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02:14:11 <zzo38> My opinion of the "disguise" in Magic: the Gathering is I would have made a bit differently: [1] Make "superward {2}" instead of "ward {2}" (superward is a nonstandard variant of ward). [2] If you cast a spell with disguise, you can declare it as morph or disguise; if you declare it as morph then it doesn't have "superward {2}" but now opponent's doesn't know whether it has morph or disguise.
02:17:58 <zzo38> Also, the release notes don't mention if a permanent other than a Case can be solved or if a permanent other than a creature can be suspected. I think this should be possible, although the abilities gained by being suspected are not meaningful for a non-creature permanent unless that permanent later becomes a creature (e.g. in case it is a Vehicle).
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02:19:54 <zzo38> Also, I think that the previous rule that casting a suspended card is mandatory, is better than being optional, in my opinion.
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02:53:37 <ais523> zzo38: I'm not sure why superward would need to exist separately from ward, but I agree that not being able to morph a disguise creature is a bit silly
02:54:18 <ais523> perhaps the best solution would be to give the old morphs ward 2 too, it would be unlikely to break them, but Wizards don't normally like to errata to that extent (Companion is a bit of a special case there)
02:56:13 <ais523> also, the release notes fail to mention megamorph; perhaps they forgot about it
02:56:50 <ais523> I assume that having megamorph is equivalent to having morph, + an ability "as this card is turned face up, put a +1/+1 counter on it", but they don't actually explain that
02:57:59 <ais523> fwiw, my reading of the rules is that a permanent can't become solved unless it's a case, but once it is solved, it remains solved even if it becomes a non-case
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04:29:18 <b_jonas> they did errata a bunch of cards for the 2010 rules changes, and even more got changes implicitly from the comp. rules changes. the most obvious was that if you have a creature like Mogg Fanatic or Benevolent Bodyguard then you can't deal damage in combat but also use its sac ability even if it would die from combat. this one was so important that it's the only place where the comp. rules explicitly
04:29:24 <b_jonas> says "This is a change from previous rules."
04:30:40 <b_jonas> but around the same time, the text of some cards got changed too, such as for cards with reach like Giant Spider
04:34:43 <b_jonas> there must be a white card like that that is more well-known than Benevolent Bodyguard by the way.
04:37:41 <b_jonas> I guess I'll go with non-white ones: Carrion Feeder and Wild Cantor
04:40:41 <b_jonas> that phrase "This is a change from previous rules." is still in the comp. rules 13 years later by the way
04:58:33 <esolangs> [[TripletNOR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122418&oldid=122397 * ZCX islptng * (-31)
05:20:21 <b_jonas> ais has been following Magic for long enough that he must remember the 2010 rules changes
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07:28:36 <Sgeo> According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_nines_in_pi , Feynman may not have made the joke about that point. I am now unreasonably disappointed in the author of Cadaeic Cadenza for repeating the claim that it was Feynman
07:28:59 <Sgeo> (Ok, so not seriously disappointed. But I'm pretty sure that's where I first heard of it)
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07:40:11 <Sgeo> I'm a Cadaeic! I'm a real Cadaeic!
07:40:32 <Sgeo> (Those exclamations have inexplicably stayed in my brain for years)
08:35:27 <esolangs> [[Scratcholang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122419&oldid=120901 * PikaboyPlaysGames * (-72) /* Truth machine program */
08:36:17 <esolangs> [[Scratcholang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122420&oldid=122419 * PikaboyPlaysGames * (-54) /* Language Overview */
08:37:42 <esolangs> [[Scratcholang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122421&oldid=122420 * PikaboyPlaysGames * (+54) /* Language Overview */
08:51:16 <int-e> Sgeo: Attributing quotes to somebody famous instantly makes them more profound. - Mark Twain.
