←2021-05-17 2021-05-18 2021-05-19→ ↑2021 ↑all
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01:07:00 <esowiki> [[Parse this sic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83002&oldid=82562 * Digital Hunter * (+243) /* Computational class */ Updated the underload-to-wdigpcras program to be shorter, and added a wdigpcras-to-underload program
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01:53:45 <esowiki> [[FlipJump]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83003&oldid=82920 * Tomhe * (+369) /* The Assembly Language */ - add segment+reserve syntax
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03:57:40 <esowiki> [[Talk:Clockwise]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83004 * Bangyen * (+733) Created page with "==Cat Program== How is the cat program supposed to work? I don't think it's possible to create one in this language because it is impossible to enter a loop and output the sam..."
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04:11:11 <esowiki> [[User:Bangyen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83005&oldid=83000 * Bangyen * (-10) /* Implementations */
04:11:59 <esowiki> [[Bit~]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83006&oldid=76535 * Bangyen * (-4) /* Implementations */
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04:15:28 <esowiki> [[EXCON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83007&oldid=76277 * Bangyen * (-61) /* Interpreter */
04:15:48 <esowiki> [[BF-PDA]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83008&oldid=76306 * Bangyen * (-1) /* External resources */
04:16:14 <esowiki> [[Suffolk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83009&oldid=82964 * Bangyen * (-1) /* Implementations */
04:16:51 <esowiki> [[RAM0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83010&oldid=76006 * Bangyen * (-1) /* Implementations */
04:17:16 <esowiki> [[BFStack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83011&oldid=75996 * Bangyen * (-1) /* Implementations */
05:01:31 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * HellishBro * New user account
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05:06:22 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83012&oldid=82983 * HellishBro * (+215) /* Introductions */
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05:23:53 <zzo38> Do you think that it can be suitable to check argv[0] to activate/disactivate "portable mode" (not installing files in home directory or otherwise common locations), if there is also some other method for overriding this decision?
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05:30:07 <imode> I forget what the C standard has to say about argv[0] but iirc it isn't a full path, right?
05:31:00 <zzo38> I think it isn't normally a full path, anyways.
05:32:10 <kmc> on unix it can be anything
05:32:34 <kmc> execve(2) takes the path of the executable and the whole argv including argv[0] separately
05:33:10 <kmc> in fact you can exec with argc == 0 and therefore no argv[0]
05:33:21 <kmc> a great many programs will segfault if you do that
05:33:35 <kmc> i'm not sure if it's allowed by C or POSIX standards, but you can do it in practice
05:34:22 <kmc> on Linux you can get the actual exec'd path from /proc/self/exe
05:34:44 <kmc> although there may be cases where it no longer exists, or never existed in the path namespace of the resulting executable
05:34:52 <kmc> s/executable/process/
05:35:21 <zzo38> Yes, but I think argv[0] is usually whatever is typed in; so, if it is in the PATH then usually the path is not typed in.
05:39:17 <shachaf> The actual executable file name is also available in AT_EXECFN
05:39:34 <shachaf> I guess (char *) getauxval(AT_EXECFN)
05:45:47 <zzo38> I have no man page for "getauxval" on my computer
05:46:44 <kmc> i have it
05:46:54 <shachaf> Are you running Linux?
05:47:07 <shachaf> Instead of using getauxval, you can get the aux values directly from the stack at process startup.
05:47:29 <shachaf> It goes argc, argv, envv, auxv
05:47:34 <nakilon> take a look at busybox
05:47:41 <nakilon> it has a ton of aliases that all call the same program
05:47:55 <nakilon> I guess the alias becomes arg[0]
05:50:27 <zzo38> Yes, other programs do that too (not only busybox). But, it isn't quite what I meant. Rather, what I meant is that if other options do not override it, it check if argv[0] has a slash; if so, then use portable mode; otherwise, look for configuration files in the home directory. I can also add a command-line switch to disable portable mode and a special environment variable to force portable mode with a specific directory.
