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00:14:12 <Hooloovoo> why does Why Does This Towel Smell Different Each Time I Use It not involve towels?
00:16:07 <oerjan> i guess the author lost them. not a very hoopy frood if you ask me.
00:20:38 <b_jonas> threw it away after they never washed it
00:24:03 <nakilon> that's almost like b_jonas fixes teapots ..)
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00:30:16 <b_jonas> I will not buy this fungot, it is scratched
00:30:16 <fungot> b_jonas: brainsecks interpreter works :d. sorry. :( i know many people on scheme are you using
00:41:58 <esolangs> [[9f87m4atttaaaou;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87273&oldid=87251 * CosmicMan08 * (-8)
00:46:18 <esolangs> [[GridJSON]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87274&oldid=84895 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* Commands */ Cat
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00:49:52 <esolangs> [[Typeform]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87275&oldid=83933 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+8) WIP
01:12:52 <esolangs> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87276&oldid=87086 * Zzo38 * (+2396) ZZT/MegaZeux
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01:36:46 <int-e> oerjan: come on, pointless jokes are tame
01:38:32 <int-e> oerjan: There's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointless_topology and it's not! a redirect.
01:38:42 <int-e> oerjan: Which is in the same spirit.
01:40:52 <oerjan> it is however horrible grammar :(
01:42:38 <oerjan> the article introduction, that is.
01:43:43 <oerjan> seems like it was expanded recently
01:53:59 <oerjan> mind you, it's still not _well_ written. but i'm lazy and i don't know the subject.
01:55:50 <int-e> oerjan: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/themframes.png <-- this one is totally worthy of a swat, btw, so let's call it even
01:57:18 <shachaf> So even a category skeptic would presumably acknowledge the following:
01:57:41 <shachaf> Even though every complete semilattice is a complete lattice, a free complete semilattice is a very different thing from a free complete lattice.
01:57:56 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87277&oldid=87252 * Ch44d * (+8945) add some rules
01:58:57 <oerjan> that's just how freedom works
02:02:19 <int-e> That framing though... are you suggesting that nothing is free without category theory? ;-)
02:04:11 <shachaf> No, just that this has a bit of a categorical flavor.
02:04:48 <int-e> Then again, maybe I shouldn't complain about framing after that "them frames" thing.
02:05:03 * int-e switches out the shovel for an excavator.
02:05:10 <shachaf> Should people even talk about frames?
02:05:13 <shachaf> I thought locales are where it's at.
02:05:26 <int-e> Kripke talked a lot about frames.
02:06:19 <int-e> Frames were also a good way to crash browsers... I wonder whether that's still the case.
02:07:00 <int-e> And FWIW, I'd rather have a window with frame than without.
02:07:18 <int-e> (Both physically and on a computer.)
02:07:31 <int-e> ...tThere's really a lot of things that are called frames...
02:07:49 <shachaf> I do think the categorical definition of "free" is pretty good.
02:08:13 <shachaf> I don't even know what other definition people use. I guess just one that works for algebraic structures?
02:08:31 <int-e> But then what did I learn the Knaster-Tarski fixed point theorem for?
02:13:50 * oerjan still has no idea about what's wrong with "them frames"
02:14:36 <oerjan> is it some meme i haven't caught
02:15:25 <int-e> oerjan: them frames have been naughty
02:16:12 <int-e> maybe it's just my own brain that chuckles at "them frames" without context. it happens. a lot.
02:18:09 <int-e> In context, it's perfectly fine. There's even punctuation that makes all this inapplicable.
02:18:52 <int-e> Hmm. Not sure "punctuation" is the right word to use for quotes.