08:56:06 <int-e> Sgeo: This phenomenon will become so much worse with the wide-spread adaptation of LLMs. -- ChatGPT
08:57:37 <int-e> `"
08:57:40 <HackEso> 1/1:585) <Ngevd> Somehow I managed to read Haskell as Befunge \ 416) <Sgeo> My memory passed <monqy> rest in peace sgeos memory
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14:18:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AnotherUser05 * New user account
14:26:28 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122422&oldid=122405 * AnotherUser05 * (+133) /* Introductions */
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14:33:10 <esolangs> [[User:User:AnotherUser05]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=122423 * AnotherUser05 * (+62) Created page with "heya ==My Esolangs== * figuring out how to even make one lol"
14:33:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:User:AnotherUser05]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=122424 * AnotherUser05 * (+8) Created page with "==talk=="
14:35:01 <esolangs> [[User:AnotherUser05]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=122425 * AnotherUser05 * (+70) Created page with "heya!! ==my esolangs== * currently figuring out how to even make one"
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15:34:56 <esolangs> [[BrainTravel]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=122426 * AnotherUser05 * (+537) Created page with "'''BrainTravel''' is basically [[Brainfuck]] but with alternate dimensions and time travel. Don't ask. {| class="wikitable" |+ |- ! Command !! Description |- | + || Example |- | - || Example |- | > || Example |- | < || Example |- | [ || Example |- | ] || Exam
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16:16:09 <esolangs> [[BrainTravel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122427&oldid=122426 * AnotherUser05 * (+736)
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17:31:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lynndotpy * New user account
17:36:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122428&oldid=122422 * Lynndotpy * (+347) lynndotpy introducing themself in the wiki
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17:42:34 <esolangs> [[BrainTravel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122429&oldid=122427 * AnotherUser05 * (+644)
17:44:07 <esolangs> [[User:AnotherUser05]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122430&oldid=122425 * AnotherUser05 * (+48) /* my esolangs */
17:44:43 <esolangs> [[BrainTravel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122431&oldid=122429 * AnotherUser05 * (+7)
17:46:04 <esolangs> [[BrainTravel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122432&oldid=122431 * AnotherUser05 * (+653)
17:46:31 <esolangs> [[BrainTravel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122433&oldid=122432 * AnotherUser05 * (+18) /* Dimensions */
17:50:55 <esolangs> [[BrainTravel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122434&oldid=122433 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+29) Categories
17:51:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122435&oldid=122361 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+18) /* B */ add
17:52:08 <esolangs> [[BrainTravel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122436&oldid=122434 * AnotherUser05 * (+15)
18:04:04 <lynndotpy> Hi all! I have a question about the wiki that I don't think can be grokked through lurking moar. I've made an esolang, is it appropriate and welcome within the community for me to just appear out of the blue and make a wiki page for it? Or would that be too presumptuous about the significance and esoteric-ness of my language?
18:05:46 <ais523> lynndotpy: it's fine to just make a page out of nowhere
18:06:29 <b_jonas> lynndotpy: yes, you can just appear out of nowhere and add a page about the esolang onto the esowiki. the esowiki has lots of articles about non-significant languages. there's a mandatory spam filter step that the wiki ensures before you can add a page, but that's it.
18:06:40 <ais523> no matter how bad it is, it is unlikely to compete with some of the existing pages for the worst language ever
18:07:24 <ais523> the wiki was founded partly as a reaction to information about esolangs being deleted beause it was considered too unimportant/insignificant, so from day 1 the wiki has intentionally not had quality/importance standards for the articles, as long as they're ontopic
18:07:37 <ais523> and this has lead to a lot of terrible pages but also a lot of good ones
18:08:40 <b_jonas> I should at some point try to count how many times users have independently invented brainfuck but with just one command that serves as either left bracket or right bracket with no explanation of how you're supposed to use them for useful control flow.
18:09:26 <ais523> b_jonas: hmm, is BF TC with just right bracket (implying left brackets at the start of the program)?
18:10:21 <ais523> actually that language is close enough to brainpocalypse (not quite identical) that it almost certainly is
18:10:55 <b_jonas> ais523: you'll have to figure out something for initialization, because bf usually starts with all zeros on the tape so that would just skip any loop immediately
18:11:12 <ais523> b_jonas: program execution starts after the opening square brackets
18:11:28 <lynndotpy> I appreciate the context! I'll try to make my page good but I won't worry then about not being significant. (It's also not a brainfuck derivative!)
18:15:12 <b_jonas> I don't know. oerjan might now.