05:51:03 <kmc> bash exec lets you specify argv[0] explicitly (via -a)
05:51:12 <kmc> bash -c 'exec -a foo ls -?'
05:51:15 <kmc> makes ls think it's named foo
05:51:41 <zzo38> Yes, that can be useful sometimes in case the program cares about argv[0]
05:51:49 <kmc> but i'm not sure if there's a way to exec with no argv[0] without writing a custom C program
05:53:47 <zzo38> Apparently on Amiga clicking on the program will set argc=0; argv is filled in if you type in the name of the program
05:55:23 <kmc> interesting
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09:59:31 <fizzie> argc == 0 is allowed by the C standard, though arguably (no pun intended) it would be "more correct" to set argc == 1 and make argv[0] the empty string if the implementation knows about program names, but the program name just doesn't happen to be available: https://0x0.st/-jdX.txt
09:59:39 <fizzie> (C11
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10:11:09 <shachaf> I once got this message from Donald Knuth:
10:11:21 <shachaf> "A few minutes ago I spoke with Ken Thompson. He confirms that he and his colleagues never wanted argc to be 0; and he agrees with me that the authors of C89 should not have allowed that case to be legal. He is pretty sure that Plan 9, in particular, always ensured that argc>=1, by supplying a default environment if necessary."
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10:15:00 <fizzie> Appeal to authority. ;)
10:15:10 <nakilon> he messaged you?
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10:19:05 <fizzie> POSIX rationale has a bit about how it originally required >= 1, but since ISO C said 0 is okay, they now only say it "should" be one (but a "should" is a binding requirement for a strictly conforming POSIX application).
10:19:18 <fizzie> > Early proposals required that the value of argc passed to main() be "one or greater". This was driven by the same requirement in drafts of the ISO C standard. In fact, historical implementations have passed a value of zero when no arguments are supplied to the caller of the exec functions. This requirement was removed from the ISO C standard and subsequently removed from this volume of POSIX.1-2017 as
10:19:20 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:41: error: <hint>:1:41: error: parse error on input ‘of’
10:19:24 <fizzie> well. The wording, in particular the use of the word should, requires a Strictly Conforming POSIX Application to pass at least one argument to the exec function, thus guaranteeing that argc be one or greater when invoked by such an application. In fact, this is good practice, since many existing applications reference argv[0] without first checking the value of argc.
10:19:31 <fizzie> lambdabot: Sorry, that wasn't for you, I forgot.
10:20:20 <Taneb> Is there any implementation that can cause a negative argc, I wonder
10:21:19 <int-e> ...pass 3 billion arguments to a program...
10:22:59 <fizzie> I would find it amusing if an implementation had a corner case where argc is negative, but it would still take care to ensure that argv[argc] is a null pointer.
10:23:13 <fizzie> (In any case, it wouldn't be a conforming C implementation.)
10:24:49 <int-e> shachaf: did you ever find a good gui library
10:29:48 <shachaf> int-e: For what context? I think probably not.
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15:38:52 <esowiki> [[Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83013&oldid=82988 * Sanscicondos * (+30) /* Alpha 1.3.5 */
15:39:49 <esowiki> [[Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83014&oldid=83013 * Sanscicondos * (+104) /* Alpha 1.3 */
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16:23:44 <esowiki> [[User talk:Sanscicondos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83015&oldid=82993 * Sanscicondos * (+288)
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16:28:05 <esowiki> [[User:Sanscicondos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83016&oldid=82992 * Sanscicondos * (+140)
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16:39:57 <esowiki> [[Talk:Don't]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83017 * Sanscicondos * (+655) hmmmm
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18:35:21 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:Cheese one.jpg]]": Copyright violation: "all rights reserved" on original source
18:37:20 <esowiki> [[User talk:Sanscicondos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83018&oldid=83015 * Ais523 * (+465) looks like the cheese picture was a copyright violation
18:46:24 <esowiki> [[Neat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83019 * HellishBro * (+1395) Neat
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18:55:22 <esowiki> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83020&oldid=82941 * HellishBro * (+11) /* N */
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19:27:56 <esowiki> [[User:Bangyen]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83021&oldid=83005 * Bangyen * (+134)
19:28:44 <fizzie> What, no Eurovision commentary going on?
