01:26:36 <fizzie> Bah. I think there's no way to tell the certbot-dns-rfc2136 plugin that it should attempt to do an RFC 2136 update to some *other* domain name, under the assumption it's been CNAME'd to a different domain. :/ I could probably script it on top of a manual auth hook and nsupdate, but :effort:
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02:14:15 <nakilon> "I don't use an OS X so I can't really help in that" -- I just inform that that command isn't compatible
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05:50:33 <velik> (alt: 'Linux kernel') Family of Unix-like operating systems
05:50:40 <velik> Free and open-source Unix-like operating system kernel
05:51:54 <velik> AVX-512 are 512-bit extensions to the 256-bit Advanced Vector Extensions SIMD instructions for x86 instruction set architecture (ISA) proposed by Intel in July 2013, and implemented in Intel's Xeon Phi x200 (Knights Landing) and Skylake-X CPUs; this includes the Core-X series (excluding the Core i5-7640X and Core i7-7740X), as well as the new Xeon Scalable Processor Family and Xeon D-2100 Embedded Series.[LF]
05:52:31 <nakilon> oh I'll append the ' ' to output
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06:29:24 <esolangs> [[Velik]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87940&oldid=87683 * Nakilon * (+472) added examples of \wiki command
06:32:29 <nakilon> badly formatted one I guess
06:43:40 <velik> Befunge is a two-dimensional stack-based, reflective, esoteric programming language. It differs from conventional languages in that programs are arranged on a two-dimensional grid. "Arrow" instructions direct the control flow to the left, right, up or down, and loops are constructed by sending the control flow in a cycle. It has been described as "a cross between Forth and Lemmings".[LF]
06:44:19 <nakilon> fixed the page, "programming language" Infobox was broken
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10:44:59 <esolangs> [[HeLiiLii]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87941 * Magnogen * (+2431) Created page with "==About HeLiiLii== [['''HeLiiLii''']] (pronounced heh-lee-lee) is an [[esoteric programming language]] designed by [[User:Magnogen]] in 2021, although the idea behind it was..."
11:20:58 <esolangs> [[HeLiiLii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87942&oldid=87941 * Magnogen * (+1438)
11:27:48 <esolangs> [[HeLiiLii]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87943&oldid=87942 * Magnogen * (+25) full name pog
11:30:12 <esolangs> [[HeLiiLii]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87944&oldid=87943 * Magnogen * (+14) heliilii
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12:44:00 <nakilon> found that Wikidata has better summaries; code even became shorter
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12:48:27 <velik> AVX-512 -- Instruction set extension developed by Intel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVX-512
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12:51:27 <velik> Befunge -- esoteric, 2-dimensional programming language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befunge
12:51:41 <oerjan> i seem to have read that wikipedia used the wikidata summaries at one point but then changed their policy not to
13:07:23 <nakilon> unfortunately such articles like befunge and avx don't have {short description} so those large outputs were the results of the whole first paragraph text parsing; switching to wikidata avoids these spontaneous big replies; I hope wikidata has summary for everything, we'll see
13:08:05 <nakilon> if not, I'll reattach the first paragraph parsing as a fallback
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13:26:00 <nakilon> though I can adapt that parsing to a... \esowiki
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13:39:32 <esolangs> [[Velik]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87945&oldid=87940 * Nakilon * (+434) added \esowiki
13:40:31 <nakilon> b_jonas I just spotted you wrote "commands starting with a backspace..." https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Velik&diff=prev&oldid=85671
13:40:48 <velik> Befunge is a two-dimensional esoteric programming language invented in 1993 by Chris Pressey with the goal of being as difficult to compile as possible. Code is laid out on a two-dimensional grid of instructions, and execution can proceed in any direction of that grid. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge
13:43:20 <nakilon> I suppose weird "Note" at the top of [wiki brainfuck] isn't a usual wikimedia Template that the parsing gem is used to, so it thinks it's the actual first paragraph (
13:43:23 <velik> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck/w/index.php%3Ftitle=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php
13:45:38 <nakilon> this is weird: 1. https://i.imgur.com/zLkVuWF.png 2. https://i.imgur.com/X0poLvz.png
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13:55:54 <esolangs> [[User:Nakilon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87946&oldid=83634 * Nakilon * (-25) can't be found on freenode
13:59:53 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87947 * Dominicentek * (+3102) Created page with "JSInstruction is an esoteric programming language written by [User:Dominicentek]. The language has only one built in instruction and you can add more by including JavaScript c..."
