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00:34:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mujk * New user account
00:41:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106022&oldid=106013 * Mujk * (+96) /* Introductions */
01:01:38 <esolangs> [[User:Mujk]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106023 * Mujk * (+160) Created page with "Hi == my languages == * [[trainfck]] == my interpreters and compilers == * [https://github.com/Mujk/trainfck trainfck] -> a trainfck interpreter written in Go"
01:10:15 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106024 * Mujk * (+1531) Created page with "Trainfck is a language designed by [[User:Mujk|Mujk]]. It's a concurrent, brainfuck inspired esoteric programming language with trains. == language == Trainfck is an esoteric programming language using a 2D map where trains run on rails. Trains depart from stations (+) a
01:10:35 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106025&oldid=106024 * Mujk * (+8) /* language */
01:12:01 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106026&oldid=106025 * Mujk * (+108) /* language */
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01:23:11 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106027&oldid=106026 * Mujk * (+38) /* language */
01:27:45 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106028&oldid=106027 * Mujk * (-2) /* language */
01:30:44 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106029&oldid=106028 * Mujk * (+8) /* operators */
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01:52:06 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106030&oldid=105981 * Mujk * (+15) /* T */
02:40:17 <esolangs> [[Cipher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106031&oldid=100179 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+162) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Cipher programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
02:43:03 <esolangs> [[Cipher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106032&oldid=106031 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+0) Modified the 87 command's effect to calculate the quotient b/a, as the original operation b/1 appears erroneous.
02:44:35 <esolangs> [[Cipher]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106033&oldid=106032 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+342) Added an examples section with two initial members, the first demonstrating an addition, the second realizing a countdown from 4 to 1.
02:47:01 <esolangs> [[Cipher]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106034&oldid=106033 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1) Rectified the Common Lisp interpreter description, having lapsed by retaining the nominal Muppp reference from the provenance of its copying.
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03:37:25 <zzo38> How can I check that a .gitattributes file is correct if it is not in a git repository?
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04:09:22 <esolangs> [[Miscmisc2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106035&oldid=105191 * Transoptimal * (+5) Fix mistake in hello world example
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10:22:46 <esolangs> [] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106036&oldid=106007 * Xyzzy * (-216)
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10:29:41 <wib_jonas> https://www.bigmessowires.com/2022/12/15/mysteries-of-macintosh-high-density-mfm-disks/ some impressive reverse engineering of badly documented low-level floppy disk drive hardware and disk driver details using a logic analyzer
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14:46:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:&brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106037 * Pro465 * (+84) Created page with "was it not having IO intentional? ~~~"
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15:09:31 <wib_jonas> apparently gitlab requires me to register an account to do a search among bug tickets in a project's bug tracker
15:10:45 <GregorR> That's annoying and yet somehow unsurprising.
15:13:07 <wib_jonas> jesus, just how many forms do I have to fill in to sign up for this site?
15:23:45 <wib_jonas> it gives me a mandatory form with something like "In what role you want to sign up to Gitlab" where the choices are all managerspeak job titles, and "Why are you signing up to Gitlab", none of which seem suitable either. I just want to report a fricking bug to a project, and search first whether there's already a bug ticket, darn you!
15:34:15 <GregorR> Yup, that sounds like Gitlab to me.
15:44:36 <wib_jonas> my boss asked everyone in the company that for company email we should use email signatures formatted to this weird overlong (10 lines) template that includes the company HQ site address (yes, you absolutely need that in every fricking email) and my job title in both Hungarian and English. my supervisor also told me to use that template. so I asked
15:44:36 <wib_jonas> him what my job title is but he refused to answer that.
15:44:49 <wib_jonas> not that that's relevant to gitlab because I am filing a bug report not for work
15:48:28 <GregorR> Pretty sure if your manager refuses to tell you a job title, that means you choose your own job title.
15:48:41 <GregorR> "King"? Too grandiose? "Duke"?
15:49:04 <fizzie> Chief Twit is popular, I hear.
15:50:01 <wib_jonas> GregorR: sure, but I want to know what to put in the email signature specifically.
15:50:12 <wib_jonas> and now, I don't want one that implies royalty or nobility
15:50:51 <fizzie> I have a role and a job level and other things along those lines, but I'm not sure if I have a job title.
15:51:17 <wib_jonas> I'm not even sure I'd be allowed. Hungary banned the use of nobility titles during the soviet rule, though I'm not sure if they're still banned or not.