19:28:51 <fizzie> I guess the semifinals don't count maybe.
19:29:01 <fizzie> Norway's in this one, I think.
19:29:29 <arseniiv> int-e: what do those pulsing rings in Recursed do?
19:30:12 <arseniiv> <fizzie> What, no Eurovision commentary going on? => didn’t even know it’s happening
19:30:26 <nakilon> I've lost interest after that woman with a beard
19:30:38 <nakilon> or whatever it was
19:31:47 <arseniiv> I think I almost never ever watched it more than a couple minutes for a time, which seems strange in some way
19:33:03 <arseniiv> first levels of Recursed seem pretty neato-easy but I believe when I start with progressing the ice palace DLC then it will be hard
19:33:38 <int-e> arseniiv: yes it starts out very easy
19:34:03 <nakilon> oh and after that beard woman there was a scandal that after nazi revolution in Ukraine in 2014 some people heard in "lasha tumbai" the "Russia goodbye" in Serdyuchka's song not even understanding that Serdyuchka hates nazis
19:34:21 <nakilon> so it's now looking rather about scandals than music I guess
19:35:48 <arseniiv> int-e: do you know what those rings do? If you take it and then drop it, it starts pulsing until you return from some other chest, it seems to indicate something but I think I haven’t read about that in a book at the start
19:36:21 <int-e> arseniiv: throw them and they'll play a message
19:36:53 <shachaf> bbbb,Recursed starts out too slow, definitely
19:37:14 <int-e> arseniiv: oh you said it's pulsing... if you don't have sound, turn on subtitles in the menu
19:37:17 <arseniiv> nakilon: some say it was for a long time about some behind-the-scene shenanigans, though I don’t care either way. At least hopefully some people have fun from all that
19:37:41 <arseniiv> int-e: aaah thank you!
19:38:36 <arseniiv> I thought about subtitles (I turned them on in minecraft even when I play with earphones on just for fun of it) but for some reason didn’t ended up enabling them
19:40:08 <arseniiv> the slow start makes me believe my not-puzzle-gaming friend will get a confidence about her skills though
19:44:46 <arseniiv> . o O ( the early Eurovision sequence: ABBACCCABBADDDDABBA… )
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19:44:59 <nakilon> lol
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20:24:27 <esowiki> [[Eek!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83022 * Zero player rodent * (+2641) Created page with "'''Eek!''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] that only uses the characters "E", "e", and "k". == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Outcome |- | E || Move..."
20:24:58 <int-e> shachaf: I kind of disagree... yes the initial levels are easy, but the test I'd apply is whether the game repeats itself early on (in the extreme making a dozen levels all based around the same idea)... and I don't think it does.
20:25:02 <esowiki> [[User:Zero player rodent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83023&oldid=82620 * Zero player rodent * (+12)
20:25:38 <int-e> also the rings did a lot for me to stave off boredom
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21:06:45 <esowiki> [[Nya~]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=83024 * Sech1p * (+2127) Initial :eyes:
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21:57:26 <arseniiv> hit the harder ones but didn’t reach cauldrons and jars yet
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21:59:13 <int-e> hmm, dungeon, or ruins?
22:01:36 <int-e> (sets are: 1st woodland, introduces chests, keys, blocks, and doors; 2nd, sewers, introduces water; 3rd, dungeon, introduces green things; 4th, ruins, introduces red water)
22:04:42 <esowiki> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AdamJ * New user account
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22:06:39 <esowiki> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=83025&oldid=83012 * AdamJ * (+123) /* Introductions */
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←2021-05-17 2021-05-18 2021-05-19→ ↑2021 ↑all