14:01:10 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87948&oldid=87947 * Dominicentek * (-5)
14:02:24 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87949&oldid=87948 * Dominicentek * (+42)
14:02:42 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87950&oldid=87949 * Dominicentek * (+4)
14:03:12 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87951&oldid=87865 * Dominicentek * (+20) /* J */
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14:03:30 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87952&oldid=87950 * Dominicentek * (+2)
14:03:45 <fizzie> TBH I think unqualified "wiki" on this channel should mean our own one, not WikiPedia.
14:04:19 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87953&oldid=87952 * Dominicentek * (-1)
14:05:22 <nakilon> what would be the command for wikipedia then? \wikipedia? \wp?
14:07:27 <hanif> why don't you use [[...]] for inline links instead of [wiki ...]? i guess you can then make your bot ignore the esolangs bot
14:07:55 <hanif> nakilon: "wp"'s pretty unambigious imo, so both'd work
14:09:31 <fizzie> I use "wp" as my personal search keyword, but that's just me.
14:11:04 <hanif> or even just 'w' which i think is how other wikimedia sites link to wikipedia (also ddg uses the !w bang for searching wikipedia)
14:11:36 <fizzie> And yeah, "Brainfuck/w/index.php?title=Talk:Brainfuck/index.php" is a different language than "Brainfuck", but it's unfortunate if that comes up as the best match there.
14:12:11 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87954&oldid=87179 * Dominicentek * (+39)
14:12:22 <esolangs> [[User:Dominicentek]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87955&oldid=87954 * Dominicentek * (+4)
14:12:42 <nakilon> oh I didn't even realise that's a language
14:16:07 <fizzie> I feel like it's in the same category of silly names as "Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download" and "Esolang talk:Klat gnalosE".
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14:22:25 <Sgeo> If I have a matrix multiplication A*B, I know I can interpret that as A transforming B. Is there any way to interpret it as B taking some action of rotation + translation on A? Maybe in a different order? (If it's a translate-rotate matrix)
14:24:15 <oerjan> Sgeo: transposition reverses multiplication
14:24:32 <Sgeo> But then the resulting matrix is transposed
14:25:40 <Corbin> Then transpose again. Another way to put this is that the category of matrices is self-dual.
14:26:20 <Corbin> (That's the category whose objects are the natural numbers and arrows are matrices; composition is matrix multiplication, and the opposite category just transposes everything.)
14:28:31 <oerjan> you can think of applying (A*B)^t to a vector as applying the _transpose_ of that vector on the left of A*B
14:28:54 <oerjan> (a vector being seen as an n by 1 matrix)
14:29:49 <oerjan> that is, ((A*B)^t*v) = (v^t*A*B)^t
14:31:18 <Sgeo> glh::matrix4f newCameraMatrix = slCameraMatrix * m_mat4HMDPose * eyeLocation;
14:31:51 <Sgeo> Are there translations/rotations that could be done to slCameraMatrix that would be equivalent to that? (knowing m_mat4HMDPose and eyeLocation are translation/rotation matrices)
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14:32:39 <esolangs> [[Meow]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=87956 * Martsadas * (+1603) Created page with "[[Meow]] is a joke esolang created by [[User:Martsadas]] that has 2 registers that can store integers<br> <br> === Instructions: === {| class="wikitable" ! Instruction !! What..."
14:33:00 <esolangs> [[User:Martsadas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87957&oldid=87787 * Martsadas * (+11) Meow
14:35:47 <oerjan> Sgeo: if all the matrices are invertible, A*B=C*A implies C=A*B*A^-1. that is going to depend on A.
14:36:14 <oerjan> if not all of the matrices are invertible, there might not be solution, or it might not be unique.
14:38:16 <oerjan> s/all the matrices/A and B/, you get C for free.