15:52:30 <wib_jonas> the CEO who asked this has "okl. villamosmérnök / Electrical Engineer (MSc)" as his job title
15:53:00 <fizzie> Apparently I have an (editable) "Business Title" shown in the company intranet, and a (non-editable) "Job Profile" which is automatically derived from the other stuff and gets written on official papers like the "prove you're employed" letter you can request and suchlike.
15:53:23 <wib_jonas> I don't know if this is a job level or job title or role or what the difference is between those
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15:57:19 <wib_jonas> there's an in-company phonebook on the network, maintained with a large delay by the CEO, which contains the name of most employees, their email address, the phone number for their company-provided phone if they have one, and sometimes their private mobile phone number if they use it for work. that table also have a job title, but the whole table s
15:57:19 <wib_jonas> badly maintained so I don't trustu it, and it's not clear if it's the same job title as the one I should put in this email template anyway
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16:13:39 <esolangs> [[User:TheEyeOfAr3s]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106038&oldid=98248 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+529)
16:25:46 <esolangs> [[RESOI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106039 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+574) Created page with "[https://github.com/The-Eye-of-Ar3s/RESOI RESOI] is a [https://www.rust-lang.org Rust] based application designed to be shipped in a single binary and be able to run a variety of Esolangs. == Usage == Usage: resoi --file <file> --lang <lang> Flags: -h, --he
16:27:10 <esolangs> [[User:TheEyeOfAr3s]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106040&oldid=106038 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (-423)
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18:57:13 <zzo38> I had never tried to register for Gitlab so I did not know it ask such question like that. So, I do not know what are the choices in the form, either.
19:05:02 <sknebel> gitlab has gone full "we need to sell stuff"-mode
19:06:17 <sknebel> and gitlab.com has clearly failed to meaningfully challenge github.com in the open-source/free department, and post-MS-aquisition trying to compete with latter means competing with essentially infinite money for freebies...
19:12:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Joaozin003 * uploaded "[[File:Multidodecoordinates diagram.png]]": A diagram I made for my Multidodecagony language.
19:12:48 <zzo38> Fortunately it seems to me that the damage that Microsoft had made to GitHub isn't too much (yet)
19:16:18 <esolangs> [[Multidodecagony]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106042 * Joaozin003 * (+4758) Created page with "Multidodecagony is a language made by [[User:Joaozin003|Joaozin003]] inspired by [[Hexagony]], which is laid out in dodecahedrons. Ugh! == Etymology == This language's name was derived from Hexagony: multi means multiple, dodeca means dodecahedrons, agony j
19:16:58 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106043&oldid=106030 * Joaozin003 * (+22)
19:21:02 <zzo38> Do you know how to make on GitHub so that the search for issues/pull-requests with "involves:zzo38 sort:updated" will include "user:zzo38" as well, in the same list?
19:22:15 <zzo38> Now I have set up a mirror of the Free Hero Mesh project on GitHub (git is rather confusing, so it took about a day to set it up). Someone might add issues there, although unlike using the NNTP or IRC, you will require a GitHub account to use the issues in GitHub (although fortunately you can read them without an account, unlike Gitlab)
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19:48:10 <GregorR> Microsoft couldn't do more damage to GitHub than git's general terribleness does ;)
19:52:13 <zzo38> Yes, git is rather confusing like I said, which is why I use fossil for my own projects. Nevertheless, I did manage to set up a git mirror too.
19:53:33 <zzo38> (One problem was that the output "fossil export" was wrong, that it had the wrong email address and I could not figure out how to configure fossil to fix that, so I used sed instead to change them to the email address that GitHub expects to be mentioned.)
20:24:48 <esolangs> [[OOOOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106044&oldid=68170 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Stub
20:40:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: I would have thought that although git is confusing, it's confusing exactly the way that you zzo38 like, so it would conufse you less than most people
20:41:15 <b_jonas> I mean your farbfeld utilities has command-line utilties with rather tricky syntax for how to invoke them, which is just what git does
20:42:01 <b_jonas> and you invent that command-line syntax, you don't just cope with it
20:44:41 <esolangs> [[RESOI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106045&oldid=106039 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+66) /* Supported Languages */
20:46:31 <esolangs> [[RESOI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106046&oldid=106045 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+168)
20:46:43 <esolangs> [[RESOI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106047&oldid=106046 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (-4) /* Usage */
20:57:28 <zzo38> Well, it did seem to confuse me less than most people, although the documentation does not seem to be all in one place easily to be found. The file formats also seem to be strange. With fossil, I was easily able to find all of the documentation for the file formats and protocols, and they are well documented (there were some problems with it that I reported and got corrected, e.g. it did not previously mention that it uses nonstandard b
20:59:31 <zzo38> Still, it did not take me that long to set it up. The git init documentation does not mention what is a "bare repository", but says that it can be used. I found out that it is what I needed though, so I did set up a bare repository. When asking for the password, entering the password did not work but I figured out that what is needed at that prompt is not the password but rather is the access token.