02:41:56 <nakilon> wow, found someone who edits Wikipedia
02:43:07 <keegan> I used to live at a house named Pointless Topology
02:43:15 <keegan> in fact it had an IRC channel on Freenode (RIP)
02:43:33 <keegan> and there was a bot in the IRC channel that would control the color of the LED lights in the living room
02:44:41 <keegan> yes, it's pretty common in American nerd culture for group houses (with several housemates who are not related living together) to have a name
02:45:04 <int-e> Who wouldn't want to live inside Pointless Topology
02:45:15 <int-e> Where you can blend in with the crowd perfectly.
02:47:52 <nakilon> it's like something from a movie
02:48:45 <nakilon> in Russia you probably won't even meet any group of nerds ever in your life
02:57:02 <keegan> don't they have technical schools and internet companies and hackerspaces in russia?
02:57:13 <keegan> that's how these groups of nerds meet each other
02:59:15 <keegan> and san francisco is not exactly affordable, even on a tech salary (especially if you're early in your career)
02:59:17 <esolangs> [[Minim]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87278&oldid=87215 * KakkoiiChris * (-158) /* System Arg (\<) */ Fixed typo
02:59:32 <keegan> so you can get a small apartment by yourself, or you can rent a big house with some friends and have a nice common area and maybe even a backyard
03:00:39 <keegan> and a lot of people prefer to live with people
03:01:24 <keegan> some of them are just housing, some are more like live-in hackerspaces or event spaces or communes
03:01:40 <nakilon> keegan the only such community I'm aware about is very small one with old guys who do demoscenes for 8 bit computers
03:02:13 <nakilon> maybe there are some in rare universities like MSU, just a theory
03:02:46 <keegan> it may be less common in the former USSR because the soviet union built a ton of apartment housing
03:03:02 <keegan> the USA thinks everyone should live in a single family detached home with a yard
03:03:07 <keegan> even in san francisco most of the city is not zoned for apartments
03:03:20 <keegan> but obviously single people who can't afford a whole house want to live here, so they split a house
03:03:30 <nakilon> basically people gather or rent a house collectively only if they are drug addicts ..D
03:04:39 <keegan> yeah some people in SF even live hostel-style with multiple bunk beds in a single room
03:04:47 <nakilon> the house/amartment is just a matter of town size -- the apartments appear only if the town is big enough, it's never a majority of homes
03:05:03 <nakilon> maybe the difference is that we didn't have hippies
03:06:41 <nakilon> single houses are basically never shared -- they are the family thing, inherited all at once
03:07:13 <keegan> the professional class in the USA (including programmers) tends to move far away from where they grew up for school and work
03:07:19 <keegan> so inheriting a house is not necessarily an option
03:07:43 <nakilon> there are hostels with bunk beds but only in Moscow and such -- for immigrants from poor countries who work here cleaning streets
03:09:04 <keegan> yeah here it's like... immigrants from middle america who are trying to get lucky in the startup game
03:14:25 <nakilon> speaking about "IRC controlled LED lights", in the biggest and nerdiest (except of probably Kaspersky) company Yandex no one used or even knew what is IRC -- there was one internal server that no one used; we were using some different chat platform and it was awful, so previous admin gave me the server and I tried to drag my coworkers there; set up
03:14:25 <nakilon> Jenkins notification, reports, etc., but they didn't use it ..D
03:15:40 <nakilon> there was no such thing as "build platform with notifications" at all at that time AFAIK, it was before Slack, and people knew only a few ways to chat -- ICQ, Skype and rarely Jabber; and no one automated them
03:17:06 <nakilon> basically we only used email and "go to his working place and ask him directly"
03:19:47 <nakilon> for most of Russian IT companies it's only when Slack and such appeared and started pushing advertisment of their features they discovered such things as automated notifications and bots at all
03:21:37 <nakilon> not even saying about making such automations, only installing some IFFFT integrations or existing plugins, heh
03:22:14 <nakilon> if you automate anything you before a "nerd" within an IT company
03:22:23 <nakilon> anyway, time for breakfast
03:22:53 <keegan> i have a hard time understanding the idea that being a nerd would be looked down upon within an IT company
03:23:12 <keegan> at least among the developers
03:30:10 <nakilon> at all jobs I had there was only once a guy that is kind of nerd, at least he's into Haskell -- learning things that you wasn't told to learn is basically a shame here
03:30:39 <nakilon> his job is Python but he codes Haskell at home and does not talk to anyone about that
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03:37:11 <nakilon> also the thing about dinners