14:38:44 <Corbin> The notes at https://www.khronos.org/registry/OpenGL-Refpages/gl2.1/xhtml/gluLookAt.xml might be helpful in this particular case, too.
14:38:54 <Sgeo> Hmm. A*B*C = D*E*A
14:38:55 <Sgeo> would let some of the operations occur in a different order
14:40:30 <oerjan> Sgeo: that's not really going to help because what i said about C before now applies to M=D*E
14:46:49 <hanif> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Evil+Numbers some familiar names
14:49:36 <oerjan> yeah we played around with that here back in ... 2015, according to the date beside my name
14:50:28 <oerjan> i see henkma is no longer the unbeaten haskell champion
14:51:27 <oerjan> well seems lynn is now. she used to be a regular here.
14:53:20 <oerjan> (or well, "here" that used to be on freenode)
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14:58:23 <velik> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Velik
14:58:29 <velik> velik is an IRC bot maintained by User:Nakilon. It was created in 2021-05. It is resident on the libera/#esolangs channel. It can execute RASEL language code and also responds to some other commands (use \help to see all of them). https://esolangs.org/wiki/Velik
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15:03:49 <nakilon> how do I escape [ and ] in code block?
15:04:56 <velik> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Foobar%20and%20Foobaz%20and%20Barbaz,%20oh%20my!
15:08:58 <nakilon> weird this issue does not happen on pages with bf code with double brackets
15:13:31 <esolangs> [[Velik]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87958&oldid=87945 * Nakilon * (+1) \wiki -> \wp, \esowiki -> \wiki, [wiki ...] -> [[...]]]
15:15:43 <velik> Jelly is a golfing language by Dennis Mitchell inspired by the J programming language. It has a free online compiler on Try It Online. It comes with its own character set (of 256 characters) and character encoding, apparently unrelated to any previous encodings. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Jelly
15:17:36 <nakilon> I'm not really sure why it ignores esolangs, I didn't implemented it yet
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15:23:09 <nakilon> it had to be triggered twice here :esolangs!~esolangs@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :\u000314[[\u000307Velik\u000314]]\u00034 \u000310 \u000302https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87958&oldid=87945\u0003 \u00035*\u0003 \u000303Nakilon\u0003 \u00035*\u0003 (+1) \u000310\\wiki -> \\wp, \\esowiki -> \\wiki, [wiki ...] -> [[...]]]\u0003
15:25:21 <nakilon> ok, I guess the gem that is used here just can't handle ... nor those characters
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15:34:58 <nakilon> or rather those queries just return nothing in wiki search
15:36:12 <Sgeo> I... think I got confused because applying rotation B after A should be.... A*B? To get a model matrix?
15:36:28 <Sgeo> I was thinking it would be B*A, but... ugh
15:46:28 <esolangs> [[Meow]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87959&oldid=87956 * Martsadas * (+867) fixed 99 bottles of beer and added fizzbuzz and factorial and cat program
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16:06:00 <hanif> oerjan | well seems lynn is now. she used to be a regular here. => ah didn't know that
16:07:10 <hanif> oerjan: i don't know if you already know, but henkma released their golfs recently https://github.com/henkma/HaskellGolfSpoiler
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16:39:38 <Corbin> Is there a way to indicate that a language should have an article, besides redlinking? In particular, is there a page of desired articles?
16:42:59 <nakilon> I miss the times when wikipedia was all red
16:48:24 <oerjan> there is the automatic https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:WantedPages
16:48:33 <oerjan> (based on number of red links)
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16:51:44 <velik> https://esolangs.org/wiki/List%20of%20ideas
16:52:11 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87960&oldid=87953 * Dominicentek * (+4)
16:52:26 <nakilon> no one used this command, two people said to change the syntax to [[]], so I changed and now you used the old one ..D
16:52:52 <oerjan> ...update in progress...
16:55:15 <hanif> nakilon: what does '..D' mean? i've only ever seen it used by you
16:55:28 <hanif> perhaps equivalent to ':D'?
16:55:48 <Corbin> What do we call classical computers on the wiki? I'm talking about machines whose complexity class is P.
