when I played
15:43:56 <b_jonas> and I mean effects that copy permanents
15:44:13 <b_jonas> effects that copy spells are also complicated but less problematic
15:44:29 <zzo38> Well, I think what rarity a card should have can depend on the set; even if a card is one that would normally be rare, uncommon might make sense in some set (and vice-versa).
15:44:52 <b_jonas> zzo38: well sure, there are still permanent copy effects in rare too, it's not only uncommons
15:45:00 <b_jonas> but they started to regularly make uncommon Clone cards
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16:05:22 <esowiki> [[Grok]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82680&oldid=81994 * AarMil42 * (+448)
16:16:28 <zzo38> You can also deflect spells, get out of combat, untap something to use it again, get rid of Auras, use it with removing one from the battlefield to reuse it, etc.
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17:26:32 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82681&oldid=82628 * RetroPain * (-12)
17:31:44 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82682&oldid=82681 * RetroPain * (+188)
17:33:19 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82683&oldid=82682 * RetroPain * (-64)
17:34:08 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kemuri * New user account
17:34:23 <esowiki> [[Pain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82684&oldid=82683 * RetroPain * (+61)
17:39:39 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82685&oldid=82601 * Kemuri * (+192)
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17:41:54 <esowiki> [[User:Kemuri]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82686 * Kemuri * (+104) Created page with "Yeah, hi. I created a little language, inspired by brainfuck: [https://github.com/gXLg/jitejix jitejix]"
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18:57:45 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Kaveh Yousefi * New user account
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19:16:49 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Dreamvoyager * uploaded "[[File:Rayuelaicon.png]]": rayuela
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20:06:08 <esowiki> [[2DFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82688&oldid=77931 * SunnyMoon * (-1) *Confused confusing confiuson*
20:09:55 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck Assembly Language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82689&oldid=82054 * Olus2000 * (+2495) Added the ternary variant
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20:25:02 <esowiki> [[Brainfuck Assembly Language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82690&oldid=82689 * Olus2000 * (+49) Link to "balanced ternary" wikipedia
20:35:10 <esowiki> [[User:Olus2000]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82691&oldid=82048 * Olus2000 * (+53)
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20:52:17 <esowiki> [[Talk:Brainfuck Assembly Language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82692 * Olus2000 * (+345) Created page with "* I have zero idea how discussion pages should work ~~~~Olus2000 * I'm currently looking for ideas how to handle jumps in ternary BAL. I will elaborate if I remember and have..."
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23:33:27 <esowiki> [[Rayuela]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=82693 * Dreamvoyager * (+6982) Created page with "[[File:rayuelaicon.png|thumb|The icon for Rayuela.]] {{infobox proglang |name=Rayuela |author=[[User:Dreamvoyager]] |year=[[:Category:2021|2021]] |refimpl=<coming soon> |class..."
23:34:10 <esowiki> [[Rayuela]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82694&oldid=82693 * Dreamvoyager * (-1)
23:34:21 <esowiki> [[Rayuela]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82695&oldid=82694 * Dreamvoyager * (-1)
23:36:06 <esowiki> [[Rayuela]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82696&oldid=82695 * Dreamvoyager * (+72) /* Snippets */
23:51:14 <esowiki> [[Rayuela]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82697&oldid=82696 * Dreamvoyager * (+55) /* What Everything Means */
23:51:38 <esowiki> [[Rayuela]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=82698&oldid=82697 * Dreamvoyager * (+0) /* What Everything Means */