03:38:53 <nakilon> at one job our boss on purpose tried to initiate some coding-related topics during the dinner meetings; elsewhere you are supposed to only talk about sort championships and how you'll rest from the job on a vacation
03:41:08 <nakilon> so at the dinner you talk trash, at the office you talk only about the current tickets in Jira, and there is no time to talk about programming other than that -- after 18:00 people hurry to get home and don't wanna listen about code "because tired, don't wanna think"
03:46:15 <keegan> it's sad that learning things you don't immediately need is stigmatized
03:46:22 <keegan> although i think work life separation is healthy
03:46:49 <keegan> and i don't think one needs to be a programming obsessive like i used to be to be a good programmer at work
03:46:52 <keegan> in fact it may detract
03:47:04 <keegan> because i was always sad that the things i was asked to do at work were not as interesting
03:47:11 <keegan> and that i couldn't use the coolest language or whatever
03:48:25 <keegan> now that i've been unemployed for years I'm slowly regaining the ability to enjoy programming in my free time
03:48:26 <nakilon> idk, at that job others were asking haskell guy how to write in python because he was the one who wasn't lazy to learn things about its better practices, new features, etc.
03:49:36 <nakilon> and you can't learn new things by just doing jira tickets
03:50:49 <nakilon> how do you survive being unemployed?
03:51:05 <keegan> my wife works at google
03:51:16 <nakilon> I'm without job for a year and did a mistake to gave a part of my money and no I'm in debts, it sucks
03:53:06 <keegan> we are having a kid soon and i will be a full time mom
03:53:17 <keegan> which of course doesn't pay anything but does save a lot of money in childcare costs etc
03:53:24 <keegan> and probably has other benefits to the child
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07:03:40 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87280&oldid=87279 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+86) /* Hello World */
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07:05:00 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87281&oldid=87280 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+78) /* \ELLOWOS */
07:07:33 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87282&oldid=87281 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+38)
07:09:14 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87283&oldid=87282 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+4)
07:11:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87284&oldid=87254 * Red hot dogs--- * (+219)
07:13:31 <esolangs> [[Pyfun]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87285 * Red hot dogs--- * (+5341) Created page with "Pyfun is a programming language in which only the following five characters are allowed a [ ] + < Pyfun is designed such that it can be easily converted into python. To co..."
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07:30:06 <esolangs> [[Pyfun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87287&oldid=87285 * Red hot dogs--- * (+204)
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07:34:06 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87289&oldid=87286 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+0)
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07:39:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87291&oldid=87290 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-1) /* Duplicate command */
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08:27:57 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87293&oldid=87292 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+18)
09:05:37 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87294&oldid=87293 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+170) /* Programs */
09:06:16 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87295&oldid=87294 * GermanSpetsnaz * (-52) /* User Input */
09:06:57 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87296&oldid=87295 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+52) /* No User Input */
09:10:57 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87297&oldid=87296 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+91) /* Fibonacci Sequence */
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09:44:52 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87298&oldid=87277 * Ch44d * (+26565) add the other rules
09:49:49 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87299&oldid=87264 * Ch44d * (+16) add backrooms
10:36:16 <esolangs> [[Pyfun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87300&oldid=87288 * Red hot dogs--- * (-164)
10:44:35 <esolangs> [[Pyfun]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87301&oldid=87300 * Red hot dogs--- * (+194)
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11:55:19 <b_jonas> fungot, how many different prizes are there that are considered "the Nobel prize of mathematics"?