16:56:25 <nakilon> hanif yes, those are my smiles
16:56:34 <keegan> that statement doesn't quite make sense
16:56:44 <keegan> P is the class of problems decidable by a deterministic Turing machine in polynomial time
16:56:58 <keegan> it's not really a class of machines
16:57:06 <nakilon> ..P ..) ,.) you see, it's handy since I also can do with another eye .,) or both ,,)
16:57:21 <keegan> it's a class of decision problems
16:59:41 <b_jonas> Corbin: for indicating that the language should have an article: sometimes I just make a stub article; sometimes I mention the language on my user talk page under "TODO"
17:03:11 <Corbin> keegan: Do you get what I mean, though?
17:03:38 <keegan> "deterministic Turing machine" is a class of machines
17:03:58 <keegan> so is "nondeterministic Turing machine"
17:04:09 <Corbin> Okay, lemme try again. What do we call the computers that aren't quantum computers, aren't time-travelling computers, aren't magically able to index exponential amounts of memory with constant-time access, don't have a way to talk to Merlin, etc.
17:04:32 <keegan> probably "classical computers" or "deterministic Turing machines" or just "Turing machines"
17:04:36 <Corbin> (Sorry, I would *love* to have an argument about complexity classes and jargon, but I feel like I'm being BS'd here.)
17:04:52 <keegan> but i'm not a wiki editor
17:05:00 <Corbin> Turing machines have non-trivial differences in behavior depending on the number of tapes. That's why I'm looking for a better term.
17:05:03 <keegan> i mean... I have edited the wiki
17:05:16 <keegan> really? I thought you could simulate any number of tapes on one tape
17:05:43 <keegan> any fixed number that is
17:06:13 <Corbin> But how long does it take to run the simulaton?
17:06:43 <Corbin> P is self-low, which means that a P machine can run a P machine as an oracle-like subroutine without leaving P. That's the sense in which a machine-oriented definition makes sense.
17:07:22 <Corbin> As a concrete demonstration, the redlinked language Pola is complete for P, which means that its abstract machine and type theory are also complete: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266217730_Pola_a_language_for_PTIME_programming
17:08:14 <Corbin> Folklore is that simulating two tapes on one tape breaks this self-low property.
17:10:16 <Corbin> keegan: A more pressing concern is that Turing machines don't distinguish P and NP easily, which makes cryptography analytically invisible. Aaronson has a paper demolishing the viewpoint: https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0502072
17:10:48 <Corbin> (This paper's mostly meant to dispel the hope that NP-complete machines are trivially physical, but in the process, it establishes a sense of classical computing so that P, BQP, and NP are contrasted.)
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17:26:04 <oerjan> . o O ( NP /\ coNP is also self-low, i think )
17:27:21 <Corbin> oerjan: Yeah. Indeed I think AP is self-low? Having trouble imagining an AP program which would refute that.
17:27:35 <oerjan> . o O ( why did i add "i think" inside a thought bubble )
17:27:42 <Corbin> *AP problem, even~ I'll try to be more precise, sorry.
17:27:59 <int-e> . o O ( at least you didn't . o O ( think ) )
17:29:09 <int-e> . o O ( ouch ) O o . hmm.
17:29:17 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87961&oldid=87960 * Dominicentek * (-26)
17:35:02 <oerjan> oh hm apparently AP = PSPACE which i am pretty sure is self-low.
17:36:13 <oerjan> although is self-lowness automatically preserved by such equations...
17:37:56 <hanif> [[w:Low (complexity)]]
17:37:57 <velik> https://esolangs.org/wiki/1+
17:38:24 <Corbin> In the non-relativizing world, yes. Self-lowness doesn't relativize, which is kind of weird but also very nice because it gives us extreme confidence that e.g. P != PSPACE. (Also note that Time Hierarchy says that P != EXP, so this is expected.)