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19:04:42 <ais523> b_jonas: oh right, the "BF but brackets don't nest" languages probably come about as a consequence of people trying to write interpreters – getting the brackets to match correctly is the hardest part of interpreting BF
19:07:46 <b_jonas> ais523: do they? I thought they come about because more typical languages can be programmed without nested loops and that's what they're used to
19:08:51 <b_jonas> or it's like one step above all those languages posted that have no loops at all, like the deadfish variants
19:10:07 <b_jonas> but there seems to be some amount of variance
19:12:09 <ais523> hmm, I think most practical languages can't reasonably be programmed without nested control structures
19:12:23 <ais523> they're still TC, but the resulting code ends up doing things like simulating if statements with arithmetic
19:12:33 <ais523> so it's a hard-to-understand programming style
19:13:24 <b_jonas> ais523: well, it depends on how exactly the no nested loops work. if you can still nest conditionals into each other, but not loops, then it's not that bad. if you can't put a conditional inside a loop, which is more like brainfuck, then yes, that would be very unusable
19:14:38 <ais523> I guess it is easy for newer esoprogrammers to forget that [] isn't just BF's only while loop, it's also BF's only if statement
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20:02:34 <esolangs> [[User:AnotherUser05]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122437&oldid=122430 * AnotherUser05 * (+29)
20:13:41 <esolangs> [[User:AnotherUser05]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122438&oldid=122437 * AnotherUser05 * (+30)
20:25:51 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=122439 * AnotherUser05 * (+762) Created page with "'''''' (or '''circle''') is an esolang that only accepts the characters , , and . Created by [[User:AnotherUser05]]. {| class="wikitable" ! Command !! Description |- | <code></code> || Generates a random value between 0 to 255. |- | <code></code> || Increase a value by t
20:26:58 <esolangs> [[User:AnotherUser05]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122440&oldid=122438 * AnotherUser05 * (+10) /* my esolangs */
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20:53:12 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122441&oldid=112441 * DivergentClouds * (+119) added official impl and reference to bct proof
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20:58:12 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122442&oldid=122441 * DivergentClouds * (+38) fixed lack of text for a link
20:58:54 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122443&oldid=122442 * DivergentClouds * (+18) added file format suffix
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22:11:07 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Imakesi * New user account
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22:20:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122444&oldid=122428 * Imakesi * (+62) /* Introductions */
22:24:00 <esolangs> [[User:Imakesi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=122445 * Imakesi * (+36) Created page with "==Imakesi== me ==I makes i== not me"
22:27:29 <esolangs> [[User:Imakesi]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122446&oldid=122445 * Imakesi * (+90) /* Imakesi */
22:30:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=122447 * Imakesi * (+98) SemiScript, cool
22:30:28 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122448&oldid=122447 * Imakesi * (+8) /* SemiScript */
22:42:00 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122449&oldid=122448 * Imakesi * (+666)
22:42:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122450&oldid=122449 * Imakesi * (+6)
22:42:55 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122451&oldid=122450 * Imakesi * (+12)
22:43:20 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122452&oldid=122451 * Imakesi * (+3)
22:44:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122453&oldid=122452 * Imakesi * (+33)
22:45:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122454&oldid=122453 * Imakesi * (+48)
22:46:03 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122455&oldid=122439 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+133) Categories
22:47:03 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122456&oldid=122435 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+10) /* Non-alphabetic */ add
22:47:22 <esolangs> [[Esolang:SemiScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122457&oldid=122454 * Imakesi * (-81)
22:48:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * PythonshellDebugwindow * moved [[Esolang:SemiScript]] to [[SemiScript]]: Move to main namespace
22:51:22 <esolangs> [[SemiScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122460&oldid=122458 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category
22:52:32 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122461&oldid=122456 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+17) /* S */ add
23:45:13 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122462&oldid=122404 * Imakesi * (+47) /* Play Area (Don't clear after use!) */
23:47:06 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122463&oldid=122462 * Imakesi * (+471) /* */
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23:50:57 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122464&oldid=122463 * Imakesi * (+148)
23:52:13 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122465&oldid=122464 * Imakesi * (+45)
23:52:54 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122466&oldid=122465 * Imakesi * (+34)
23:54:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122467&oldid=122466 * Imakesi * (+49)
23:56:42 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=122468&oldid=121334 * Imakesi * (+118)
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