11:55:19 <fungot> b_jonas: if common-lisp.net starts accepting requests from all and sundry here?) form is a procedure
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13:35:02 <esolangs> [[Backrooms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87303&oldid=87298 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14) Lower
13:39:01 <esolangs> [[Math&Matrix]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87304&oldid=76377 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* Matrix form */ cat
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17:02:42 <esolangs> [[Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87306&oldid=86508 * Sanscicondos * (+88) Added Categories
17:03:31 <esolangs> [[Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87307&oldid=87306 * Sanscicondos * (+0) minor spelling change
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17:15:09 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87308&oldid=86186 * Sanscicondos * (+598) Added - Dedicated Program Creation Modes
17:16:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cheese]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87309&oldid=87308 * Sanscicondos * (+181) signatureee
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17:19:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87310&oldid=87309 * Sanscicondos * (+2) Updated Version - 1.3.5a
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17:36:20 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87311&oldid=87284 * Daggy1234 * (+253) /* Introductions */
17:36:29 <esolangs> [[Udymts]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87312 * Daggy1234 * (+1526) Enhance your python with this wonderful esolang that ceaser chiper's your code.l
17:39:58 <esolangs> [[Udymts]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87313&oldid=87312 * Daggy1234 * (+102) added commands
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18:30:06 <riv> > What if they just do the thing similar to how you can change the skin color of emojis but instead of skin color it's Islamic republic or Islamic emirate
18:30:08 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:77: error: parse error on input ‘of’
18:30:17 <riv> great idea, this would work with taipei and other controversials as well
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19:53:26 <riv> is currency a compressible fluid? is it non-newtonian?
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20:01:09 <esolangs> [[\ELLOWOS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87316&oldid=87315 * GermanSpetsnaz * (+91) /* Memory */
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20:50:08 <riv> https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4226074/barriers-membranes-in-conways-game-of-life
20:50:11 <riv> that's an interesting question
20:50:51 <riv> my guess is no.. everything in GOL is 'flammable'
20:56:07 <Hooloovoo> the answer is no, not at least not last I checked a couple years ago
20:56:31 <Hooloovoo> cgol is just, as you said, very reactive.
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21:05:24 <keegan> yeah it would need some kind of self repair capability
21:05:28 <keegan> and would probably be quite large
21:05:45 <keegan> but that should be doable in principle due to universality
21:06:46 <keegan> of course you can also simulate another CA in GoL which is like GoL except for allowing some cells to be designated immutable
21:06:56 <riv> im not sure what universality implies that
21:07:15 <riv> yeah you could do that
21:08:17 <riv> hm what if it's just gliders you need to deal with. I think it's still probably impossible because they could come at any time and any place
21:09:12 <Hooloovoo> I'm not sure that really helps - unless the universal machine can detect damage to its borders, which brings up another long-open question, basically whether it's possible to scan a still-life
21:10:07 <keegan> without disrupting it you mean?
21:10:11 <Hooloovoo> it *should* be possible to make a machine that can protect against solo gliders at a sufficiently slow speed
21:13:56 <Hooloovoo> https://www.conwaylife.com/wiki/Problem is an incomplete list of problems. I don't see anything exactly like this one, but I do recall some discussion of it
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22:06:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:Kefalonia]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87336 * Kefalonia * (+0) Created blank page
22:10:50 <esolangs> [[User talk:Apollyon094]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87337&oldid=69845 * Kefalonia * (+142) SBNs...
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23:21:45 <b_jonas> if I have n mostly independent changes to a code, and I suspect there's a bug that comes up when two specific ones are both merged, while the other n-2 are irrelevant, but I don't know which two, then what's a practical fast way to bisect which two those are assuming I can test any combination?
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23:53:12 <oerjan> b_jonas: i think you can just put them in an arbitrary order, bisect as usual to find the last relevant one, then keep that fixed and bisect the others
23:54:09 <oerjan> *the others previous to it
23:55:11 <oerjan> and i suspect that's pretty close to optimal too, given you need log(n*(n-1)/2) bits to tell which two it is