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17:58:34 <spruit11> way cool. have to show. dynamic dispatch in my language: https://github.com/egel-lang/egel/blob/master/examples/dispatch.eg
18:00:07 <esolangs> [[Swapfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87962&oldid=86645 * Rdococ * (-121) /* Computational class */
18:00:59 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87963&oldid=87266 * Corbin * (+2775) /* Abstract algebraic languages */ new section
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18:16:11 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87964&oldid=87961 * Dominicentek * (+8)
18:17:51 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87965&oldid=87964 * Dominicentek * (+6)
18:26:49 <b_jonas> my stupid script only accepts lower case roman numerals. maybe I should fix that
18:27:00 <perlbot> b_jonas: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [frameworks] [french] [freenode] [frinkbot] [framesready] [freenode ops] [form] [fireme] [format] [forums]
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18:56:17 <HackEso> [U+216D ROMAN NUMERAL ONE HUNDRED] [U+2160 ROMAN NUMERAL ONE]
18:58:03 <fizzie> Heh, there are dedicated combinations for each integer up to Ⅻ, presumably due to the clock thing.
18:58:23 <HackEso> [U+2188 ROMAN NUMERAL ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND]
18:58:44 <fizzie> It's Ⅳ here, but maybe there's a quadruple-Ⅰ somewhere too.
18:58:52 <fizzie> Not in the same block though.
18:59:34 <b_jonas> fizzie: fromroman won't decode those because it originates form a golf I wrote for a golf competitions
19:00:16 <HackEso> [U+2185 ROMAN NUMERAL SIX LATE FORM] [U+2186 ROMAN NUMERAL FIFTY EARLY FORM]
19:04:54 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87966&oldid=87965 * Dominicentek * (-26)
19:07:02 <arseniiv> do you like an abbreviation TLWTNT (this is a legit word, totally not a typo)?
19:09:58 <arseniiv> canonically (as decided by me while no others yet have adopted) this is used to mark a typo that you’ve just got an insight should be treated as is for greater good
19:09:58 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87967&oldid=87966 * Dominicentek * (+47)
19:11:18 <esolangs> [[JSInstruction]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=87968&oldid=87967 * Dominicentek * (+0)
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22:27:09 <int-e> fungot: what's the analogue of hill-climbing for minimization?
22:27:10 <fungot> int-e: ( 0,0,0) (3)+ ( 0,0,1) fnord ( x 3) worked the same way?
22:27:37 <int-e> fungot: "I don't know" was an acceptable answer.
22:27:37 <fungot> int-e: it has a line length limit, became regular, right? not a good definition
22:29:42 <fizzie> int-e: Valley-tumbling hth.
22:30:29 <fizzie> Funny how for that one specific method, you can do gradient ascent and descent both, but in the general case you're always climbing up that hill.
22:31:46 <fizzie> That's not the same though.
22:32:03 <int-e> I used "hill-climbing", trusting the reader to take the dual view.
22:32:16 <int-e> b_jonas: Not applicable, I have a discrete problem.
22:32:40 <b_jonas> how about just local minimization?
22:32:42 <fizzie> If you want the serious answer, I think "climbing" is used for optimization in general, yes.
22:32:47 <b_jonas> yeah, I know it's not the same
22:33:06 <int-e> yeah, valley tumbling is cute :)
22:34:29 <fizzie> When hill-climbing for minimization, I think you're just supposed to think of the height as measuring general solution gooditude, not specifically the value of it.
22:36:30 <int-e> fizzie: I have no real qualms about using the term
22:37:07 <int-e> But I was curious whether there was an established term for it that I had somehow missed.
22:37:10 <b_jonas> so how about "valley climbing"?
22:37:38 <int-e> that... sounds wrong, somehow
22:37:52 <int-e> (down into the abysss?)
22:38:53 <b_jonas> abyss climbing? ravine climbing? canyon climbing?
22:39:08 <b_jonas> nah, I think just valley climbing
22:47:14 <fizzie> There was an absurdist joke in a Finnish radio program once about Veikko Gustafsson, the lesser-known brother of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veikka_Gustafsson , a "flat land climber". But I don't remember the details well enough to do justice to it. Something about having a base camp in a ditch next to a field.
22:55:43 <int-e> I'm reminded of this https://fr-fr.topographic-map.com/maps/zi6c/Volkspark-Prenzlauer-Berg/ ("Berg" = "mountain")
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23:07:08 <fizzie> int-e: Well, you know, "vuori" = "mountain" too, and we've got https://zem.fi/tmp/monk-mountain.png
23:12:13 <fizzie> There's also a "red mountain" in the city centre that I think might be even a little flatter, that's where I grew up.
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