21:11:34 <zzo38> The format for blob files is easily enough, but the format for tree files and commit files is different, and the documentation does not seem to make it clear enough where to find these documents that describe these formats, as well as the other files (e.g. HEAD). I found the HEAD file it created said "ref: refs/heads/master", but I changed "master" to "trunk" and that does not seem to have cause any problems.
21:14:15 <zzo38> The documentation says that HEAD is "Your working tree is normally derived from the state of the tree referred to by HEAD. HEAD is a reference to one of the heads in your repository, except when using a detached HEAD, in which case it directly references an arbitrary commit." However, there is no working tree, so I am not sure what it is.
21:20:37 <zzo38> One thing that I cannot figure out how to do is how to make "git check-attr" to work independently of a repository, for only checking that a specified .gitattributes file is correct.
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21:51:43 <b_jonas> aren't all the docs for git in man pages that are installed if you install git on linux?
21:52:22 <b_jonas> to be clear, I also don't much like git for multiple reasons
21:53:02 <b_jonas> git is good for its original purpose, which is for kernel devs to handle the kernel source tree, but git is overused for lots of things as a general vcs that it's very unsuitable for
21:53:26 <zzo38> Yes they are, although some parts of the documentation are hard to find.
21:55:56 <zzo38> And, I also dislike git for multiple reasons. Maybe you are right about its original purpose, though.
21:57:50 <b_jonas> the three main things that I don't like about git are the following. (1) It embraces history rewriting, anyone can submit commits in anyone else's name and with any date and any history. (2) The tools don't support partial clone well, as in, cloning only some subdirectories or only the later revisions. Afaik this one is fixable, the network protocol does support this, so they could fix it in future
21:57:56 <b_jonas> versions of git, but that doesn't help me. (3) It fails when the repo has objects with identical SHA-1 checksum. Because of that, you can't use it to store files whose content you cant't completely trust.
21:58:54 <b_jonas> none of these three is a problem for developing the linux kernel source tree
21:59:24 <zzo38> I agree with you about those things, although (3) is a problem with fossil as well as git (although with fossil you can use hard SHA-1 or SHA3-256, to try to mitigate the problem).
21:59:33 <b_jonas> and yes, I know that none of the other vcses are perfect
22:00:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: if you can use SHA3-256 that's good enough. git has some experimental support for a better hash function, but it's still experimental even though this is a known issue for years so again that doesn't help me
22:01:05 <zzo38> About partial clones, this should be possible in fossil as well as git, although again it is not implemented. Actually in fossil it should be easy enough to make it work, although the xfer protocol will send deltas, so you will still need the originals to download them; if you download the undeltaed data then it is easier to do though (e.g. using the raw protocol, although it only supports one file at a time)
22:01:14 <b_jonas> I mean as long as fossil can change the hash function again in the future when SHA3 is broken
22:03:27 <b_jonas> as for git has arcane command-line syntax, the worst of this one is fixed because they added a new git switch command, so you no longer have to switch your checkout to a different branch or commit with git checkout. I actually had to rename my alias because of that, because it was also called git switch.
22:04:44 <b_jonas> the rest of the arcane syntax you can also fix with a bunch of command aliases to add options that you use often. I have six more of these in my per-user git config
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22:49:20 <zzo38> In fossil you can have multiple hash algorithms in the same repository, so you do not need to rewrite everything if you change the hash algorithm. Both git and fossil use a blockchain which makes it necessary to do this if it is not possible to use multiple hash algorithms at the same time; fortunately in fossil you don't need go, but in git it is necessary, I think.
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23:22:11 <JAA> b_jonas: (1) Agreed on the rewriting part, but submitting commits in another's name is something you can't prevent in a DVCS in general; it's something that only a shared hub repository can block (which is possible e.g. by requiring GPG signatures matching the account that pushes commits). (2) is mostly a thing already; `git clone` has `--single-branch` and `--depth` options. Path filtering I'm unsure
23:22:17 <JAA> about though. (3) Agreed.
23:24:46 <zzo38> Fortunately fossil does allow to include GPG signatures to be included on each commit (PGP clearsigning).
23:29:30 <esolangs> [[*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106048&oldid=105899 * Earthrulerr * (-23) /* C++ */
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